Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[___-_]

As far as mocapping is concerned, although I'll always prefer Colors - Lost World's traditional key framing take, I wouldn't mind mocap returning as long as it's at least at Unleashed's standard, but more so higher.

The in-game cutscenes were a huge step up when Unleashed came around, but even then there were still slightly noticeable uncanny movements and wobbling that you wouldn't find in the later games.  

Sega has been consistantly stepping up their animation and camera work game in general for some time now, though, so it's prob not too much to worry about in that regard. 

[GUN Commander]

Alright. Theory time. Not that I'm necessarily an expert at this sort of thing.

The Sonic social media channels posted this image:

 

At first, it's just another of Aaron Webber's goofy memes. And it totally is. But there's two things about this image that stick out to me.

One. In the "Chaotic Evil" section, there's a hidden message above and below the question marks reading:
"I'll take you on a wild adventure if you want to go"

Is that a hint towards something? Perhaps we should find the meaning of that.

 

But now comes the part that I THINK pertains to Sonic Forces SPECIFICALLY. The "Chaotic Evil" and "Edgey Evil" are clearly a joke, but are they perhaps stand-ins for two evil characters that may appear in Sonic Forces? See, I'm thinking this MIGHT (keyword MIGHT) be a hint at the characters appearing in Forces. We've already been told that Sonic (of course), Amy, Knuckles, Eggman and the Chaotix are appearing in Forces, so that lines up with this image really well. Does this mean Big, Shadow, and two evil characters (possibly new ones) are showing up in Forces too?

I might be reading into it a bit too much in my hunger for Sonic Forces news, but eh. It's something to chew on for a bit.

[Diogenes]

14 minutes ago, GUN Commander said:

I might be reading into it a bit too much in my hunger for Sonic Forces news

Definitely reading too much into it, but nice catch with the hidden text nonetheless. Seems like it might be a reference to this song.

[Bowbowis]

9 hours ago, StriCNYN3 said:

As far as mocapping is concerned, although I'll always prefer Colors - Lost World's traditional key framing take, I wouldn't mind mocap returning as long as it's at least at Unleashed's standard, but more so higher.

The in-game cutscenes were a huge step up when Unleashed came around, but even then there were still slightly noticeable uncanny movements and wobbling that you wouldn't find in the later games.  

Sega has been consistantly stepping up their animation and camera work game in general for some time now, though, so it's prob not too much to worry about in that regard. 

Animation? Sure. Camera work? Don't make me laugh. What passes for cinematography in the modern games is amateurish at best. It's the sort of thing I'd expect from somebody who has never taken a single film class in their life.

Spoiler

 

 

Static Camera? Check.

Empty set design? Check.

Only using natural light? Check.

Dull composition? Check.

Utter disregard for the "language" of cinema? Check.

This is a cinematographic failure on so many levels its not even funny. Generations and Lost World have it a bit better than Colors but they're still not very good.

Now, let's look at a game that does have good cinematography. Sonic Adventure 2.

Spoiler

 

 

Camera movement utilized to fullest potential? Check.

Interesting and interactive sets? Check.

Varied lighting? Check.

Creative composition? Check.

Uses its cinematography to enhance the story being told? Check.

One of the reasons that SA2's story is still one of the best in the series is because it's so good about using interesting visuals to enhance the plot and characters. You could mute it, cover up the subtitles, and it would still be interesting to watch. Contrast the modern game's minimalist approach, which is just boring.

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, GUN Commander said:

 

But now comes the part that I THINK pertains to Sonic Forces SPECIFICALLY. The "Chaotic Evil" and "Edgey Evil" are clearly a joke, but are they perhaps stand-ins for two evil characters that may appear in Sonic Forces? See, I'm thinking this MIGHT (keyword MIGHT) be a hint at the characters appearing in Forces. We've already been told that Sonic (of course), Amy, Knuckles, Eggman and the Chaotix are appearing in Forces, so that lines up with this image really well. Does this mean Big, Shadow, and two evil characters (possibly new ones) are showing up in Forces too?

