Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

You literally picked the game that's generally considered controversial among the community for its depiction of the characters lol.

 

So clearly there's no definitive answer about this.

It's a main series game where Sonic is depicted as capable of introspection and vulnerability, it shows that Sega does allow Sonic to be that kind of character. Whether fans like it is an entirely separate matter.

[Wraith]

Even if you have a problem with the chosen example being Lost World(And you really shouldn't since it's still all approved by SOJ at the end of the day), there are other examples to be found all over the series, usually toward the end of...basically any Sonic game you can think of.
 

 

This is all vulnerability. The way Sonic expresses vulnerability is just different.

[Kuzu]

I'm not saying those aren't examples, I'm just amused by the chosen being one from a game that's generally considered NOT a good one lol.

 

In any case, this all feels hella subjective; not that we aren't allowed to argue different positions and opinions, but like someone said, every Sonic depiction  is valid. If people like movie!Sonic as a good depiction of the character (and trust me, they do) them that's that.

 

I don't even expect Sonic's character to shift to the more aloof, and subdued version from the games. Mostly because the aforementioned games from the above post are from a time when Sega really doesn't do characterization like that anymore, and because Movie!Sonic is still ultimately his own character.

[IWriteAlright]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Shadow eradicated Black Doom with the eclipse cannon at the first given opportunity. I don't understand why I've seen multiple people suggest that turning their relationship into a cutesy joke was okay.

That isn't what I want. I don't want it turned into a cutsey joke , quite the opposite. Are you familiar with the super hero Nova? Or the Avatar series. Nova is the last of centurions. Basically space cops, the marvel universes green lantern but less constructs and more blasting. Because of Nova and a couple others being the last of these people, they essentially get a gigantic power boost an access to the greater consciousness of centurions.  In avatar the last air bender this is aang and korras access to council from previous avatars. In the DC comics Braniacs have access to a greater mind. 

The black arms as I saw them in his game had this hivemind its how shadow was able to be controlled for period, I would like shadow to have instead of killing black doom outright to have inadvertently absorbed it all. And now he has mental speed dial on a race of conquerors from throughout the universe, I think this would be interesting for his character. I actually enjoy the alien bits of shadow's history and I would like it more if his alien genealogy came into play.Maybe he stole some of dooms powers too.  Maybe shadow is going through a change where he's learning these new powers but he is forced to seek council from a group of people who's only engaged with on an antagonistic level. So it forces shadow narrative to come to terms with where he's from and who he is without exactly ignoring it. But still allows him autonomy to be his own person. You could theoretically also use this as a means to expand the greater sonic universe if you wanted to. Have older black arms tell stories of triumph over planets from eons ago , maybe playing a role in the creation of some important facet of the sonic universe. Maybe there are older black arms who weren't evil and doom was motivated by greed. Maybe they themselves were running from some darkness hidden in the dark  ends of the universe that our heroes will one day have to face.

The idea came to me after seeing eclipse interact with his "wisps".

This is my intention sorry if I offended you or anything.

In regards to being " vulnerable"

I think this proves the point though. This clearly didn't resonate with people as much as the film did if they still have this opinion. It didn't work. It especially does not work now, where our protagonists in children series are emotional. Even the scene in sa2, he thinks about someone "dying" for a moment then makes it about himself. I don't know how you call that vulnerable. He thinks about something for a moment and then makes it about himself, that expression of vulnerability isn't working for audiences these days. Hence why the film version struck such a chord. He's a cute dork that feels bad sometimes and that's relatable.
Kids like characters telling them how they feel these days and I'm ok with with the franchise changing to facilitate that, because not only do I think its good on a narrative level. I just think its healthy in general.

[Kuzu]

Just because its what kids like doesn't mean I gotta like /old man. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

Do we have to keep repeating that the point being made isn't "this is better than the movie", much as I think it is, but "you said Sonic as shown in the games doesn't emote and introspect and thus the movie is inherently a better version, but here's multiple instances of games (and Sonic X) Sonic emoting and introspecting"? Or is it going to keep being ignored in favour of "you're just being an old man"?

