Sonic Lost World @ Gamescom

[Scar]

I mean, if I can get 60fps, a better gameplay style, more levels, more content, with a slightly less powerful than "omghd" quality graphics engine like Hedgehog Engine, I'll gladly take it. 

 

 

The visual "sacrifices", aren't necessary for performance increases. We are afterall, on more powerful platforms now. Besides, the actual Hedgehog Engine is obsolete and was pretty inefficient at what it was trying to do anyway. There are far more sophisticated graphics engines out there, that can  provide exceptional visuals, without a ridiculous performance overhead.

[Chaos Warp]

If I can say my piece on the artstyle since I missed the discussion last night..........................Yes I am indeed bringing this up and you can elect not to respond if you feel sick of the discussion.

 

I really did love the detail of Unleashed, Colours and Generations. I think those games look beautiful, and when I saw Lost World's artstyle I was initially disappointed. Where did all the detail go that I loved in the classic games, the Unleashed trilogy, and so on? Etc etc. But as I heard more things about the game I realized the artstyle had it's benefits, such as making 60 FPS easier to achieve, more of the environment interact-able and possibly allowing for more content. And of course I won't say it looks bad, just not as good as the boost trilogy to me. But if we ever see a Sonic game on the PS4/X1 I don't want them to use Lost World's style again because there would be no point to it. On a more powerful console they could use the Generations artstyle and make 60 FPs easily. They don't even have to focus on the backgrounds as much as they did in the Boost trilogy, they could focus more on making the playable space pretty looking and not have it use so much time to render. But if they could and also have more playable space then they should go for it. As much as the boost trilogy was overly linear sometimes I loved how the levels were dripping in atmosphere.

 

So tl:dr not the hugest fan of the style itself but fan of the benefits, but where the benefits would be null and void due to extra console power I don't want it.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Soniman]

I don't think any sacrifices are even made, the graphics look fantastic and they look more and more good the more I see of it. Everything pops out and therefore sticks out in a unique way, the fact I can interact with most of it kakes it sweeter. And for the record, there is graphical detail to be found if you look hard enough.

[Chaos Warp]

I don't think any sacrifices are even made, the graphics look fantastic and they look more and more good the more I see of it. Everything pops out and therefore sticks out in a unique way, the fact I can interact with most of it kakes it sweeter. And for the record, there is graphical detail to be found if you look hard enough.

I won't say there's no graphical detail at all, but there is less in the environment then there was in the boost trilogy and to me that's a sacrifice. But one of the trade-offs is that I can interact with much more of the environment and I can deal with the less detail look then. 

Edited August 26, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[azoo]

Ever since Silent Forest and Frozen Factory shots I've almost completely taken back what I said about the art style any time before. Although I'd like a good bit more detail and organic environments next time, the vibrant usage of color, geometrical flora and super crisp and clean designs for the badniks, items, and other things I want to see come back forever.

 

The only stage so far that I think doesn't look as good as it should is probably Desert Ruins, because of how plain yellow it is. Making it more orange and less shockingly bright would've made it blend with the background blues, greens and reds a bit more, as well as made the triangular pattern stick out too. Plus, it would've just looked less jarring and more attractive as a stage.

 

Other than that, I can't see whats so terribly foreign about all of this. I know its far from anything we've ever got in a 3D Sonic before, but these environments are looking more and more like Sonic CD and Saturn-era settings every time I look at it. And considering how much of a burning passion I have for those styles, I love this. It doesn't look "Mario" at all. It looks Segasonic as hell, in fact moreso than anything else in a long time (with minor Galaxy influence). XD

Edited August 26, 2013 by Master Azonkonion

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Eh, this Gamescom was pretty damn entertaining from the awesome screenshots to 60fps videos to the trailer. Was all great to see.

 

Honestly guys. I'll take parkour over Hedgehog Engine.

 

I mean, if I can get 60fps, a better gameplay style, more levels, more content, with a slightly less powerful than "omghd" quality graphics engine like Hedgehog Engine, I'll gladly take it. 

