Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[blazefan519]

If there was going to be Sonic maker, I wonder what the styles would be. Classic, Advance, Rush, Sonic 4? Those where the 2D games that came to mind.

[Dr. Detective]

To answer the posed question in brief, no, I'm not particularly happy with the direction the story and characters have taken since 2010. Even though the ones that came before weren't perfect, the sense that they were at the very least trying to feel like adventures that utilized the characters to a reasonable degree from game to game was something I appreciated. Any ridicule towards what they did is something I attribute to it not being at it's best rather than it not being needed at all.

Despite what I hear a lot of people say, as of 2017, there's more Sonic media out there that both has a huge reliance on and an inescapable amount of content that focuses on narrative and characters. 4 cartoons, an anime, an OVA, a comic book series with hundreds of issues, and a good chunk of the games themselves have all come into existence and are apart of the chemical make-up of the series' history now.

So yeah, I do consider it an important detail that I wish to see improved upon. 

[PickleBrows]

3 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

I actually was thinking about that for a while. But since Nintendo did it first then I guess Sega was Too Slow.

Actually you'd be surprised:

Part of the now defunct Play SEGA website. I've no idea how fleshed out the tools were but sure enough they have indeed at least made some "attempt" at it.

[Jango]

And lol @ the notion that S3K and SCD are story focused. Are we even talking about the same games?

 

Except you're wrong, they are. I wonder WHICH game you're thinking of. Maybe Sonic 2, I guess? Now that's just a bunch of levels to play for no reason. How do you go from a Casino to a Hill Top? Even the level that would've added actual story, was removed (Hidden Palace was the place Naka inteaded Sonic to "learn" how to go Super). So yeah.

[SonicDude]

7 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

So basically Super Sonic Maker?

Given how many folks have actually asked for one of those, this is an unironically good idea, innit. Oops.

[Mark1]

Hub worlds I'm generally indifferent with on the condition that they provide a simple (and ideally fun) solution from Point A to Point B and not have me get lost along the way. 

The worst offender (and most obvious dig at in this message  ) is none other than Sonic 06, that was the worst I've seen in any game I've ever player. Not an exaggeration either. 

Sonic Unleashed probably could've done without them either, that was another component of the game that wasn't well done either. Objective wasn't clear, missions were boring and controls were awful. It's not good practise to slow Sonic down to walking pace to talk to random NPCs. Or have poor pre level hubs which boost style gameplay was definitely not made for.

Sonic Generations has probably done it best so far despite its simplistic nature. It was only there to really connect from level to level and play side missions.

[Kintor]

9 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Okay put the cinematic debacle behind and although we have already discussed this a ton; Are you happy with the current direction the series has taken since 2010 when it comes to story and characters? Would you rather it change? Do you even care about the story and characters in the Sonic universe at all or do you only care about gameplay? Would you be okay with never seeing the other characters again? Should we go the extra step and just remove all semblance of dialogue and plot altogether even that of Sonic and Eggman? 

Personally, I think that story has always been more important to the Sonic franchise then some people give it credit for. The hardware limitations of the 16-bit era generally prevent more complex storytelling, outside RPGs and the rare 'digital comic' like Snatcher on the Mega CD. Nevertheless, Sega did everything they could to expand and enrich the Sonic universe in a variety of places; the game manuals contain more of the story, as do a whole host of sonic related cartoons, comics and books created alongside the games in the 16-bit era.

It wasn't until the Dreamcast and Sonic Adventure that Sega was at last able to integrate a more complex story directly into a Sonic game but I see it as a natural extension of what has already existed in the Sonic franchise. To that end, I'd like to see Sonic Forces placing a greater emphasis on storytelling, compared to Generations and Colours. Sonic Unleashed set a good standard for storytelling in the modern era and I think that with Sonic Forces darker and more epic tone we can at least see a return to form as story is one again valued as a central part of the Sonic franchise.

Assuming of course that Pontac and Gaff are nowhere to be seen…

[RictalRose0]

8 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

If there was going to be Sonic maker, I wonder what the styles would be. Classic, Advance, Rush, Sonic 4? Those where the 2D games that came to mind.

There could actually be two of them. A Sonic Classic maker and an Advanced one. And i'm sure they would do great! The problem is that knowing Sega, they would probably get too comfortable with that formula and make every game for the next 10 years a level maker game lol. Which is why I made that post mocking it. 

