Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Ryannumber1gamer]

It doesn't even matter if they had trouble trying to translate the japan version of the game so the adaptation could be made unless I missed the part in Sonic Adventure where comic characters along with The Chaotix were kidnapped. Quite clearly, this was another attempt by Ken to shove his characters into the spotlight and along with that by making the Chaotix look like idiots to make the echidnas look like cool and smart.

 

Also, that's another annoying thing about the archives. As Zaysho mentioned, Penders is getting top billing despite having the smallest part of these issues. It's the same with the cover of Volume 23 where It's been pointed out that he only did ONE backup and yet he still gets top billing on the cover.

[Jason Berry]

Their booth was across from his booth, actually. So he probably benefited a lot from Planet Freedom- he probably wouldn't of gotten the same traffic without them.

 

Yup.Freedom Planet basically being an incredibly well done Sonic fan game with enough differences to put it apart from Sonic (and any legal backlash) while Kenny boy is is trying to steal Knuckles into his book.

[horridus]

So Freedom Planet was basically set opposite to their evil twin? Trippy, man. 

[Wittymations]

So, stupid question, but can somebody give me a quick rundown on the Bollers and Penders, history? I heard a little bit about them, that Bollers understood Sonic a bit better than Penders and he did some stuff that made Penders want to ruin his career, but I don't get it all really.

 

I'm not that in-the-know about the Archie staff. lol

[horridus]

Exact details are hard to come by. I hear Bollers used to have a forum that gave a better rundown of his side of things, but that's gone belly up since those days, and Penders is about as reliable as a chocolate teapot when it comes to... anything, really. 

 

What is 'generally' known is that there was a lot of behind the scenes creative conflict between the two, generally due to Penders warped belief that people should not do anything with anyone else's characters and Bollers disagreeing rather vehemently. The first recorded instance of this I can find is recounted here: 

 

http://www.sonicretro.org/2013/01/mobius-25-years-later-the-review-part-12-the-emotional-key-to-lockes-psyche/

 

In short, Bollers had the temerity to suggest 25YL might not be the 'true' future of Sonic, whereas Penders was under the impression that it was. This can be blamed on then editor Justin Gabrie's lousy handling of things; he was an editor infamous for a hands-off approach, and towards the end of Bollers, Penders and his run, you can really start to see how things were coming undone at the seams because of it. 

 

A more specific example of why Penders would want Bollers gone though can be found in the Return to Angel Island arc, wherein Bollers basically gave the comfortable status quo Ken had established a VERY firm kick in the pants by having Eggman invade Angel Island and raise Echidnapolis to the ground. Penders evidently wasn't paying attention to what Bollers was doing even after having given permission for him to use his characters and such, and as you can imagine, his reaction was... not pretty. Add to Bollers evidently wanting to reveal the Source of All as corrupt and evil (which would have explained far, far too much), and given how much Penders has publicaly made known his resentment of others working on his material, and you can see where conflict would emerge. 

 

To my knowledge what ensued was a lot of behind the scenes squabbling and general havoc. Not long after all of that, Gabrie would be sacked as an editor, Bollers would leave, and Penders would follow, with Ian Flynn being hired on as the new head writer. 

 

Much of the truth of what was going on at the time will likely remain unknown, but that's the what I *do* know. Penders has repeatedly shown to absolutely dislike others working on 'his' precious materials, and with that attitude in mind, it's not difficult to see how the Return to Angel Island arc would have made him go on the warpath. Indeed, he immediately tried to reverse several of the changes that had come about as the result of that storyline, despite it being very clearly shown that there wasn't much of Echidnapolis left. 

 

Mind you, a lot of this is pretty abridged, but this is pretty much what I know as the truth, to the best of my knowledge. 

 

So in conclusion? Penders is a crybaby, and communication is the lifeblood of any cohesive work unit. 