 

EDIT: Like, this isn't an opinion. Someone said "this thing is better than that thing because that thing doesn't exist". The reply is multiple instances of "that thing DOES exist". If your reply to that is "you're just being an old nerd", I'd say you're being actively invested in ignoring what's actually being said. Please don't.

[Wraith]

30 minutes ago, IWriteAlright said:

I think this proves the point though. This clearly didn't resonate with people as much as the film did if they still have this opinion. It didn't work. It especially does not work now, where our protagonists in children series are emotional. Even the scene in sa2, he thinks about someone "dying" for a moment then makes it about himself. I don't know how you call that vulnerable. He thinks about something for a moment and then makes it about himself, that expression of vulnerability isn't working for audiences these days. Hence why the film version struck such a chord. He's a cute dork that feels bad sometimes and that's relatable.

He fakes bravado in front of Amy and then solemnly salutes Shadow once no one is around. That's not "making it about himself." That's Sonic trying to keep the mood light for his friends.

[Kuzu]

7 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

Do we have to keep repeating that the point being made isn't "this is better than the movie", much as I think it is, but "you said Sonic as shown in the games doesn't emote and introspect and thus the movie is inherently a better version, but here's multiple instances of games (and Sonic X) Sonic emoting and introspecting"? Or is it going to keep being ignored in favour of "you're just being an old man"?

 

EDIT: Like, this isn't an opinion. Someone said "this thing is better than that thing because that thing doesn't exist". The reply is multiple instances of "that thing DOES exist". If your reply to that is "you're just being an old nerd", I'd say you're being actively invested in ignoring what's actually being said. Please don't.

Note, my post wasn't directed to you or anyone; if anything, I was making fun of myself. 

 

I think the reason people don't really count those "moments" because they're few and far in-between, and the story doesn't really focus on them as a means of developing Sonic's character. They're afterthoughts basically. In fact, I would have never considered them if they weren't brought up to me. 

[Wraith]

11 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

 

 

I think the reason people don't really count those "moments" because they're few and far in-between, and the story doesn't really focus on them as a means of developing Sonic's character. They're afterthoughts basically. In fact, I would have never considered them if they weren't brought up to me. 

I can't even reason with the idea that the ending of a game is an afterthought, lmao.

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I can't even reason with the idea that the ending of a game is an afterthought, lmao.

Especially when there's cut dialogue from them trimming the interactions a bit.

[Kuzu]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I can't even reason with the idea that the ending of a game is an afterthought, lmao.

You know what I mean dude. It's one scene after an entire game of focusing on Shadow and a military organization versus a story about Sonic connecting with people. The focuses are entirely different. 

[SBR2]

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

Shadow eradicated Black Doom with the eclipse cannon at the first given opportunity. I don't understand why I've seen multiple people suggest that turning their relationship into a cutesy joke was okay.

Because some of us don't take this series all that seriously. 

As for the topic of Sonic being introspective I know it's popular to shit on Pontaff for makin gSonic "Lol Baldy McNosehair I don't take anything seriously" throughout the course of Lost World he's very clearly beating himself up over what he did and is clearly upset that he can't get in touch with Amy on the ground. 

[GentlemanX]

43 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

Do we have to keep repeating that the point being made isn't "this is better than the movie", much as I think it is, but "you said Sonic as shown in the games doesn't emote and introspect and thus the movie is inherently a better version, but here's multiple instances of games (and Sonic X) Sonic emoting and introspecting"? Or is it going to keep being ignored in favour of "you're just being an old man"?

 

EDIT: Like, this isn't an opinion. Someone said "this thing is better than that thing because that thing doesn't exist". The reply is multiple instances of "that thing DOES exist". If your reply to that is "you're just being an old nerd", I'd say you're being actively invested in ignoring what's actually being said. Please don't.

Except, that's not why this was brought up?

