The Fantastic Four (2015)

[Celestia]

The newest trailer has piqued my interest a little, but it still hasn't quite won me over. Like, there's some cool moments, and there's a few concepts that I like a lot--for example, the heroes not easily embracing the fact they suddenly have superpowers, that has potential for character development and interaction--but...I dunno. I only recently got into the Fantastic Four comics, but this movie just feels off in terms of tone. Who knows, maybe the movie'll come out and surprise us, but I'm not super confident in that.

It's not even that I don't like dark and edgy (even if it's not exactly my preference in general, admittedly), after all the BvS trailer got me hyped despite not being a fan of how DC's handing it's own cinematic universe, and with the FF you can certainly tell serious stories with them. Hell, Doom himself is traditionally one of the most threatening villains in the Marvel universe, to the point where even lighter continuities (the Ultimate Spidey cartoon for example) play him completely seriously. It's just that, based solely on what we've seen, it doesn't quite capture the feeling of the Fantastic Four as characters or as a team, and that's one of the things I like most about them. But, again, I guess we can only wait and see.

On a positive note, I love the "science hero" / exploration vibe in a few of those scenes--that's very FF-y, I think. Also, it seems like Doom is closer to his comic counterpart than we thought (with those "hacker" rumours being false according to the actor), so...that's a relief.

So yeah, I'm kind of interested, but wary at the same time. And honestly...I'd rather the FF be in the MCU even if I was super hyped for this film. Like, they're the Marvel universe's "first family". It's telling that, even though the most recent Fantastic Four ongoing title ended a while back, the FF (and Doom, naturally) are all very important to the Secret Wars event going on in the comics.

[Mania Pipe]

Oh yeah, completely forgot about this movie. I remember seeing this trailer when I went to see Age of Ultron and... yeah... I remembered it not being that interesting and it felt rather mixed for me. It looks like it COULD be a good Fantastic Four film or a better movie than the Tim Story Fantastic Four, but something in me tells that it might be just average or below that.

[krazystitch]

Eh..no matter how much I see of this movie, I just can't get behind it. It seriously looks like it's trying too hard to fit in with other action movies instead of giving it the comic story flair that it should have which Marvel seems to give their movies. I'm not even sure this is going to end up being better than the 2005 one. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but I don't exactly have high hopes.

[Gabz Girl]

I'm sorry but that dialogue is utter shit and cliché as hell! ><

I really don't think this movie stands out from other Superhero movies judging by the trailer. So blah.

[Failinhearts]

Ehhhh.....No.

Still not excited. Just feels boring. All the complaints I had in my first reply still stands. It's trying so hard to be "hardcore, and edgy" by covering itself with a sterotypical load of grit and dark enviroments. I have one thing to say to that:

Edited July 17, 2015 by Failinhearts

[Balding Spider]

Honest question to Fox. Do you not know how many other villains the Fantastic Four have? It's not just Doom and Galactus guys.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Honest question to Fox. Do you not know how many other villains the Fantastic Four have? It's not just Doom and Galactus guys.

Yep, don't forget the frightful four, Paste Pot Pete, Annihilus, Mole Man, and many many more 

[Balding Spider]

Yep, don't forget the frightful four, Paste Pot Pete, Annihilus, Mole Man, and many many more 

Make fun of me if you want but I believe Mole Man should've been the first villain they faced. Is he goofy sure, but to a degree. He's a tyrannical ruler of a new subterranean species, and outright robs them of any chance to evolve as a species so he can stay in power. He also... robs corpses and does bizarre shit with them... Read Mark Waid's Daredevil if you want more on that.

Dudes legit creepy.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Balding Spider

[Tornado]

Honest question to Fox. Do you not know how many other villains the Fantastic Four have? It's not just Doom and Galactus guys.

Somewhat unfair criticism. They probably want this to make money, and to do so you're going to want to cast as wide a net as possible; and frankly the layman probably actually doesn't know how many other villains the Fantastic Four have. Not every creative team of a superhero film is going to have the artistic vision (or creative freedom) to do a Batman Begins; and even Christopher Nolan went to the Joker well by his second film.

 

 

That isn't to say that this isn't a studio driven hack movie cynically thrown out to try and muscle in on the genre, but even if this was an auteur led prestige picture with people who happened to be dressed in tights it would still probably have Doctor Doom in it.

[Killtank]

Ehhhh.....No.

Still not excited. Just feels boring. All the complaints I had in my first reply still stands. It's trying so hard to be "hardcore, and edgy" by covering itself with a sterotypical load of grit and dark enviroments. I have one thing to say to that:

Personally, I detest this kind of knee-jerk reaction to media. I don't see having a darker color palette than your traditional Marvel installment is tantamount to being "grimdark". I feel like that word is thrown around far too often, and it's often done with the intent to shut down any debate. It isn't self-evident to me. I don't feel like having dark settings is equivalent to the studio trying too hard to be edgy and hardcore.  Does this mean that a "darker" more self-serious interpretation will be inherently better than any alternative?  Of course not. But it's silly to write off a movie on the simple fact that there aren't enough bright colors. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

When we're talking Fantastic Four? I'd argue writing it off on there not being enough bright colours is not as stupid as you're implying, actually. Not like this is Batman.