I might be reading into it a bit too much in my hunger for Sonic Forces news, but eh. It's something to chew on for a bit.

Eggman Nega confirmed.

It also says "I'll take you on a wild Adventure" and "If you want to go" though the words are really faded.

Wait... Adventure and three question marks...?

SONIC ADVENTURE 3 CONFIRMED!!! OMG OMG OMG!!!

...Pffft. I had to. lol

[JosepHenry]

Why everyone forgets Unleashed had way better animations than Colors and Generations? They are in no way, perfect, but still way better.

Also, while SA2 has more "entertaining" animations than both Colors and Generations, some animations were just terrible. Eggman's animations in Gerald's Diary cutscene, Amy's when Shadow remembers what Maria really said, that's not good. Mixing Unleashed smoother animations with SA2 camera angles, we could have something really good.

[Wraith]

A wild adventure huh? That could only mean one thing. The most iconic sonic game with the most memorable stories and characters are finally getting their due after all this modern GARBAGE.

 

Spoiler

 

IT'S TIME

[D.K.]

8 minutes ago, Josh said:

  Reveal hidden contents

IT'S TIME

ｃｈｅｃｋ ｔｈｉｓ ｏｕｔ

[RictalRose0]

My bets are on Nega.

Spoiler

And Mephiles for Edgey Evil. The timeline that lead to his creation might have been erased, but his scepter is still out there, somewhere.

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

30 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Why everyone forgets Unleashed had way better animations than Colors and Generations?

On this forum of all places? Heh, no. You'll never hear the end of people on the SSMB noting the advantages that Unleashed had in the production department over Colors and Generations.

They may be the better games, but even I won't deny that Unleashed went above and beyond Generations in terms of pushing the system it was on and busting out production values.

Colors however, did also achieve the equivalent of Unleashed, pushing the system and whatnot, but it was on the Wii.

[___-_]

@Bowbowis I've only said that they've been stepping up their game, key word being stepping up. I've never said that they were perfect, but some of the cutscenes in the later games do tend for me to side with them with their improvements.

And you just happened to choose the most boring Generations and Lost World cutscenes while choosing the most memorable SA2B cutscenes, which isn't really fair (Can't say much for Colors though as those scenes tend to be very static, haha, though I was arguing more towards for the animation in that game's case)

Remember these little moments?

(Notice all of the worm and bird view, the fast camera panings and interesting close up perspectives)

And here?

(Again, notice the close up shots and slow pan that's going on like when Sonic is waking up for example.)

It just comes across as more professional to me compared to the previous titles, especially compared to SA2B when that game had plenty of awkward zoom ins and weird perspectives on top of the awkward mocap animations.

My Wii U and phone can only let me rebuttal so much without crashing, haha, and I don't want this to spin into a camera work thread not related to Sonic Forces, so I'll just leave it at that.

[D.K.]

4 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

One of the reasons that SA2's story is still one of the best in the series is because it's so good about using interesting visuals to enhance the plot and characters. You could mute it, cover up the subtitles, and it would still be interesting to watch.

It helps that SA2's cutscenes have, like, dynamic and vibrant environments and stuff.

Generations's cutscenes are literally, LITERALLY Sonic and Tails standing in a blank white void dropping exposition while Pontac (offscreen, of course) drags the rest of the characters to Mt. Irrelevancy to meet the Paper Mario cast.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

47 minutes ago, Depression Kong said:

Pontac (offscreen, of course) drags the rest of the characters to Mt. Irrelevancy to meet the Paper Mario cast.

This common, short-sighted misconception that Pontaff are responsible for the bare bones state of Generations' story really needs to end and die. 

Especially with it being common knowledge that they weren't calling the shots on anything story concept related for that game. 

