Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Shadowlax]

7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Neither is '06.

No, never suggested that. 

Because MGS2 retroactively for many people became the best metal gear game. 

Sonic 06 will always be bad, I just think its better than lost world. Isn't  high bar, but that's how I feel. 

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Maybe you saw some value in it, but the only enjoyment I've gotten out of that steaming load is through mockery. Lost World isn't a good game, but I had way more unironic fun with it than '06 could ever provide me.

That's fair, I can't tell you how to feel. 

My argument was against the idea that it couldn't be compared. Just because something didn't try, doesn't mean it can't be just as bad or worse than thing that failed. 

[Meta77]

7 minutes ago, Soniman said:

the fact you never even played it doesnt exactly help your case.

no, it implies average and unoffensive, neither good or bad

The way this fandom's hatred of a mediocre game for being mediocre is something ive never seen before to the point where people are disappointed it wasnt worse

I agree on the knowing 06 was not going to be a hit but the hype i had leading to it from all the trailers was outstanding. For lost world it sits under my couch with spiders i think as what it tried simply did not work.........................speaking of didnt 06 hit the best sellers list on the 360

[JosepHenry]

So... Back to Forces? No? Okay, I won't... Force... you... That was unintended. At first.

Who is the being mo-capped by the guy behind Nakamura? I looks like a pose Silver would do, but is really him? I doubt is Classic Sonic, though.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

It's really sad when people get to the point of trying to drag Lost World down to 06's level.

Lost World on a technical and conceptional level is no where near as broken as 06.

[Soniman]

7 minutes ago, Kintor said:

It's because the Sonic fanbase deserved better then a mediocre Mario clone. Especially after Sonic Generations promised a better future. Lost World just lacks that spark of ambition that defines a true Sonic game, for better or worse.

People said this same shit about Gens and Colors back in the day so im not exactly ready to go on this merry go round again for the latesy entry 

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People hate nothing things for being nothing all the time. Hell the idea wasn't even from me, I got the idea of matt from the super best friends. Who often says that he will continue to enjoy and remember something that tries to make him feel something that one that doesn't make him feel anything at all. 

if I played something that didnt offend me I tend to prefer it to a mostly bad experience????

[Meta77]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

It's really sad when people get to the point of trying to drag Lost World down to 06's level.

Lost World on a technical and conceptional level is no where near as broken as 06.

I do not think anyone is bringing it down. I just think more people were hyped for what 06 could have been when we all first saw it. Before we knew it was broken. I do not recall no where near any hype regarding lost world and its goofy trailers.

[Captain Fun]

I don't see how creating something so embarrassingly shit but "ambitious" is better than creating something that is, at worst, forgettable. Like, oh man, that time I was savagely beaten by my father was so much more exciting than the kind of flat 7up I sort of enjoyed. 

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

It's really sad when people get to the point of trying to drag Lost World down to 06's level.

Lost World on a technical and conceptional level is no where near as broken as 06.

It doesn't have to be brought down, its already there. You talk about conceptual, but the visual and character design in that game is uninspired and actually worse than sonic 06. The only part of sonic 06 that I would compare to lost world is the humans, i've always hated humans in sonic and have a bias against them, I admit that. Not to mention the nothing story, and the nothing level design along with the visually uninteresting level design that game has. It isn't as technically broke, but its still uninteresting and bad. And at least sonic 06 was actually interesting in some parts. Unlike lost world, which is just bad and uninteresting. 

No one brought it down into the shit pile, that game sat in the shit pile and decided it didn't want to leave. 

[Kintor]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I agree on the knowing 06 was not going to be a hit but the hype i had leading to it from all the trailers was outstanding. For lost world it sits under my couch with spiders i think as what it tried simply did not work.........................speaking of didnt 06 hit the best sellers list on the 360

Yep:

It seems that Sonic 06 did quite well for itself despite the negative reception.

Just now, Soniman said:

People said this same shit about Gens and Colors back in the day so im not exactly ready to go on this merry go round again for the latesy entry 

The merry go round analogy doesn't work. Think of the line from Sonic Unleashed to Sonic Generations as the metaphorical road to a better place, both for the Sonic fanbase and the Sonic franchise. Conversly, Lost World is that wrong turn in the road that gets you stranded at a boring town in the middle of nowhere.