On 10/2/2021 at 1:19 PM, Mauro Fonseca said:

Sonic emoted just fine in Adventure, Adventure 2, X, Unleashed, Secret Rings, etc. Movie Sonic isn't "Finally, Sonic's allowed to emote!", it's Hollywood-esque "We have to flatten everything into the most digestible understood shape possible, and people only understand a character's emotions if the character is acting in this specific way that the thousand other movies we make already show characters emoting like". It's exactly the same kind of flattening of nuance that turns Tails into Jimmy Neutron (he's a kid and smart!) or Knuckles into a moron who can't read (he's strong and gullible thus stupid as a door!) except praised because a lot of the fanbase seems to feel they're consuming something more grown up if characters are openly going "I AM CRYING" and announcing their emotions for ease of understanding.

You specifically framed this as not just that SoJ depicts Sonic differently than Paramount Sonic, but that the way Paramount Sonic is depicted is inferior to SoJ depictions of Sonic. Just like how the Tails and Knuckles examples a few seconds later deride their depictions in the also Western developed Sonic Boom. And whether you think they are inferior to SoJ's depictions is whatever - I even agree with you in Boom's case and it's one of the reasons I don't gel with that series. But Boom has its fans just like Paramount Sonic has its fans and if they feel that way it's fine.

Regarding how Sonic emotes, I don't care how it's depicted if it's in a form I find good. Maybe he does outwardly display his emotions around other characters and they help to console him. Maybe he tries to hide those feelings as much as possible until he just can't. These are both some of my favorite moments from the franchise and the fact they show very different ways of depicting how Sonic emotes doesn't take away from why I like both of them.

[DabigRG]

Not sure how this tangent got started at this point, but since we're at it, how does everyone generally feel about Sonic in IDW?

 

EDIT: Of all the places this comic could've popped up 

 

 

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Not sure how this tangent got started at this point, but since we're at it, how does everyone generally feel about Sonic in IDW?

Same here, everything's gone completely off the rails and I have no idea what's going on in this thread anymore.

I really like Sonic in IDW. I don't know if I'd call it his best appearance but I feel like it fits regardless of if you like the Ryan, Jason, Roger, or Ben versions of Sonic. Sure, you could say he needs more attitude or whatever, but it's impossible to please both sides of that issue and he's still an enjoyable character that is still recognizable as Sonic. And regardless if he's fallen into the "Batman letting Joker live" issue or not, I like how he's actually putting more thought towards his enemies than just a snarky quip. He wanted Metal to turn like Omega and Gemerl did, and he hasn't forgotten that version of Eggman that helped instead of harmed. 

I could be wrong but I don't think there's ever been another version of Sonic that genuinely wanted to redeem Eggman (Kintobor doesn't really count).

[IWriteAlright]

9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Not sure how this tangent got started at this point, but since we're at it, how does everyone generally feel about Sonic in IDW?

 

EDIT: Of all the places this comic could've popped up 

 

 

This video is fantastic and shows in little over 10 minutes my issue with that plot point in its entirety, its just not a plot point for sonic the character to have. He does not have enough character depth for that choice, its something that didn't require explanation and doing so introduces a lot of thought or lack their of in regards to sonic actions. It creates a context that is undesirable, sonic looks like a privileged person with powers who can deal with Ivo at his leisure and it entertains him, whilst everyone who does not have super powers has to deal with ivo.  Sonic when he attempts to have this conversation with good guys avoids talking about the actual consequences or in the case of shadow , his opposition doesn't have an argument for something very easily arguable despite being a person who would definitely argue it. Ian Flynn admitting on the bumblekast that sonic's argument was bad and shadow's non response was bad , but more so an excuse to push the story forward. And this is just my opinion, but if your story requires all that to get going , maybe the story wasn't worth it. And as it has manifested in the last issue, it is a static redundant point, so it infact wasn't worth it.

But there's something else to this, something that makes me , uncomfortable. This video brings up something that I had not thought about and now that I am thinking about it may explain some things. While I do enjoy Flynn's work, I hope more diverse individuals in the future also get to write the book in future like Evan for example and put their own spin on things. I think that difference in perspective might help with plot points like these in future.

[CertifiedNobody]

16 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Not sure how this tangent got started at this point, but since we're at it, how does everyone generally feel about Sonic in IDW?