 

But I would like too see more grounded and not in the sky levels next time, with city and all the more Sonic-y tropes too. Another cool thing like a World Adventure would be nice haha.

 

Hm, the music. Eh. I'm not kidding, so far I find this OST eh. Desert Ruins is all boring for me, the candy one being the only that I find cool. Oh wait, the honeycomb one, yeah. That's good but I would have had something a bit more foresty but I like it. Windy Hill is good, but not really something I really can listen a lot too. Frozen Factory stuff, I really haven't listened much but they're there for me. This is really my musical opinions, but I'm sure this OST will grow on me. I mean the candy one did.

 

I'm really counting on the Aquarium Park esque level and Sky Sanctuary esque levels to deliver awesome music! AND awesome remixes of those! 

 

Yeah, can't wait to see what else we have in store and play this game! that is...2 or more years later or maybe only after i become adult ;-----------;

Except this game does use the hedgehog engine and less detailed environments do not in any way correspond with a less powerful lighting engine. The game also has added effects like depth of field, and from what I can tell also has a larger render distance (don't quote me on that though, I could be dead wrong) as well as possibly being a lot better optimised if it's able to run at 60FPS.

[Scar]

Except this game does use the hedgehog engine and less detailed environments do not in any way correspond with a less powerful lighting engine. The game also has added effects like depth of field, and from what I can tell also has a larger render distance (don't quote me on that though, I could be dead wrong) as well as possibly being a lot better optimised if it's able to run at 60FPS.

What evidence do you have to suggest that this game uses the Hedgehog Engine....?

[azoo]

I'm starting to think that people see global illumination in places and automatically assume its the Hedgehog Engine.

 

No doubt they're probably still forever enhancing what they had from that and slipping it into everything (they worked on that engine for a long time), but its definitely not the same engine it was in 2008.

[Indigo Rush]

Global Illumination =/= Hedgehog Engine.

 

The Hedgehog Engine was impressive for its time, but it's a pain to render isn't necessary to make Sonic Lost World's graphics pop out and shine. There is GI, but it's undertoned in favor of the cel-shadish graphics.

[ArtFenix]

Here's a checklist of what I think is classic Sonic level design, I'll check off what is in Windy Hill 4.2

-Flow ✓

-Momentum based gameplay ✓ (Well, sort of. The spin dash takes you further off ramps than running off of them, but the zero gravity-based gameplay and camera keep Sonic stuck to the ground on downward slopes.)

 

 

If there's anything SLoW doesn't have, it's physics (momentum) and flow . The first I will not enev explain as it's so obvious it doesn't need any explanation. As for the flow, the game constantly makes you stop whether you want it or not. Boost games had amazing flow when you could easily play a level from start to finish at super-fast speed. That was any speed runner's heavens xD.

Edited August 26, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Indigo Rush]

So when you were playing Sonic Lost World, how exactly did Sonic's movements feel?

[Soniman]

The boost games like Colors and Gens had such amazing flow that you had to slow down your pace whenever a 2D section sprung up right?

[ArtFenix]

The boost games like Colors and Gens had such amazing flow that you had to slow down your pace whenever a 2D section sprung up right?

Still much better than a full stop that you have to do in SLoW. Often.

Nice try though)).

Edited August 26, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Diogenes]

Good flow requires ebb as its natural counterpart. I don't think SLoW has any particular great insights into that kind of rhythm, but the boost games were terrible at it.

[Cyrus]

If there's anything SLoW doesn't have, it's physics (momentum) and flow . The first I will not enev explain as it's so obvious it doesn't need any explanation.

Props on backing up your points, broham.

Still much better than a full stop that you have to do in SLoW. Often.Nice try though)).

