Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Lead to hidden areas, put stuff in walls to collect.

And it wouldn't remove any challenge as you'd still have to fight.

So you're saying that the buttloads of exploration we've already got isn't enough, then? Just being able to wait up there and letting your AI partner fight is challenging to you?

 

It's just like, why are we acting surprised and complainaing about this NOW? No real new information has come up, we ALWAYS knew of hte emphasis on combat, we knew speed would probably take a back seat. If Sonic Unleashed can still be a Sonic game despite 75% of it being beat em up, tornado, hub world stuff, I dont see why this can't

Post of the day

[Milo]

Sonic Battle is a shitty game because you cant go fast. That's the logic im seeing right now.

 

Except SHtH's levels were still designed as if it were a mainline Sonic game. They were linear, had rails, dash pads, loops, general "go-fast" sections, basically like a Sonic Adventure stage painted black.

 

When you see any of that in Boom outside of the automated speed sections, lemme know.

 

Shadow the Hedgehog having both speed and Sonic Adventure-designed stages and that still didn't save it from being widely criticized for being a large departure from regular Sonic games. Which I noted were departures in gameplay, visuals, and tone in my post; but it seems both of you skimmed over that nonetheless.

[Sean]

How about some of you go lie down for a while and calm down 'cause I'm tired of the passive aggressiveness that plagues all of your guys' debates. Talking with you guys isn't fun.

[Boomer]

It's just like, why are we acting surprised and complainaing about this NOW? No real new information has come up, we ALWAYS knew of hte emphasis on combat, we knew speed would probably take a back seat. If Sonic Unleashed can still be a Sonic game despite 75% of it being beat em up, tornado, hub world stuff, I dont see why this can't

We didn't know how slow the combat would be.

And the thing with Sonic Unleashed is that the Werehog still moved reasonably fast, we also had the excellent speed levels. Unlike Boom which has shoe-horned in speed levels that seem to lack any challenge.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Shadow the Hedgehog having speed and Sonic Adventure-designed stages still didn't save it from being widely criticized for being a large departure from regular Sonic games. Which I noted were departures in gameplay, visuals, and tone in my post; but it seems both of you skimmed over that nonetheless.

The gameplay is just Sonic Heroes with guns. The graphics are just Sonic 06 with even less color. The tone is just Sonic 06 with extra "DAMN"!

 

..and a side of fries.

[Diogenes]

Okay, first; It worked, but people didn't like it

Then it didn't work.

And?

And, Assault exists as both a unique experience and an aspect of the Starfox universe because it tries to work within the things that people found valuable in previous Starfox games instead of abandoning them entirely.

But it doesn't need to be because it's not the main focus because this is a spinoff.

Calling it a spinoff doesn't absolve it of any connection to its parent series. If they wanted to work entirely free of existing preconceptions, they should have made an entirely new series. But no, they made a spinoff, they're riding on Sonic's visual identity, but they're failing to tap into his gameplay identity. And that's turning off gameplay-focused people like me.

And what exactly is any more shallow about them than just playing Generations and Unleashed? You run fast down a linear hallway and it's fun. The only thing this doesn't have is the boost.

Pro tip: I think Generations and Unleashed are also shallow. But Boom's speed sections look even worse, as we've yet to even see enemies in them, and the 3D parts seem entirely limited to quick step challenges whereas the boost games had somewhat better use of the three available dimensions.

[Willsy]

I'm wondering if the enerbeam can be used as a whip in a way that you just slash enemies with it (I swear I do not intend for this to be taken out of context). I believe we saw that in the initial reveal trailer, but it was on an environmental object.

[Gabz Girl]

Shadow the Hedgehog was also a spinoff and people still criticized it for being distance to Sonic regarding tone, visuals, and gameplay, so no, the "spinoff card" (still) doesn't give the likes of Boom a free pass.

 

Shadow was NOT a spin off!

 

If it was a spin off, it wouldn't be a part of the main fucking storyline of the 3D games, what with it being a direct continuation of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes' story!

