Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Razule]

Sonic served his purpose in 1991 tbh

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

By what metric?

And no, “I don’t care about them” isn’t a valid reason.

I guess they were meant to be Sonic's friends before SEGA wrote their own ideas of friends for him, kind of making the FFs redundant, at least ad main characters. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, RedFox99 said:

I guess they were meant to be Sonic's friends before SEGA wrote their own ideas of friends for him, kind of making the FFs redundant, at least ad main characters. 

I don’t see how that justifies retiring them when Archie Comics showed they can work just fine with the rest of Sonic’s friends, whether as main characters in one arc or taking a backseat in another.

[RedFox99]

8 hours ago, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

I don’t see how that justifies retiring them when Archie Comics showed they can work just fine with the rest of Sonic’s friends, whether as main characters in one arc or taking a backseat in another.

To be honest, I think they would work as recurring allies rather than main protagonists because at times it felt cramped given how some characters like Rotor, Bunnie, and Antoine weren't given much development, plus Cream was often sidelined because of how crowded the main cast was (and the mandate about her not being allowed to fight).

[Salamander]

A comic is actually the perfect place to have a wide cast of characters with diverse origins and concerns, as it gives you the ability to import a familiar face for a situation instead of inventing a new one every time.  If you're writing a time-travel story, you can bring in Silver; a heist story, you can bring in Rouge; Chaotix for detective stories, maybe Whisker and Johnny or Marine for a pirate story, and so on.  The Freedom Fighters for a revolution storyline?  Why not.  You come up with new characters too, throw them together with the old characters, let them jostle together and produce drama.  Bring them back again if the occasion calls for it.

This is pretty basic writing for long-form continuity.  Inventing characters for a single purpose and using them up all at once is fine for games, movies, anything made out of single large blocks with little connecting tissue, but for a more continuous series then that's less likely to be a workable approach.  Games are not comics and vice-versa.

[Red Hot Jack]

9 hours ago, Sean said:

If characters like Shadow, Blaze, and Silver can continue existing in the games after having "served their original purpose," then I don't see why the Freedom Fighters can't either. And since this is a reboot, there's nothing stopping the writers from repurposing them entirely like others have pointed out.

I actually like the Freedom Fighters, I just want to see a comic where the iconic and popular characters get the focus. Is that too much to ask?

[SBR2]

8 hours ago, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

By what metric?

And no, “I don’t care about them” isn’t a valid reason.

It's funny how it's the only reason people ever give though isn't it? I mean I don't like The Babylon Rogues. Doesn't mean I would be angry or say "They served their purpose" if they were to appear in the new book.

[PublicEnemy1]

I, for one, hope that these new comics are more than just advertisements for the games

[Dr. Detective]

22 hours ago, Sean said:

If characters like Shadow, Blaze, and Silver can continue existing in the games after having "served their original purpose," then I don't see why the Freedom Fighters can't either. And since this is a reboot, there's nothing stopping the writers from repurposing them entirely like others have pointed out.

Yeah. Reasonings like "They served their original purpose" are always the one-two gut-punch that gets me angry whenever its used against characters that I like so I'd never resort to it when it comes time for me to be against a particular character or group of characters I'd rather not see again.. Even if I share the sentiment that I'd rather they be gone, silly reasoning for it just makes the dissenting opinion look strange and weak. 

I always just state the reasons for why the Freedom Fighters being around would hamper my own enjoyment but I would never state that the book was objectively worse for it. It's one of the reasons it's so hard talking about the Archie Comics. When I first got here, I got jumped on for not liking that one Silver SU arc for reasons I thought were justifiably bad but the pushback was so strong for a topic that wasn't even the main argument being put forth by the post (in fact I remember the post was actually praising a different arc) that I was left a little baffled. The approach people have towards these books is going to be different for everybody and so are the circumstances for why they wouldn't be able to enjoy them.