[Delta Starfire]

You know, I get it. I don't like the thought of other people who don't share my vision messing around with my characters and changing the direction I want my story to go in. This is why my comic is a solo project. I don't want or need another giant ego competing with mine. But if I worked on a professional collaborative work like StH, I'd check my ego at the door and accept that it's a team effort, which means I can't always get what I want. This appears to have been one of el Grande Pendejo's biggest problems. He couldn't check his ego at the door and the comic suffered because of it.

I'd say he's where he belongs now, doing a solo project, but it doesn't seem as if he can manage even that much, honestly.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Why do you keep calling him El Grande Pendejo?

[Delta Starfire]

It's Spanish for "the big asshole". Appropriate, I think. And amusing since Penders, Pendejo...

Jokes are less funny when you have to explain them...

[biznizz]

Don't forget the hypocrisy of Ken not wanting anyone wanting to mess with his stories and characters, yet shamelessly derailed Karl's story for Antoine as retaliation for RtAI.

[Wittymations]

So in conclusion? Penders is a crybaby, and communication is the lifeblood of any cohesive work unit. 

And Penders is a bit of a hypocrite given that this whole comic is about characters he didn't create, and he's constantly conflicting the canon of SEGA with everything he made. Especially with Angel Island.

 

Granted, a lot of it was well before SEGA finally giving Sonic a world we could see as-is, but all the same.

 

Also, this doesn't surprise me.

 

 

The only thing was, I wanted to write KNUCKLES: 20 YEARS LATER

 

 

Edit: lol, I'm too slow.

 

 

Don't forget the hypocrisy of Ken not wanting anyone wanting to mess with his stories and characters, yet shamelessly derailed Karl's story for Antoine as retaliation for RtAI.

[Sunwalker]

In addition to what hooridus said above, long story short: Penders and Bollers started retconning each other, until they got on a flame war on the Internet. Not long after the editor was changed, then after little while Bollers left, and finally Penders left not long after.
 
I managed to get a snippet of the discussion at the time. It is not an archive of their argument itself, but it is an archive of thread of the old Sonic HQ forums that discussed it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041119171619/http://pub228.ezboard.com/fsonichqcommunityfrm8.showMessage?topicID=2007.topic
 
Only one page of the discussion was archived, but it is the enough to give a good glimpse of what happened. It is interesting to note that BobR and Ken Penders are not acting different than what they do now (avoiding facts, etc.), the discussion happened back in 2004 but if it weren't for the date one could think that it happened yesterday.
 
Here are the snippets from Ken's old forum and the above archive. The kerfuffle has started when Bollers posted this of Ken's message board (spoilered for length):

The kerfuffle started when Karl Bollers posted this on Ken's message board:
 

Hey, Sonic fans! Just wanted to say Happy New Year and thanks for your loyal support during this past year and in previous ones.

Hope you're enjoying the new direction we've taken beginning with issue #130. We at Archie hope to make Sonic even bigger and better in 2004 than it was in 2003.

Sonic Editor J.F. Gabrie and I had a lengthy story conference this weekend to discuss upcoming storylines in the current SONIC series.

Regarding the continuity of Mobius 25 Years Later, it was decided by Justin and myself that even though the future depicted will be the one seen in the SONIC: IN YOUR FACE SPECIAL it is indeed an ALTERNATE future, similar to DC's Elseworld series.

That isn't to say that it won't be action-packed entertainment. Believe us when we say that M:25YL is going to really deliver!

And, sure, Sonic and Sally might not end up being king and queen in the future.

But who knows...

...they just might!

Peace

KB

 
Very Crazy Penguin describes what happened afterward:
 

The thread that Karl made at Ken's board was soon deleted.
 
Ken then posted a thread about how he THINKS that M25YL should not be an Elseworlds type story.
 
Karl reposted what he said.
 
It was promptly deleted.
 
The following was one of the replies to Ken's thread:

Sunwalker's note: Notice that the lines that start with a colon are words from Ken Penders.

It made a lot of good points and asked a lot of good questions whilst still being entirely respectful.

It was promptly deleted and the poster reposted it, now with a short message beforehand explaining that he or she could post this at other boards, along with a new thread asking why it was deleted.

