Sonic the real Ultimate Life Form?

[Badnik Zero]

I wanna say I think Chaos Control is the stupidest thing to come out of SA2. It's such a poorly defined ability, and characters sound silly announcing their "Chaos Control!" like it's some kind of sentai show. Like DogTagz says it's both overpowered and overused (nice list), and for me it's associated with Heroes-ShtH-06 and the era of suck.

Anyways, I can't agree with those saying Shadow's comment was a compliment to Sonic. Sure he was impressed with Sonic, but he wouldn't give over his "title" for nothing. Remember the line before "I'm just a guy who loves adventure"? Shadow was telling Sonic he wasn't an ordinary hedgehog, he wanted to know what he was. Shadow's perplexed to how someone other than him could use chaos energies. That's a genuine plot point. I believe it was there to make us consider that maybe Sonic really is the perfect lifeform. In the scope of the series he's certainly proven himself, at least if you write off his invulnerability as the main character. I'd also like to point out that the use of "ultimate lifeform" might have changed over time, and at the point of SA2 could have meant someone that uses chaos powers, before aliens and time demons or whatever. Anyways, I like my fanfic idea and think it's an easy conclusion to draw from what Sega left us. Maybe it was a direction they decided not to take with SA2 in the end. Shadow being a hedgehog wouldn't seem so coincidental if it was deliberately tied to Sonic's origin. I feel as if Sonic's multiplatform debut disrupted the franchise for a while, maybe the plot was even put on hold.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Ezra the Badnik

[Diogenes]

Anyways, I can't agree with those saying Shadow's comment was a compliment to Sonic. Sure he was impressed with Sonic, but he wouldn't give over his "title" for nothing.

Going head to head with the one person who can match and even exceed your abilities, then having your entire worldview turned upside down so now you're both on the same side is hardly "nothing".

I don't necessarily disagree that Sonic is more than a normal hedgehog; obviously he's got the super speed and can use the emeralds, and I'm a strong supporter of the "HPZ mural inspired Gerald" theory, but I don't believe that Shadow had any particular insight. Plus, the FinalHazard line is just one half of a pair of quotes; if you're in the same situation that causes that quote, but playing as Shadow instead, Sonic compliments him:

Shadow, I understand. You're unstoppable. Let's destroy this creature now! Everyone is waiting for us back on Earth!

I think they're both just meant to show the mutual respect they had for each other's strength, not to hint at any deep mystery.

[Teoleulbogo]

Hmmm...Thats an interesting idea, but I guess if Sonic is the ultimate life form he either doesn't know,or doesn't care.Personaly I think that sonic and shadow are evenly matched,and trying to figure out witch is better will only lead to pointless debate.

Edited September 24, 2009 by metal madness

[Badnik Zero]

Going head to head with the one person who can match and even exceed your abilities, then having your entire worldview turned upside down so now you're both on the same side is hardly "nothing".

But those were almost his last words. It means more to the story if he meant what he said, instead of just "Hey Sonic, I think you're a good guy, but I have to go die in the atmosphere now". If he said it, it means something.

Plus, the FinalHazard line is just one half of a pair of quotes; if you're in the same situation that causes that quote, but playing as Shadow instead, Sonic compliments him.

Ah, I think I've only gotten Shadow's quote. Don't think it changes things though. Sonic along with Shadow and the Biolizard use forms of Chaos Control, and that's what the ultimate life does. References are all over the game.

I guess if Sonic is the ultimate life form he either doesn't know,or doesn't care.

Yes! If Sonic found out he was the pinnacle of hedgehogkind he'd probably think nothing of it. He's just a guy who loves adventure! This is something that really separates Sonic and Shadow. Shadow dwells on this kind of stuff. For Sonic it wouldn't change a thing, he'd just keep on running. I don't think there's a necessary danger in attaching a label like this to Sonic, because he's Sonic the motherflippin' Hedgehog. And Metal Madness, big LOL at your sig.

[Diogenes]

But those were almost his last words. It means more to the story if he meant what he said, instead of just "Hey Sonic, I think you're a good guy, but I have to go die in the atmosphere now". If he said it, it means something.

