Sonic Lost World @ Gamescom

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Hopefully the next main series game will have Tails and Knuckles in multiplayer at least. I can understand them not being in the main story, but multiplayer?

Its called running scared, they are worried about any more bad opinions about other characters having any time in the limelight with strength other than sonic and eggman, so they are even using this as an excuse to make multiplayer boring, when its an excellent oppurtunity to make other characters that the fans have been asking for playable in such a way that it shouldnt effect the reviews

I mean eeven setting it up wouldnt be that hard, all you have to do is disable parkour and replace it with flight, or gliding and climbing 

[SuperLink]

Who are most people? Critics? The online fanbase? People are often quick to point out that the majority of sales come from kids. I doubt they care what people on the internet moan about when it comes to Sonic. I don't know about you, but if I was a kid now, I would be far more interested in the franchise if it had more story that also fleshed out its characters. Hell, the Adventures didn't do a great job, but it was enough to increase my enjoyment of the games and get me more invested in the franchise in general. Imagine if they tried again, using what they've actually learned from the past instead of simply throwing it all out.

 

They only have to make playable characters and a larger story work well for critics to accept them. It's as simple as that. Both would benefit the series greatly, allowing kids to get more attached to the various characters, thus shifting more and more merchandise and possibly even create enough demand for another cartoon, etc etc. That is to say nothing of how a story can enhance the overall gameplay experience. Fans still bang on about Adventure 2 being the best thing since sliced bread, despite its alternate gameplay and dodgy dialogue, and I'd guess that is due in no small part to the fact that the story and emphasis on characters made it so memorable to them.

Younger fans love SA2, the slightly older generation of fans (the one I had to put up with on forums the most when I was younger) are the ones who lost interest in Sonic because of "shitty story" and "shitty friends", and that goes for critics too. So yes, people who don't consider themselves Sonic fans generally, or people who game a lot but play other things are the ones who are typically are turned off Sonic having a story. These people are large in number, and while it sometimes seems like the "Adventure" generation of fans is huge too, it's not all that big when sales of SA2HD weren't exactly amazing, they're just very vocal. Sonic's story was far too common a criticism for people to ignore, reading any review or impression from older gamers made that annoyingly unavoidable sometimes.

 

I agree that a well-written story could really benefit Sonic, but I'm saying we're not gonna get that either because of how much people instantly run away in fear when they hear Sonic and story in the same context. It's the same as other playable characters.

 

Sonic has the misfortune of being one of the only gaming franchises ever that people generally automatically assume the worst of before even trying it, even now 7 years after the worst passed, people still say things like "Sonic is dead" or "they need to stop trying" without ever trying the games themselves. Unfortunately the only way they'll ever warm up to the series again is if SEGA stay away from dangerous buzzwords like "story" and "Sonic's friends" and egg them into giving it another go without scaring them off. It's bullshit and it's unfair, but maybe SEGA deserve it for the things they did in Sonic's past, I dunno.

 

That said, I'm not trying to have a go, in case it seems like that. My frustration is primarily aimed at Sonic Team or SEGA, whomever's calling the shots. I just feel that people are perfectly justified in complaining about the lack of a story.

Yeah they can complain and there's nothing wrong with that cause it does suck, but I'm saying it's not going to happen again because those who advocate Sonic having a story are the minority.

Edited August 23, 2013 by SuperLink

[Solly]

Hopefully the next main series game will have Tails and Knuckles in multiplayer at least. I can understand them not being in the main story, but multiplayer?

Characters in multiplayer need to be on equal footing if it's competitive. Tails and Knuckles would be expected to have different abilities, so Sonic recolors make sense.

[Balding Spider]

Characters in multiplayer need to be on equal footing if it's competitive. Tails and Knuckles would be expected to have different abilities, so Sonic recolors make sense.

They could've just made it Sonic V Metal Sonic.

[Chaos Warp]

They could've just made it Sonic V Metal Sonic.

Or hell, ever Sonic VS Shadow. They played the same in SA2.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I'm seriously laughign at the people comparing this to the classic games. I love the art direction and all, but it looks nothing like the Genesis games. Sonic Generations was far closer to the Genesis games than this is. Gush over the art direction all you want - Hell, I'm doing it plenty - but anybody who thinks this looks anything like the Genesis games is delusional.