[Killtank]

When we're talking Fantastic Four? I'd argue writing it off on there not being enough bright colours is not as stupid as you're implying, actually. Not like this is Batman.

While I admit that a dark, gritty adaptation can't work well for every property [e.g. The Flash, Shazam], I still think that a film with a muted color palette and dark settings is better than a film with excessive camp. That is just my personal taste. I'd rather have this new adaptation be its own thing and not be wholly comparable to what we were given in the mid-'00s. I know that a film with those traits I mentioned isn't guaranteed to be good, but those two qualities don't are indicative of a "grimdark" film that "tries too hard" to be edgy and hardcore. I will also say that I am biased to some extent. I am tired of bright colors and incessant jokes. I want somebody to run away from this trend and be successful.  

Edited July 17, 2015 by Killtank

[Mauro Fonseca]

Again, doing so with the Fantastic Four, though? That's the point that's sticking out. Especially when in the name of "darker storytelling" "humanizing!" they're missing actual bits and clues of storytelling and humanizing from the comics like the Thing wearing human clothes to feel human, which I mentioned before.

 

Eh. A Dr. Doom movie done like this could actually be interesting. Very dark gothic, and all. Fantastic Four, though? I'd rather see a retro-futurist sendup looking like it's the 1960's.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Fantastic Four just really doesn't fit the extremely dark gritty style that Fox is trying to go for. Can it be serious? Of course it can, but the series has always leaned more towards a lighthearted side rather than ultra grim and dark. It doesn't help that it's playing to so many movie cliches, like Reed making inventions out of household items and it screwing up the power causing a blackout, and the generic jokes we usually get like ''Oh I thought there's four of you'' ''There is'' ''Cue Ben doing some move''

That's on top of the fact that it feels like it removes some of the best elements of these characters. Ben for example was always the rough and gruff new yorker type person with a Brooklyn accent. It made him distinct and added a nice likability to his voice when he looks so disfigured. From what I've seen from the trailers, it looks like they even got rid of that, which is a shame, because Ben has always been my favourite of the group. Just the laid back but easily annoyed Brooklyn accent mixed with his personality just made him really likable for me.

Say what you want about the 2005 film but at least that got some of the character cues and comic elements correctly. The only thing this film seems to be getting right so far is Doom, and even that's questionable. 

[Tornado]

I am tired of bright colors and incessant jokes. I want somebody to run away from this trend and be successful.  

What "trend"?

 

 

You've said this exact line:

I'm tired of bright colors and incessant jokes.

Twice now in the past week. What is it supposed to mean? Marvel hasn't been releasing Batman Forever every year for the past 7 years. Dark and gritty storytelling is not the same thing as serious storytelling; and enough hacks have done enough shitty jobs making lazy pastiches of Dark Knight Returns and Killing Joke (including Frank Miller himself for the past 20 years) that the two concepts shouldn't be confused.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I dunno, I do think you can grab the Marvel movies and connect them as "the superhero movies with colours and a lot of jokes in them", and since Marvel is doing so many movies, it definitely becomes a trend. Just a bizarre case of a trend specific to one studio, while the others instead aim for a darker feel. Except arguably Spider-Man.

[Killtank]

 

What "trend"?

 

 

You've said this exact line:

Twice now in the past week. What is it supposed to mean? Marvel hasn't been releasing Batman Forever every year for the past 7 years. Dark and gritty storytelling is not the same thing as serious storytelling; and enough hacks have done enough shitty jobs making lazy pastiches of Dark Knight Returns and Killing Joke (including Frank Miller himself for the past 20 years) that the two concepts shouldn't be confused.

I don't think I've ever said that dark and gritty makes anything inherently good. In fact, I'm sure I said the exact opposite in an earlier post. Anyway, my comments were in reference to the Marvel approach to making such movies. And yes, the words I chose could have been more encompassing than "bright colors and incessant jokes", but that's how I see their approach for the most part. That isn't to say they don't make movies which tackle a serious subject matter [i.e. Winter Soldier], but by and large, their films don't go in that direction.  And while Marvel doesn't release a film like Batman Forever every six months, I still feel like they're becoming more and more campy with time. That's just my impression. 

Edited July 18, 2015 by Killtank

[Tornado]

I don't think I've ever said that dark and gritty makes anything inherently good

And I didn't claim you did. I said you were conflating dark and gritty storytelling with serious storytelling, which you did imply earlier before outright stating it right here:

That isn't to say they don't make movies which tackle a serious subject matter [i.e. Winter Soldier], but by and large, their films don't go in that direction.