When does that ever happen in SLW? Thr only times I can remember a full stop is when the interviewee stops to talk about or show of something. Even the logs in the waterfall don't seem to require waiting to jump on, since there's so many to land on in case you go full speed ahead. Edited August 26, 2013 by @ut0

[Celestia]

Most of the gameplay footage we've seen has been people who are playing the game for the first time (meaning they're getting used to everything) or SEGA employees who are busy talking to someone about the game (therefore they can't just focus on going through the level). So, I don't think what we've seen is a good indication of how much flow the game has.

 

Unless people who have played the game at Sonic Boom/etc. can say otherwise?

[Blitz 'n Burst]

The Hedgehog Engine was impressive for its time, but it's a pain to render isn't necessary to make Sonic Lost World's graphics pop out and shine. There is GI, but it's undertoned in favor of the cel-shadish graphics.

Where do you see cel-shading in any of this

Global Illumination =/= Hedgehog Engine.

Cartoony graphics=/=cel shading

 

And even if it doesn't use the Hedgehog Engine itself, my comment still applies - the game has the exact same quality of lighting, if not better lighting, so the lighting engine doesn't come into this at all. Just replace "Hedgehog Engine" with "fancy graphics engine of choice" and problem solved

 

(even tho tbh the lighting techniques used in this game aren't near as impressive as they were five years ago)

Edited August 26, 2013 by Blitz 'n Burst

[Hero of Legend]

For the next Sonic game on Wii U (aka the 3rd mystery game, which I'm banking being on Wii U first rather than 3DS exclusive), I'm hoping it takes many cues from Mario Kart 8 visually, MK8 of all games show the kind of lighting, shadowing, and detail you can achieve on Wii U in glorious 60fps.

 

However, they need to keep the better colors and more classic look of Lost World, something that Gens to me kinda missed the point of, I think the Boost Trilogy is "too much" so to speak. I always thought Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz graphics and style (it runs in 60fps to boot) would be perfect for Sonic, and this is pretty damn close, now if it had the same music...

[Indigo Rush]

*cel shade-ISH

 

Jeez man.

[ArtFenix]

When does that ever happen in SLW? Thr only times I can remember a full stop is when the interviewee stops to talk about or show of something. Even the logs in the waterfall don't seem to require waiting to jump on, since there's so many to land on in case you go full speed ahead.

I really doubt you watched a single gameplay video of SLoW. It happens constantly.

[Indigo Rush]

I think you're grossly overexaggerating the amount of stop-and-go platforming in the game. There's still some speed to be had, but the general departure from GOTTAGOFAST is a wonderful thing right now.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[azoo]

I really doubt you watched a single gameplay video of SLoW. It happens constantly.

I think you jumped over what he was saying. Every time it happens, its usually an interviewer talking about the game (and thus too distracted to play right). Not many people are that great at talking and playing at the same time. As for other people, its usually their first time playing it, so people don't know how to go through the stages properly until getting full grasp of it.

 

There hasn't been much if any videos of people blasting through the levels in this game because the gameplay is new and different, and you can't just jump into that without having to learn. The fact that the stages are so short in length doesn't help that either.

 

As for any demonstrational videos (like the ones used for preview footage), those seem to have decent flow to them, and when they're stopping its usually to show off the environment or the enemies in it.

 

I remember seeing one guy rocket through Windy Hill, as proof of some sort of flow, but I wish I had the link to it. It was done a while ago though and I'm on bad internet.

[Soniman]

 

If THAT isn't the most pure example of great flow then I don't know what to tell you.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Soniman

[Cyrus]

I really doubt you watched a single gameplay video of SLoW.

It happens constantly.

Like Soniman and I said, stops were made because a rep was talking about something or showing something off. And outside of interviews, the players were either first time players, or incompetent at the game, trying to figure out what to do.

@1:16 Oh yeah, that sudden pause was totally the game's fault, not because the player didn't know that he could just spin dash into the motobug then double jump to get back on the licorice.

Edited August 26, 2013 by @ut0

[Kuzu]

Did any one ever consider that the reason that the game seems slower is because platformers by nature are slow? Sonic is no exception