Sonic Lost World @ Gamescom

[SuperLink]

At least they're not taking long-running franchises you've loved your whole life and turning it into something you dislike right in front of you. ... Unless you're a huge Bomberman fanatic, in which case I'm very sorry, and I understand completely.

 

Forgive me, I'm still extremely salty.

I love Bomberman, but to be honest I'm more salty that they killed the series forever in favour or more realistic "AAA" games. It makes me think that if Metal Gear wasn't hugely successful they would have stopped making it years ago in favour of rebooting some other Konami series beyond what people recognised and loved.

Plus, I know this Sonic is different, but is it really so different that everything is ruined for you? I think it's a bit of an overreaction! This is NOTHING like Bomberman Act Zero, this is like a cartoony game becoming a different kind of cartoony for one game in the series so far!

Solly hit the nail on the head, how you can think this is a worse sign for the future of the series than Sonic 06 is beyond me.

 

Anyway, that particular level immediately brought this up in my head.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkMorx4gDQ

 

If they keep going in this direction, I guess it'd just be safe to say Sonic isn't for me anymore.

Did you even play that level? There are tons of levels like that throughout platforming history, pretty sure Banjo Kazooie, Spyro, and maybe even Crash had stuff like that too. Plus Monkey Ball was kinda a whole game franchise based on that loose concept.. and Billy Hatcher had many whole levels dedicated to that gimmick of riding eggs.

Honestly it sounds to me like you're reading way too deeply into the Nintendo exclusitivity and seeing Mario likeness in one too many places.

PS. I won't deny that the planetoid thing is Mario-y, and colour-scheme wise it looks a bit Mario-y

But that's only because Mario is like the only popular game with cartoony colours anymore.

Seriously when you get a game with realistic looking people, textures and colours you don't say it's an Uncharted ripoff. Sure they might look similar but only in art style. I find it fascinating how a game looking like Mario is a no go but a game looking like anything else is unspoken but ok.

I don't think Nintendo ever made a rule that exempts them from people ever making games that look similar to theirs, because lots of other developers out there make games that look similar to other games and people stopped calling them out for it and got used to it. Mario isn't the only cartoony game.

Edited August 25, 2013 by SuperLink

[Rinzler]

I thought we were all saying that Slw looked like Sonic X-treme...

[SuperLink]

I thought we were all saying that Slw looked like Sonic X-treme...

We gave up once SEGA started saying the resemblance wasn't intentional in the slightest.

 

Even if X-Treme did use a lot of these tropes like 5million years ago or whenever the 90s were.

[Rinzler]

So we actually believed Sega's PR?

That's a first.

[TrueBlue]

I can see the Mario comparisons in regards to the floaty platforms and the cartoony nature of the graphics. Aside from that, I'm not really seeing it. It still feels like Sonic to me. Sure, he might be traversing Galaxy-esque tubes a lot of the time, but the way he's doing it feels quite unique and well...Sonic-y. At least to me.

[Solly]

I'm honestly digging the Mario influence, both because I think they're making it work well in their favor, and because Mario's really just a much better overall franchise. It's not as if Lost World doesn't have an identity of its own or anything, and it's also not like they're blatantly ripping off of something that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Whenever people complain that it's not Sonic enough, I never really know how to react. Up until recently, there has been so little consistency between Sonic games, from both an artistic and gameplay standpoint, that I don't see how people can isolate one single game as "not Sonic enough."

 

But what's really insane to me, is that there are people who, after suffering through games like Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Rivals, Black Knight etc, THIS is the game that makes them think about jumping ship because it reminds them of Mario. I respect everyone's views and all but I've seen this reaction elsewhere too, and it's honestly baffling.

[Sami]

But that's only because Mario is like the only popular game with cartoony colours anymore.

Seriously when you get a game with realistic looking people, textures and colours you don't say it's an Uncharted ripoff. Sure they might look similar but only in art style. I find it fascinating how a game looking like Mario is a no go but a game looking like anything else is unspoken but ok.