Just because a film doesn't decide to be completely miserable and humorless about its subject matter doesn't mean that that it isn't treating its subject matter seriously, and it certainly doesn't mean that it is treating it as camp. The first two Raimi Spiderman films (despite what the crazy fanboys like to act like was the case) were able to examine the Spiderman character but still maintain a playful, friendly quality in their storytelling. The X-Men films have also generally tried to er on the side of a straightforward action movie that happens to be a comic book adaptation as opposed to a deconstruction of the political plots they feature. Camp and dark story ideas aren't even diametrically opposed concepts, since the first two Batman movies had both of them in spades.

In contrast, Dark Knight Rises was so contemptuous and deliberately self-important in how it presented Batman as a concept that it basically became a melodrama anyway. A Batman Lifetime movie, if you will. A Fantastic Four movie (of all things) that seems to taking the same superficial grittiness so widely mocked 20 years ago certainly seems to be leaning pretty far away from something that will "tackle a serious subject matter".

[Killtank]

And I didn't claim you did. I said you were conflating dark and gritty storytelling with serious storytelling, which you did imply earlier before outright stating it right here:

Just because a film doesn't decide to be completely miserable and humorless about its subject matter doesn't mean that that it isn't treating its subject matter seriously, and it certainly doesn't mean that it is treating it as camp. Camp and dark story ideas aren't even diametrically opposed concepts, since the first two Batman movies had both of them in spades. The first two Raimi Spiderman films (despite what the crazy fanboys like to act like was the case) were able to examine the Spiderman character but still maintain a playful, friendly quality in their storytelling. The X-Men films have also generally tried to er on the side of a straightforward action movie that happens to be a comic book adaptation as opposed to a deconstruction of the political plots they feature.

In contrast, Dark Knight Rises was so contemptuous and deliberately depressing in how it presented Batman as a concept that it basically became a melodrama anyway. A Batman Lifetime movie, if you will. A Fantastic Four movie (of all things) that seems to taking the same superficial grittiness so widely mocked 20 years ago certainly seems to be erring pretty far away from something that will "tackle a serious subject matter".

Personally, I didn't think that The Dark Knight Rises was depressing and unbearably dreary in its presentation, but that's simply a matter of personal preference. I doubt I could convince you to see that movie, or really any other for that matter, from my perspective. I found it entertaining, but I'm weird about stuff like that. I don't feel like Man of Steel or The Dark Knight Rises are completely dismal and devoid of any joy. Anyway, it's hard to really say definitively that the tone of this new adaptation will be ultimately hollow and only convey a veneer of grit and darkness. Then again, I admit I haven't seen every teaser and advertisement for Fantastic Four, so I very well may lack a full portrait. I still want to give this film the chance to make a good impact with me. I just feel like it's far too early to write this movie off as being terrible until we receive a critical consensus. If it's a bad movie, then it's bad. 

As for your argument, I will agree with you that a film doesn't need to be dark and brooding in order to approach a sobering topic worthy of thoughtful consideration. I'd argue that the more direct route would be to explore and analyze such topics from a position not unlike that of Nolanverse Batman, but a campy movie can easily have depth beyond any explicit presentation. Yes, you can talk about these topics even with the presence of bright colors and incessant jokes. I just feel like it's easier to hit that target if your aim isn't obstructed by those very same traits. In any case, I just don't like camp. That's my preference. It may not be right, but it's still pleasing to me. Say what you will about The Dark Knight Rises, I'd rather watch that movie a dozen times than watch Sam Raimi's Spider-Man for a very long time. However, I still love the heck out of Spider-Man 2. That movie's dope.  

Edited July 18, 2015 by Killtank

[Mauro Fonseca]

You'd seriously watch TDKR over Spider-Man? That's a lot of loyalty for a hired gun.

[Balding Spider]

We got our first batch of reviews hot and ready:

http://variety.com/2015/film/reviews/fantastic-four-review-reboots-marvel-comic-1201555905/

http://www.thewrap.com/fantastic-four-review-marvel-mcu-michael-b-jordan-kate-mara-miles-teller/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movie/fantastic-four/review/813140

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/review/a661751/fantastic-four-review-dark-and-gritty-does-not-suit-this-marvel-muddle.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=dsuk&utm_campaign=twdsuk#~pkr0U6Jjj1WNXP

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/heres-the-thing-about-fantastic-four-its-125872066562.html

Edited August 4, 2015 by Balding Spider

[Johnny Boy]

Why am I not surprised by these reviews?

[Balding Spider]

Why am I not surprised by these reviews?

I really wanted this to be good, I really did.

Edit: So TGWTG's Film Brain saw the movie, and isn't pulling any punches. Warning this contains spoilers, and the ruining of one of this mans favorite childhood catchphrases: https://twitter.com/FB_BMB

Edited August 4, 2015 by Balding Spider

[Ducktor Naldush]

The Thing is my Marvel hero. Not even Spider-Man, the Marvel character I grew up with, can compare. That twisting of one of his catch-phrases, broke my heart.

[Johnny Boy]

Damn, I'm now bracing myself for the rotten tomatoes score.