 

edit: oops i posted this in the wrong topic :<

Edited August 23, 2013 by Blitz 'n Burst

[Balding Spider]

Or hell, ever Sonic VS Shadow. They played the same in SA2.

 

 

SHADOW ISN"T CLASSIC ENOUGH

 

Am I serious? Am I joking? I'll never tell *wink*

Edited August 23, 2013 by Balding Spider

[Indigo Rush]

Or both Shadow and Metal Sonic.

[SuperLink]

Or Mario, they are practically identical in gameplay now afterall!

[Chaos Warp]

Or both Shadow and Metal Sonic.

Round out the 4-player selection with (hypothetically) newly-created Metal Shadow?

[SilentDoom]

I can't really imagine any of those characters running through the levels of Lost World though.  You have what's probably the brightest, cheeriest looking Sonic game in terms of visuals and atmosphere since...well ever and you choose three of the "darkest" Sonic characters to be in the multiplayer?  Honestly I find that less fitting than just having the simulator bots.  

[Chaos Warp]

I can't really imagine any of those characters running through the levels of Lost World though.  You have what's probably the brightest, cheeriest looking Sonic game in terms of visuals and atmosphere since...well ever and you choose three of the "darkest" Sonic characters to be in the multiplayer?  Honestly I find that less fitting than just having the simulator bots.  

Shadow ran around in Sonic Heroes and there was no problems with that game being super colourful and cheery looking, why would it be a problem here?

[Balding Spider]

I can't really imagine any of those characters running through the levels of Lost World though.  You have what's probably the brightest, cheeriest looking Sonic game in terms of visuals and atmosphere since...well ever and you choose three of the "darkest" Sonic characters to be in the multiplayer?  Honestly I find that less fitting than just having the simulator bots.  

 

Metal Sonics dark now?

[Solly]

I don't think Shadow or Metal Sonic wouldn't fit in the multiplayer because they're "dark" or some kind of tonal issue, but they'd certainly stand by being out of nowhere. Canon or not, the existence of the Sonic bots is given context in Sonic Colors, because the whole multiplayer/Chaos Emerald hunting is framed as being some kind of game within a game. 

 

Plus, Shadow and Metal Sonic have never used Wisps before. It's kind of hard to imagine them doing that, and I'd kinda like it to stay Sonic's thing. 

[azoo]

I could easily see Metal Sonic darting across these stages, having been in Sonic CD and all (the game that this's art style most resembles imo). Plus, he's a robot Sonic... so why do we have these.. other robot Sonics? XD

 

Shadow is the only one that I could see would feel out of place. I only say that because he doesn't seem to have a reason to be there, while Metal does, being one of Eggman's baddies, and all.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Master Azonkonion

[SilentDoom]

Shadow ran around in Sonic Heroes and there was no problems with that game being super colourful and cheery looking, why would it be a problem here?

 

Shadow was also amongst a host of other characters and was a part of the story in Heroes.  He was a part of the Heroes world as a whole and as a result there's some context to him being playable in the multiplayer.  That is not the case in Lost World. 

[RandomJane]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they could just give Tails the homing attack and parkour and no one would really complain. Yeah, people would be mad that he couldn't fly or whatever, but I for one would prefer to have Tails function like he did in Sonic 2 than not have him at all.

 

It really is a shame that multiplayer does not feature Tails, I think it's indefensible. I mean, sure, I can understand not adding in polarizing characters like Shadow, since critics and many gamers really hate him, but I don't get Tails. Do critics even hate Tails? No review of Sonic 4: Episode 2 complained about him, they just said the game was generic and uninspired. In fact, I remember some reviews pointing out that it was odd that Tails could not become the 'lead' in single player. No one complained about him in Generations, Colours or even Unleashed. 

 

In fact, whenever he is mentioned by critics, it's usually that he is the original sidekick and the only friend they would appreciate being in the game.

 

If they are going to make Tails have a spotlight in Lost World's storyline then they could at least make him playable in multiplayer. It seems like a non brainer.

 

I really don't think it's much to ask for, because a Recoloured Sonic Clone for Player Two, is honestly, stupid. 

Edited August 23, 2013 by RandomJane

[Balding Spider]

Plus, Shadow and Metal Sonic have never used Wisps before. It's kind of hard to imagine them doing that, and I'd kinda like it to stay Sonic's thing. 

 

Can't speak for Shadow but you'd think Metal would be able to. I mean if Eggman can make it so the Sonic robot's could, why not Metal? Eh, I'll drop it.