I don't think Nintendo ever made a rule that exempts them from people ever making games that look similar to theirs, because lots of other developers out there make games that look similar to other games and people stopped calling them out for it and got used to it. Mario isn't the only cartoony game.

 

Fine. I'll stay completely objective on the matter then -

 

Sonic: Lost World is a game that has an art style and design philosophy that differs greatly from what's been established in the franchise's past. This new art style and design philosophy is one that reminds me of another long-running franchise that I am not particularly fond of. This radical change in art style and design philosophy directly follows two of my absolute favorite games in the series, after a decade-long running series of games whose quality either disappointed me, upset me, angered me, or physically hurt me. This very jarring change vastly differs from those two games of which I referred to as "some of the greatest in the series' history, and the perfect direction for Sonic". There is, out of everything being shown, only one aspect of this new design philosophy that I find unique, interesting, and to my liking is the "parkour system" - whereas everything else I have seen is the exact opposite of my preference.

 

I do not like Sonic Lost World because it represents a shift in design philosophy and tone that makes it align itself more with something that I am not particularly fond of. I liked the direction the franchise seemed to be going in over the past few years, and it saddens me greatly to see that progress thrown out the window in favor of reinventing the wheel so that it more closely resembles another company's.

 

Better?

[Chaos Warp]

FUCKING HELL ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

I sure hope not~ ♥

 

I mean, they have to have some people working on a not Wii U exclusive game, right? Surely the Unleashed team is making a new game right now that doesn't take the franchise in a radical new direction that I really don't like and reminds me way too much of Mario? Right? Right? ... (⊙ u⊙)

Even if they are one team now, doesn't mean they can't work on a non-exclusive game after they are done with Lost World which could possibly be more to your liking. That doesn't have to mean what you are assuming.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Blitz 'n Burst]

HEY, HE SAID HE DIDN'T LIKE THE GAME

GET 'IM

[Straw Hat]

Yay, back to the Mario comparisons.... -__-

[Scar]

I feel like people are dismissing what Discoid is suggesting, reflexively.

Lost Worlds, genuinely does pervade a sense of Mario to me. The way everything looks. The way some levels are structured. 

I can deal with that for a single game, I just don't want to see this become the norm for the franchise.

 

But what's really insane to me, is that there are people who, after suffering through games like Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Rivals, Black Knight etc, THIS is the game that makes them think about jumping ship because it. I respect everyone's views and all but I've seen this reaction elsewhere too, and it's honestly baffling.

 

Plenty of people were on the verge of jumping ship when those games were made. Heck, I'm sure plenty of fans did straight up walk away from the franchise. See the thing is, if things stay this way a few people will just stop buying the games. If things go back to as they were before, or change into something they can get behind, they'll come back.

 

By the way, this is purely talking on a visual, and level design front. At least for me. I like the idea behind Sonic's new controls, I'm just not sure they're up to snuff. Looks too clunky and unrefined at this stage for me. I dislike the visuals; acceptable though they are, I don't want them to stay this way for the forseeable future, though I could deal with it. I really really, dislike the level design, and the floating tube design mentality. Fine for a spinoff, absolutely not suitable for the franchise as a mainstay.

Yay, back to the Mario comparisons.... -__-

 

...And they're perfectly valid.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Scar

[TrueBlue]

HEY, HE SAID HE DIDN'T LIKE THE GAME

GET 'IM

 

Please. I don't think anyone is "getting" anyone. It's just a perfectly civil discussion over what certain people like and dislike about the game. Sure, there may be more users that hold one opinion over the other, but I don't think anyone has really jumped on Discoid or anyone else as of yet. Unless they're being blatant trolls, which they're not.

[Straw Hat]

 ...And they're perfectly valid.

Never said they weren't valid... Just annoying.

[Sami]

For the record, I don't have a problem with this being a one-time thing either. It's a Nintendo-exclusive game that resembles a Nintendo-exclusive franchise that panders very heavily to Nintendo fans. That's totally cool and I get it.

 

I'm just very worried this won't be a one time thing.