[Red Hot Jack]

10 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

This common, short-sighted misconception that Pontaff are responsible for the bare bones state of Generations' story really needs to end and die. 

Especially with it being common knowledge that they weren't calling the shots on anything story concept related for that game. 

I know it's SEGA's fault, I heard a rumor about them decreasing the number of cutscenes for that game. But Pontaff still have no idea on how to write the Sonic cast.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Chameleon94 said:

I know it's SEGA's fault, I heard a rumor about them decreasing the number of cutscenes for that game. But Pontaff still have no idea on how to write the Sonic cast.

That's not the point of my post. My point is however much they know means jack squat when someone tries to blame them for the other characters getting benched. 

Which makes the bolded a bit of a loose statement when we haven't really gotten to see how well they can actually write the characters in full outside of say,  one or two cutscenes. 

As for Sonic and Tails,  well character wise they're kept intact for the most part honestly even under Pontaff's pen,  simple as that is 

[Red Hot Jack]

12 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

That's not the point of my post. My point is however much they know means jack squat when someone tries to blame them for the other characters getting benched. 

Which makes the bolded a bit of a loose statement when we haven't really gotten to see how well they can actually write the characters in full outside of say,  one or two cutscenes. 

As for Sonic and Tails,  well character wise they're kept intact for the most part honestly even under Pontaff's pen,  simple as that is 

They got to write a bit more Knuckles, Amy and Shadow in Shattered Crystal, their Boom version at least, I thought Shadow and Amy were fine in that game, but as for the dialogue it was Pontaff's worst entry yet. They improved in Fire and Ice. We're getting off-topic though.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

49 minutes ago, Chameleon94 said:

They improved in Fire and Ice. We're getting off-topic though.

Agreed on both of those accounts.

[___-_]

6 hours ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Why everyone forgets Unleashed had way better animations than Colors and Generations? They are in no way, perfect, but still way better.

Just wanted to add one final thing to further clear myself, that first moment of the video you posted, the part with Sonic's blank wide open gaze but with a snarky open mouth when asking for Chip's confirmation about his name.... Those are the uncanny moments I'm talking about, and that's just the very least of it.

Like let's look @13:58 - 14:28 in the very same video. Just look at how Tails comes in the scene, how he stiffly points his finger with other weird gesturing, how he runs to the Tornado, the weird knee buckling that these characters tend to do in this game... It looks uncanny and clearly mocapped.

Colors and up (but mostly Generations/ Lost World) are animated in such a way that it's reminiscent of cartoonish characters being animated and tend to be very expressive (when the scenes allow for them to be, anyway) and for these reasons (And even with Sonic and the gang just boringly standing around, striking a few poses and such) on top of not looking unnecessarily wobbly in certain moments, I'd say the animations in the later games are far superior.

Like say here:

The gesturing just seems right with me, and there's no jerkiness you'd tend to see from something like an unpolished motion capture.

But yeah at the end of the day, to each their own. To try and spin this back to forces, Im sure it will deliver in the production value portion at the very least. It's just very interesting they're going back to that method again.

[JezMM]

Re: theorising on previous page, I kinda hope Nega never comes back outside of spin-offs and references.  He caused an annoying plothole where we just have to assume he came back in time AND THEN went to Blaze's dimension to pose as an alternate Eggman in order for both Rush and Rivals to be compatible, and then we ALSO have to assume both Rivals games come after both Rush games for him to be against rather than with Eggman in those.

But more importantly when Rivals 2 gave him a voice, I haaaated it.  His whole shtick was how he was a cold, calculated but ultimately unhinged, chaos-driven version of Eggman.  Since his demeanor was more polite, I actually imagined him with a slightly suave, grounded voice, in fact not too distant from the kind of voice SatAM Eggman had, just a little less ham to it maybe.