[Dejimon11]

11 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

So basically Super Sonic Maker?

Given how many folks have actually asked for one of those, this is an unironically good idea, innit. Oops.

Didn't SEGA kinda do something similar to that on steam last year? 

[Tracker_TD]

Just now, Dejimon11 said:

Didn't SEGA kinda do something similar to that on steam last year? 

Yeah, the ROM hacking thing is pretty similar I suppose! Plus the aforementioned PlaySEGA one, too. 

[Mark1]

To add to my previous post, overall yeah I'm pleased with the approach Sega are taking with Sonic ever since Colours. That game felt like the first 3D Sonic in a very long time (probably ever, Sonic Adventure 1+2 felt buggy and good at best) to feel polished. And fun in some areas too.

If they continue this approach (and don't rush out products like Lost World again - that game was, sorry, lost potential due to releasing it in time for Christmas. You could see the potential of the game through some levels) then yeah I am happy. If we expand it to beyond Sonic Team then not sure yet - Sonic Boom was a complete dud right from the initial reveal in my eyes. First ever Sonic game in the past 15 years I've completely ignored. But on the other hand...Sonic Mania exists...

[The Deleter]

Has anyone brought up how the gameplay seems to have the double jump from Lost World in it, right at the end of the footage?

Because if that's all we're getting for a secondary air movement move for the game, rather than an air dash, then I am much more interested in how the platforming sections in the game will turn out.

In Generations, the air dash killed all your momentum and had a set distance, which was just a platforming killjoy, and colors has a double jump that was used for evil itself, making all the platforming 2X as tall as it needed to be and extremely clunky, requiring you to get the maximum height out of it most of the time.

But if there's anything Lost World did right, it's the platforming, and the way the double jump was used. Near every platform was spaced high or far enough to reach with a normal jump, ensuring that it's flow is never interrupted with the basic speed of the game, and there was enough of a height leeway in place to make sure anything but perfect jumps didn't mean outright failure. And when the double jump was being considered with the height distances, it's nearly always used for only optimal, platform-skipping routes. Combine all that with near exact jump height arcs, and you get some really snappy and satisfying platforming to pull off:

Not having your momentum immediately drained is icing on the cake, especially for a boost game, but if the platforming is handled anything like that in the 2D sections, just with more speed involved, sign me up.

 

[SonicDude]

Honestly they should have just made Sonic 2006 2.

Look at the love and care they put into the facial expressions of Sonic and Tails. 

Back to Forces, I wonder if Modern Sonic has his slide or if he can Spin Dash/roll. Which do you prefer?

[Dejimon11]

4 minutes ago, SonicDude said:

Honestly they should have just made Sonic 2006 2.

Look at the love and care they put into the facial expressions of Sonic and Tails. 

 

I honestly couldn't tell if you were being serious or not

[Mark1]

3 minutes ago, SonicDude said:

Honestly they should have just made Sonic 2006 2.

Look at the love and care they put into the facial expressions of Sonic and Tails. 

Back to Forces, I wonder if Modern Sonic has his slide or if he can Spin Dash/roll. Which do you prefer?

Sorry really going to disagree here. Those models were (in my eyes) poorly made and the expressions have been made better in later games like Generations.

Like this. They were well designed here. Especially Classic Sonic with his serious look

[RictalRose0]

That's the joke dude.

[DonWaffleleven]

12 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

To add to my previous post, overall yeah I'm pleased with the approach Sega are taking with Sonic ever since Colours. That game felt like the first 3D Sonic in a very long time (probably ever, Sonic Adventure 1+2 felt buggy and good at best) to feel polished. And fun in some areas too.

Are we talking the same Colours that's 80% blocky 2D platforming where half of Sonic's move-set is locked to context sensitive sections & power-ups? Because that doesn't sound like a Sonic game to me, polish or no polish.

[Kintor]

13 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I honestly couldn't tell if you were being serious or not

The thing about Sonic 06 is that it's overall art style is still actually visually appealing, especially for an early PS3/360 game.

I still remember this initial trailer:

I still get hyped up when I see this. If we could've actually played this version Sonic 06 it would've been hailed as one of the greatest Sonic games of all time and a worthy successor to the Adventure era.