My position, nay my dream, is to have a Sonic comic that was created from the avenue I'm familiar with from the games and branches off from it to expand upon that world in a way that the games of today clearly aren't interested in doing. Other people probably aren't interested in following a Sonic comic if it doesn't share enough of a relevant connection to the one they grew up with before that ended so abruptly despite it being it's own new thing. Just being a comic book series based on a franchise you like most likely wouldn't be enough for some people and that's fine. I can't judge anyone for that. I've probably thought something similar for a different series before too. 

I like the Batman Arkham games but the idea of reading Batman comics doesn't interest me. If they were comics based on the Arkham series I "might" be a bit more interested but the desire I have for content pertaining to that series is different because the circumstances surrounding my situation with them are different.

All I can do is state my case and hope I'm satisfied with what I do get. Sometimes it's harder to do with some subjects more than others admittedly.

For example, I'm still extremely jealous of how super popular Blaze is. I can't help it. I'm sorry Blaze fans. I don't hate her. I spent $20 bucks on her Jazwares action figure. I don't hate Blaze. I don't. I swear. 

[Multikaris]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah. Reasonings like "They served their original purpose" are always the one-two gut-punch that gets me angry whenever its used against characters that I like so I'd never resort to it when it comes time for me to be against a particular character or group of characters I'd rather not see again.. Even if I share the sentiment that I'd rather they be gone, silly reasoning for it just makes the dissenting opinion look strange and weak. 

I always just state the reasons for why the Freedom Fighters being around would hamper my own enjoyment but I would never state that the book was objectively worse for it. It's one of the reasons it's so hard talking about the Archie Comics. When I first got here, I got jumped on for not liking that one Silver SU arc for reasons I thought were justifiably bad but the pushback was so strong for a topic that wasn't even the main argument being put forth by the post (in fact I remember the post was actually praising a different arc) that I was left a little baffled. The approach people have towards these books is going to be different for everybody and so are the circumstances for why they wouldn't be able to enjoy them.

My position, nay my dream, is to have a Sonic comic that was created from the avenue I'm familiar with from the games and branches off from it to expand upon that world in a way that the games of today clearly aren't interested in doing. Other people probably aren't interested in following a Sonic comic if it doesn't share enough of a relevant connection to the one they grew up with before that ended so abruptly despite it being it's own new thing. Just being a comic book series based on a franchise you like most likely wouldn't be enough for some people and that's fine. I can't judge anyone for that. I've probably thought something similar for a different series before too. 

I like the Batman Arkham games but the idea of reading Batman comics doesn't interest me. If they were comics based on the Arkham series I "might" be a bit more interested but the desire I have for content pertaining to that series is different because the circumstances surrounding my situation with them are different.

All I can do is state my case and hope I'm satisfied with what I do get. Sometimes it's harder to do with some subjects more than others admittedly.

For example, I'm still extremely jealous of how super popular Blaze is. I can't help it. I'm sorry Blaze fans. I don't hate her. I spent $20 bucks on her Jazwares action figure. I don't hate Blaze. I don't. I swear. 

I agree with this, but, unfortunately, I find several of the newer characters, like the Hard-Boiled Heavies (who I also find overrated) to be inherently flawed. It’ll take me good writing to convince me that they could really be worthwhile.

[Your Vest Friend]

I just think the FFs have had a way easier time than any other alternate media character group at this point. They've been allowed to have their own pocket for two decades while other continuities have fallen and thrown to the wayside as the franchise's position caught up to them (Fleetway being a notable example because it had over 180 issues worth of original stories before being slowly killed off for reasons not entirely due to SEGA). It'd be a bonus for fans if they got into IDW, but they should also acknowledge how lucky they've been compared to fans of every other continuity (even Boom). 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

I agree with this, but, unfortunately, I find several of the newer characters, like the Hard-Boiled Heavies (who I also find overrated) to be inherently flawed. It’ll take me good writing to convince me that they could really be worthwhile.

I didn't really say anything about the newer characters. I could take or leave some of the newer stuff that the games are doing I suppose. My idea of what counts as taking the world from the games that I grew up with and expanding it to make something better developed and interesting varies from subject to subject and depends on the circumstances I experienced.