Both were then promptly deleted.

Another poster made a new thread and said the following:
 

It was promptly deleted.

The poster reposted with:
 

Poster 1's reply was deleted again. Poster 1 reposted his or her's long post, with another short message beforehand:
 

Poster 2's thread (*whistles off* etc) was then deleted again.

One of the replies to Poster 1's message read as follows:
 

It was deleted during somepoint and reposted, now with the heading "Whoa. Major deja vu."

Ken then posted a new thread, which said as follows:
 

I replied with:
 

He replied with:
 

I replied with:
 

Both of my posts and his reply to my initial post were then deleted.

All of posts concerning this matter, including Ken's initial thread was deleted. All that remained was Ken's new "little misunderstanding" thread.

It seems that Ken can't handle the decision that Karl and Justin came to and is trying to cover up all evidence of it - which is incredibly childish and selfish amongst many other things.

It seems like Ken wants to have everything his own way and selfishly and unrealistically constrain the main story and its writers.

Control freak?

 

Sonic HQ's poster Pookum Snuffles has further details:
 

Since it will be deleted anyway - Kens current post and MY response.

Sunwalker's note: Again the lines that start with a colon are words from Ken Penders.

And VCP's response TO it:
 

 

Then Ken Penders made another thread:
 

To Pookum Snuffles and Others...
Deleting the posts has nothing to do with whether or not you like my work or think I'm a decent human being. I've been criticized before on this board and I don't delete on that basis. What I do delete is anything that creates a hassle for me that's not in plain view for everyone here to see. I may have started the ball rolling initially (in your views), but I have left well enough alone since, preferring to let people judge for themselves not that the book is out. If people accept it, great. If not, I laid an egg, and I have to accept the consequences of that action. What I don't have to do is participate in a discussion that was better left alone.

Which was replied with
 

Okay. But can you please explain to me what trouble you had with Karl kindly informing us of the decision he and the editor, Justin, had come to?

And the reply was also deleted. The discussion on the deletions continues:
 

:Deleting the posts has nothing to do with whether or not you like my work or think I'm a decent human being. I've been criticized before on this board and I don't delete on that basis.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I believe that we in the real world like to call it "biting off more than we can chew and getting your posterior handed back to you on a platter." Face it - you deleted everything because you got called out on something that didnt go for what you wanted and you can't accept it. Plain and simple.

:What I do delete is anything that creates a hassle for me that's not in plain view for everyone here to see.

And Karl's post did that how exactly? Or Crazy Penguins post in response to other issues. Or perhaps Harumiko who was just totally lost in thought and asking a question. All he did was just relay a message to the fans. That is something that YOU DO all the time. You CANNOT say that you don't. Suddenly Karl cannot either - in a public forum which YOU SET UP? If you can't explain Karl's you can at least explain mine because what you just said up there in my honest opinion doesnt equate for a hill of beans sir.

:I may have started the ball rolling initially (in your views)

you DID satrt the threads going

:, but I have left well enough alone since, preferring to let people judge for themselves not that the book is out.

Yesss. And I suppose you were doing the exact same thing when you posted that preview page of M25YL or got everybody hyped up by that thread below.

:If people accept it, great. If not, I laid an egg, and I have to accept the consequences of that action.

Well brother, you laid a polka dotted chartuese bomb of an egg if thats the case.

:What I don't have to do is participate in a discussion that was better left alone.

Then why did you bring this topic up again? I certainly didn't. And furthermore why are you deleting all responses that are perfectly valid? Because there are QUITE a bit who are NOT made by Archie company or include his name. That reeks to me of not leaving anything better left alone.

Of course - in the end this will probably be deleted too. Dont worry. The SHQ and TSF and SVT messageboards have been keeping tabs should anybody want the missing posts.

[Wittymations]

Wow, that's some crazy stuff. I knew he engaged in slap fights on the Internet, but I didn't think he was all into crazy censorship, given his current board.