[Milo]

As I pointed out a while back, Sonic 2006 didn't even surpass one million copies in its first two quarters on Sega's IR reports. For comparison's sake, Sonic Unleashed and even Shadow the Hedgehog both sold over two million copies each in a similar timeframe. The notion that Sonic 2006 was a commercial success in spite of its bad reception and quality is a myth, the Xbox Platinum (Family) Hits label the game received is a meaningless metric to its sales performance.

[Shadowlax]

9 minutes ago, Captain Fun said:

I don't see how creating something so embarrassingly shit but "ambitious" is better than creating something that is, at worst, forgettable. Like, oh man, that time I was savagely beaten by my father was so much more exciting than the kind of flat 7up I sort of enjoyed. 

Well one thing, child abuse isn't comparable to people finding elements of a sonic game fun. ... SO you know, calm the fuck down. 

But two, i'm not saying sonic 06 is a good game. I'm not saying you have to like it, i'm not even saying it was ambitious that just because it tried something it deserves some merit. DmC:Devil may cry tried something and it deserves to be in the garbage. But what I am saying is that despite its flaws, I like things about sonic 06. I like silver, I like mephilies, I like how the levels look, I like the idea of a time travel plot, I like shadow's character in that game and its arguably the best shadow has ever been. I don't like anything about lost world, except the music. But its sonic, so 9/10 times the music is going to be fantastic. So I can't even count that, thats a given, I would have been more surprised if it pulled a brotherhood and the music was ass. 

But my point is, its not about being ambitious and avant garde and whatever pretentious term you want to imply i'm giving to sonic 06. Its the notion that I personally can point to sonic 06 see some good shit in it and go " that's good, that's geniouly cool" . I can't do that with lost world, it isn't as broken as sonic 06, but it has things I like in it, lost world actually has nothing .

[Solly]

I'm going to try and throw my two cents in without making even more walls of text that nobody asked for.

@Shadowlax: You're entitled to your opinion. I didn't mean to give the impression that you're not allowed to think 06 is the better game, or the game that held your interest more, or whatever. When I said that Sonic 06 can't be compared to Lost World favorably, I was speaking in reference to Kintor's claim that Lost World was "an appalling stain on the franchise." Whichever game you prefer, I think 06 was a lot more harmful overall just because of the state it was released in, and the legacy it's created. 

Also I feel like the notion that Lost World "didn't try" is, frankly, kind of ridiculous. 

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

You talk about conceptual, but the visual and character design in that game is uninspired and actually worse than sonic 06.

How do you talk about '06 having better character design when it gave us Silver the hedgehog, Eggman's bronze nipples, double-dark Sonic, and the most generic fire demons ever seen.

4 minutes ago, Kintor said:

It seems that Sonic 06 did quite well for itself despite the negative reception.

That's because it took some time for people to realize the series was dead and rotting inside.

[Kintor]

2 minutes ago, Gabe said:

As I pointed out a while back, Sonic 2006 only sold 870K copies in its first two quarters. For comparison's sake, Sonic Unleashed and even Shadow the Hedgehog vastly outsold it by roughly 1.5 million copies in a similar timeframe. The notion that it was commercial success is a complete myth, the Xbox Platinum (Family) Hits label the game received is meaningless metric to its sales performance.

Hey, Sonic 06 still sold better then Lost World. With Lost World only selling between 640k-710 in it's first year. Presumably, most of Lost World's sales were also from the 3DS and not the WiiU version.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

How do you talk about '06 having better character design when it gave us Silver the hedgehog, Eggman's bronze nipples, double-dark Sonic, and the most generic fire demons ever seen.

 

I like silvers design, and I already mention i hate the humans in sonic anyway. That includes eggman, I hate him less, but the redesign falls in line with " I hate humans in sonic anyway". as for the fire demons, or the " Not black arms, they totally aren't black arms, we totally didn't have a continuation of shadows gameplot in this game" monsters, I still like those than deadly 06, I like the Gun robots more than deadly 6. 