It does mean something. One of the overarching themes of SA2 is rivalry; Sonic to Shadow, Knuckles to Rouge, Tails to Eggman. For the hedgehogs, their interactions are all about building up tension between them. Sonic being blamed for Shadow's actions, calling each other fakers, and Sonic learning Chaos Control, which may even surpass Shadow's ability. Then the Last Story upends things; Shadow turns good, they work together to save Earth, and their rivalry changes from enemies with similar skills to almost-friends who respect each other's abilities. It's no longer "you're the faker I'm the coolest", it's "ha, you're pretty good!". That, as well as the ending cutscene for the other two pairs, is a good way to end the rivalry bit, I think.

Ah, I think I've only gotten Shadow's quote. Don't think it changes things though. Sonic along with Shadow and the Biolizard use forms of Chaos Control, and that's what the ultimate life does. References are all over the game.

Eh. Chaos Control always seemed an odd bit in the context of Project Shadow/the ULF. The main goal was immortality, and I could see bringing the infinite power of the emeralds into it, but I don't see what warping spacetime has to do with that. And the list of people/things that could do it seems a bit long to use it as a decent criterion...there's no real unifying theme. Hedgehogs, aliens, machines (sentient and otherwise; Eggman made a machine that could do it in Advance 3, remember), there doesn't seem to be any common thread between them. And if we confine it just to SA2, we're working with a pretty small sample size...

[Badnik Zero]

^ I totally forgot about the rival theme, I guess it's right there in the gameplay. I need to play SA2 again.

For me the end of the game shifted away from that with the teamwork in the final chapter, but I think Project Shadow and the Gerald plot bomb dominates the story at that point. But yeah, the dialogue between Sonic and Shadow before their race is a better source for this than the Final Hazard quote. The line is mysterious on purpose.

Anyways, I'm unsure if this theory holds up post-SA2. Chaos Control and Ultimate Lifeform are messy terms.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Ezra the Badnik

[Legendary Emerald]

Your theory is false, admit it. I'd like to read a fanfiction about it though, because it would be pretty cool.

[Badnik Zero]

I didn't play SA2 until after ShtH released, so maybe I'm coming from a different place than some of you guys. Was there speculation about that line back when the game came out? The way I see it it's just a way to call Sonic some kind of superhero, since "ultimate lifeform" is ultimately vague, but the title's taken on almost mystical proportions since Shadow was resurrected. The fanfic takes some liberties with the idea in the Gerald area, but I think it's in the source. It's all Emerald mythology, and they stopped with that. We haven't seen Knuckles do that Emerald chant that Tikal does either, since then. All I know is the direction I would take if I were writer.

[Unholy Sonic]

He's a flippin' hedgehog okay!!

Anyway, yeah, even if Sonic was aware that he's naturally the ultimate life form, he woulnd give a ring about it and keep on his adventures.

In SA2, it began as:

Shadow: I'm the ultimate life form!!

Sonic: Faker!! I'll make you eat those words

To

Shadow: *a lil surprise* I see your no normal hedgehog... what are you exactly?

Sonic: *grins* Just a guy who loves adventure

In the beggining, Shadow was all "I'm the coolest and i'll prove it to you in a show down battle to see who's the best and the real hedgehog" to "I respect you for who you are, your capabilities and you might even be a good rival".

I don't really think that Shadow considers Sonic as the true ULF but more like... a special being...

Didn't find the right word for it yet...

But thats what I could think of for now.

---

As for the Chaos Control ability, Bio Lizard & Final Hazard are the same, final, and since it was the prototype form of Shadow so its no surprise that he can use Chaos control.

As for Silver and Blaze, that, I question myself as how they can distort time & space.... Silver might be using the Chaos Control but Blaze...

Metal Sonic can use Chao Control!?

Solaris can't use chaos control... I think but he has the ability to have control over time & space at will.

The only thing I can think of now is that Chaos control can be used by strong willed Hedgehogs or... those who got Black Doom's blood...

---

Game wise, Sonic got beaten by almost everyone but to be real, the only one's I could see Sonic loose to is Shadow or Knuckles.

On another note about Shadow... he was never really evil... he misunderstood Maria's last wish thats all.

[Sean]

Of course Sonic's the ultimate lifeform, he's the fucking Iblis Trigger.

[jutgf]

I'm fairly sure Knuckles and Tails could have used Chaos Control as well considering they can harness the chaos powers to turn into super forms, even though they haven't turned Super since the classics. And no shut up, that Sonic Heroes golden shield thing doesn't count. That was just developer laziness.

