Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Zaysho]

2 hours ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

There is stuff in this thread that makes me "cringe" (for a lack of a better word), and people who joke about those "cringy" things, are, unfortunately, getting in the list.

I want to steer at this from another angle, but while I can understand the frustration due to lack of news and the repetitive arguments that always pop up in these threads, especially when what we do know has been talked about endlessly, I feel I should suggest some things regarding this.

If you feel a thread is going nowhere or you are just not interested in the same garbage constantly popping up, especially with lack of more information, it would be best to remove yourself from it and just ignore the thread. If you find some members' posts annoying or bothersome, short of them actually breaking rules or getting overly heated (in which case you can talk to us), you can add them to your ignore list and move on.

You have options to filter things how you want or otherwise ignore them, and I don't feel coming into a thread and exclaiming you're tired of certain lines of conversations really help in the grand scheme of things. I only bring this up since I try to keep myself out of this thread more than needed at this point because I'm tired of it too, but I really see no reason to stop everyone else from voicing their concerns or speculating on the game.

[Osmium]

3 minutes ago, Chameleon94 said:

Nice, that's all I needed to know. It's not that I don't like Mania, I'm just not excited for it, I wanted a main HD game and with brand new zones that plays like the classics, so I guess I'll have to wait and see the Classic gameplay for Forces...

If you wanna see a good idea of a 3D game that plays like the classics, go watch Sonic Spitball part 3. 

 

[Diogenes]

23 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I think you meant what plays like a genesis sonic game. As a sonic game could be anything to someone fmdiffrent.  sa1 is a "sonic " game

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone's personal tastes, just what I consider to play like a Sonic game.

But if you're going to pretend you're trying to be objective and just declare anything that's been in a Sonic game "plays like a Sonic game", then you render the phrase meaningless.

[Meta77]

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone's personal tastes, just what I consider to play like a Sonic game.

But if you're going to pretend you're trying to be objective and just declare anything that's been in a Sonic game "plays like a Sonic game", then you render the phrase meaningless.

Well as I said those games you mentioned are genesis era. It's like saying the first Mario is a Mario game and 64 isn't

[Diogenes]

Sonic Utopia isn't a Genesis era game. It's a recent 3D game (well, fangame demo) that is based in and expands on the mechanics and gameplay style of the Genesis Sonics. In a similar way, SM64 is based in and expands on the mechanics of 2D Mario (with greater changes than Genesis Sonic to Utopia, but you can still see the core concepts in there).

Modern Sonic is not based in and does not expand on the mechanics and gameplay of the Genesis Sonics.

[BubbleButt TV]

14 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

So I saw this post on tumblr

https://creaturebelowthedeck.tumblr.com/post/159153042819/this-came-from-nakamurashuns-twitter-page-where

It's apparently Shun Nakamura doing some mocap for what appears to be Sonic Forces (or something else?)

Now he's obviously doing Sonic here. But who's the guy in the back playing? Silver?

https://mobile.twitter.com/SEGA_OFFICIAL/status/847314142297956352

In light of this image I thought it would be nice to do a small study/recap of Sonic and motion capture and I have to say I find it really interesting that SEGA would choose to go with motion capture again, considering this cartoony style they've been going for lately. As far as I'm aware, the only Sonic games to have used mocap are SA2, '06 and Unleashed and it's been quite a rocky road.

(GIF taken from ProJared's SA2 vid)

In SA2 Sonic's arm didn't connect to his body in certain cutscenes and they just didn't bother fixing that. 

Other times it was just really wonky (for lack of a better way of describing it) It looked like a GTA mod at times.

In '06 they looked like people dressed up in costumes (although this was due in part to really bad models)

Unleashed looked so much better and this was most likely due to better looking models and an actual mix of mocap and traditional keyframed animation. (Not to mention the technology was just getting better and animators had a clearer idea on how to make things work)

In Colours, Generations and Lost World they ditched motion capture altogether and stuck with keyframed animation which resulted in stuff like this: 

Stiffer, yet more exaggerated movement.

In all honesty, if they are using motion capture again and can match Unleashed, I'll be very happy. Unleashed had a good mix of realistic and exaggerated movement, but I think SA2 and '06 both showed what can go wrong when you try to apply human proportions to cartoon characters.