Then Rivals 2 came along ANNND HEEEE TEEEELKS LIKEEEE THEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS EEHENNENEHENENEHEN

No. >=|

[blazefan519]

38 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Re: theorising on previous page, I kinda hope Nega never comes back outside of spin-offs and references.  He caused an annoying plothole where we just have to assume he came back in time AND THEN went to Blaze's dimension to pose as an alternate Eggman in order for both Rush and Rivals to be compatible, and then we ALSO have to assume both Rivals games come after both Rush games for him to be against rather than with Eggman in those.

But more importantly when Rivals 2 gave him a voice, I haaaated it.  His whole shtick was how he was a cold, calculated but ultimately unhinged, chaos-driven version of Eggman.  Since his demeanor was more polite, I actually imagined him with a slightly suave, grounded voice, in fact not too distant from the kind of voice SatAM Eggman had, just a little less ham to it maybe.

Then Rivals 2 came along ANNND HEEEE TEEEELKS LIKEEEE THEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS EEHENNENEHENENEHEN

No. >=|

It's been officially confirmed that Nega is Eggman's descendant. So, if he's brought back, he'll just be tied to time like Silver, and no longer has correlation with Blaze. So Rivals is his canonical game.

Also his voiced changed for the Olympic Games, where he just sounds like a slightly more arrogant Eggman. So basically, he's just Eggman. None of that high pitched non sense.

[Jango]

I was wondering if Sonic Forces will have a single main story mode to follow the events... (of the story duh!) and you play with the character the game forces (ha!) you, in an specific order. Or if there will be some kind of hub like Gens and you can choose which level and Sonic play as first and later... Or even, if each character will have it's own story like Sonic Adventure.

What ya think/hoping for?

[Solly]

28 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

It's been officially confirmed that Nega is Eggman's descendant. So, if he's brought back, he'll just be tied to time like Silver, and no longer has correlation with Blaze. So Rivals is his canonical game.

Also his voiced changed for the Olympic Games, where he just sounds like a slightly more arrogant Eggman. So basically, he's just Eggman.

does that mean eggman had sex

with a girl eggman

Also, that's kind of bullshit, since everything about his design screams "I'm the bizarro world version of the main villain" which fit what Rush was going for. 

[blazefan519]

5 minutes ago, Jango said:

I was wondering if Sonic Forces will have a single main story mode to follow the events... (of the story duh!) and you play with the character the game forces (ha!) you, in an specific order. Or if there will be some kind of hub like Gens and you can choose which level and Sonic play as first and later... Or even, if each character will have it's own story like Sonic Adventure.

What ya think/hoping for?

I'm personally hoping each character has their own story, so that we can play through one story with that playstyle instead of having to constantly switch between the two. Makes the overall flow feel better, but that's just me.

 

5 minutes ago, Solly said:

does that mean eggman had sex

with a girl eggman

Also, that's kind of bullshit, since everything about his design screams "I'm the bizarro world version of the main villain" which fit what Rush was going for. 

That's what Sega said, not me. But me personally, I feel like his design was just him trying to look like Eggman, but not all the way since he doesn't want to be associated with his failures.

[JezMM]

Tbh considering all his story appearances have been in handheld games, they'd need to re-introduce him 100% if they're gonna include him in Forces, so previous canon be damned.

It's annoying that Blaze's Rush canon seems to be considered the concrete one, while Nega's Rivals canon is considered concrete.  Incompatible concepts without severe headcanon intervention to patch stuff up between games, argh.

[blazefan519]

8 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Tbh considering all his story appearances have been in handheld games, they'd need to re-introduce him 100% if they're gonna include him in Forces, so previous canon be damned.

It's annoying that Blaze's Rush canon seems to be considered the concrete one, while Nega's Rivals canon is considered concrete.  Incompatible concepts without severe headcanon intervention to patch stuff up between games, argh.

Well, with his inclusion as his own playable character in the new Mario and Sonic games, that might actually come to fruition. Or not, I don't know. The lore is just kinda weird, which is why I want the characters to be reestablished, so we're not in this weird loop and no one knows where these characters are from and what they do.