Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Probably because it's really not too difficult to at least box off in my mind.

Now that I agree with at least. However, I don't do it by trying to make sense of it. I just ignore it. 

Unless it's something that'll come up naturally and be essential to the plot of a game, there's no use paying it any mind as something that exists. I did say that when the news was hitting that this two worlds thing was coming out into the open. The future games will probably continue to not make any mention of it or treat it like it matters so in turn I do think a good experiment is to treat it as though it's still all one world. Not only is it less confusing but the games won't do much to fight you on it.

Most of what I was talking about was how it would affect the comic though. If it's going to be directly referred to in the comics than it's not going to be something they can box off. 

It'll take some re-working of specific concepts but it's probably doable. 

Mostly, I just wish it weren't a thing at all. 

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Okay. sure, why not?

I can't say I share that mentality though. Maybe if the foundation for this was stronger and it felt more ingrained within what we've been told and shown rather then something we all collectively just learned about in an interview, I'd be with you there. However, as is, this is beyond absurd.

[DabigRG]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Now that I agree with at least. However, I don't do it by trying to make sense of it. I just ignore it. 

Unless it's something that'll come up naturally and be essential to the plot of a game, there's no use paying it any mind as something that exists. I did say that when the news was hitting that this two worlds thing was coming out into the open. The future games will probably continue to not make any mention of it or treat it like it matters so in turn I do think a good experiment is to treat it as though it's still all one world. Not only is it less confusing but the games won't do much to fight you on it.

Most of what I was talking about was how it would affect the comic though. If it's going to be directly referred to in the comics than it's not going to be something they can box off. 

It'll take some re-working of specific concepts but it's probably doable. 

Mostly, I just wish it weren't a thing at all. 

I can't say I share that mentality though. Maybe if the foundation for this was stronger and it felt more ingrained within what we've been told and shown rather then something we all collectively just learned about in an interview, I'd be with you there. However, as is, this is beyond absurd.

I also think it's primarily a way for Forces to have the Resistance and citizens be Mobians without bringing in the obviously Human/Overlander GUN, the United Federation, or the Gaia Temple locales.

Multiple levels, buddy.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I also think it's primarily a way for Forces to have the Resistance and citizens by Mobians without bringing in GUN, the United Federation, or the Gaia Temple locales.

Multiple levels, buddy.

I can't think of a reason as to why they would need to do that. 

Personally, I'd have preferred they just tricked out GUN a little more. Made the humans more wacky looking. Give specific people their own gimmicks or even make it so the animal-people aren't the only ones with strange, random powers. Do more weird, cartoony shit with their technology, like the meme that is the GUN Truck. Add some animal-soldiers to mix with the human-soldiers (for the longest time we thought Shadow and Rouge might have been part of that) and let the "resistance" not really be a thing. Just do what Shadow the Hedgehog did and have Sonic's friends acting independently of the army. It was far more fun seeing them all spread out, doing their own thing, rather than huddled together in that one room.

And the Gaia temples were a neat little thing for the Chaos Emeralds to have. Little shrines for the emeralds while the Master Emerald was on the floating island altar. It wasn't entirely explained how they came to be but I was okay with that. Not every mystery needs a clear cut explanation, especially ancient ones.

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I can't think of a reason as to why they would need to do that. 

Personally, I'd have preferred they just tricked out GUN a little more. Made the humans more wacky looking. Give specific people their own gimmicks or even make it so the animal-people aren't the only ones with strange, random powers. Do more weird, cartoony shit with their technology, like the meme that is the GUN Truck. Add some animal-soldiers to mix with the human-soldiers (for the longest time we thought Shadow and Rouge might have been part of that) and let the "resistance" not really be a thing. Just do what Shadow the Hedgehog did and have Sonic's friends acting independently of the army. It was far more fun seeing them all spread out, doing their own thing, rather than huddled together in that one room.

And the Gaia temples were a neat little thing for the Chaos Emeralds to have. Little shrines for the emeralds while the Master Emerald was on the floating island altar. It wasn't entirely explained how they came to be but I was okay with that. Not every mystery needs a clear cut explanation, especially ancient ones.