 

EDIT: Of all the places this comic could've popped up 

 

 

Ehhhhh I'm hesitant to check this out given that I haven't heard a lot of good things regarding Lily Orchard as a person or creator (the fact that her subscriber count is hidden doesn't inspire confidence either). Can someone give me a quick rundown of this?

[FlameStream]

An interesting video where I completely agree. Though I'm kinda happy the Sonic vs. Shadow on the Tinker/virus topic happened anyway, just to spark/bring into light this discussion that Sonic's (and anyone similar) way of thinking is flawed.

[DabigRG]

So I actually intended to use this for when I finished my Tierlist explanations from several days ago, but I'll go ahead and use it here.

21 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Not sure how this tangent got started at this point, but since we're at it, how does everyone generally feel about Sonic in IDW?

 

EDIT: Of all the places this comic could've popped up 

 

 

Quote

Sonic C As the eponymous protagonist, Sonic generally does alright when he's doing the snarky adventure hero thing, even good. However, there is one contentious aspect of the guy that has often endured throughout the comic: his stance on handling villains. At first, this made perfect sense within his established character given the circumstance that it came up in: Sonic is very much about having the freedom to live life the way you want to, with Eggman being his archenemy for generally enforcing the opposite of that and Mr. Tinker being a chance for the doctor to experience that while ceasing to be a conscious threat. But as the book transitioned into it's second year, what started as an in-character decision with a lot built around it somehow became a somewhat exaggerated character trait that has sorta plagued the book ever since. Especially since while he's not exactly for the death penalty, Sonic has never really shied away from dealing with villains who are dangerous or evil enough--heck, the very first game has the option to knock Eggman himself into a pit as he attempts to escape. He doesn't mind too much if they survive to provide another adventure and will generally consider the day when he sees them give up, but the idea that compassion however misguided is an overt trait of his is an exaggeration.

 

20 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

. Sure, you could say he needs more attitude or whatever, but it's impossible to please both sides of that issue and he's still an enjoyable character that is still recognizable as Sonic. 

Otherwise, it likely wouldn't have seen print in the first place.

11 hours ago, IWriteAlright said:

This video is fantastic and shows in little over 10 minutes my issue with that plot point in its entirety, its just not a plot point for sonic the character to have. He does not have enough character depth for that choice, its something that didn't require explanation and doing so introduces a lot of thought or lack their of in regards to sonic actions. It creates a context that is undesirable, sonic looks like a privileged person with powers who can deal with Ivo at his leisure and it entertains him, whilst everyone who does not have super powers has to deal with ivo.  Sonic when he attempts to have this conversation with good guys avoids talking about the actual consequences or in the case of shadow , his opposition doesn't have an argument for something very easily arguable despite being a person who would definitely argue it. Ian Flynn admitting on the bumblekast that sonic's argument was bad and shadow's non response was bad , but more so an excuse to push the story forward. And this is just my opinion, but if your story requires all that to get going , maybe the story wasn't worth it. And as it has manifested in the last issue, it is a static redundant point, so it infact wasn't worth it.

But there's something else to this, something that makes me , uncomfortable. This video brings up something that I had not thought about and now that I am thinking about it may explain some things. While I do enjoy Flynn's work, I hope more diverse individuals in the future also get to write the book in future like Evan for example and put their own spin on things. I think that difference in perspective might help with plot points like these in future.

In other words, he wrote himself into a corner and ended up having to roll with it--lean into it-- when long term plans changed.

[IWriteAlright]

Several years ago, when adventure time started up a arc that involved princecess bubblegum turning into a kid for that arc to become undone not too long after. I was in school then, and just perplexed. My thought process was " Why didn't they finish the story, they started it why don't think finish" at the time I couldn't think where the story could have gone. But the act of them not finishing it felt like they had wasted my time. Years later after the series has ended and spin offs have begun and are in production, I appreciate  that. They essentially threw away an entire character to turn them solely into a self indulgent romantic interest for someone who clearly wasn't ready to be in a relationship. The entire dynamic of the show would have had to change to justify and facilitate that big of a change to the status quo making it more about this poorly thoughtout romance rather than , adventurous times ( and the dark history that facilitates them ). Not to mention all the great things that came out of the removal of that plot point like a canon lgbtq relationship.

