Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Badnik Mechanic]

I think people are just upset because it's not satisfying their hunger for a mainline Sonic title. A lot of people I see here were expecting a Heroes/Adventure style game. And well, by expecting that you're shooting yourself in the foot. We knew from day one this would be drastically different with Sonicy elements in it so it doesn't feel like a completely different series. I for one, 

 

How many times are people going to claim this is the reason why people are angry when nobody from the first 19 pages of the topic (since I've stopped bothering to check since then), has said that they wanted a 'Sonic game like this Sonic game.' 

 

It was obvious from the announcement day that this game wasn't going to be like 'insert game here.'

 

People don't like it because it doesn't look like a very good game!

 

Nothing to do with the fact sonic is or isn't in it. It just doesn't look very good.

 

Now if Sega want to release some footage which shows this game being awesome, or bring me down to playtest their awesome build, by all means I'll say 'hey this looks like a great game,' but based on what got shown yesterday, it doesn't look very good, and this is a statement being said by people who do and don't know much about the Sonic franchise.

 

 

 

Edit: Wait... now I've just said that... isn't there an interview somewhere in which someone on the development team does say it's like Heroes & Adventure? For some reason I think I've read/heard that somewhere?

[Tani Coyote]

Speaking of Lyric. I was wondering, you know the announcement trailer? How it ended with that huge claw thing crashing down? 

 

Could that be Lyric? If you look at the 3DS screen of him, he's quite clearly giant. And the claw, whilst having an extra... claw... on it, could it be his final ultimate monster form or something?

What good snake villain wouldn't have a super-anaconda form?

...I still wouldn't mind Eggman booting him off at the last minute and being the real final boss, though.

Soooo, who anticipates you'll need to collect stuff to get the full ending? I'm not talking a few emerald/not emerald things. I'm talking dozens if not hundreds of a certain item.

[Autosaver]

People don't like it because it doesn't look like a very good game!

 

I'm actually seeing two groups of people. One that doesn't like it because it looks "bad", and the other because it doesn't "look like Sonic". This is most notable with the constant comments being made about the game being good but as a Sonic game being bad.

I do understand both groups though. I'm not writing off anyone or instantly dismissing them as being conservative.

 

 

Edit: Wait... now I've just said that... isn't there an interview somewhere in which someone on the development team does say it's like Heroes & Adventure? For some reason I think I've read/heard that somewhere?

 

Well, it kind of is like Heroes and Adventure. I'm not sure if a dev said that, but I think someone on here may have said it looked sort of similar. Heroes in that you're working with other Sonic characters and sometimes with all 4. Adventure in that you're moving around an open environment and exploring.

[Chaos Incarnate]

People, you're perfectly entitled to be thrilled and optimistic over the game, just as I once was. Us who aren't too thrilled with it, however, have very simple reasons for not being too happy.

 

All we want is a good game that looks fun to play. Is that too much to ask? I don't care about Stephen Frost's comments, he's doing an admirable job hyping it up, but when I watch the actual game, I have a hard time being impressed. 

 

Seriously, everybody wants something different from Sonic at the end of the day, and that really shows. I'm not giving it extra leeway on what it does wrong because it's an "entirely different Sonic game", I'm being harsh because it IS a Sonic game, and I happen to hold high expectations for what this game is hyping itself up as.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Is anyone else noticing that there's complaints about complaints about complaints going on here? Fact is, the thing is only relevant to the audience buying it. Something that would be considered a bad thing to one person may not to another.

Here's what's happening:

Person #1: "I think Sonic is a little slow" 

Person #2: "Well, personally I like the idea of being able to control my hedgehog (okay, honestly he could use some speeding up)."

Person #3: "This shit isn't Sonic, get it away!"

Person #1: "It's not supposed to be, and there's nothing to identify about Sonic at this point."

Person #3: "Well it looks horrible and unpolished."

Person #2: "It IS unpolished. It isn't finished yet. Maybe you should play the damn game first. Hell, maybe Sonic is fast enough and I'm wrong, I dunno. That remark had no substance to it."

Person #3: "Well, this doesn't look or feel anything like classic Sonic should. I expected high speed platforming, damnit!"

Person #'s 1 and 2: "Okay, why? It's been 20 years since Sonic 3, and this has so many signs of being different, like the developers, the title, the artstyle, etc."

 

And so on and so forth. None of this is going anywhere! It just yells at itself and nobody's given anything of substance to improve other than "general polish and make Sonic faster". We still haven't yet seen the final game because there is no final game!