Big Shadow fan rebuttal coming through. I doubt Knuckles and Tails can use Chaos Control as good or as advance as Shadow can, Chaos Control has multiple uses, I doubt Knuckles and Tails can use the power of the abilty as good as Shadow, Sonic and Silver can because it's power seems to effect Hedgehogs with massive skills. Shadow is the only pioneer of chaos control who can take the abilty to it's fullest potential and make him original apart from the others since he is the Ultimate Chaos Power incarnate.

With that said "The Ultimate Lifeform" is nothing more than an ego-boost to Shadow as anyone can use Chaos Control if they just know how to harness the power of the Chaos Emeralds,

No Shadow's the Ultimate Lifeform because he's a composite force of unlimited power and potential that branches from different other sources with the same genetic implements he has. Black Doom was the first person who discovered Chaos Control so in a sense his son is the original source of the technique from genetic standards and everyone else is unable to tap in the true power of the chaos control technique. He was created from various sources so in logic he's the Ultimate Power because his power is molded from other ultimate powers.

which reduces Shadow to nothing more than a Sonic edit having to utilize airshoes in order to run fast and simply just uses Chaos Power as a means of combat as well, even though most other characters should also be able to do this.

This is stupid, Shadow in cannon was the first Hedgehog to be born. So Sonic's the Shadow edit by your logic, also Shadow has the attributes of Sonic and the power of the chaos energy flowing through his blood, he's unique in his class because he controls chaos as a skill and brings out the true power of anyone shown in this series. No one can surpass Shadow in Chaos Manipulation, because it's impossible for Sonic's friends to use abilties only Black Doom can use and sense Shadow was created from him, he can use them like no one else can. Sonic can just use the simple ablites like warping, he can't stop time, shift reality, or bring out raw energy in different attacks like Shadow can.

It's just to make him more "special", that and Sonic isn't really confined to combat and destruction, his trait is speed. Silver already has his own power which is telepathy.

Okay, Shadow is trait then is creation or power because he creates more attacks from his solitary abilty more than any other character, no Sonic's speed skills aren't creations, their variations of the same things.

"Ultimate Artificial Lifeform" would be more suitable since he has a perfect AI and pretty much acts on his own whim. So all in all, Sonic and Shadow are pretty much exacts in traits only they use them differently in order to categorize their behaviors.

False, Sonic has limits to his rival just like Shadow has limits. Sonic can't use Shadow's chaos powers because it's too complex for him and it would require him to learn how to mold chaos control to the spacial level and Shadow can't surpass Sonic in raw speed because his shoes have hlaf of the power to achieve Sonic's sound barrier speeds.

[Sega DogTagz]

As for the Chaos Control ability, Bio Lizard & Final Hazard are the same, final, and since it was the prototype form of Shadow so its no surprise that he can use Chaos control.

As for Silver and Blaze, that, I question myself as how they can distort time & space.... Silver might be using the Chaos Control but Blaze...

Metal Sonic can use Chao Control!?

Solaris can't use chaos control... I think but he has the ability to have control over time & space at will.

Mephie could arguably use Chaos Control and was possibly even more proficient with it than even Shadow (seeing as how he could time jump w/o a second user). Solaris is an emerald induced transformation, which gave the beast complete power over time and space. Sounds like Chaos Control to me. End of the World had spacial distortions that were very reminiscent of the ability as well.

Metal Head used C.C. after coping everyone/s data in Heroes. Metal Overlord could pull out the ability at will against Team Super.

Black Doom, Biolizard & Shadow all probably share a common bloodline, so they make sense. Silver even could be a descendant of Sonic or Shadow (like 300 generations down the line, the odds of being related to one of them might be pretty good).

As far as Chaos powers go, Blaze is the enigma here. Even if she was a parallel to Sonic, there is no reason why she should be able to wield anything outside of Sol energies. Then there is Eggman who can whip it out too... ugh.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Carbo]

Your points are weirdly structured but I'll try to respond to them anyway. I'm gonna respond numerically to this cause I'm too lazy to quote.