Huh. I suppose that might've been interesting.

It could've helped push the idea that the GUN of today is not as corrupt as it once was and that goes double now that Shadow & Tower have patched things up. And even better, they'd be more inclusive and innovative: welcoming whatever help and tools will aid in protecting the world from villains like Eggman & Black Doom. That could mean cyborgs and genetically enhanced super soldiers would enter the series as an occasional thing. I mean, I'd personal keep Commander Tower & maybe a few others as an inbetween of Eggman and Elise for the sake of consistency & distinction, but yeah, that all sounds cool.

 

Of course, I'm sure we know a couple of reasons why Forces wasn't that way.

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Yes? Generally knowing what a character motivations are about allows you to follow and like that character, which is important considering they are deciding to focus issues around that character.

It isn't what the arc is about... its what allow characters to function. They have effectively done this with every single other character, even gemril... and not shadow. So it doesn't have to be what the narrative is about it sticks out like a sore thumb in a franchise primarly about characters. Its why this franchise exists , its why it still exists because it was able to sell itself even through the bad times...with characters. I can go down a list of when and how characterization was established for every character, in this book ...except for shadow. And shadow sticks out even more for people because he's kind of the character you need to do that with because its kind of his thing.

So yeah you kinda do need to know, or that character is generally taking up space. That's generally important when trying to write stories with large casts. You to establish why folks are there. or they are..just there.

What other reason beyond "There is a zombie apocalypse happening right now, maybe I should try and stop it" does a person need to know...

Why is that reasoning fine for every other character,  but Shadow needs some much deeper meaning to what he does in order to justify his existence? I don't get it, this feels less like an actual problem and more just wanting more context to something that doesn't need it. 

 

And before this drags on, because I know you're stubborn about this, I'm simply going to end it here. I don't find anything wrong with Shadow, but you do and I don't feel like having another 10 page debate about this for the upteenth time. 

[Shadowlax]

24 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

What other reason beyond "There is a zombie apocalypse happening right now, maybe I should try and stop it" does a person need to know...

 

Quote

Why is that reasoning fine for every other character,  but Shadow needs some much deeper meaning to what he does in order to justify his existence?

So here's the issue, they have those other reasons,  and they had those reasons before the apocolypse. And those reasons generally fuel how a character acts. Everyone is dealing with zombie Apocalypse. But who that character is and why they do what they do, informs how they act in that scenario. so yeah motivations matter. Do you actually need to know more. It informs how everyone is dealing with the situation. But shadow... has none , we don't know why he's fighting... he's just angry. You seem content with that, maybe you don't like him being a character? That's cool, just seems kinda weird to me.

But you want to be done so, I wont bother you about it anymore. just wanted to pick your brain, thanks for humoring me.

 

[StaticMania]

Honestly, a Zombie a-poc story like this doesn't really lend it self well to exploring the characters.

That's why Sonic has the whole corruption thing...but even then it's not really doing "much" for him.

What is Sonic's limit: is the only thing to really get out of that.

[Dr. Detective]

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

[DabigRG]

52 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Honestly, a Zombie a-poc story like this doesn't really lend it self well to exploring the characters.

That's why Sonic has the whole corruption thing...but even then it's not really doing "much" for him.

What is Sonic's limit: is the only thing to really get out of that.

Not unless you have the characters travel together and react differently to the choices/decisions they make in certain dilemmas, which they haven't really been doing aside from maybe Charmy going back for the girl Vector trapped and Gemerl/Omega being willing to outright destroy the Zombots.

[StaticMania]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

I was gonna mention the Chaotix's thing with Charmy, but I didn't think I worded it well enough.

They do benefit from this more than the others.

[DabigRG]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

Mm, I suppose.

Funnily enough, I remember being a little eh on that issue--I didn't dislike it, but I wasn't really into it. But as I said then, it was probably a combination of feeling the Chaotix hadn't really gotten much screentime at that point and having been self-defeatingly attached to TWDG for so long.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Mm, I suppose.