 

 

As for me, I still think it looks fantastic. I might just be used to slower gameplay or something, but it really didn't look that bad in the footage provided, and the combat looks slick as hell. I can clearly see that the graphics in that speed level are unpolished, yes. But they probably aren't finished yet! It's not the full game! If it were, we might have had a demo or something already out! This same sort of thing happened on a far smaller scale when that one indev pic popped up. People started yelling about 15 FPS and stuff and just assumed it was the final game, and considering half the textures were missing, I'd say that's pretty unlikely. Finnaly, the biggest note about polish I've seen is that there is NO motion blur here, and I think that's the biggest part. That trailer in February was always meant to be shown to the public, and as such used more polished areas of the game as well as motion blur. The footage we saw, however, was not. That's why they took it down! Because they only wanted to show the parts they've finished yet! That's why that demo given to gamexplain didn't go public! They even mentioned the build they were playing was an early one.

 

Edit: forgot to change all the names

[Autosaver]

I don't think someone is a dick for saying a game looks horrible and unpolished.

[Boomer]

Is anyone else noticing that there's complaints about complaints about complaints going on here? Fact is, the thing is only relevant to the audience buying it. Something that would be considered a bad thing to one person may not to another.

Here's what's happening:

Person #1: "I think Sonic is a little slow" 

Person #2: "Well, personally I like the idea of being able to control my hedgehog (okay, honestly he could use some speeding up)."

Person #3: "This shit isn't Sonic, get it away!"

Person #1: "It's not supposed to be, and there's nothing to identify about Sonic at this point."

Dick: "Well it looks horrible and unpolished."

Person #2: "It IS unpolished. It isn't finished yet. Maybe you should play the damn game first. Hell, maybe Sonic is fast enough and I'm wrong, I dunno. That remark had no substance to it."

Dick: "Well, this doesn't look or feel anything like classic Sonic should. I expected high speed platforming, damnit!"

Person #'s 1 and 2: "Okay, why? It's been 20 years since Sonic 3, and this has so many signs of being different, like the developers, the title, the artstyle, etc."

 

And so on and so forth. None of this is going anywhere! It just yells at itself and nobody's given anything of substance to improve other than "general polish and make Sonic faster". We still haven't yet seen the final game because there is no final game!

Way to generalise.

Anyway it'd be great if everyone would just calm the fuck down, some people like the game so hooray for them. Other's like me are not interested in it and have been put off by the gameplay (which we are allowed to be put off by!) so hooray for them too.

 

[Willsy]

WILL'S MODERATELY FUCKING BIG WALL OF TEXT OF OPINIONS AND SHIT:

I have faith in the project, but I think it could go either way. I will admit though, the combat animations alone look like a lot of fun, and I'm sure it'll make the combat seem more satisfying even if it is button mashy. I love the LEGO games, so I don't mind button mashy. As for similarities with the Werehog; I thought the idea of the Werehog gameplay could have been a lot of fun, but it was the execution that was the problem. It felt slow and clunky because it was programmed that way. Even then, I didn't feel that the Werehog was terrible.

Brawlers can still have sense of speed and fluidity even if it doesn't involve running fast, look at the Arkham games. The combat felt fast paced, it was varied, and there were multiple options to taking down foes. If the combat can be fluid and fun, then I might just be won over fully with the whole combat thing.

Then there's exploration. I love exploring levels and hubs in video games, and I love it even more when they have little extras hidden in secret areas. If Boom has plenty of those with some really open and living levels, then I'll really like that. As for the speed sections, they look pretty fun too. Definitely automated more than Unleashed, but they still look fun.

Of course, I do still have reservations about the game and that's more to do with the pacing than anything else. If a fame is too slow for me, I get bored with it and it starts to drag. I then eventually give up on said game and go play something else, effectively meaning that no, I didn't like the game. I'm not saying that Boom will definitely be like this. However, as I said, it could go either way. But I'm hoping it'll go the way of being a fun and well made deviation from the traditional Sonic formula rather than a being a boring and poorly made one. I'm open to change as long as they are good ones.

Overall, at first I was very mixed. I didn't know what to think. Then I just thought to myself "It's just an attempt to try something new, and a spin off", then I rewatched the footage and actually saw it in an entirely different light. It looked pretty cool, and enjoyable. So I think the game so far looks pretty nice, but I really want to see how the levels work first and what the pacing is like.

Note: These are just my opinions, I can understand is others may not like the direction this is going. Nobody has to like it if they don't.