Big Shadow fan rebuttal coming through. I doubt Knuckles and Tails can use Chaos Control as good or as advance as Shadow can, Chaos Control has multiple uses, I doubt Knuckles and Tails can use the power of the abilty as good as Shadow, Sonic and Silver can because it's power seems to effect Hedgehogs with massive skills. Shadow is the only pioneer of chaos control who can take the abilty to it's fullest potential and make him original apart from the others since he is the Ultimate Chaos Power incarnate. (1)

No Shadow's the Ultimate Lifeform because he's a composite force of unlimited power and potential that branches from different other sources with the same genetic implements he has. Black Doom was the first person who discovered Chaos Control so in a sense his son is the original source of the technique from genetic standards and everyone else is unable to tap in the true power of the chaos control technique. He was created from various sources so in logic he's the Ultimate Power because his power is molded from other ultimate powers. (2)

This is stupid, Shadow in cannon was the first Hedgehog to be born. So Sonic's the Shadow edit by your logic, also Shadow has the attributes of Sonic and the power of the chaos energy flowing through his blood, he's unique in his class because he controls chaos as a skill and brings out the true power of anyone shown in this series. No one can surpass Shadow in Chaos Manipulation, because it's impossible for Sonic's friends to use abilties only Black Doom can use and sense Shadow was created from him, he can use them like no one else can. Sonic can just use the simple ablites like warping, he can't stop time, shift reality, or bring out raw energy in different attacks like Shadow can.(3)

Okay, Shadow is trait then is creation or power because he creates more attacks from his solitary abilty more than any other character, no Sonic's speed skills aren't creations, their variations of the same things.(4)

False, Sonic has limits to his rival just like Shadow has limits. Sonic can't use Shadow's chaos powers because it's too complex for him and it would require him to learn how to mold chaos control to the spacial level and Shadow can't surpass Sonic in raw speed because his shoes have hlaf of the power to achieve Sonic's sound barrier speeds.

Shadow in sense is the Ultimate because he's the result of combining multiple energies from the power of chaos emeralds and aliens with unstoppable powers. Sonic is the result of nature and mystic foreshadowing which puts him above everyone for his own sense of living life. If you compare the two, it's not that hard to think about. (5)

(1) In no way is it implied that Shadow has the ability to use Chaos Control better than any other person. All forms of power Shadow gains is solely from the Chaos Emeralds such as Chaos Spear and what not. My points weren't only raised by common sense but cause of how the characters are characterized. Shadow uses Chaos Energy as a means of attack to signify his more offensive/combat trait, Sonic is a Fragile Speedster at heart, etc. And if you so much as tell me that Sonic who can harness Chaos Power, turn into a Super Form and time travel using Chaos Control, can NOT use Chaos Power on the offensive side, I'll laugh hard. This also brings me to the post by Sega Dogtagz that I forgot to respond to as in "laziness" I mean't how they just didn't model new supers, just gave them golden shields. Knuckles' and Tails' powers increased tenfold and might as well just be concieved "super forms". Hedgehog-specific my ass, if Solaris and Biolizard uses it, it's in no way hedgehog specific. Metal Sonic also counts to that since I doubt any Chaos Power would pay attention to that regardless, it's a hedgehog robot.

(2) It was never implied that Black Doom discovered Chaos Control first and this is highly doubtful since the people who first inherited the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald (the Echidnas) were probably the first ones to ever know of the power it had. So much for an Ultimate Lifeform for that matter who got his ass handed to him by Sonic a bunch of times.

(3) There is nothing stupid of speaking in terms of the gameplay's evolution. I couldn't give a rats ass whether Shadow comes from before the universe was even born since that won't change the fact that he was created to just be another Sonic to make for a unique plot, but different in looks and personality since they share all the same traits. Shadow runs fast, although he needs the Air Shoes for it. Both can use Chaos Control and Chaos Power, both can turn Super, etc. By those terms Shadow might as well be immediately called for; as mentioned, "The Ultimate Artificial Lifeform" if anything because an "Ultimate Biological Lifeform" would have to apply to Sonic more-so than Shadow. Besides as Jake said, he's the Iblis Trigger so it's all marbles. Saying Black Doom is the only one being able to harness the Chaos Power fully is a lie because even then he needs the Chaos Emeralds to do anything as well, same goes for Shadow. They've never done anything using it which Sonic probably wouldn't be able to do. Sure takes alot of universal knowledge and traits just to make something which would eventually be done by mother earth and the natural selection. By the way, for a Shadow fan you seem to miss the fact that in Sonic Battle, Shadow was even faster than Sonic was which was the only time any sort of difference in speed has been shown.

(4) Makes no sense so no reply to that.

(5) In pretty much every medium shown, Shadow and Sonic's speed have constantly been identical, at one point even having Shadow be faster than Sonic while not using Chaos Control. If Sonic managed to learn how to use Chaos Control in 10 seconds and turning Super in 2, who says he's not to be able to harness Chaos Energy as an attack? That's seems far more like an easier process to me than turn into an epic super form.