There's a strength in knowing when to get rid of a plot point.

This isn't to say, this is good every time. There are plenty of stories in comic books I have read where someone drops a plot point only for it to go unused and the rest of the story isn't as interesting as that dropped plot point. And if i'm lucky someone else picks that up and does something interesting with it. You can't see the future.

I feel like Ian flynn is a too respectful of ideas that have come before and too stubborn about using plot points he has established. There is a strength in understanding something isn't going anywhere and doing something else. It isn't throwing away ideas , they can be used again at other times, but its recognizing what's beneficial

 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

1) This "Lily & Mikaila Orchard" Person
- I checked few of his (hers? ugh "theirs") videos and I have mixed opinions. Some are very good points, some make me grimace. Which is good. It's good to have conversation, to consider ideas you disagree with. Even if not everything they say I agree with, it looks like they put a lot of though into it and that's important. So yeah, I recommend, sorta. They a bit harsh and critical, so brace for that.
- Topic of this video is basically "killing tyrant is good, punching nazis is good, using violence against evil doesn't make you evil. But sadly many modern stories say otherwise".
- Mentioned trolley problem. Here's my correct answer to this dilemma in short 3 steps
 

Spoiler

1) There is no right answer. If someone was in this situation I wouldn't blame them for picking either way.

2) BUT I was in that position I wouldn't touch the lever. Because when you boil it down I just murdered completely innocent person to safe others. That person isn't a dictator or rich asshole or anything. So murder to prevent death is not okay. It's like killing someone, dragging him to hospital and transplanting hid kidneys to 2 people, just because 2>1.

3) But here's the tricky part: I choose 'justice' over 'net lives' when it comes to 4 vs 1 lives. What if there was 1 too 100 people? or 10 000? As the number grows my answer might change, but I don't know when. Ergo, look point 1).

2) Kill spare debate
Sigh, this got way too serious, but in the end it's Flynn's fault for pushing it for so long (unless he was ordered to).

My state on this is simple : murder should be LAST resort, but ALWAYS an option.
Last, because every life is precious. Because violence brings more violence. Because we should strive to be better. Because if it turns out you were wrong, you cannot undo it.
Option, because killing hundred bastards to save one innocent is worth it.

But this is fictional world with it's own rules. And we know for the fact that
1) Sonic will never ever kill Eggman.
2) And it's not like he tries and fails. He just doesn't want to.

My solution is to arm with Suspension of Disbelief and roll with it. Plus, my little headcanon is that Sonic always saves the day, so he doesn't have to kill. As long as no one dies, sparing Eggman is okay. Which I know, flooded Station Square and stuff,  but shush. Cartoon, talking animals, Suspension of Disbelief. As long as Sonic is willing to give his all and always stops him every time, he's in his right to spare him.

...and yes, I remember issue #14 when Amy clearly implies death. or you know, Whisper and her crew. That ruins my headcanon, at least in IDW.

But since Sonic can't even try to kill Eggman, it's best to just ignore it. We want Whisper and her sad backstory, but we want Sonic to throw jokes at Eggman, rather than attempting to decapitate him. So only logical option is to sing along with Elsa and Let It Go. Ignore it. Suspend Disbelief.

So yeah, Flynn shoot himself in a foot prolonging this discussion.

 

 

Side note, I hate that heroes always have to make this decision. Shouldn't government or democratic vote decide that? It's not Batman's job to kill Joker, president of USA should just give thumbs up and be done with it.
It's like actual people in power were faced with unpopular decision, so they to wash their hands and throw all blame and  responsibility on super heroes.... oh my god, this makes way too much sense.

[FlameStream]

The discussion seems to be ultimately about if you should be held accountable for lack of action (knowing you had the ability to do so) that resulted in bad event. And for me, the answer seems to be a clear yes.

