Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[RictalRose0]

That's probably never happening though. I'm not asking for some 100+ pages script either and tons of character depth or whatever. I just want the other characters to be used and for them to be integrated into the story and have more that five minutes of screentime and like, 10 lines.

[JosepHenry]

Oh, I guess that's still possible.

It aaall depends on execution, or else '06 happens.

[RictalRose0]

06's disaster was a myriad of things though, not just story. Rushed development, team's being split, technical difficulties, budget difficulties, etc. Hell the story of that game was probably not even completed by the time the game was released, I doubt even the scrip had gone through a full revision given how rushed everything was. And caring too much about the 06 backlash is exactly what led Sonic Team into not using the other characters or even trying to do some basic level storytelling. They should probably let go already. Which seeming as how they trust the same guy responsible for 06 (Nakamura) as producer of Forces then they probably have started to really put it behind them. Which is good.

[Kellan]

48 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

There are certainly some cinematic set-pieces or sections in some of the games, and it certainly does it more than, say, Mario; however this isn't enough to qualify it as a bonafide cinematic series ala Uncharted.

Why not? Because you say so? What is the threshold a game has to cross in order to be cinematic enough to be considered cinematic? If we had some more Uncharted quick-time events, would that make it cinematic enough? If we got rid of the hub worlds and made the games completely linear, would that make it cinematic enough?

You keep treating your line between cinematic and not-cinematic like it's some obvious thing that you shouldn't have to explain, but I'm still not entirely sure what your argument is.

[SonicDude]

I prefer a non in your face story like Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I don't care what Cream the Rabbit is up to or how Big the Cat's day was. I just want to know what Eggman is up to and for it to feel badass trying to defeat him. I like Sonic more when he's alone/almost alone in some strange world, instead of it being like an anime show. If they made a 3D Sonic game with CD or even Sonic 1 vibes, just Sonic trying to defeat Eggman and Metal in some twisted, trippy dimension it would be awesome.

[Mark1]

Some games have a story told via the gameplay. Game companies generally have the role to tell a story via playing their game and having fun. Focusing on story first before making a game fun isn't going to lead to good end results.

A shining example is the latest Zelda title, exploring the lands is the main appeal behind the game - where you learn more about the world, gain new powers and find new places to attain even more abilities. The sense of discovery is how people learn more about what is going on. You find out more of what has happened in the past by taking on the challenges, defeating creative monsters, solving puzzles, etc. The fun appeal makes people enticed to learn more. 

Another example mentioned here already is Sonic 3 since, as discussed before, the story is there to make changes to the environment for Sonic and Tails to overcome new obstacles. Like Angel Island Zone or Carnival Night Zone. The story did not seem like the main focus when the game was initially made. Sonic Mania is pretty much going to follow the same routine and I'm excited for that. 

Sonic Forces (since this is its thread) I believe will follow the same routine as Sonic Generations of gameplay first (where the purpose of time travel was to revisit old zones). No idea what the main gimmick behind this game will be, but I strongly doubt it will be story focused either.

[Diogenes]

10 minutes ago, Kellan said:

Why not? Because you say so? What is the threshold a game has to cross in order to be cinematic enough to be considered cinematic? If we had some more Uncharted quick-time events, would that make it cinematic enough? If we got rid of the hub worlds and made the games completely linear, would that make it cinematic enough?

You keep treating your line between cinematic and not-cinematic like it's some obvious thing that you shouldn't have to explain, but I'm still not entirely sure what your argument is.

Consider it as a continuum then, with Sonic at the very low end.

[The Deleter]

Something cinematic typically means something close to the cinematic experience, I.e. A majority of non-interaction, like QuickTime events and cutscenes, yeah. Cinema doesn't derive from action in general, after all.

[Kuzu]

11 minutes ago, Kellan said:

Why not? Because you say so? What is the threshold a game has to cross in order to be cinematic enough to be considered cinematic? If we had some more Uncharted quick-time events, would that make it cinematic enough? If we got rid of the hub worlds and made the games completely linear, would that make it cinematic enough?

You keep treating your line between cinematic and not-cinematic like it's some obvious thing that you shouldn't have to explain, but I'm still not entirely sure what your argument is.

Gameplay and story in Sonic games, or rather platformers in general, or pretty segregated; the story is simply there as an excuse to justify the gameplay and most of the time, the levels themselves carry little significance on the actual narrative.

Think about it, most of everything you do in the levels of most story driven Sonic games doesn't actually have much effect on how the story plays out; Out running an Orca, blasting through City Escape, none of that has any effect on the cutscenes that come before or after aside from characters getting from A to B. That is not a cinematic game.

Most cinematic games integrate both and most of the time, you'll be essentially playing a cutscene. But the actions in levels have a direct consequence before or after the level is completed. Games like Uncharted, Infamous, and most Platinum games do this well.

 

[Blue Blood]

Dio, how do you even maintain your sanity? Your patience in these (all too frequent) dumb arguments is incredible. Just what is your secret?

No, Sonic is not a cinematic series. The series has always had it's moments of spectacle, and certain games have a bigger emphasis on story than others. But that's the extent of it. It's a platformer series that disperses a story between levels and occasionally puts brief story elements into the action. The gameplay always comes first. Forces clearly includes some context in the level we've seen, but it's still a far cry from being a "cinematic action adventure".