And in the end your post really boils down to prove my point since Shadow and Sonic are still nothing more than exacts sans look, behavior and usage of skill.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Frog-Tan

[jutgf]

Your points are weirdly structured but I'll try to respond to them anyway. I'm gonna respond numerically to this cause I'm too lazy to quote.

(1) In no way is it implied that Shadow has the ability to use Chaos Control better than any other person. All forms of power Shadow gains is solely from the Chaos Emeralds such as Chaos Spear and what not. My points weren't only raised by common sense but cause of how the characters are characterized.

I see you don't know your Shadow mythos, Shadow doesn't need to tap into the power of the chaos emeralds to use chaos control, he is chaos control, the chaos embodiment, the ultimate power, etc etc. Externally Sonic can't do any of Shadow's moves without a chaos emerald. Shadow can do chaos control without one and is capable of amping of the abilty to amzing levels. Ech profile state Shadow is the ultimate lifeform because of his abilty to use chaos control better than anyone. Thats cannon.

Shadow uses Chaos Energy as a means of attack to signify his more offensive/combat trait, Sonic is a Fragile Speedster at heart, etc.

Shadow uses chaos energy to his own whim because he was created to do so and is the only one who can do so without external help from one emerald. Sonic is born with the abilty to run fast and use chaos emeralds to increase his abilties.

And if you so much as tell me that Sonic who can harness Chaos Power, turn into a Super Form and time travel using Chaos Control, can NOT use Chaos Power on the offensive side, I'll laugh hard.

Dude, Sonic can't only tap into the basics of chaos control, he can't compose the true power of the power like Shadow because he's too limited to that effect.

This also brings me to the post by Sega Dogtagz that I forgot to respond to as in "laziness" I mean't how they just didn't model new supers, just gave them golden shields. Knuckles' and Tails' powers increased tenfold and might as well just be concieved "super forms". Hedgehog-specific my ass, if Solaris and Biolizard uses it, it's in no way hedgehog specific. Metal Sonic also counts to that since I doubt any Chaos Power would pay attention to that regardless, it's a hedgehog robot.

All this means is that anyone can use Chaos Control if they had emeralds, Shadow is a Chaos Emerald so he doesn't need one to perform the skill, it's his primamary power.

(2) It was never implied that Black Doom discovered Chaos Control first and this is highly doubtful since the people who first inherited the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald (the Echidnas) were probably the first ones to ever know of the power it had. So much for an Ultimate Lifeform for that matter who got his ass handed to him by Sonic a bunch of times.

Wrong, Choas Control was created in Adventure 2 with Shadow as the pioneer for the abilty, it was then at his game Black Doom can use the abilty because he invented it without using external soraces of power. Shadow's never gotten his ass kick cannonically, so don't even try.

(3) There is nothing stupid of speaking in terms of the gameplay's evolution. I couldn't give a rats ass whether Shadow comes from before the universe was even born since that won't change the fact that he was created to just be another Sonic to make for a unique plot, but different in looks and personality since they share all the same traits.

Gameplay history has nothing to do with story canon. Shadow is the Ultimate Lifeform because he rivals Sonic in speed and abilty and can harness the power of chaos naturally to the best way possible.

Shadow runs fast, although he needs the Air Shoes for it. Both can use Chaos Control and Chaos Power, both can turn Super, etc. By those terms Shadow might as well be immediately called for; as mentioned, "The Ultimate Artificial Lifeform" if anything because an "Ultimate Biological Lifeform" would have to apply to Sonic more-so than Shadow.

Wrong again, Shadow is only equal to Sonic in base skills, he's not better than him at his specialty and Sonic is not better than him at his specialty. Sonic has no skills in other fighting styles other than speed, his abilties are limtied to himself, his external power comes from well external power. Shadow on the other hand can use other skills and fighting styles and can use powers bestowed from the chaos emeralds or himself to the greatest extent. Sonic can't be the ultimate lifeform, he's to weak to use chaos powers without a chaos emerald.

Besides as Jake said, he's the Iblis Trigger so it's all marbles. Saying Black Doom is the only one being able to harness the Chaos Power fully is a lie because even then he needs the Chaos Emeralds to do anything as well, same goes for Shadow. They've never done anything using it which Sonic probably wouldn't be able to do. Sure takes alot of universal knowledge and traits just to make something which would eventually be done by mother earth and the natural selection. By the way, for a Shadow fan you seem to miss the fact that in Sonic Battle, Shadow was even faster than Sonic was which was the only time any sort of difference in speed has been shown.