WALL OF TEXT OVER, YOU CAN STOP SLEEPING NOW

[Diogenes]

Yeah I would like to clarify that my dislike of this game is both because it doesn't play like a Sonic game and because it doesn't look very good in its own right anyway.

Now, look. I'm not saying that there's only one kind of game that I'm willing to call "Sonicy". And I am acknowledging that it is its own side-series and that it doesn't have to follow the main series perfectly.

But. But. This is still an extension of Sonic. If they want me, as an existing (albeit waning) Sonic fan, to take interest in this new side-series, it needs to provide the things that I care about regarding Sonic. Otherwise, why should I care? Why does the game matter any more to me than the hundreds of others on the shelf?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Way to generalise.

Gimme a good example of this NOT being the exact argument in question.

 

'Cause that's all I'm seeing here.

[Boomer]

Gimme a good example of this NOT being the exact argument in question.

 

'Cause that's all I'm seeing here.

Everyone that has already stated their opinions multiple times.

Also calling someone a dick because they think it looks unpolished is really stupid, the game is out in 4 months or so. It's perfectly reasonable to be worried.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Everyone that has already stated their opinions multiple times.

Also calling someone a dick because they think it looks unpolished is really stupid, the game is out in 4 months or so. It's perfectly reasonable to be worried.

Those are the only opinions I've seen. It's always either "It's not Sonic" or "It looks bad" with no follow up. And I already changed that.

[Boomer]

Those are the only opinions I've seen. It's always either "It's not Sonic" or "It looks bad" with no follow up. And I already changed that.

Those are the only opinions you choose to see. People such as Vertekins, Shadzter and Hogfather have already made it clear that the reason they don't like it is because of the game itself. Be it focusing on slow-paced combat or the game being buggy.

And you may have changed it but you still said it to begin with.

Learn some respect.

[kboyrulez12345]

You know back at the whole Amy fawning over Sonic thing, looking back at it, it's kind of unfair that Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles actually get to keep the base of their personality(for those people with the Knuckles being a buffoon thing, that was still something Sonic Team made him out to be) but Amy doesn't get to keep hers. Kind of a shame.

 

Edit: Well, by base I meant characteristic instead.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Those are the only opinions you choose to see. People such as Vertekins, Shadzter and Hogfather have already made it clear that the reason they don't like it is because of the game itself. Be it focusing on slow-paced combat or the game being buggy.

Yes! It's fine not to like the game! My issue is with people who are too quick to judge and write it off as a piece of shit!

(and again, it's an earlier build with the glitches and stuff)

Bruce Campbell, on 03 Jun 2014 - 1:29 PM, said:

And you may have changed it but you still said it to begin with.

Learn some respect.

I hadn't intended for people to see it. That's why half of it said "person #3". So sorry for insulting something that was already vague.

 

You know back at the whole Amy fawning over Sonic thing, looking back at it, it's kind of unfair that Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles actually get to keep the base of their personality(for those people with the Knuckles being a buffoon thing, that was still something Sonic Team made him out to be) but Amy doesn't get to keep hers. Kind of a shame.

 

You know I kinda thought about that too, but honestly was her normal personality that great to begin with?

[Willsy]

I'm going to weigh in on the "is it Sonic" argument, but it will only be my opinions.

To me, it doesn't look like a traditional Sonic game. It does look like an entirely different game with Sonic and co in. It's a bit like Riders in that respect, it's a different kind of game but featuring Sonic characters. But I don't think that makes the game bad. The game would be bad if the game turned out just to be a poor game in general (which hopefully won't be the case), but I'm kind of liking what I'm seeing so far and I have faith that the few years this game has been in development for will be worth it.

As I said though, still cautious, but we're getting off topic there.

[Tani Coyote]

So. Chances they'll limit access to main story areas if you don't have enough of X collectible?

Jak and Daxter did it, as did Lost World, so I'm somewhat anxious on that part.

Medals and their variants are evil. EVIL.

[Dizcrybe]

None of this is going anywhere!

 

SSMB arguments in a nutshell.

[Boomer]

Yes! It's fine not to like the game! My issue is with people who are too quick to judge and write it off as a piece of shit!

(and again, it's an earlier build with the glitches and stuff)

Gameplay and trailers are released to get people hyped, if we're not interested in it then we're not interested in it. We'll decide for ourselves if it interests us when we decide for ourselves. No matter how quick it is.