For example, I don't have any interest in seeing more stuff specifically about the Classic era. A few select things like the environments from there I feel I'd like to see incorporated into a more modern sense but I was never really a fan of their old designs nor any of the issues of the Archie comics that went back to the past to show Sonic trekking through those old areas and not doing much else. I probably would have enjoyed it more had I been a fan of the Classics and more familiar with what I was seeing but I got into Sonic (and video games in general honestly) through Adventure 2.

And even though I've watched several playthroughs of it, I've yet to play Sonic Mania so I can't say I care too much about the Hard-Boiled Heavies. Would they impede my enjoyment of the book if they were there? Would I care or would it be something that felt out of place because of whichever game they appeared in? I don't know.

Then there's stuff like Mighty the Armadillo, whom I don't like at all and think is incredibly overrated. I couldn't stand that he was getting so much attention and focus in the comic before the reboot on its own and the fact that he was apart of my favorite team of characters, the Chaotix, made it worse. I got legitimately mad when the first SU Chaotix Arc that advertised the three members of the gang I cared about ended up actually, secretly, being about Mighty when it came out. I knew full well that the reason it was like this was because he appeared alongside them in the Knuckles' Chaotix game long before Heroes existed but I didn't give a shit because I had never played it and Heroes was what I was familiar with.

Even when the reboot happened and I finally got the Chaotix I wanted, I still noticed I had an issue with seeing Mighty still around, most likely because of this mentality I have that is unable to disconnect itself from the world of the games I grew up with. It's hard not to view him as a scrapped character from the realm of the Classics. 

Yet at the same time, I don't have any problem with it when it comes to Fang. I have no clue why. It might be because he's a villain and I love the villains in the book. I mean, Dear lord, I LOVE the hell out of the Battle Kuku lord especially! I'd actually love to see him reappear in the games if it meant he could be how he is in the comics. 

There's other strange things like how I'm unable to view the Freedom Fighters as this weird separate thing from an old TV show that exists within its own realm of not being official characters from the games but also not being originally created characters from the book... yet at the same time I have NO problem with Ixis Naugus or Scratch and Grounder being arounddespite them being the exact same thing. It might just be that I mentally make exceptions for them because I like their characters more but sometimes it's hard to tell.

Even within my own mental space, shit sometimes doesn't make sense. All I can do, really, is just say what I do and don't like and try my best to explain or figure out why I guess.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 hours ago, Dr. Jack said:

I actually like the Freedom Fighters, I just want to see a comic where the iconic and popular characters get the focus. Is that too much to ask?

Depends—can they not share?

[Celestia]

If you don't care about the DiC characters possibly being gone then that's fine, but I find it weird that people keep insisting that everyone "give IDW a chance." Nobody's obligated to do that, I can totally understand why people are wary after everything that happened to Archie.

Personally while I don't want to see those characters disappear entirely, it's not a dealbreaker for me. The games provide a lot of interesting stuff to work with, so I'd still be interested in seeing what Flynn and friends do with the book, but  that aside it'd be really sad to lose characters that were there since nearly the beginning. Yes, even if they weren't in the games.

I'm sure Ian and IDW has or will fight for them to appear in some capacity, and I'm hoping SEGA will hear 'em out on that--I mean, they did before and maybe I'm just being optimistic but I...honestly can't think of much reason for them not to this time around?--but who knows at this point. It'd be nice (to say the least...) if they let us know sooner rather than later.

[PublicEnemy1]

47 minutes ago, Celestia said:

If you don't care about the DiC characters possibly being gone then that's fine, but I find it weird that people keep insisting that everyone "give IDW a chance." Nobody's obligated to do that, I can totally understand why people are wary after everything that happened to Archie.

Personally while I don't want to see those characters disappear entirely, it's not a dealbreaker for me. The games provide a lot of interesting stuff to work with, so I'd still be interested in seeing what Flynn and friends do with the book, but  that aside it'd be really sad to lose characters that were there since nearly the beginning. Yes, even if they weren't in the games.