 

oh, and if I were old enough to really understand how terrible SA2, Heroes, Shadow, and 06 were (I was in the fifth grade when 06 was in development, I think), I probably 

would have jumped ship. But College Freshman Dissy is a very different person from Elementary School Dissy, with very different tastes and very different standards.

Never said they weren't valid... Just annoying.

 

Love you too. ♥

[Blitz 'n Burst]

a lot of the art complaints do come from the tube design though. if they were to make a game in this style that wasn't all on a giant cylinder i don't think so many people would be complaining

[Kuzu]

While I understand people's criticism of the art style, I really can't bring myself to care because the series has been through so many artstyles, gameplay, and other various other changes that I'm certain there is absolutely no definitive Sonic style that anyone can agree on, which is why we have so many conflicting views.

 

Had the series used this artstyle since 1998 in Sonic Adventure, pretty sure we'd have a lot less complaints. But yea, I don't really think the artstyle is the problem but morso people just having extremely different ideals on what the franchise should be, and this is the result of Sega just being so fucking inconsistent for years.

 

I really hope this style does stay, just so Sonic can actually have a fucking definitive style once and for all so it can expand from there. But that's really, that's a pipe dream because Sega are just going to keep changing the franchise to what they see fit and probably don't give two shits about consistency

 

If people hate it, well tough fucking cookies, that's life. I'm not saying you don't matter, or that your criticisms aren't valid just that I don't feel why the franchise should keep on changing simply because a few people don't like it.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

I don't get the tube complaints because the level design itself seems a lot more robust and indepth than a lot of grounded 3D Sonic levels we've had in the past.

 

As long as it's fun and well designed I don't think it matters much.

[Rinzler]

Honestly the only level screams Mario Galaxy to me is Windy Hill and that one snowball level, which is a gimmick that has been done in countless other platformers. Probably because Mario is really the only other platforming juggernaut any gimmick that his games have used is automatically attributed to him and only him even.

 

All the other levels seem perfectly fine and have their own identity. I mean do Frozen Factory and Silent Forest really look like they copy SMG, which in itself used a gravity gimmick seen previously in SA2 and X-treme?

 

Edit:

 

oh, and if I were old enough to really understand how terrible SA2, Heroes, Shadow, and 06 were (I was in the fifth grade when 06 was in development, I think), I probably would have jumped ship. But College Freshman Dissy is a very different person from Elementary School Dissy, with very different tastes and very different standards.

This reminded me that it's been more than seven years since 06 was released.

Damn.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Captain Levi

[TrueBlue]

As others have said before, I think it'd be awesome for the new style to be implemented on more grounded environments (as in, not on floating tubes in the sky) for a sequel. That's the logical next step, assuming Lost World does okay.

[SuperLink]

Better, but

 

I do not like Sonic Lost World because it represents a shift in design philosophy and tone that makes it align itself more with something that I am not particularly fond of. I liked the direction the franchise seemed to be going in over the past few years, and it saddens me greatly to see that progress thrown out the window in favor of reinventing the wheel so that it more closely resembles another company's.

There is absolutely nothing inherently Nintendo about Sonic Lost World's design though.

 

Fair enough if Mario isn't your cup of tea, but Sonic isn't outright stealing Mario's identity and saying "it's not Sonic anymore it's Mario".

 

It has some similarities to Mario. It also has some similarities to every other platformer we used to play. If every dead and buried cartoony platformer from the 80s and 90s was still alive and kicking and producing new games in the HD era, this would be considered "another cartoony platformer" not a Mario ripoff. I'll just quote myself again;

 

Seriously when you get a game with realistic looking people, textures and colours you don't say it's an Uncharted ripoff. Sure they might look similar but only in art style. I find it fascinating how a game looking like Mario is a no go but a game looking like anything else is unspoken but ok.

I don't think Nintendo ever made a rule that exempts them from people ever making games that look similar to theirs, because lots of other developers out there make games that look similar to other games and people stopped calling them out for it and got used to it. Mario isn't the only cartoony game.