 

I quote Clement from his Sonic 06 review;

 

 

Wario Land is a spin off, Tails Adventure and Tails Sky Patrol were spin offs. Shadow the Hedgehog was a Sonic game filled with Sonic characters where you collected rings and run through loop de loops...as Shadow! There was nothing spin off about it, especially when it was a direct sequel to Sonic Adventure 2 and effected the status of Shadow's amnesia which was a plot point introduced in the non-spin off Sonic Heroes!

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Then it didn't work.

No, it makes the game "underrated".

 

And, Assault exists as both a unique experience and an aspect of the Starfox universe because it tries to work within the things that people found valuable in previous Starfox games instead of abandoning them entirely.

Because it was actually trying to be a Starfox game, and this game isn't trying to be Sonic.

 

Calling it a spinoff doesn't absolve it of any connection to its parent series. If they wanted to work entirely free of existing preconceptions, they should have made an entirely new series. But no, they made a spinoff, they're riding on Sonic's visual identity, but they're failing to tap into his gameplay identity. And that's turning off gameplay-focused people like me.

Okay, let's talk about how insanely focused on platforming Paper Mario, or Thousand Year Door was. Or how obviously Portal was a game about crawling through vents and hitting shit with a crowbar.

 

Pro tip: I think Generations and Unleashed are also shallow. But Boom's speed sections look even worse, as we've yet to even see enemies in them, and the 3D parts seem entirely limited to quick step challenges whereas the boost games had somewhat better use of the three available dimensions.

And we are now at the point of arguing for the sake of arguing.

[JezMM]

The earlier comparison to Sonic Battle is dumb.  Games are not black and white, just because both Sonic Battle, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic Boom are all labelled as "spin-offs" that doesn't mean they are all the same thing.

 

Sonic Boom is still intended to be a big game, a "proper" entry in the series, and still of the platformer genre.  To say something like "you were okay with fighting in Sonic Battle!" is exceptionally pointless because games do not exist in neat little categories, there is such a concept of a spectrum of importance in the franchise, and it's pretty safe to say Sonic Battle is "more of a spin-off" than Sonic Boom is.  For what it's worth I agree with Gabz Girl as well that Shadow isn't really a spin-off.  To skip it skips a major chunk of the Sonic storyline (back then when the games followed on from one another) and still is primarily a Sonicy platformer above all else and was released as a major title.

 

 

Anyway, there are a million games out there with mediocre brawling gameplay, there aren't many fast-paced 3D platformers.  There's nothing wrong with having the best of both worlds, but if the former is going to take up more gameplay than the latter, that is an incredibly misguided design choice for the Sonic franchise.

 

The gameplay is going to need to be exceptionally fun and different from all the other brawlers out there to justify itself.

[Detective Shadzter]

It's just like, why are we acting surprised and complainaing about this NOW? No real new information has come up, we ALWAYS knew of hte emphasis on combat, we knew speed would probably take a back seat. If Sonic Unleashed can still be a Sonic game despite 75% of it being beat em up, tornado, hub world stuff, I dont see why this can't

No, we didn't.

Snippets from the announcement press release:

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2014/02/sonic-boom-announced-for-wii-u-and-3ds/

Sonic Boom’s visual identity includes character designs inspired by the abilities and unique personalities of each of the characters, while still maintaining the core identity and values of the Sonic brand.

That sounds like the game would feature some of the core gameplay the characters are known for.

 

Serving as a prequel to the stories revealed in the TV series, the Sonic Boom video game will deliver a totally different experience to previous Sonic games with collaborative gameplay at its core. Developed in the U.S by California-based Big Red Button Entertainment (Wii U) and Sanzaru Games (Nintendo 3DS) in collaboration with Sonic Team, this is the third title to be released as part of an exclusive deal with Nintendo. Sonic Boom will take advantage of the innovative hardware of both the Wii U and Nintendo 3DS, with traditional elements of Sonic games, such as speed, also featured. The videogame will also introduce exploration, combat and a new Enerbeam tether mechanic that will allow the Sonic Boom world to be discovered in totally unique ways.

Says it will be a totally different experience, but it only says collaborative gameplay is at its core, not combat. Combat is mentioned, but it doesn't say that this will be a focus or a major gameplay aspect or that it's slow.