[Soniman]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

I like silvers design, and I already mention i hate the humans in sonic anyway. That includes eggman, I hate him less, but the redesign falls in line with " I hate humans in sonic anyway". as for the fire demons, or the " Not black arms, they totally aren't black arms, we totally didn't have a continuation of shadows gameplot in this game" monsters, I still like those than deadly 06, I like the Gun robots more than deadly 6. 

you realize the D6 arent the only enemies in SLW right? Its mainly badniks, you know, enemies that fit with the Sonic asthetic?

 

[Milo]

10 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Hey, Sonic 06 still sold better then Lost World. With Lost World only selling between 640k-710 in it's first year. Presumably, most of Lost World's sales were also from the 3DS and not the WiiU version.

That's...not really the main point of my post. I wasn't trying to speak in defense of Lost World in any vein compared to Sonic 2006.

With that said, 710K (second quarter results) is...what, around one hundred thousand copies less than what Sonic 2006 did? It's not like it's a major victory on 2006's behalf. It's like arguing over whether Sonic 2006 or Boom: Rise of Lyric is the more broken game.

[Shadowlax]

4 minutes ago, Solly said:

I'm going to try and throw my two cents in without making even more walls of text that nobody asked for.

@Shadowlax: You're entitled to your opinion. I didn't mean to give the impression that you're not allowed to think 06 is the better game, or the game that held your interest more, or whatever. When I said that Sonic 06 can't be compared to Lost World favorably, I was speaking in reference to Kintor's claim that Lost World was "an appalling stain on the franchise." Whichever game you prefer, I think 06 was a lot more harmful overall just because of the state it was released in, and the legacy it's created. 

I feel like that's fair, and the truth. No one is going to remember lost world... I hope. I hop that doesn't make a bad game resurgence down the line. I hope its not like DMC2 where people collectively re-remember how bad it is because something so bad comes along with have to now reevaluate how we feel about every bad sonic game. 

4 minutes ago, Solly said:

Also I feel like the notion that Lost World "didn't try" is, frankly, kind of ridiculous. 

II agree with you on this, because they didn't. They put effort in that game, the musical composers sure as hell put a tremendous effort into that game. Someone design characters, levels , someone wrote dialogue for that game. There were scenario's directed for that game. There was effrort. 

But their efforts culminated in the air around the game that they didn't try. That for many, that game was nothing. And unfortunately sometimes that's what happens, you tell your friends " hey i'm going to something cool" and they go " ... you weren't actually trying right :" but you actually tried really hard. 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 hours ago, Soniman said:

People said this same shit about Gens and Colors back in the day so im not exactly ready to go on this merry go round again for the latesy entry 

Pfft and I even remember when people foolishly pointed at Colors and screamed "Mario clone!" That was also an equally dumb phase.

2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I do not recall no where near any hype regarding lost world and its goofy trailers.

Potential for selective memory and bias aside, you do realize that thanks to 06, Sonic games have had much more trouble getting nearly as much indubitable hype so by default, regardless of what you thought of the trailers, no duh games after 06 didn't get as much insane hype as the game that made the series into a flammable media target.

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

It doesn't have to be brought down, its already there. You talk about conceptual, but the visual and character design in that game is uninspired and actually worse than sonic 06.

"You serious?"

Naw, I mean seriously brah! I get liking 06 and all man, but trying to claim that kind of statement.  Well, let's take a look: 06's visuals were color dulled, rather boring and man those humans designs absolutely shat on whatever the Adventure games had going for them! Sonic and company too were looking worse for wear to boot. No denying that 06 in the conceptual and visual departments hosted a big departure from the series' usual style and tone.

Lost World, visuals-wise is comparable to the classic era, hell, has throwbacks galore to the classic era. And Sonic 's model has so much more life breathed into him there than his stiff puppet like model animations in 06's cutscenes and gameplay, let's be honest.

There's no shame in admitting that a game made years after 06 had plenty of time, upgrades in technology, and y'know more love and care in the actual development cycle than 06's, had it in the bag to make a more vibrant and lively looking game than 06.....even if we didn't factor in how content-bankrupt 06 became thanks to its rushed development among oh so many over problems.

[Kintor]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

That's because it took some time for people to realize the series was dead and rotting inside.

Oh please, rotting like a mere corpse is for amateurs.