Where does everyone else stand on it? Do you think motion capture has potential or should they keep the method of animation they've been using since Colours?  

EDIT: Good grief, my GIFs have gone! I'm working on this. ?

EDIT 2: Fixed it! For now at least... ?

 

[Soniman]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

S3&K, Sonic Mania, and Sonic Utopia.

so basically, only the games you like

personally i long given up the notion thats theres only one correct way to make a sonic game at this point, rather what appeals to you the most

It's been over 10 years and people still make jokes about Sonic 06. It's still the quintessential bad game. There is no way you could compare it to Lost World favorably. 

People still trying to drag SLW to 06's level is insane to me, the only reason its still even remembered is because its the most recent main game release. After Forces comes out it will quickly be forgotten as that weird experimental subpar game that failed impress and was quickly thrown aside. Its not even really funny-bad like 06 as its a completely functional game so thats even less of a reason

[JosepHenry]

I wanna know peoples concerns and opinions, but just once is enough. *Sigh*

Let's talk about game then, are we sure that that picture of Nakamura is from the game? If it is, what they are posing for?

[Diogenes]

19 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

In SA2 Sonic's arm didn't connect to his body in certain cutscenes and they just didn't bother fixing that.

Y'know I actually don't mind this, I kinda prefer Sonic as a collection of basic shapes rather than being one smoothly connected organic body.

15 minutes ago, Soniman said:

so basically, only the games you like

Unsurprisingly I chose what I considered to be the best examples. I could've named CD, some of the game gear games, or various other fangames that had the same style but that I don't especially like for one reason or another, but what's to be gained by that?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Asking what's to be gained from anything in this thread is beyond redundant at this point, I don't think you have much of a claim to stand on if that's the question you're proposing.

[StaticMania]

10 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Y'know I actually don't mind this, I kinda prefer Sonic as a collection of basic shapes rather than being one smoothly connected organic body.

It took me a minute to understand what you meant by this, but it wouldn't really make much of a difference if it appears seamless anyway, would it?

 

You aren't fine with an obviously disconnected arm during cutscenes?

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

It took me a minute to understand what you meant by this, but it wouldn't really make much of a difference if it appears seamless anyway, would it?

 

You aren't fine with an obviously disconnected arm during cutscenes?

Honestly, I think it's fine if his arm doesn't actually connect with his body. I'm no more bothered by it than I'm bothered by his giant semi-cyclopean eye(s), his weird bean nose, or how Tails' tails are supposed to work.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I think limbs floating off the body is going a bit far honestly. Leave that to Rayman. Sonic is a cartoon, but he still has a character design to work off of, he shouldn't distort into weird shapes like Ren and Stimpy. I might be on the fence about this normally, but the character height problems in Steven Universe are getting ever more glaring by the episode.

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, Solly said:

I can't agree with this at all. For all its shortcomings (of which there are many), Lost World actually sought to answer a lot of the complaints people had and still have with modern Sonic games. It was less automated, had more platforming with a fair amount of variety, and there was an actual attempt at making Sonic control more accurately by giving him tiered movement (i.e a run button). I can sympathize with people who like the boost games and don't think SEGA needs to completely reinvent the wheel, but I think they also saw that building off of that style was difficult, and that making something new was more interesting and gave them the opportunity to address criticism.

It's been over 10 years and people still make jokes about Sonic 06. It's still the quintessential bad game. There is no way you could compare it to Lost World favorably. 

I can?

Sonic 06, aside from the humans... I actually find to be way more thematically interesting than sonic lost world. Something that people don't give 06 credit for because they were to busy being mauled, is the actually visually interesting level designs. I found them more visually interesting than they were to play through on account of control reasons but they were actually interesting on that note. Despite just modeling himself after shadow's visage, I still like mephilies more than every single member of the deadly 6. I like silver more than the deadly 6 too. The deadly six, much like the rest of lost world, leaned way too far in the other direction, seeming like they were aping mario and dream works in terms of visual design and lost its identity in the process. I don't like how the levels are designs and kind of nothing, I don't like the characters, I don't like how the new characters look , I don't care or like what they are about. Its game thats visually and thematically completely uninteresting with mediocre gameplay on top of that. 