Sonic Battle ain't cannon. Shadow can use chaos control without an emerald, he can make attacks without a emerald, he can literally teleport far distances without an emerald. The Choas Emeralds are just a battery to him. It's not like Sonic and everyone else is on his level of control, Sonic himself can't warp an entire arc by himself or basically pull a matrix without an emerald like Shadow can.

(4) Makes no sense so no reply to that.

Meh I tried.

(5) In pretty much every medium shown, Shadow and Sonic's speed have constantly been identical, at one point even having Shadow be faster than Sonic while not using Chaos Control. If Sonic managed to learn how to use Chaos Control in 10 seconds and turning Super in 2, who says he's not to be able to harness Chaos Energy as an attack? That's seems far more like an easier process to me than turn into an epic super form.

Your not getting my message, Sonic can't do Chaos Control without external power sources. Thats his limit. He can't use Chaos Spear or Roaming Choas because he's to limited as a character. It's beyond his control because speed and agilty is all he knows.

And in the end your post really boils down to prove my point since Shadow and Sonic are still nothing more than exacts sans look, behavior and usage of skill.

I think you just hate Shadow and can't stand him upstaging everyone in the series, it's okay. I understand.

[Carbo]

I see you don't know your Shadow mythos, Shadow doesn't need to tap into the power of the chaos emeralds to use chaos control, he is chaos control, the chaos embodiment, the ultimate power, etc etc. Externally Sonic can't do any of Shadow's moves without a chaos emerald. Shadow can do chaos control without one and is capable of amping of the abilty to amzing levels. Ech profile state Shadow is the ultimate lifeform because of his abilty to use chaos control better than anyone. Thats cannon. Shadow uses chaos energy to his own whim because he was created to do so and is the only one who can do so without external help from one emerald. Sonic is born with the abilty to run fast and use chaos emeralds to increase his abilties. Dude, Sonic can't only tap into the basics of chaos control, he can't compose the true power of the power like Shadow because he's too limited to that effect. All this means is that anyone can use Chaos Control if they had emeralds, Shadow is a Chaos Emerald so he doesn't need one to perform the skill, it's his primamary power.

Wrong, Choas Control was created in Adventure 2 with Shadow as the pioneer for the abilty, it was then at his game Black Doom can use the abilty because he invented it without using external soraces of power. Shadow's never gotten his ass kick cannonically, so don't even try.

Gameplay history has nothing to do with story canon. Shadow is the Ultimate Lifeform because he rivals Sonic in speed and abilty and can harness the power of chaos naturally to the best way possible. Wrong again, Shadow is only equal to Sonic in base skills, he's not better than him at his specialty and Sonic is not better than him at his specialty. Sonic has no skills in other fighting styles other than speed, his abilties are limtied to himself, his external power comes from well external power. Shadow on the other hand can use other skills and fighting styles and can use powers bestowed from the chaos emeralds or himself to the greatest extent. Sonic can't be the ultimate lifeform, he's to weak to use chaos powers without a chaos emerald. Sonic Battle ain't cannon. Shadow can use chaos control without an emerald, he can make attacks without a emerald, he can literally teleport far distances without an emerald. The Choas Emeralds are just a battery to him. It's not like Sonic and everyone else is on his level of control, Sonic himself can't warp an entire arc by himself or basically pull a matrix without an emerald like Shadow can.

Meh I tried.

Your not getting my message, Sonic can't do Chaos Control without external power sources. Thats his limit. He can't use Chaos Spear or Roaming Choas because he's to limited as a character. It's beyond his control because speed and agilty is all he knows.

I think you just hate Shadow and can't stand him upstaging everyone in the series, it's okay. I understand.

Actually, Shadow needs to absorb Chaos Energy if he is to use it, which he gets from the Chaos Emeralds. So what you said all in all in that post is really balls. In Shadow the Hedgehog you get your first Chaos Emerald in a matter of a few seconds, and it's cause of it that Shadow manages to unlock the Chaos Powers he uses in that game. When he was introduced that was practically what he did; use a Chaos Emerald to warp and whatever. He managed to save Rogue from the military base and warp them all the way out of space since she had three chaos emeralds at her disposal. I've yet to see, as you state, that Shadow can warp anything without using an emerald since at pretty much every point of the story when he uses any Chaos Power, he has a Chaos Emerald in hand. And yeah, Shadow has gotten his ass handed to him canonically in both SA2 (twice actually) and Heroes.