I'm sure Ian and IDW has or will fight for them to appear in some capacity, and I'm hoping SEGA will hear 'em out on that--I mean, they did before and maybe I'm just being optimistic but I...honestly can't think of much reason for them not to this time around?--but who knows at this point. It'd be nice (to say the least...) if they let us know sooner rather than later.

Well, if they let Sally cameo in an OFFICIAL comic (the third Forces one), I'm sure that they'd have no qualms about having her and the rest of the gang in the IDW comics.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I don't think they "let" her show up in that comic, it was a little reference ABT added in himself. They probably didn't even notice it.

 

Even still, that's a massive jump. It's like saying the posters for Mighty and Ray in Gens' city escape meant they'd be involved in the plot of Lost World.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

I don't think they "let" her show up in that comic, it was a little reference ABT added in himself. They probably didn't even notice it.

 

Even still, that's a massive jump. It's like saying the posters for Mighty and Ray in Gens' city escape meant they'd be involved in the plot of Lost World.

I was about to say the same thing and use the same exact example.

Cameos are a far different beast than actual, physical appearances. Even something like spotting Cream in Adventure DX doesn't mean anything. Let's also not forget Chris Thorndyke appearing on an advertisement for Sonic X in Adventure DX as well. What a cameo means can change depending on what the intent and use is.

Personally, I can't wait for the next appearance of the Chao in Space billboard.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Cameos are a far different beast than actual, physical appearances. Even something like spotting Cream in Adventure DX doesn't mean anything. Let's also not forget Chris Thorndyke appearing on an advertisement for Sonic X in Adventure DX as well. What a cameo means can change depending on what the intent and use is.

You know, I actually remember someone years ago claiming that NiGHTS and all of it's stuff deserved, no rather should have been 100% canon and involved with the Sonic series, simply because NiGHTS got a lot of cameos in Sonic games. It was really weird.

 

Oh, and I'm not sure I made it clear, but don't get me wrong -- I love the FFs really like Antoine, Bunnie and Nicole, but if Ian's own creations that don't have any ties to old properties or concepts aren't allowed, I'm not sure why these ones would be.

Moreover, I'd most like to see a new continuity established without them regardless, at least from the start. It would feel noticeably similar to the #252 days if we got an entire new continuity that also had the Freedom Fighters and also had all the game stuff again, so maybe not introducing them with everyone else will allow Flynn and whatever other writers to flesh out not only the existing cast, but also any new elements to the plot without also having to figure out how to include every other character the story would introduce. Because honestly, while the writing in general is still great -- a lot of Post-252 is kind of a clusterfuck in terms of cast and location.

Ideally I'd like to see the comic continue for a while and leave maybe a gap or hint about one person or another, but introduce the Archie cast in different roles at a later date, perhaps spreading each character's arcs across the lesser-developed plots of more obscure games. The absolute gold that was the Champions arc has convinced me of how well those can go.

[Tornado]

"Those characters served their purpose" is a hilarious excuse for a franchise where "shitty friends" has been a go-to meme outside and within the fanbase since at least the fallout of STH '06.

[Red Hot Jack]

6 hours ago, Celestia said:

If you don't care about the DiC characters possibly being gone then that's fine, but I find it weird that people keep insisting that everyone "give IDW a chance." Nobody's obligated to do that, I can totally understand why people are wary after everything that happened to Archie.

Personally while I don't want to see those characters disappear entirely, it's not a dealbreaker for me. The games provide a lot of interesting stuff to work with, so I'd still be interested in seeing what Flynn and friends do with the book, but  that aside it'd be really sad to lose characters that were there since nearly the beginning. Yes, even if they weren't in the games.

I'm sure Ian and IDW has or will fight for them to appear in some capacity, and I'm hoping SEGA will hear 'em out on that--I mean, they did before and maybe I'm just being optimistic but I...honestly can't think of much reason for them not to this time around?--but who knows at this point. It'd be nice (to say the least...) if they let us know sooner rather than later.

Why can't they give it a chance even if the Freedom Fighters were not in it? Are they the only reason to read a Sonic comic? I think everyone should give the new comic a chance because IDW is a good company and Ian a good writer, I think it's the perfect match and there is nothing to worry, it's just that fans always have to find a reason to bitch about stuff... I understand that.