 

Then again, judging by the posts there, he wasn't into it back then either, but this was a reaaaaaaaaaaallly touchy subject for him.

 

I wonder if there's any archives of his old board.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Hey Hey look! A full 100 pages of talking about this crappy rip off! 

 

But seriously, It's a surprise he still went on like this back when he was still writing the book and clearly shows he can't handle criticism which also connects with the whole questions thing at the Super Con. He must seriously think M25YL was the most brilliant thing drawn and written on paper >.>

[horridus]

What else would you expect from a man who quit his job because his employers began to tell him he had to make further use of game characters, characters that were a part of the franchise to which he had been licensed to write for mind you, and then after leaving over that fact went right back around and tried to convince the company whose characters he scorned into letting HIM take charge of writing for a major theatrical adaptation of their best selling product? 

 

The ego and hypocrisy of this man is boundless. As I said... he does more than enough to make himself look like some kind of cartoonish caricature of a man. Why else would we have enough material on him to LAST a hundred pages? XD

[Linkabel]

Here's the pilot for The Republic which apparently was going to be a Web series:

Dat opening

[Tatters]

Dat opening indeed and I thought was made by a fourteen year old.

Already 2 minutes into the video and I can't stand it. 

[Captain Fun]

 

Damn. Is it weird that this image actually makes me feel a little bad for him? 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Damn. Is it weird that this image actually makes me feel a little bad for him? 

I can't say I sympathize given how egotistical he's been.

[Delta Starfire]

Damn. Is it weird that this image actually makes me feel a little bad for him? 

 

Not as far as I'm concerned, no. I feel a little bad for him too. It is possible to feel both contempt and pity for someone, after all.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just wondering but did anyone else ever notice weird habits between the characters back when Penders and Bollers was writing? For example, in the archives I have, for some reason every character keeps calling Amy ''Amy Rose''. So Nate says to Amy ''No you can not go with us Amy Rose'' and stuff like that. 

[Delta Starfire]

Just wondering but did anyone else ever notice weird habits between the characters back when Penders and Bollers was writing? For example, in the archives I have, for some reason every character keeps calling Amy ''Amy Rose''. So Nate says to Amy ''No you can not go with us Amy Rose'' and stuff like that. 

 

When she first appeared in #25, she was introduced as "Amy Rose the Hedgehog". Maybe the writers were under the impression that "Amy Rose" was a double barrelled name like "Jenny May" or "Mary Jane" or something? Or maybe they just wanted every single character to sound like Teal'c. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Yeah but It's a mistake that should have been fixed and fast for that matter. This was around Sonic Adventure where It had been at least 5 years since Amy's intro and especially the time when Sega was putting focus on her as a character. It's like if Tails kept saying to Sonic ''Oh there you are Sonic the Hedgehog! How are you Sonic the Hedgehog?'' and Sonic replied ''I'm great Miles ''Tails'' Prower! How are you doing today Miles ''Tails'' Prower?''

[Candescence]

Gene is a relatively respected member of the community, so I don't see much reason to doubt this tale. It makes sense too. But man, somehow it's not surprising that a mostly non-profit fangame like Freedom Planet is getting more attention than someone trying to make a profit of ripoff characters and pretending they're totally original.. sigh.

Actually, Freedom Planet isn't non-profit anymore, and not a fangame. Though, to be fair, it also happily embraces its influences and transcends them to become an absolutely incredible game that really does look and feel like its own thing. Funny how the best Sonic game ever isn't even a Sonic game.

 

Which makes for a hilarious contrast to the Lara-Su Chronicles.

[horridus]

Aye, and it also highlights just how little real confidence Penders has in his own ideas; he NEEDS the Sonic connection more than anything, and has no real clue of how to parlay any of his ideas or concepts into original content that might be able to attract fans of their own merit. It's pathetic. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

More news from Twitter.

 

So apparently selling out of Sonic Super Special Magazine Number 4=Success for TL-SC -facepalm-

 

 https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/487478506415091712