Shadow has no "specialty". He just uses Chaos Power and conventional weaponry to attest to his trait which is it. So technically Sonic is the higher of the ultimate life form in such case since everything from him is naturally born.

I doubt the creators or whatever of the Chaos Emeralds ever had in their mind that their emeralds would be discovered by some giant space flea from nowhere.

And I'm honestly indifferent to Shadow ever since Sonic 06 since that was his only canon story appearance that wasn't filled with angsty anti-hero gibberish, which I appreciate since it turned him more into a heroic sociopath.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Frog-Tan

[Blacklightning]

Actually, Shadow needs to absorb Chaos Energy if he is to use it, which he gets from the Chaos Emeralds. So what you said all in all in that post is really balls. In Shadow the Hedgehog you get your first Chaos Emerald in a matter of a few seconds, and it's cause of it that Shadow manages to unlock the Chaos Powers he uses in that game. When he was introduced that was practically what he did; use a Chaos Emerald to warp and whatever. He managed to save Rogue from the military base and warp them all the way out of space since she had three chaos emeralds at her disposal. I've yet to see, as you state, that Shadow can warp anything without using an emerald since at pretty much every point of the story when he uses any Chaos Power, he has a Chaos Emerald in hand. And yeah, Shadow has gotten his ass handed to him canonically in both SA2 (twice actually) and Heroes.

Sonic Battle. Shadow has both a midair ability which warps him a small distance forward, and a slower ground teleport that follows up with a Chaos Blast. Both are still usable even after he surrenders his Chaos Emerald.

Sonic '06. One of his Boost moves, Chaos Snap, allows him to warp quickly between multiple enemies, comboing each of them. It was extremely glitchy, granted, but it was there, and was the result of a buyable upgrade as opposed to Chaos Emerald exposure.

Chaos Emeralds only enhance Shadow's abilities anyway - he can still do the stuff without them, just not as over-the-top. I thought this was common knowledge by now.

[Diogenes]

Technically Shadow can and must use Chaos Control in the last level of ShtH, at which point Doom has taken all the emeralds. And though it's almost definitely not canon, I've heard it's possible to fill your dark gauge before you get the first emerald in Westopolis.

Aside from that, tho', this all sounds like insane Shadow fanboy bullshit. There's no real content, just a bunch of gushing over Shadow.

[Phos]

You have to keep in mind when contradictions occur that the contradiction might have been the result of the developer not having time to fix it.

Sonic '06. One of his Boost moves, Chaos Snap, allows him to warp quickly between multiple enemies, comboing each of them. It was extremely glitchy, granted, but it was there, and was the result of a buyable upgrade as opposed to Chaos Emerald exposure.

You get the juice you use to power Shadow's hulked out thing comes from Chaos Drives, which are essentially mini artificial emeralds, and that's on top of the questionable relationship Sonic 06 has with the rest of the franchise. Sonic 06 laid the discrepancies on thick.

[Ebby]

Of course Sonic's the ultimate lifeform, he's the fucking Iblis Trigger.

Point taken. And that solves it all.

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

Shadow also used Chaos Control in his intro in Sonic 06, with no Emerald. Can't get much more canon than a cutscene!

[SuperStingray]

You have to keep in mind when contradictions occur that the contradiction might have been the result of the developer not having time to fix it.

You get the juice you use to power Shadow's hulked out thing comes from Chaos Drives, which are essentially mini artificial emeralds, and that's on top of the questionable relationship Sonic 06 has with the rest of the franchise. Sonic 06 laid the discrepancies on thick.

It's not THAT questionable; they already existed in SA2 where its been proven possible to create artifical emeralds as well.

[Carbo]

Shadow also used Chaos Control in his intro in Sonic 06, with no Emerald. Can't get much more canon than a cutscene!

While obviously may sound pushing, I for some reason heavily doubt that what was used right there could be concieved as Chaos Control. Not cause it isn't implied but if he really used it without an emerald, it defeats the purpose of Shadow collecting them throughout the different games and using them, and if he really does have the ability to warp at free will, it completely destroys the purpose of having timed stages or whatever if by logic, Shadow can just warp out of there. I'd imagine that's just some GUN tech that threw him in there, or the developers fucked up and set themselves up for massive fridge logic.

