Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Verb & Noun]

I posted what I did because it was in response to someone talking about LHT.

It could be that he was talking about the Impact thing and responded to the wrong thread, but it's hard to say with him. He misses the mark so often it's hard to tell if he does or doesn't intend something.

[Maeson]

...And again, i look somewhere else and when i come back something happens again.

I'm too late to make jokes about what incredible and plot twisting miracle secret thing Fuckles didn't tell to Lara-Su, but here i'm hoping that it has to be about why she looks like and old and skinny woman in this universe. Or that Mykhal Taelor is her long lost brother, and never could find him because he changes faces every 5 seconds.

Whatever it is, we're not going to know for a long, long time, if it happens. I only hope it's so stupidly crazy to make me laugh.

About the LHT issue... If I remember correcty, he wanted to copyright fan art of "his characters" because they used his material. If he has that way of seeing things with simple fan art, I'm not surprised he would act in a petty way with this matter; as that nasty and cruel Ian is connected to it.

Seeing his fixation for Ian and how much he seems to like to be noticed, I can imagine him as some kind of over the top cartoon villain "I hate that Flynn-hog!".

 

[Zaysho]

About the LHT issue... If I remember correcty, he wanted to copyright fan art of "his characters" because they used his material. If he has that way of seeing things with simple fan art, I'm not surprised he would act in a petty way with this matter; as that nasty and cruel Ian is connected to it.

It's not that he wanted to copyright fan art itself, he just wanted people to acknowledge his ownership of his characters.

I suppose it's not unreasonable, but it's kind of needless policing nobody really does to my knowledge.

LHT does have a disclaimer saying it doesn't represent the intentions of the copyright holders... but I suppose that'd require Penders to actually read the thing and loosen up.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

...And again, i look somewhere else and when i come back something happens again.

I'm too late to make jokes about what incredible and plot twisting miracle secret thing Fuckles didn't tell to Lara-Su, but here i'm hoping that it has to be about why she looks like and old and skinny woman in this universe.

 

It's never too late. Any jokes you make are still going to be more timely than any of Penders' output.

[Maeson]

It's not that he wanted to copyright fan art itself, he just wanted people to acknowledge his ownership of his characters.

I suppose it's not unreasonable, but it's kind of needless policing nobody really does to my knowledge.

LHT does have a disclaimer saying it doesn't represent the intentions of the copyright holders... but I suppose that'd require Penders to actually read the thing and loosen up.

Hmmm. Yeah, there's a difference there. Thanks for the correction. I find it as unnecessary as you.

 

It's never too late. Any jokes you make are still going to be more timely than any of Penders' output.

Damn. Shot's fired.

 

EDIT: And now he talks about GamerGate and seems to be in Zoe Quinn's side?

Jesus Christ, this guy...

Edited November 10, 2015 by Maeson

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Does this madness ever end?

And I just found out that Ian Flynn recently closed my the Lara-Su Chronicles thread on Bumbleking.

I'm surprised that it even survived 87 pages.

[ZDozer]

I think he's just trying to avoid increasing the fire between him and Penders. But I surely would like to know his view on Penders' shittiness.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Being honest, I think Ian is being too strict with the TL-SC thread, and it's honestly why I decided to move talking about it here. As long as it's not personal attacks and such (Which has occurred before, and has been taken care of by the mods), I don't see why we can't discuss the idiotic moves of a has-been who won't stop his attacks on other writers and Sonic fans in general. Why is it fair game to discuss developers and assholes in the game industry who act like smug pricks because they got away with something (The entire Aliens: Colonel Marines nonsense was the big example of that), but not fair game to talk about a has-been writer who thinks he's invincible from Sega/Archie and thinks he has every right to rip off their characters.  

[Zaysho]

I kinda don't blame Flynn for shutting down a thread about Penders on his own board. It's just one less headache for him--knowing Penders, he'd probably find some way to kick dust up over there being a thread on an active writer's board. Flynn just wants no part of this.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Zaysho

[ZDozer]

I wish karma could hit Penders with full force. Y'know, turn him bankrupt or making him sell his character's rights to SEGA or Archie. That would be the day for me.

[horridus]

If either were to occur the fandom would be briefly united in celebration. Be a sight to see. 

Anyway, count me in the group who doesn't blame Flynn for putting the kibosh on the thread. It's his website, and what happens there will ultimately reflect on him regardless of his actual involvement, and further reflect on Archie since he's a fairly prominent employee. Given the kind of responses that Penders provokes in people, and his history of a past employee at Archie (one with a less than stellar history with the company currently), it'd look bad. Yes, it reeks that he has to do this, particularly since Penders is allowed to accuse Flynn of being a plagiarist on his own forum and constantly takes potshots at the guy on his twitter, but at the end of the day, Flynn is a hired professional who works for an actual company and answers to his employers. Penders does not, being an unemployed malcontent who is free to make an ass of himself. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is. 