[Ultimate Waffle]

While at first I was shocked at seeing the footage due to it being nothing like I would have thought, I've really warmed up to the idea. A faster paced Ratchet and Clank (or Jak/Sly) with Sonic themes and powers sounds like my cup of tea. While not what I would have expected from Sonic Team.... well I guess that's the point.

 

We kind of got hints of a brawler since BRB is partially made of people from Jak and Daxter, but it wasn't confirmed they were taking a route like that.

[Diogenes]

It's just like, why are we acting surprised and complainaing about this NOW?

Because we just got some previews that confirm exactly how it plays?

I'll say again: I am not surprised by Boom U, because it's pretty much exactly what I expected based on the teaser. And I have complained about the apparent direction of the game since the teaser. But there was a chance that things could turn out different, once we saw the gameplay in more detail. But now we've seen the gameplay, we know the gist of it, and now that we know with confidence the direction the game is going, we can say with confidence that we aren't happy with it.

If Sonic Unleashed can still be a Sonic game despite 75% of it being beat em up, tornado, hub world stuff, I dont see why this can't

Because, of course, no one has ever complained about those things in Unleashed...

No, it makes the game "underrated".

Look dude, if you don't care about gameplay consistency that's your right, but don't act like people are crazy for expecting a similar experience from related things.

Because it was actually trying to be a Starfox game, and this game isn't trying to be Sonic.

Sonic Boom isn't trying to be Sonic. I just want to point out that that is seriously the argument you're trying to make.

Okay, let's talk about how insanely focused on platforming Paper Mario, or Thousand Year Door was.

They were. Far more than any other RPG that I've seen. Both your overworld progression and the flavoring of the combat incorporated platforming.

Or how obviously Portal was a game about crawling through vents and hitting shit with a crowbar.

Portal isn't Half Life, it never pretends to be Half Life, it doesn't ride on Half Life's popularity for attention. It is a work that stands on its own. The comparison is nonsensical.

And we are now at the point of arguing for the sake of arguing.

What, because I actually answered your question?

[The Deleter]

Everyone keeps talking about the mach speed sections as boring, but I'm actually really impressed with them. From the first trailer, I thought they would be this game's equivalent to SLW's mach speed sections, and only be flat roads they run down, but instead, they've opted for more complex level design, and even decided to give them alternate routes and hidden secrets, as seen in the footage if you look closely.

 

I honestly expect them to become more complex as the game goes on, as this is the first level, and there are actual spike traps in the jungle level, but to the point of them rivaling the main Sonic games... I don't think so.

 

Also, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be no defeatable enemies in these stages, as it would mess with the consistency of the combat system. The mach speed stages are apparently all about flow, and since even the most basic robot takes three hits in the main levels, they shouldn't suddenly become a pushover in these levels. It would be Sonic Unleashed's Egg Pawns all over again.

[Ducktor Naldush]

 

Okay, let's talk about how insanely focused on platforming Paper Mario, or Thousand Year Door was.

 

Paper Mario was a RPG spin-off, with some elements of platforming still in.

Sonic Boom, on the other hand, is a spin-off of a series within the same genre: platforming. Your argument doesn't quite hold up.

[KingIgort]

Feels like most of the people in this thread are making mountains out of molehills.

 

Paper Mario was a RPG spin-off, with some elements of platforming still in.

Sonic Boom, on the other hand, is a spin-off of a series within the same genre: platforming. Your argument doesn't quite hold up.

 

Except they've specifically stated this game isn't a platformer. In one of the preview vids (Polygon's, I think?) commentators have literally said "this game isn't an action platformer it's an action adventure game."

[Sean]

No, it makes the game "underrated".

 

 

Because it was actually trying to be a Starfox game, and this game isn't trying to be Sonic.

 

 

Okay, let's talk about how insanely focused on platforming Paper Mario, or Thousand Year Door was. Or how obviously Portal was a game about crawling through vents and hitting shit with a crowbar.

 

 

And we are now at the point of arguing for the sake of arguing.

I don't think you heard me. Shut up.