 

I accept that you don't like the artstyle, but it bugs me that you seem to only dislike it because you think it's being directly influenced by a single, hand-picked artstyle of a game that you dislike out of millions of artstyles out there in games and the millions of other games that re-use said artstyles.

 

Will anyone who hates the artstyle at least be slightly happy if the game garners positive reception and Sonic begins to get some respect again? It's not like positive reception means the whole series' future will be like that afterall.

 

When tons of other games out there look like each other and draw inspiration from each other all the time, why is it that the one series another series isn't possibly allowed to draw inspiration from is Mario? Draw inspiration from Crash? Sweet! Draw inspiration from LBP? Awesome! Draw inspiration from Mario? I'm done!

 

It's a Nintendo-exclusive game that resembles a Nintendo-exclusive franchise that panders very heavily to Nintendo fans.

It doesn't, it's just a time-slipped product of a bygone era, it's just one cartoony game that looks like another cartoony game, which unlike a realistic game taking inspiration from another realistic game (which you don't say "it resembles Uncharted" or "it resembles Battlefield"), can only mean that it's purposefully resembling one game and one game in particular? This is exactly what I don't get! If it's as cartoony as this, it can only possibly be because of the Mario series, not because it wants to be a different cartoony game, it must be 100% because of Mario.

 

Forgive the rant, but I'm tired of having to accept that realistic games are the mainstream now, and yet having to put up with the fact that we aren't even allowed cartoony games anymore because there's only certain styles you can try without shamefully copying what is inherently Mario's birthright and no one else's!

 

It's clear that people have very different tastes in games, which is ok!! But if we don't call an AAA game "CoD ripoff" or "GTA ripoff" for drawing inspirations from understandably influential games, why is it ok to say that this Sonic is taking everything from Mario to the point where you can't even view it as its own thing anymore?

Edited August 26, 2013 by SuperLink

[Scar]

I don't get the tube complaints because the level design itself seems a lot more robust and indepth than a lot of grounded 3D Sonic levels we've had in the past.

.....Not seeing it. The movement seems more robust, though it clearly has limitations of its own. The level design doesn't look like anything special, aside from being rolled up into tubes.

[Kuzu]

Just for the record, I don't disagree with what Dissy or Scar are saying. The Mario influence is obvious, I just don't feel it really drags the game down all that much and I'd rather give it a chance before condemning it on appearance alone.

 

But that's just me

Edited August 26, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Wraith]

I feel like saying it looks like Mario kinda undermines Mario and what he's all about. Even Mario Galaxy doesn't even look much like Lost World aesthetics wise. Mario Galaxy can be a fair bit more detailed.

 

 

  

 

 

In addition, we have Mario games that look like this now:

 

 

 

So yeah, I'd say it maybe looks a little bit like Super Mario Galaxy?  Talking about it like it completely ripped off Mario's identity and doesn't have any original flare of it's own doesn't make any sense to me, really.

 

It just....sounds more and more like you guys just didn't play much Mario, in which case I don't think you should be comparing it like this and treating it as a negative.

Edited August 26, 2013 by -Link-

[Soniman]

.....Not seeing it. The movement seems more robust, though it clearly has limitations of its own. The level design doesn't look like anything special, aside from being rolled up into tubes.

 

Then tell me what what you honestly consider "special" level design. Because from the play throughs I saw (especially the recent ones) it seems that each level as bursting at the seams with stuff to do, ways to go, and places to explore. Like there seem to be so many ways one can go about conquering the level and a lot of cool gimmicks and stuff, so you'll have to forgive me for not seeing how the level design looks so inferior compared to past games.

[Diogenes]

Man if they ditch what they learn from SLoW in favor of more shitty boost gameplay, that'd be it for me. I have no tolerance for the series diving back into that shithole.

.....Not seeing it. The movement seems more robust, though it clearly has limitations of its own. The level design doesn't look like anything special, aside from being rolled up into tubes.

It's not shitty narrow hallways and there's tons of paths and tons of places to transfer between them.