If nothing else, think of it this way; this is just further proof that Flynn is an actual pro, while Penders is still just a wannabe. 

As to the Gamergate stuff... given the strong opinions that tend to arise on either side of the issue, I suggest that we just leave that one for elsewhere. We don't need to get bogged down elaborating and debating THAT landmine. That being said, having read over Penders bringing up topics such as misogyny, I once again find it incredible that he can so easily speak as if he were a feminist or a progressive of any sort, given the treatment of female characters in his past AND current work. 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I can't blame him for closing it. After he closed the more general Penders thread in the sonic section. I was kind of opportunist and moved the discussion to the general section of the forum (Because Flynn didn't consider TLSC as part of the Archie Sonic universe anymore). I'm still surprised that my thread survived that long.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

And there we have it. Penders is going after Archie again, this time because an Agreement was Breeched. More Legal Antics are about to ensue.

[ZDozer]

Breached where? They are so paranoid that they are avoiding anything that isn't made by SEGA or Ian Flynn. They fucked up the entire comic to be able to avoid the name "Penders".

Edited November 13, 2015 by ZDozer

[Zaysho]

I dunno why, but reading "I consider Archie's latest app part of the breach of the agreement and will be included in forthcoming action" just made me think he's mad Archie has a comic app when he's working on one himself.

I know that isn't it, but I'm so used to him claiming domain of the most basic ideas, it's kinda hard to not think of that joke.

In all seriousness, I'm assuming this is about Impact, as people have been saying, right? I doubt they breached anything Sonic related, because almost every single issue has been republished in some fashion at this point, bar the back end of the Knuckles series, and are still available in one form or another, with no new material based on them. So I'm a little curious about the details--has his Impact work been republished on the app? Is he actually due anything for this? I remember reading that the Impact contracts did promise royalties, so he would be owed something if that is the case.

I wish he'd just stay quiet, because the same cryptic nonsense is what's going to get him jumped on, as it did already when he brought this up before. At least wait until the damn case goes to court.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Zaysho

[horridus]

But then how would Penders get his precious attention~? 

Okay, so I decided to actually take a look at the App, any recent releases to do with Impact Comics. Found an article and the page itself. 

Take a look at what's available. 

http://archiecomics.com/dark-circle-comics-launches-ambitious-digital-library-featuring-debut-of-impact-comics-return-of-the-new-crusaders/

https://www.comixology.com/Archie-Dark-Circle-Comics/comics-publisher/8-73?ref=cHVibGlzaGVyL3ZpZXcvZGVza3RvcC9pbXByaW50TGlzdA

You know what ISN'T there? Captain Comet or Jaguar, the two books for the Impact Line that he did work on. Which amounted to two and a third issues (despite claiming that he was a penciler/inker for Captain Comet, he did not pencils was only one of three inkers). They're not reprinting his work. So... yeah, I'm officially stumped.

[Zaysho]

Is he mad they're not reprinting his work...? Like, this whole thing just gets weirder. And now that I think about it, two and half years would line up right when the Sonic comic cut off ties with the old material... but that can't possibly be relevant anymore. If they're not reprinting his work anyway, what else could he want, and why is the app considered a breach of their agreement? I really don't know what to make of this anymore.

And just backing up... one of those books he was only an inker on? Gosh, but I thought they didn't count. I mean, aren't they only craftsmen that provide the finishing look and are totally interchangeable?

[horridus]

Indeed. He wasn't even the primary inker on that one either; he was one of *three* guys. And you know, you might have been joking earlier, but now I really DO wonder if this is about Archie making an App before him... because I am really, really trying to see what else there COULD be, given that his work evidently ISN'T being reprinted.

In other news...

... Penders has a defender. Whose insights seem to be a little skewed. A little REALLY skewed. 

[biznizz]

So lemme get this straight. Penders is threatening legal action against Archie again, because there's a new comics app which will re-distribute a now defunt superhero line they did back then... of which included stuff that Penders did. But for only a few issues... which aren't even included in said app... save for ONE comic which he shared inking duties on?

 

As Zaysho pointed out, didn't Penders himself assertain in his US Copyright Claim for his IP (stories, characters, art) that inkers did not contribute to a creative process, thus proving a precedent that he, Penders, did not expect or believe inkers to have any claim to said artwork?

[QuantumEdge]

So lemme get this straight. Penders is threatening legal action against Archie again, because there's a new comics app which will re-distribute a now defunt superhero line they did back then... of which included stuff that Penders did. But for only a few issues... which aren't even included in said app... save for ONE comic which he shared inking duties on?