[TheLaw34]

That depends on the level design, since the combat sections are in arena style areas (you have to fight to proceed) he should be able to climb on the walls.

 

Hold on im pretty sure the combat and the platforming areas arent going to have some forcefield between them.

Meaning if knuckles could climb a wall in those platforming areas the developers would have to design a game where a character that can pretty much go anyhere is OP which is pointless when you can just not give him that ability which will probably not enhance gameplay in the first place.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Which would be broken.

 

I think this is rather telling. When you risk breaking a character's game by inserting that character's signature ability, something's gone wrong. With some story-given exceptions, if you break a Batman story by having him be rich, if you break a Flash story by having him be fast, if you break a Spider-Man story by having him climb walls, then, by all accounts, you've mishandled the character. There's not much legroom here to say otherwise.

[Detective Shadzter]

Nintendo UK has confirmed a November release for both versions in the UK and I assume Europe in general.

https://www.facebook.com/WiiU.co.uk/photos/a.361015913973149.81185.351440504930690/645334752207929/?type=1

[Diogenes]

Well, I'll be honest, I'm not sure a climb-anywhere Knuckles is all that viable in a more standard 3D Sonic game either.

I think the best compromise would be to make climbable surfaces very common, rather than "only where we want you to".

[Milo]

The gameplay is just Sonic Heroes with guns. The graphics are just Sonic 06 with even less color. The tone is just Sonic 06 with extra "DAMN"!

 

..and a side of fries.

 

Shadow isn't "Sonic Heroes with guns." Shadow does not feature Heroes's defining teamwork mechanics, and Heroes does not have the aforementioned guns and weapons, multiple "Hero/Neutral/Dark" mission objectives and scoring system, Shadow's Chaos powers, or two-player co-op in single player.

The graphics aren't just "Sonic 06 with even less color"-Shadow's artstyle (which is pretty foundational to the game's graphics and overall look) is intentionally dark and bleak with alien/sci-fi elements with it's locations, enemies, weapons, etc; compared to Sonic 06's realistic approach-aside from Crisis City, none of Sonic 06's levels were on the level of Shadow the Hedgehog. One merely needs to compare the designs of the characters and enemies from the both games to see the difference.

Sonic 06's tone, CG cutscenes aside, had almost everyone interacting in a overtly solemn outlook throughout the entire game-the majority of the game had little-to-any lighthearted moments whatsoever, most characters hardly cracked a joke or a smile. Shadow's tone, in comparison, was being brooding and grim to the point of being juvenile, with the likes of Shadow himself and other characters like Black Doom and GUN Commander-and yet despite that, you still had some lighthearted elements, like Sonic being snarky and the Chaotix being bumbling characters-a far cry from 06's melodrama.

 

 

Shadow was NOT a spin off!

 

If it was a spin off, it wouldn't be a part of the main fucking storyline of the 3D games, what with it being a direct continuation of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes' story!

 

I quote Clement from his Sonic 06 review;

 

It's a spinoff because the overall package of the game is a significant departure from the main series. Having significance in the main canon timeline doesn't mean anything. The Storybook series are still considered spinoffs despite Generations having a scene that features Sonic acknowledging the events of Secret Rings at one point.

[Willsy]

Looking back at the footage:

The speed level. I could be wrong here, but doesn't it kind of look as though they are set in the hub world? I can see beach areas that look explorable. Again. I could be wrong, but if this is the case....that's fucking awesome.

[Tani Coyote]

They haven't confirmed exactly when in November yet... makes me ponder which region's getting it first.

Well, I'll be honest, I'm not sure a climb-anywhere Knuckles is all that viable in a more standard 3D Sonic game either.

I think the best compromise would be to make climbable surfaces very common, rather than "only where we want you to".

I really hope there's a fair amount of those and not just in certain areas that he needs to cross.

[Ultimate Waffle]

Sonic Boom is American as fuck bro. Something is wrong with the world if this doesn't get tossed over here before the UK. To be serious, it's probably an early November with a similar/late October release for NA to match up with the cartoon.

 

Plus we all know new Super/Hyper/Nega/More Bandages Sonic will be able to access any area he wants