Overall, I still think that Sonic games should be aimed closer to the tone in this trailer, rather then what we've been getting ever since Sonic Colours. A mistake made over a decade ago shouldn't prevent future Sonic games from embracing bigger and more epic stories one again.

[Diogenes]

39 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Dio, how do you even maintain your sanity?

lol if you think I've been sane regarding this series or its fanbase in years

37 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Let's talk about hub worlds in Sonic games. Do you like it, do you hate it?

I'm really mixed on them, honestly. I think there might be some value in having them if they're done right, but I also don't think any Sonic game has yet, and I'm not exactly sure what the right kind of hubs for Sonic would be. SA's and '06's suffer from being big and empty; aside from the occasional emblem/medal and talking to random NPC #12 they end up feeling like padding between levels. Unleashed's are smaller and more content-dense, but because of that (and the extreme nature of the boost gameplay) they don't feel natural to move around in. The town sections restrict your movement outright and the level entry sections just too small and undirected for a moveset designed around moving in a straight line at ~340 m/s. And even with the smaller size, they still run into the same problem of feeling like filler between the levels, something you want to rush through to get at the next proper stage.

Hubs need to be someplace interesting enough to chill out in and fool around with some optional content, but more than just the design of the hubs, you need a game with the right sort of pacing and...maybe "philosophy"?...that doing so feels like a proper part of the game and not something in conflict with it. So to get hubs to work right in Sonic might take a different approach to the series than any we've seen before.

[Mark1]

3 minutes ago, DonWaffleleven said:

Are we talking the same Colours that's 80% blocky 2D platforming where half of Sonic's move-set is locked to context sensitive sections & power-ups? Because that doesn't sound like a Sonic game to me, polish or no polish.

Not saying that was perfect either, a good game at best. But man is it more fun than previous 3D games. Gens is more fun for me due to the reasons you actually say. Less blocky platforming specifically. Not perfect either, but better. 

For the record I refer to the overall tone of these later games too. Simple or not, they aren't convoluted messes with plot holes with other games.

[Osmium]

I agree with Dio, never been much a fan of the hub worlds in Sonic games anyway. They always feel like such a pace-breaker and honestly a waste of time to me. I'd rather beat a stage and see where that leads me instead of having to fuck around in a town for a bit before going to the next stage. 

[JosepHenry]

Optional hubs maybe? Sounds really interesting.

Like, you can go through all stages like SA2, but after beating a level you unlock stuff in the optional hub world, like an extra? Is there a game that done this before?

[DarkRula]

I can quote from my idea for a game, but what I had in mind was numerous Chao Gardens as the hubs, with a hotel or some such to explore. I highly doubt it would work in the way I had it planned for any game Sonic Team makes where no such pet-simulator side-game exists.
Either way, the idea was to have these areas where interactions with people could happen, who react to what is happening within the story. While you would initially get to levels by exiting at certain points from the hubs, but a quick level access would be added later down the line. In all honesty, I feel it wouldn't work outside of my idea anyway [which centred around the chao as a major plot point] so I'd rather just have no hubs.

I did like how Adventure still allowed a characters full moveset within the hubs though.

[The Deleter]

Unleashed has no hub for Eggmanland until after you beat it. Don't think that's what people want hub worlds for if they're merely unlockable npcs, but it has been done before, in a way.

[Kintor]

8 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

I agree with Dio, never been much a fan of the hub worlds in Sonic games. They always feel like such a pace-breaker and honestly a waste of time to me. I'd rather beat a stage and see where that leads me instead of having to fuck around in a town for a bit before going to the next stage. 

The thing about Sonic Adventure is that it was designed as a technical showcase for the Dreamcast, throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the game to display all of the Dreamcast's different feature. You can especially see this in Station Square if you had an internet connection or at least you're still able to download the free 'DLC' available from Dreamcast fan sites today. Station Square actually changes slightly for special events Sega had prepared; there's a launch party version of Station Square, a Christmas version of Station Square etc. All to show how Sonic games (and other Dreamcast games) can become persistent and dynamic digital worlds thanks to the power of the internet.

So, I suppose the lesson to take away for Sonic Forces is that new hubworlds should be interesting and dynamic. The ability to see in-game changes depending on the time of year, along with extra downloadable events in the future, would give hubworlds a lot more life and make them a great addition to future Sonic games.