It's an earlier build but they still decided to show it off and I repeat, the game is out in 4 months. And 1 of those months will be production and shipping.

 

 

 

I hadn't intended for people to see it. That's why half of it said "person #3". So sorry for insulting something that was already vague.

If you hadn't intended for people to see it then why write it in the first place? 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

So. Chances they'll limit access to main story areas if you don't have enough of X collectible?

Jak and Daxter did it, as did Lost World, so I'm somewhat anxious on that part.

Medals and their variants are evil. EVIL.

I do hope not. As much a beat-em-up as this game is, I don't think it's really taking that much inspiration from the werehog. It sure looks more fun to play, at least. Worst case scenario they can remove it at the last minute if we scream hard enough. I wasn't really that bothered by it in Lost World, though. Maybe I'm just a stickler for getting rid of badniks.

 

 

Gameplay and trailers are released to get people hyped, if we're not interested in it then we're not interested in it. We'll decide for ourselves if it interests us when we decide for ourselves. No matter how quick it is.

Okay, fine! I don't care! WHATEVER!

 

It's an earlier build but they still decided to show it off and I repeat, the game is out in 4 months. And 1 of those months will be production and shipping.

And you aren't thinking of when exactly this build was made. This could very well be much further back than you think.

 

If you hadn't intended for people to see it then why write it in the first place? 

Because I did originally intend it, and then I realized it would be a stupid thing to do look just get off it, it doesn't matter, I'm done with this topic!

[Tani Coyote]

Animals were fortunately easy enough to get thanks to those circus stages.

But the medals? Oh good lord, that got annoying quick.

I really hope that Boom doesn't go the route of having collectibles for any purpose other than bonuses.

[Willsy]

SSMB arguments in a nutshell.

It's worse on the SEGA forums.

So. Chances they'll limit access to main story areas if you don't have enough of X collectible?Jak and Daxter did it, as did Lost World, so I'm somewhat anxious on that part.Medals and their variants are evil. EVIL.

Wait....you have to collect things to unlock later story events? If it doesn't involve you going out of your way to do it, and by the time you get to the thing you need to unlock you already have the right amount of whatever, then I guess I can let it slide.

[Detective Shadzter]

The past Sonic games comparison was brought up because some people are saying things like "It was said from the beginning that it's different to your usual Sonic game, so why are people surprised?" From the negative posts I've seen so far, no one was surprised it was different. People knew it was going to change things up, just not how much. This is a game that is still using the Sonic IP and even uses the Sonic name in its title, so it should still have some similarity. Just because they've changed the gameplay, it doesn't mean it shouldn't still included the core speed aspect of the series. You want to bring in combat? That's cool, bring it on. Oh, you want to make it slow? Eh....no. 

 

Anyway, that's why the Sonic game comparisons were brought up. I think the main problem the negative folk have is that even as its own thing it looks like a bad game. The speed sections are lifeless, the combat looks repetitive, slow and clunky and the game looks linear with no freedom due to abilities being restricted to certain sections. Seriously, why can't Knuckles climb any damn wall he pleases?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Animals were fortunately easy enough to get thanks to those circus stages.

But the medals? Oh good lord, that got annoying quick.

I really hope that Boom doesn't go the route of having collectibles for any purpose other than bonuses.

 

Oh, yes. Bonus collectibles I can more than get down with. Especially if it unlocks extra levels or something.

[Diogenes]

Gimme a good example of this NOT being the exact argument in question.

 

'Cause that's all I'm seeing here.

The problem I have is that I feel expecting speedy platforming is perfectly reasonable, as that is (or was, at least) the core identity of the series.

If you pick up a Mario game, you can safely expect it to be a platformer, unless it is very explicitly not. That's because platforming is part of Mario's identity. He is Jumpman, breaker of bricks, stomper of Goombas. Even in his RPGs this is carried over in theme and mechanics even if not as strongly as in the main platformer line.

But Boom is like, the Starfox Adventures of Sonic games. The thing that people expect from the series, the thing that they follow it for, is cordoned off into shallow gimmick sections. And the "main" gameplay is something else entirely, something that's almost the antithesis of what the series is about.

If you took a Sonic game, whether it's Sonic 1, SA, Unleashed, Lost World, whatever, and replaced all the recognizable sprites/models/textures with generic ones, you'd probably still be able to guess that it's a Sonic game, or at least, you'd see a resemblance (and I say this even as much as I complain about the boost gameplay). But if you did that for Boom, outside of its speed sections, I don't think anyone would be able to guess.