[SilentDoom]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they could just give Tails the homing attack and parkour and no one would really complain. Yeah, people would be mad that he couldn't fly or whatever, but I for one would prefer to have Tails function like he did in Sonic 2 than not have him at all.

 

It really is a shame that multiplayer does not feature Tails, I think it's indefensible. I mean, sure, I can understand not adding in polarizing characters like Shadow, since critics and many gamers really hate him, but I don't get Tails. Do critics even hate Tails? No review of Sonic 4: Episode 2 complained about him, they just said the game was generic and uninspired. In fact, I remember some reviews pointing out that it was odd that Tails could not become the 'lead' in single player. No one complained about him in Generations, Colours or even Unleashed. 

 

In fact, whenever he is mentioned by critics, it's usually that he is the original sidekick and the only friend they would appreciate being in the game.

 

If they are going to make Tails have a spotlight in Lost World's storyline then they could at least make him playable in multiplayer. It seems like a non brainer.

 

I really don't think it's much to ask for, because a Recoloured Sonic Clone for Player Two, is honestly, stupid. 

 

Because Tails' defining trait as a character is his flight, especially now where barring SA2 (where he was stuck in his mech) and Sonic 2 (his debut game where the character movesets were a lot simpler in general) every single game where Tails has been playable he has been able to fly.  Having him playable but not having him have his defining trait would seem odd to me.  Not to mention you have stuff like the parkour (and to a lesser extent the Homing Attack) which simply wouldn't make sense for Tails at all.

 

Point I'm getting at is that if you take a character like Tails and represent him as a clone of Sonic you're representing the character wrong which, in my opinion, is worse than not representing the character at all.  However, if you do give him flight ability in multiplayer, it makes the experience unbalanced and changes the dynamic of how you play.  Even SA2's additional characters who were the same but had slight adjustments to them (e.g. Amy and Metal Sonic in the racing levels) were unbalanced (Amy and Metal Sonic were leagues better than Sonic and Shadow for example).

 

I honestly don't mind the simulator robots.  Sure they're dull, but they at least lend themselves to a perfectly balanced multiplayer experience and I don't think they're going to deteriorate the fun factor of the multiplayer experience from not being actual characters that much in the grand scheme of things.  And honestly this is the first time we've had an actual competitive multiplayer mode that's relevant to the main gameplay since Sonic 06, and the first good potential multiplayer since SA2.  

Edited August 23, 2013 by SiLeNtDo0m

[Pawn]

Younger fans love SA2, the slightly older generation of fans (the one I had to put up with on forums the most when I was younger) are the ones who lost interest in Sonic because of "shitty story" and "shitty friends", and that goes for critics too. So yes, people who don't consider themselves Sonic fans generally, or people who game a lot but play other things are the ones who are typically are turned off Sonic having a story. These people are large in number, and while it sometimes seems like the "Adventure" generation of fans is huge too, it's not all that big when sales of SA2HD weren't exactly amazing, they're just very vocal. Sonic's story was far too common a criticism for people to ignore, reading any review or impression from older gamers made that annoyingly unavoidable sometimes.

 

I agree that a well-written story could really benefit Sonic, but I'm saying we're not gonna get that either because of how much people instantly run away in fear when they hear Sonic and story in the same context. It's the same as other playable characters.

 

Sonic has the misfortune of being one of the only gaming franchises ever that people generally automatically assume the worst of before even trying it, even now 7 years after the worst passed, people still say things like "Sonic is dead" or "they need to stop trying" without ever trying the games themselves. Unfortunately the only way they'll ever warm up to the series again is if SEGA stay away from dangerous buzzwords like "story" and "Sonic's friends" and egg them into giving it another go without scaring them off. It's bullshit and it's unfair, but maybe SEGA deserve it for the things they did in Sonic's past, I dunno.

 

Yeah they can complain and there's nothing wrong with that cause it does suck, but I'm saying it's not going to happen again because those who advocate Sonic having a story are the minority.

 

Am I part of the older generation you're referring to? I was around back then too, and on CulT no less, where those with negative views were far more vocal and quick to mock anyone who thought differently. Despite that, there were many (some my age and older), like myself at the time, who enjoyed the stories pre-2004 (and without blindly dismissing their flaws). I just didn't feel the need to speak up about it most of the time, since I was content. I remember at least some critics praising the story and very few outright hating it.