[DabigRG]

It occurs to me that I never actually talked about that Issue. Not sure what to even say at this point, beyond shortening thoughts to why were those comparisons made if literally nothing was gonna be done with(more on this in a bit), the Chaotix vs Starline was unnecessary since Starline said he had no intention of harming Belle anyway, and they probably could've been more careful of plot holes.

 

On the first one though, since that is very much the topic of discussion, I realize that Sonic has become something of a problem character. Not as bad as Shadow, but I have generally seen certain parties who, like Lily(who likely inserted those panels because her new partner Mikayla is a Sonic fan and may even plan to address it herself), take that scene out of context and go to that conclusion.

And the reason I attribute both of those things is because that's not actually what the scene is: that scene actually works perfectly for Sonic(who doesn't like dealing with the Zeti, is confident about his freedom based lifestyle, and even enjoys fighting bad guys who just won't learn) and Zavok(who was raised to believe in revenge and  ruthlessness) as they are meant to be characterized. The kicker is that the plan was never even Sonic's call to begin with, but the comic ended up screwing up on what the story was actually about up till that point, making it about Sonic being compassionate instead of Tails coming through by invoking those previous contexts in the first place.

1 hour ago, IWriteAlright said:

Several years ago, when adventure time started up a arc that involved princecess bubblegum turning into a kid for that arc to become undone not too long after. I was in school then, and just perplexed. My thought process was " Why didn't they finish the story, they started it why don't think finish" at the time I couldn't think where the story could have gone. But the act of them not finishing it felt like they had wasted my time. Years later after the series has ended and spin offs have begun and are in production, I appreciate  that. They essentially threw away an entire character to turn them solely into a self indulgent romantic interest for someone who clearly wasn't ready to be in a relationship. The entire dynamic of the show would have had to change to justify and facilitate that big of a change to the status quo making it more about this poorly thoughtout romance rather than , adventurous times ( and the dark history that facilitates them ). Not to mention all the great things that came out of the removal of that plot point like a canon lgbtq relationship.

There's a strength in knowing when to get rid of a plot point.

This isn't to say, this is good every time. There are plenty of stories in comic books I have read where someone drops a plot point only for it to go unused and the rest of the story isn't as interesting as that dropped plot point. And if i'm lucky someone else picks that up and does something interesting with it. You can't see the future.

I feel like Ian flynn is a too respectful of ideas that have come before and too stubborn about using plot points he has established. There is a strength in understanding something isn't going anywhere and doing something else. It isn't throwing away ideas , they can be used again at other times, but its recognizing what's beneficial

 

 

The thing is, as I mentioned before, it kinda had to come up again even if plans were severely changes due to Iuzuka's involvement: the results of Eggman's Return was supposed to happen differently and it's very possible that it wouldn't have gotten to the level of a friggin goo zombie epidemic claiming so many. 

Really, the biggest problem is just how far he ended up leaning into when the original circumstances were far more reasonable and in line with his character--the arguments themselves were fine, but when Sonic goes from "If the world stays safe this way" to "We can't kill people who are unlikely to change for the better period," that's the hole really got dug.

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1) This "Lily & Mikaila Orchard" Person
- I checked few of his (hers? ugh "theirs") videos and I have mixed opinions. Some are very good points, some make me grimace. Which is good. It's good to have conversation, to consider ideas you disagree with. Even if not everything they say I agree with, it looks like they put a lot of though into it and that's important. So yeah, I recommend, sorta. They a bit harsh and critical, so brace for that.
- Topic of this video is basically "killing tyrant is good, punching nazis is good, using violence against evil doesn't make you evil. But sadly many modern stories say otherwise".
- Mentioned trolley problem. Here's my correct answer to this dilemma in short 3 steps
 

  Hide contents

1) There is no right answer. If someone was in this situation I wouldn't blame them for picking either way.

2) BUT I was in that position I wouldn't touch the lever. Because when you boil it down I just murdered completely innocent person to safe others. That person isn't a dictator or rich asshole or anything. So murder to prevent death is not okay. It's like killing someone, dragging him to hospital and transplanting hid kidneys to 2 people, just because 2>1.