Funnily enough, I remember being a little eh on that issue--I didn't dislike it, but I wasn't really into it. But as I said then, it was probably a combination of feeling the Chaotix hadn't really gotten much screentime at that point and having been self-defeatingly attached to TWDG for so long.

I'm sorry for possibly sounding stupid but what is TWDG?

[StaticMania]

The Walking Dead Game.

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I'm sorry for possibly sounding stupid but what is TWDG?

The Walking Dead Game, by the formerly dead Telltale.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

The Walking Dead Game, by the formerly dead Telltale.

Okay. 

I don't feel stupid now because there was no way in hell I was gonna guess that.

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Okay. 

I don't feel stupid now because there was no way in hell I was gonna guess that.

No, you likely wouldn't.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Honestly, a Zombie a-poc story like this doesn't really lend it self well to exploring the characters.

 

Its kind of litterally what they are for, most apoc stories are about exploring who the characters in the apoc are unless you are watching the more old school ones where the hoard is sort of representative of a premise. Which isn't the case here, they are just... metal? You could probably do an interesting narrative where the robtization is Representative of say people wanting the characters to be mute and bland to fit what they think a franchise like sonic should be. And it genuinely would be interesting, but that isn't what that is.

 

 

[StaticMania]

Well...unfortunately this is doing a negative job at it.

The characters are all in a shelter while the readers are following Sonic, so we really only get to see what he sees at the moment.

We'll get the occasional break from his POV at times, but...at this time that's only been to characters not in a safe space.

It'll get better, or something.

[Sonic Fan J]

10 hours ago, DabigRG said:

 

For what it's worth, I thought your perspective was clear enough in the previous post. 

As for the mood, I think a pragmatic wax of getting that across without overly changing the scenes is to change their sequence:

1. Immediately after the rescue and escape, Omega, Tails, and Silver chat about the circumstances in the lab and nonetheless are positive that they'll be able to fix things.
2. Cream comes to escort Sonic to the Command Room, doing her best to keep the survivor's spirits up despite obviously being personally traumatized herself.
3. On the way, they run into Vector and Espio, who are simultaneously bitter about the losses and yet plan to head out in hopes of finding what's left of their little buddy. 
4. They get to the Command Center door blocked by Gemerl, who is still hostile to the threat Sonic poses but obliges to Amy's order on Cream's objection. 
5. Sonic meets Amy and the two try to have some casual talk after several days of saving lives, but this comes to an abrupt halt when she responds to her allies in the field with increasing distress. 
6. Sonic visibly wants to console her, but as the bleakness of the situation becomes hard to ignore, chooses leave quietly with the sadness on his face only being witnessed by the emotionless Gemerl. 
7. Finally,  the issue ends as Starline acknowledges the negligence of Dr. Eggman and sets his sights on a file about The Zeti of the Lost Hex. 

I realize this doesn't do much to address your concern,  but barring Sonic assuring Amy he'll do something before leaving, it does have the results of the situation go from optimistic to worse. 

It doesn't completely address my concern, but I do find the changed order helps build the growing despair which would have better prepared the audience to see even Amy is down in this mess. It still would have been a shock, but the building weariness before getting to her helps establish that yes, things are bad and everyone is worn down by it.

4 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

This is what I was getting at when I said this arc is an ensemble arc that focuses on many different characters, with obviously Sonic being at the center.

I think the problem here is making the second story arc after rushing through character introductions in the first an ensemble story was probably a bad decision. I mean, we have the good fortune of being Sonic fans so we all kind of have a vision of who these characters are. Could you imagine though, a brand new story with brand new characters going from a brief and rushed introductory arc to a characterless ensemble before giving you any history and expectations for the characters while then skipping showing their development and they just jump to different interpretations to fit the plot with barely even a handwaved explanation? I don't know about you but I would be awfully annoyed by that and unless there was a moment of genuine brilliance that made me willing to sit it out I'd drop the story like a hot potato.