 

I honestly don't know how big the "Adventure generation" (I assume you're talking about younger fans here?) is, but members have so often referred to this great number of rabid SA2 fans that I assumed there was at least a significant fanbase for it. I also thought it sold reasonably well? Considering that most fans of it already own the game, I thought that anything more than outright bad sales for an old, flawed game was pretty good. Review scores weren't even that bad either.

 

Like I said before, with the bulk of the cash coming from kids and not grumpy old gits, then the sales shouldn't suffer too much anyway. Although I'm not sure why they can't use the 'skip' option on cutscenes and just play the game. I understand being weary of a new Sonic game for a variety of reasons, but I don't think that most people would turn away simply because they heard there was more of a story. It's not as though the games have dumped story altogether anyway. If the naysayers can handle what Colours and Generations (which was criticised for its stupid narrative by some journalists) had to offer, then I don't see why so many would suddenly turn away at the sight of more. As long as it's well-executed, I think they could deal with it or even enjoy it.

 

I have lived through all of the ups and downs of this franchise and I was close to giving up on it myself in the past, so I understand people's worries to a certain extent. However, if you can trust Sonic Team to deliver on gameplay when they have done such a horrendous job of that in the past, then why can't it be the same for everything else? I guess a lot of my questions are better directed to the people you're referring to than yourself, though.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Pawn

[___-_]

They could always throw in Espio as well

If he was playable then he's basically guaranteed to having some parkour maneuvers, being a ninja and a chameleon and all.

And since Sonic has the new kick ability, it pretty much opens up other characters to have their own stylized version of a power attack instead of just copy/pasting unfitting homing attacks onto them.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

If they're worried about the game being unbalanced, then let them both pick the same character - if they're worried about that being confusing, put te other characters in the simulator - If you're not going to let us play as Tails then at least let us play as Robot Tails instead of just Robot Sonic

[Speedmancer]

I was always under the impression that most of Sonic's friends were introduced for the sole purpose of making more interesting multiplayer races in the first place. That's how I saw Tails in Sonic 2, anyway. Granted, he's not as much about speed anymore as he was back then. But surely there's another way to spice up the multiplayer roster a bit rather than having all those Eggman Sonic robots.

 

I'm actually really surprised to see that the support system mentioned in the IGN gameplay didn't end up being a playable Tails. I can understand SEGA playing it safe and focusing on Sonic solo gameplay for a while. But I wonder how many more games it will take for them to feel a bit adventurous with making other characters playable? Not that I really need other characters to play as. Just make Tails follow me again or something.

 

I guess I just really thought that Sonic 4 Ep II was priming gamers up for cooperative Sonic & Tails awesomeness in a future 3D title. Silly me lol

Edited August 23, 2013 by Speedmancer

[Jolt_TH]

In all fairness I can sorta see the sonic only multiplayer thing.

If we forget about balance for now and just boil it down to three characters. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. Unless we give Tails and Knuckles their respective abilities (flying, gliding, climbing) the abs will complain as they would just be clones of Sonic. If they were to add in these skills then 1) you have the whole balance problem but 2) then people will complain about not having them in single player. It literally makes NO SENSE for them to create these would be different play styles for multiplayer alone. It's far enough to complain about not having them in single player, but then complaining that they aren't in multiplayer is baffling. If they would have spent time to create these different control schemes, movesets and animations, why would they just shove it into multiplayer? Even on SA2B the four characters were a near carbon copy, here they would be completely different. S3&K (a game which had all three and a multiplayer) had them all playable in the story and I can bet multiplayer was added as an afterthought.

My point is, if they haven't added a different characters movesets/play style in the single player, it makes it completely pointless for them to be in multiplayer as its just extra effort that some people wouldn't even see

[Milo]

I'm seriously laughign at the people comparing this to the classic games. I love the art direction and all, but it looks nothing like the Genesis games. Sonic Generations was far closer to the Genesis games than this is. Gush over the art direction all you want - Hell, I'm doing it plenty - but anybody who thinks this looks anything like the Genesis games is delusional.

 

edit: oops i posted this in the wrong topic :<

 

 

Seriously? Did you even see the Casino Act in Frozen Factory? The Genesis-styled aesthetics couldn't be more obvious if it tried.

 

 

And that's not even going into Windy Hill:

 

Edited August 24, 2013 by Yeow