As a series it's most accurate to say that the Sonic franchise is an unstoppable and eternal lich lord:

You can't kill that which has already achieved a state of immortality through undeath!

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

I like silvers design, and I already mention i hate the humans in sonic anyway. That includes eggman, I hate him less, but the redesign falls in line with " I hate humans in sonic anyway". as for the fire demons, or the " Not black arms, they totally aren't black arms, we totally didn't have a continuation of shadows gameplot in this game" monsters, I still like those than deadly 06, I like the Gun robots more than deadly 6. 

I honestly still like the 'realistic' design of Eggman's badniks in Sonic 06. It was something different and cutting-edge while still being recognisably similiar to what has been created in the past. Plus that redesigned version of the Egg Carrier was simply beautiful.

[Captain Fun]

10 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Well one thing, child abuse isn't comparable to people finding elements of a sonic game fun. ... SO you know, calm the fuck down. 

But two, i'm not saying sonic 06 is a good game. I'm not saying you have to like it, i'm not even saying it was ambitious that just because it tried something it deserves some merit. DmC:Devil may cry tried something and it deserves to be in the garbage. But what I am saying is that despite its flaws, I like things about sonic 06. I like silver, I like mephilies, I like how the levels look, I like the idea of a time travel plot, I like shadow's character in that game and its arguably the best shadow has ever been. I don't like anything about lost world, except the music. But its sonic, so 9/10 times the music is going to be fantastic. So I can't even count that, thats a given, I would have been more surprised if it pulled a brotherhood and the music was ass. 

But my point is, its not about being ambitious and avant garde and whatever pretentious term you want to imply i'm giving to sonic 06. Its the notion that I personally can point to sonic 06 see some good shit in it and go " that's good, that's geniouly cool" . I can't do that with lost world, it isn't as broken as sonic 06, but it has things I like in it, lost world actually has nothing .

I am calm.

I wasn't challenging your opinion on Sonic 06 or whatever redeeming factors you thought it had. I just disagree with this idea that memorably awful is better than forgettable. Sonic 06 was "memorable." I remember it a great deal more than Lost World. The gaming community at large also remembers it vividly, along with Shadow the Hedgehog. Those games helped make Sonic a joke. They are the appalling stains on the franchise, not Lost World

[JosepHenry]

What do you like or dislike what you want. It doesn't mean that we need to agree.

But Sonic '06 was a terrible game no doubt, while people didn't care about Lost World.

I hate Lost World art style, but still, it is more Sonicy than '06.

 

[Soniman]

8 hours ago, Captain Fun said:

I am calm.

I wasn't challenging your opinion on Sonic 06 or whatever redeeming factors you thought it had. I just disagree with this idea that memorably awful is better than forgettable. Sonic 06 was "memorable." I remember it a great deal more than Lost World. The gaming community at large also remembers it vividly, along with Shadow the Hedgehog. Those games helped make Sonic a joke. They are the appalling stains on the franchise, not Lost World

Reminder that SLW has a average 63 on metacritic and so attributing it to Sonic's second downfall is nonsense, Boom which scored WORSE then 06 is a much more belivable target dont you think?

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Captain Fun said:

I wasn't challenging your opinion on Sonic 06 or whatever redeeming factors you thought it had. I just disagree with this idea that memorably awful is better than forgettable. Sonic 06 was "memorable." I remember it a great deal more than Lost World. The gaming community at large also remembers it vividly, along with Shadow the Hedgehog. Those games helped make Sonic a joke. They are the appalling stains on the franchise, not Lost World

Sonic 06 for all its fault was still gained a lot of attention for the Sonic franchise through its notoriety. Sometimes people can even see parts its faults to understand what Sonic Team was trying to achieve and what the game could have been. Lost World though is worse because it's a game so bland and mediocre that it doesn't even deserve to be remembered as a notable failure. Which is really what's most damning about Lost World, it marked the point when many gamers figured they could just forget about the Sonic franchise. An argument about the merit of Sonic 06 is still a conversation with  the rest of the gamming community but Lost world doesn't have that conversation just cruel silence.

[Wraith]

I haven't seen Lost World get much abuse outside of Sonic fans myself, and this is coming from someone who really doesn't like it.