What helps me stick with the IDW comics so far is my preconceived notions of who the characters are, which makes me yearn for more time exploring the characters before just doing an ensemble story. Heck, the most successful ensemble story of late had 20 or so stories before it which established the individual characters, chronicled their changes over time, highlighted how they interacted with each other, and did this all with fully fleshed out storylines before plucking down the ensemble endcap. I even still stand by the thought that the prior ensemble part before the end of the story is actually pretty weak without having the expectations and time spent with the characters in it built up. It's why I complain about the brevity of the IDW book and feel it needs to be a little bit denser. It sometime feels like sitting down for a full course meal and being served nothing but samples that just happen to flow together on your palette. It's good, but there isn't enough substance to make it satisfying.

2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

 The Chaotix issue was brilliant and easily one of my favorite issues of the IDW run. As I've said before, it really highlighted the characters and took you through an entire character arc showing how they reacted to the main plot and how it affected them. By the end of that issue it is understandable why these cheerful and kind of goofball detectives are dour and upset. You saw what they went through and how they were tested as well as eth outcome of those challenges, It was a brilliant issue and I wish it wasn't a one off really in how it highlighted the supporting cast versus the zombot threat. Funny thing is though, much as I enjoyed that issue, I remember a lot of people really didn't like and I've never really heard an explanation yet that clarified it for me so I might be in the same boat with that issue as you are with this one.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Well this is interesting:

 

[StaticMania]

Wow, those pants look incredibly negative.

[MetalSkulkBane]

This pajama is kinda half-assed. Not concept, but the arrangement.

For starters shirt has half of Blaze in the corner. There are very few Sonic characters, but Egg Dragoon deserve 3 panels, two next to each other (I don't even know what is panel below Tangle). And I can swallow each leg being identical, but pattern repeats 2,5 times. Don't tell me making it slightly longer would cost much, the art already exists and two identical images use same amount of paint (wool?) as two different panels.

 

On a different topic, any ideas what will we do in next arc?

Obviously it will depend how long Zombots will go, but I think it should resolve around Blaze. Why? Knuckles

Knuckles is one of Core Cast, he can't stay away for long. But Year 1 ended with him really adamant to focus on his job. So he won't leave Island for smaller mess, nor we can endanger ME that quickly after Neo Metal. So my best bet is that Sol Emeralds will be in danger and Knux being a kindred Guardian will sense that and feel it's also his duty to help. So he goes with Sonic to Sold Dimension, while Silver or Chaotix stay to look over ME. Elegant way to bring both 'bust far away' characters back into the comic, while relieving others for a year. Also, Big the Cat can be in Sol with no explanation, because that's what he does. (And hey, dimension hopping means we might get Sticks. Maybe Lyric could be attacking Blaze's World).

That or we're going to space. Lost Hex, Wisps, now Dodon Pa. Newer games have a lot of space. Of course there is always chance of some kind of Classic Games story, but I hope it won't come to that.

[Red Hot Jack]

I think we will definitely explore other worlds, SOL Dimension, Space, Human world, etc. new places maybe.

I had this idea that Big, Sticks and Knuckles would show up during the Metal Virus saga as survivors in season 3, but if they want to bury Sticks and pretend she never existed, I can't do much besides being upset.

Blaze and her world are definitely next on the list.

[Kellodrawsalot]

14 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Ignoring=Replying?

Uh, anyway, the reason for my unimpressed reaction is that you ended up...well, ignoring the true point of that post altogether.

Which wasn't really fair to him/her.

you ignored the fact I wasn't negative on Hope/Mina at all. dude this is  a forum I am going to post my opnions if someone brings up those characters , that's pretty fair dude, not like I offended the person and if someone gets upset over someone not liking the same fictional characters..that's not healthy dude. Re-check your priorities. 

[DabigRG]

I would like to remind people that specific, detailed ideas for future stories or characters would do well to be spoilered. 

3 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

you ignored the fact I wasn't negative on Hope/Mina at all. dude this is  a forum I am going to post my opnions if someone brings up those characters , that's pretty fair dude, not like I offended the person and if someone gets upset over someone not liking the same fictional characters..that's not healthy dude. Re-check your priorities. 

Okay, let me rephrase that on @lulzersbehalf: Are there any other [aspects of] previous characters that you think would be interesting or nice to see another go at?