I mean think about it, if not powered by some source of Chaos Energy, why didn't he just warp into Rogue and warp back out? Why in SA2 did he similarly, not warp himself directly back to the GUN base to save Rogue but instead go through the trouble of having running through an entire jungle on a 10 minute timer and then having to battle Sonic along the way? Whatever Shadow's portrayal with Chaos Energy is, it's fucked up. On one hand everything is entirely ambiguous developer contradiction but if he really can warp without an emerald, he's nothing but a broken mary-sue who's just too lazy to think by logic and use his special ability to solve problems faster.

It's either Chaos Drives/Artificial Emeralds or Chaos Emeralds that power him in whichever case, and the latter is the only one which doesn't deplete overtime as it has unlimited energy.

I repeat what I said earlier; Sonic could most certainly be able to use that exact Chaos power that Shadow does were he to power himself up with emeralds or artificial drives, but that's not how he rolls and it's not his style. He doesn't care for that. He just takes out all obstacles in his way with style and speed, and destruction isn't his thing. I know I'm gonna get a bunch of lolnotcanon for this but in Sonic X, Sonic used 2 Chaos Emeralds and powered himself up with both to blast the fuck out of Eggman's fortress. Just 2 Emeralds and the traits used by that were nigh similar to a Super Sonic.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Frog-Tan

[Chaos Member]

Well for those who don't know, at the end of Sonic Adventure 2/Battle during the final boss fight with Super Sonic and Super Shadow, before you finish off the biolizard make sure you are playing as Super Sonic then wait until your time is at about I believe 3:55 and Shadow should say "Sonic, I think I've discovered what the Ultimate Life Form is, it might be you!" Or you could just watch

to see for yourself.

So, let's say Sonic is the real Ultimate Life Form, however, even though Shadow speculates that Sonic may be the real Ultimate Life Form in this boss fight, we should also keep in mind that Shadow was originally supposed to die at the end of this game. When Shadow returns to life in Sonic Heroes, he claims once again that he is the Ultimate Life Form and completely forgets about his speculation of Sonic, and then, some games after Heroes claim Shadow to be even stronger than Sonic. So if Shadow were to remain dead at the end of SA2/B and not return, do you think that Sonic would be considered the Ultimate Life Form? And by the way, I don't mean to offend any Shadow fans by my idea if he were to remain dead, I'm a Shadow fan myself, however this idea has been on my mind for quite some time now and I just wanted to see what other Sonic fans think of this idea.

Sonic's untouchable spirit makes him the real Ultimate Life Form in my eyes. However, if Sonic is the real Ultimate Life Form, then what does that make Shadow, the hedgehog who today claims to be the Ultimate Life Form but has forgotten the speculation he made quite some time ago of possibly, the real Ultimate Life Form?

I have also seen that, so in my theory, Sonic is the Ultiment Life Form, so why do people still think Shadow's still the ultiment life form if he admitted it in SA2, and to what you said earlier about Shadow being stronger in other games, maybe Sonic just wasn't giving it his all.

[Unholy Sonic]

I have also seen that, so in my theory, Sonic is the Ultiment Life Form, so why do people still think Shadow's still the ultiment life form if he admitted it in SA2, and to what you said earlier about Shadow being stronger in other games, maybe Sonic just wasn't giving it his all.

No... no no...

Nononononononono!!!

Shadow never admitted that Sonic was the ULF nor did he try to say that in other words.

He clearly said:

So.. There is more to you then just looking like me.

What are you anyway?

Proof:

[Diogenes]

^ We're talking about an entirely different line. During the Finalhazard fight, under the right conditions, Shadow will say:

Hahaha, Sonic! I think I've discovered what the Ultimate Life Form is...it might be you!

While obviously may sound pushing, I for some reason heavily doubt that what was used right there could be concieved as Chaos Control. Not cause it isn't implied but if he really used it without an emerald, it defeats the purpose of Shadow collecting them throughout the different games and using them, and if he really does have the ability to warp at free will, it completely destroys the purpose of having timed stages or whatever if by logic, Shadow can just warp out of there.

Being able to use Chaos Control doesn't necessarily mean being able to use it constantly or at its fullest potential. The most likely answer is that Shadow generates a small amount of Chaos energy on his own, enough to use Chaos Control, but not nearly as much as with an emerald. Edited September 27, 2009 by Diogenes