 

As Zaysho pointed out, didn't Penders himself assertain in his US Copyright Claim for his IP (stories, characters, art) that inkers did not contribute to a creative process, thus proving a precedent that he, Penders, did not expect or believe inkers to have any claim to said artwork?

As far as I know, this seems to be the reason for the second hullabaloo.  Frankly, assuming this is the reason, I've never seen such hypocritical pettiness in all my life.  No doubt people will call him out for it, reminding him of his past words on inkers, so I'm  really going to enjoy how he's going to dodge the bullet this time.  If he says he's changed his mind though, I will definitely be laughing.

[horridus]

So lemme get this straight. Penders is threatening legal action against Archie again, because there's a new comics app which will re-distribute a now defunt superhero line they did back then... of which included stuff that Penders did. But for only a few issues... which aren't even included in said app... save for ONE comic which he shared inking duties on?

 

As Zaysho pointed out, didn't Penders himself assertain in his US Copyright Claim for his IP (stories, characters, art) that inkers did not contribute to a creative process, thus proving a precedent that he, Penders, did not expect or believe inkers to have any claim to said artwork?

Three works, actually; two issues of Jaguar, one issue of Captain Comet. He worked as a penciller and layout guy for Jaguar, and LISTS himself as a penciller and inker for Captain Comet. However, this is a misrepresentation on his part, as that issue doesn't list him as a penciller and he is one of three inkers who worked on it. Last I checked, neither Jaguar or Captain Comet appears to be a part of the Impact Comics being re-sold that app. Nothing of his is being reprinted, and as such, there shouldn't be any issue. So what he's going on about now is... I don't even know, really. 

And yes, yes he did. 

He quite explicitly stated that he does not regard inkers as being creators, not in the same sense as writers or pencillers (or 'layout guys'). 

[Agie]

"for whatever reason, Mike's name was usually listed first, even though I was the one conducting"

Good to see he was conducting himelf like a "professional" all around here, too.

[Starchaser]

It took me forever to remember my password, ugh.

If this whole kerfluffle is about Archie's new comic app (and it's not the first comic app Archie's released iirc?) then it's kind of sad, because he can't copyright the idea of a comic app in general. They existed long before he started the Lara-Su Chronicles spin off, and Archie is hardly infringing on his ideas when there have been apps that scrape webcomic sites for several years now (among others).

The fact that nobody's seen this app is interesting; you'd think he'd be pasting screenshots everywhere to show off how much he's been working? There's no documentation of it's existence, just a few tweets mentioning it, so even the "I DID IT FIRST" thing won't fly. You need proof of a thing's existence before you can claim someone stole your idea.

EDIT: And now he talks about GamerGate and seems to be in Zoe Quinn's side?

Jesus Christ, this guy...

I don't want to talk about gamergate itself but this is honestly a pretty expected move by him. He likes to pretend he's a feminist whilst working from a very, uh, 1950s point of view towards gender stuff*. It's highly unlikely he knows anything about the reactionary movement or the situations behind it, but throwing support behind the girl makes him a Good Feminist(TM) right?

It's kind of like how he plagiarised the Holocaust poem and pretended it was okay because he had jewish friends.

(* Some things Penders has written could be considered progressive if we weren't in the mid 2010s.)

[Tenko]

As I mentioned elsewhere. If it's about the app in itself then I don't understand his logic. It’s a redesign of their old app…not technically a “new” app or product, as far as digital products I would hope updating would come under the same umbrella as the original product. I would be rather shocked if the court agreed with his stance on this, it would mean that Archie would have to keep the same dated app up on the store forever otherwise. They shouldn’t need to consult with each and every old writer or artist etc every time they update the app. It does the same thing and serves the same purpose as the original… a way to read the Archie brand comics digitally. Again it isn’t a “new” product.

If it's about the new content of the app, again he doesn't really have a case since as has been pointed out, the issues he contributed to are not even up for grabs on it. As always the man is baffling. Perhaps he was still planning on offering some of the old Knuckles issues himself on his app and is shitty that Archie are again offering "his" stuff for sale via another format (even tho it's technically the same as their old app). Pretty sure on his old forums he went on about how he was able to distribute "directors cut's" of the Knuckles issues as all the stories are his etc...even tho that sounds like a downright preposterous idea, and I very much doubt him getting the rights for distribution of a series of comics revolving around a character and world that don't belong to him were part of this out of court settlement.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Penders doesn't have a leg to stand on. The updated Archie app is using the same system IDW apps have switched to. 

I wish Penders would just stop with his fucking cryptic bullshit and straight out say what he's even talking about. This is just desperate and I sincerely hope this time he gets his fucking comeuppance.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's doing this to use this as an excuse for why TL-SC is still delayed.