And lol @ the notion that S3K and SCD are story focused. Are we even talking about the same games?

[JosepHenry]

Sonic is not a cinematic series, can we move on?

 

Let's talk about hub worlds in Sonic games. Do you like it, do you hate it?

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Sonic is not a cinematic series, can we move on?

 

Let's talk about hub worlds in Sonic games. Do you like it, do you hate it?

I liked the Hub Worlds in Adventure and in Unleashed, so I'm fine with them coming back, just make sure that there aren't as bare and boring as 06's.

[JosepHenry]

I love the hub worlds from Unleashed, but the way how you enter the stages should be like Adventure.

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Dio, how do you even maintain your sanity? Your patience in these (all too frequent) dumb arguments is incredible. Just what is your secret?

Well me personally, I just like watching the world burn; think of watching the world's most satisfying trainwreck as it burns in a fiery explosion. That's how it feels reading this topic sometimes.

[Blue Blood]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Well me personally, I just like watching the world burn; think of watching the world's most satisfying trainwreck as it burns in a fiery explosion. That's how it feels reading this topic sometimes.

You're not Dio. 

 

love you tho

Regarding hubs, I like them for giving the world context, but no Sonic game has ever done them right. Whether they're disjointed from the action like in SA1 or 06, or messy and overbearing like Unleashed, I've really gone off the idea of including them at all. I am expecting something in vein of the White World in Forces though, which was dull but wholly inoffensive. Not sure what else they could do unless the make Classic Sonic playable in a 3D space, and that's never going to happen. 

[Kuzu]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

You're not Dio. 

love you tho

I could be an alternate account of is for all you know.

 

So uh Forces...it exists.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

I love the hub worlds from Unleashed, but the way how you enter the stages should be like Adventure.

Yeah, I liked how when you enter in the stages in Adventure it makes sense. Like going to the beach to go to Emerald Coast, going on the elevator to take you to Twinkle Park, and entering the door that takes you to Eggman's base. It was nice and more emmersive, while for Unleashed you just teleported.

[SonicDude]

I actually liked Sonic 06's hub worlds with the portals. It was just how ugly/generic looking Soleanna was that made it bad, and you know, the game in general. But it was fun exploring around the city, heading to the new city area and the forest. I remember an intriguing feeling when I first accessed Tropical Jungle and had to run over the water. Also the Kingdom Valley area had an epic feeling to it. If they could do it on a grander scale with more beautiful landscapes I'd love it.

[RictalRose0]

Okay put the cinematic debacle behind and although we have already discussed this a ton; Are you happy with the current direction the series has taken since 2010 when it comes to story and characters? Would you rather it change? Do you even care about the story and characters in the Sonic universe at all or do you only care about gameplay? Would you be okay with never seeing the other characters again? Should we go the extra step and just remove all semblance of dialogue and plot altogether even that of Sonic and Eggman? 

[SonicDude]

4 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Okay put the cinematic debacle behind and although we have already discussed this a ton; Are you happy with the current direction the series has taken since 2010 when it comes to story and characters? Would you rather it change? Do you even care about the story and characters in the Sonic universe or do you only care about gameplay? 

I only care about gameplay but if the game did also have a nice story then the cutscenes would make it feel like a larger experience. I just can't stand cheesy stuff like Sonic Colors, or when there are too many characters involved. I would rather no story than an annoying one basically. Even though you can just press start to skip, lol.

[RictalRose0]

The next step of Sonic Gaming: Sonic Simulator! You just go fast and Boost To Win till you reach the goal. The characters are there as assets but don't worry, there is practically no dialogue or story at all! Game journalists will love it! Also there's no levels, you have to make them yourself with our cost-effective level creator. Please hire me Sega.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, RictalRose0 said:

Okay put the cinematic debacle behind and although we have already discussed this a ton; Are you happy with the current direction the series has taken since 2010 when it comes to story and characters? Would you rather it change? Do you even care about the story and characters in the Sonic universe or do you only care about gameplay? 

Personally, after the writer change, I really didn't like where the series was headed. The plots became a lot more simplistic, which isn't bad mind you, but because the writing was terrible, I couldn't really take a lot of the games seriously. While gameplay should come first, I always like it when they both coincide together, which makes the game even better. Another problem that occurred was the lack of the other Sonic characters, and instead focused more on Sonic, Tails, and Eggman, with the occasional use of Amy and Knuckles. While that may be great to some, I was heavily disappointed by this. I loved the other characters and to see them only show up in side games really bummed me out. The fact that the Chaotix are back for Forces gives me hope that they'll integrate the other characters and make them useful again. 

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, RictalRose0 said:

The next step of Sonic Gaming: Sonic Simulator. You just go fast and Boost To Win till you reach the goal. The characters are there as assets but don't worry, there is practically no dialogue or story at all! Game journalists will love it! Also there's no levels, you have to make them yourself with our cost-effective level creator. Please hire me Sega.

So basically Super Sonic Maker?

Given how many folks have actually asked for one of those, this is an unironically good idea, innit. Oops.

[RictalRose0]

I actually was thinking about that for a while. But since Nintendo did it first then I guess Sega was Too Slow.

[Wraith]

Taxman could probably make a Sonic Maker too since all the remasters use his engine right?