3) But here's the tricky part: I choose 'justice' over 'net lives' when it comes to 4 vs 1 lives. What if there was 1 too 100 people? or 10 000? As the number grows my answer might change, but I don't know when. Ergo, look point 1).

2) Kill spare debate
Sigh, this got way too serious, but in the end it's Flynn's fault for pushing it for so long (unless he was ordered to).

My state on this is simple : murder should be LAST resort, but ALWAYS an option.
Last, because every life is precious. Because violence brings more violence. Because we should strive to be better. Because if it turns out you were wrong, you cannot undo it.
Option, because killing hundred bastards to save one innocent is worth it.

But this is fictional world with it's own rules. And we know for the fact that
1) Sonic will never ever kill Eggman.
2) And it's not like he tries and fails. He just doesn't want to.

My solution is to arm with Suspension of Disbelief and roll with it. Plus, my little headcanon is that Sonic always saves the day, so he doesn't have to kill. As long as no one dies, sparing Eggman is okay. Which I know, flooded Station Square and stuff,  but shush. Cartoon, talking animals, Suspension of Disbelief. As long as Sonic is willing to give his all and always stops him every time, he's in his right to spare him.

...and yes, I remember issue #14 when Amy clearly implies death. or you know, Whisper and her crew. That ruins my headcanon, at least in IDW.

But since Sonic can't even try to kill Eggman, it's best to just ignore it. We want Whisper and her sad backstory, but we want Sonic to throw jokes at Eggman, rather than attempting to decapitate him. So only logical option is to sing along with Elsa and Let It Go. Ignore it. Suspend Disbelief.

So yeah, Flynn shoot himself in a foot prolonging this discussion.

 

 

Side note, I hate that heroes always have to make this decision. Shouldn't government or democratic vote decide that? It's not Batman's job to kill Joker, president of USA should just give thumbs up and be done with it.
It's like actual people in power were faced with unpopular decision, so they to wash their hands and throw all blame and  responsibility on super heroes.... oh my god, this makes way too much sense.

The pronoun is she.

[CertifiedNobody]

32 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

It occurs to me that I never actually talked about that Issue. Not sure what to even say at this point, beyond shortening thoughts to why were those comparisons made if literally nothing was gonna be done with(more on this in a bit), the Chaotix vs Starline was unnecessary since Starline said he had no intention of harming Belle anyway, and they probably could've been more careful of plot holes.

That doesn't mean they want her being held prisoner or being experimented on by a known threat, and he was clearly hurting her emotionally so he could copy her mental data.

38 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

The thing is, as I mentioned before, it kinda had to come up again even if plans were severely changes due to Iuzuka's involvement: the results of Eggman's Return was supposed to happen differently and it's very possible that it wouldn't have gotten to the level of a friggin goo zombie epidemic claiming so many. 

Really, the biggest problem is just how far he ended up leaning into when the original circumstances were far more reasonable and in line with his character--the arguments themselves were fine, but when Sonic goes from "If the world stays safe this way" to "We can't kill people who are unlikely to change for the better period," that's the hole really got dug.

The Metal Virus makes it hard to not support an Eggman death penalty, but the fact that he was crucial in undoing the Virus and defeating the Deadly Six, as well as getting them the Warp Topaz, does at least lessen the overall impact. Plus, it's clear from the beginning that he never intended the world to become a decayed metal wasteland.

[DabigRG]

30 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

That doesn't mean they want her being held prisoner or being experimented on by a known threat, and he was clearly hurting her emotionally so he could copy her mental data.

Which he had procured by that point. I honestly thought Espio springing her was him at first.

Oh BTW, the tone of that scene got a little fuzzy at one or two points.

30 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

The Metal Virus makes it hard to not support an Eggman death penalty, but the fact that he was crucial in undoing the Virus and defeating the Deadly Six, as well as getting them the Warp Topaz, does at least lessen the overall impact. Plus, it's clear from the beginning that he never intended the world to become a decayed metal wasteland.

He was still gleefully pushing forward a glorified zombie apocalypse though, complete with Walking Dead style moments among Vector and Cream.