You know why people get mad at sonic 06, and even Shadows game. Because they wanted those games to be good,when they played them they saw things that could have actually been interesting and they failed. That isn't to say that there aren't a slew of people justifyably mad at those games being bad, i'm one of them. But I feel like that also plays a part of it, that's why you get people asking for 06 to be done again but good, because what they saw, with those bad elements removed was a nugget of a interesting idea with some cool characters. 

Sonic lost world has none of that, people don't care about sonic lost world, because it isn't as bad as 06, people don't care about sonic lost world, because it isn't interesting, because nothing about that game is interesting. It is sonic being a very bad uninteresting mario game, and it isn't very good. There's nothing for people to aspire about in that game, even the modding the community gave up on lost world. But they wont stop modding sonic 06 levels in generations, because that game was actually interesting, bad very bad , horribly shitty bad. But interesting. Sonic lost world commits a sin, that some would argue is much worse than actually being bad, being meh, and more importantly being nothing. Because when somethings bad, you can look bad laugh , critique have memories of it, strive to do better. But when something is meh, when you are bad, but not interesting then no one will care about you at all. Your work just goes into the ether. 

I will always compare 06 favorably to lost world, because despite being surrounded in shit , there are things about that game that are actually interesting. Lost world has nothing, It is the very definition of a " Nothing video game" . 

[Soniman]

if I had to choose between driving a car on a empty road for hours and traveling that same road but instead theres tons of potholes and oncomming traffic id pick the later. Yeah one road is technically more "eventful" but its not worth the pain that can be avoided with the uneventful road

[Wraith]

I'm starting to think what Lost World was trying to do will become more appreciated as time goes on.

And that's a shame because it sucks

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Soniman said:

if I had to choose between driving a car on a empty road for hours and traveling that same road but instead theres tons of potholes and oncomming traffic id pick the later. Yeah one road is technically more "eventful" but its not worth the pain that can be avoided with the uneventful road

But this isn't a road, its a video game. Its entertainment, its media, you can can find things fun entertainment thats bad. As in comparison to your pothole example that would lead to potential car repair bills. 

Lost world is bad , uninteresting entertainment. And empty road implies its good and ok, No, lost world is uninteresting and bad. 

[Kintor]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I can?

Sonic 06, aside from the humans... I actually find to be way more thematically interesting than sonic lost world. Something that people don't give 06 credit for because they were to busy being mauled, is the actually visually interesting level designs. I found them more visually interesting than they were to play through on account of control reasons but they were actually interesting on that note. Despite just modeling himself after shadow's visage, I still like him more than every single member of the deadly 6. The deadly six, much like the rest of lost world, leaned way too far in the other direction, seeming like they were aping mario and dream works in terms of visual design and lost its identity in the process. I don't like how the levels are designs and kind of nothing, I don't like the characters, I don't like how the new characters look , I don't care or like what they are about. Its game thats visually and thematically completely uninteresting with mediocre gameplay on top of that. 

You know why people get mad at sonic 06, and even Shadows game. Because they wanted those games to be good,when they played them they saw things that could have actually been interesting and they failed. That isn't to say that there aren't a slew of people justifyably mad at those games being bad, i'm one of them. But I feel like that also plays a part of it, that's why you get people asking for 06 to be done again but good, because what they saw, with those bad elements removed was a nugget of a interesting idea with some cool characters. 

Sonic lost world has none of that, people don't care about sonic lost world, because it isn't as bad as 06, people don't care about sonic lost world, because it isn't interesting, because nothing about that game is interesting. It is sonic being a very bad uninteresting mario game, and it isn't very good. There's nothing for people to aspire about in that game, even the modding the community gave up on lost world. But they wont stop modding sonic 06 levels in generations, because that game was actually interesting, bad very bad , horribly shitty bad. But interesting. Sonic lost world commits a sin, that some would argue is much worse than actually being bad, being meh, and more importantly being nothing. Because when somethings bad, you can look bad laugh , critique have memories of it, strive to do better. But when something is meh, when you are bad, but not interesting then no one will care about you at all. Your work just goes into the ether. 