9 hours ago, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

Depends—can they not share?

Sure they can, the Freedom Fighters can appear sometimes and get some focus, but not all the time as they used to do, unless the comic decides to focus on comic exclusive characters, because what makes the Freedom Fighters more important than other comic guests? Their popularity I suppose...

The reason I'm not worried by this new comic is because I trust Ian, he made good use of Penders's concepts, and especially in the new continuity, he created a lot of awesome stuff that I'm gonna miss: the aquatic mobians, Eclipse and the Dark Arms, Breezie and her "empire", the Egg Army, the way Walter Naugus was linked to Wendy, Silver's expanded future, the SEGAized Freedom Fighters in Avengers style, the allies and world building. I'm gonna miss this, but if Ian made those ideas, surely he can make more to fill a new comic, so I wouldn't worry about the loss. Even though, I have a theory, that they can actually use the old stuff from the reboot, but Sega and IDW insist that this is a fresh start for marketing purposes, so we won't see them for a while, but it could change (as Ian himself said in the latest BumbleKast) since these characters and concepts are still available for use, I believe. Hopefully they will be reintroduced, but for now, I'd keep the focus on the game cast to make things simpler for the wider audience.

What do you think about this?

[Your Vest Friend]

Personally, I think people put too much stock in the phrase "it could change in the future" because people are reading it that change is a strong likelihood. Protip: Ian said that about stuff on the Archie comic too, even pre-reboot. 99% of the time it didn't, and most of the few times it did were things that really were just inevitable (eg Cream and Omega being introduced to the comic). I guess Honey being put in post-reboot would be an example of a less inevitable thing, but that was Ian himself preventing use of her character because she was only scrapped data for a long time and only the 2012 port changed that. 

Point is, I wouldn't put too much stock in the phrase. 

[Red Hot Jack]

There is a big difference between the stuff from the original timeline and the reboot, those weren't allowed for use because they were created by other writers who had a case against Archie, these ones were made by Ian, Aleah, Evan, etc. so I think it's a different thing. Plus, Ian is working on the new comics, I don't see a reason why they can't be used other than "fresh new start to introduce new readers and game fans easily", which seems like they intend to do. So I think they are in the same boat as the Freedom Fighters, they could be used but they won't for a while, because the developers insist so much that they want to create a new comic universe.

[Salamander]

I strongly suspect that there will be a "no characters who were Archie-exclusive" clause, regardless of ownership.  If the Archie comic was terminated because of its persistent legal troubles, there's likely to be a complete severance of narrative ties to prevent any argument that there's any kind of continuity between it and IDW.

[Tornado]

3 hours ago, Dr. Jack said:

Why can't they give it a chance even if the Freedom Fighters were not in it? Are they the only reason to read a Sonic comic?

If Sega makes an edict that the line for game universe characters allowed is drawn at Sonic, Tails, Robotnik and Amy, and there were a bunch of rumors and vague statements that made that appear to be the case before the comic came out, would you still be shouting from the rooftop about how everyone should give it a chance?

[BlueSky]

Well, the FF doesn't need to be there in the first issues to get me onboard, but I'd really, really love to know if they're getting in at all! That's what I want most, knowledge about the FF's situation considering the comics!

#justspillthebeansalreadyordoyouneedsomehelpwithit

Just gee, end my suffering already.

3 hours ago, Dr. Jack said:

I think everyone should give the new comic a chance because IDW is a good company and Ian a good writer, I think it's the perfect match and there is nothing to worry, it's just that fans always have to find a reason to bitch about stuff... I understand that.

Weell, I'll say this; the more people tell me to give it a chance without the thing in question giving me any reasons to, the more I'd love not to and just shout out about the fact I've decided not to give it a chance. Yes I think Mr. Flynn's an awesome writer but I have my emotional issues I've told about earlier thus won't go into those now.

Don't try to pull that one with me, the rope's gonna end up sitting in the pulling one's palms. Seriously. Yes I'm an evil person sometimes.