I will always compare 06 favorably to lost world, because despite being surrounded in shit , there are things about that game that are actually interesting. Lost world has nothing, It is the very definition of a " Nothing video game" . 

Yes, exactly. For all its faults Sonic 06 was still a game I was hyped to play in the lead-up to release. Even knowing the negative reception I still bought a copy of Sonic 06 when I got a 360 in 2008, to kill some time while  I waited for Sonic Unleashed. However, Lost World was a different story entirely, I never had any interest in playing that game. Even with Lost World being released on PC and offered for huge discounts on Steam I still haven't bought it and I don't think that I ever will. Lost World is just so boring and nothing like an enjoyable 3D Sonic game, it's just a flat and uninspired Mario clone. For that I will always despise Lost World's lack of vision, even as  I can begrudging respect what Sonic 06 sought to achieve.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

I'm starting to think what Lost World was trying to do will become more appreciated as time goes on.

And that's a shame because it sucks

Lost world is not the mgs2 of sonic

[Salamander]

I wouldn't say it's giving any real credit to '06 to call it entertaining if the entertainment is not in any way on the level the designers intended.  With that said, I would agree that, while '06 tried hard and failed, Lost World simply didn't try hard enough.  And that is why nobody will remember Lost World, while '06 will continue to make a laughing stock of the franchise for years to come. 

[Soniman]

9 hours ago, Kintor said:

Yes, exactly. For all its faults Sonic 06 was still a game I was hyped to play in the lead-up to release. Even knowing the negative reception I still bought a copy of Sonic 06 when I got a 360 in 2008, to kill some time while  I waited for Sonic Unleashed. However, Lost World was a different story entirely, I never had any interest in playing that game. Even with Lost World being released on PC and offered for huge discounts on Steam I still haven't bought it and I don't think that I ever will. Lost World is just so boring and nothing like an enjoyable 3D Sonic game, it's just a flat and uninspired Mario clone. For that I will always despise Lost World's lack of vision, even as  I can begrudging respect what Sonic 06 sought to achieve.

the fact you never even played it doesnt exactly help your case.

Quote

Lost world is bad , uninteresting entertainment. And empty road implies its good and ok, No, lost world is uninteresting and bad. 

no, it implies average and unoffensive, neither good or bad

The way this fandom's hatred of a mediocre game for being mediocre is something ive never seen before to the point where people are disappointed it wasnt worse is baffling

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Lost world is not the mgs2 of sonic

Neither is '06. Maybe you saw some value in it, but the only enjoyment I've gotten out of that steaming load is through mockery. Lost World isn't a good game, but I had way more unironic fun with it than '06 could ever provide me.

[Wraith]

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Lost world is not the mgs2 of sonic

I've seen people salvage the good ideas from worse games, idk. 

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, FFWF said:

I wouldn't say it's giving any real credit to '06 to call it entertaining if the entertainment is not in any way on the level the designers intended.  With that said, I would agree that, while '06 tried hard and failed, Lost World simply didn't try hard enough.  And that is why nobody will remember Lost World, while '06 will continue to make a laughing stock of the franchise for years to come. 

Fair, i'm just making thing argument that failing to try can be just as bad as trying and failing. 

 

1 minute ago, Soniman said:

the fact you never even played it doesnt help your case. This fandom's hatred of a mediocre game being mediocre is something ive never seen before

People hate nothing things for being nothing all the time. Hell the idea wasn't even from me, I got the idea of matt from the super best friends. Who often says that he will continue to enjoy and remember something that tries to make him feel something that one that doesn't make him feel anything at all. 

Its a pretty common sentiment and not really unique to sonic. To give an example , Skyward Sword. 

But then again, I would actually call this game mediorce, I would call the gameplay barely mediorcre, but in combination with the story, level design, visual design and everything else in that game, its very much a bad video game. Its just a bad uninteresting video game. 

[Kintor]

6 minutes ago, Soniman said:

The way this fandom's hatred of a mediocre game for being mediocre is something ive never seen before to the point where people are disappointed it wasnt worse

It's because the Sonic fanbase deserved better then a mediocre Mario clone. Especially after Sonic Generations promised a better future. Lost World just lacks that spark of ambition that defines a true Sonic game, for better or worse.