Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Doctor MK]

Hey, Hey, Hey, I never said playable, but it does make me think the possibility of a W101 team Assist Trophy is still possible

 

That's certainly more possible, and I wouldn't mind seeing a W101 Assist Trophy at all - perhaps it could be randomised and the team members pull off a different Unite Morph each time? Unite Hand could pummel anyone in close range, Unite Sword could swipe across the whole screen, Unite Gun could fire from afar, Unite Whip could be a more precise but powerful version of Unite Sword... the list of possibilities go on.

 

That's as far as W101 representation will go though, I'm sure.

[JaidynReiman]

Don't read too much into it. Just because Sakurai doesn't explicitly state that every trophy character isn't going to be playable, doesn't mean they actually stand a chance of getting in.

Naturally I KNEW someone was going to bring that up, and Brittany explicitly being stated to be non-playable doesn't hint at any other characters revealed to be nothing more than trophies as anything but trophies. Especially since the only trophies of playable/potentially playable characters are of alternate versions of set character, namely Fat Little Mac and Pseudo-Palutena. In the case of Wonder Red, its not any sort of alternate version, it is literally Wonder Red.

[VO.SUPER]

Oh come on Sakurai, not even as an alternate costume? Her body isn't that different from Olimar's.

[StaticMania]

If any other character from Pikmin was to be an Alt. for Olimar...I think Louie would've been chosen before her.

 

Plus if she was to be an Alt. why should it just be her and not the others too? Besides the President and the "other" captain from Pikmin 3, they'd all be canidates for that position.

[Indigo Rush]

Oh come on Sakurai, not even as an alternate costume? Her body isn't that different from Olimar's.

 

How many times are we going to have to discuss what a "costume" is?

[StaticMania]

Until we stop caring about it...

[Indigo Rush]

No, it's going to keep happening until people understand that there's a fundamental difference between an "alternate costume" and an "alternate character." JezMM and other folk have gone on about this more than enough times for you guys to get the point. Clearly that isn't working.

 

 

Lets try this:

 

Which one is the Wii Fit Trainer? 

 

Both are Wii Fit Trainers. They are unique in that they can have a different design and have the same identity.

 

Same concept:

Which one is the Villager from Animal Crossing?

 

Both are Villagers from Animal Crossing. Again, they have the same identity despite having different designs.

 

Okay, now let's try this:

 

 

Which one is Sonic?

 

Unless you're Amy Rose or GUN, you're going to pick the blue hedgehog on the left. Shadow may look like Sonic, and he may have similar abilities, but he is not the same character.

 

Now lets try this with Sonic again:

 

 

Which one is Sonic?

 

Despite what Metal Sonic will tell you, the one on the right is Sonic. Metal Sonic, again, despite having similar abilities and designs, is still a completely different character. It is not interchangeable.

 

Okay, one more time:

 

 

Which one is Mario?

 

Yes, Mario is the one on the left. Luigi, despite being an almost complete design clone of Mario (he isn't called "Green Mario" for nothing), is still fundamentally a different character with his own personality, unique abilities and motivations.

 

 

 

You can't just take one character and re-skin them as someone with a different identity. You may be able to reference another character through an alternate costume:

 

 

But it will not be a different character. 

 

Unless the character's name and identity can be interchangeable with a different design, it will not be a feasible "alternate costume." 

 

And likewise:

 

These are different characters with different personalities, motivations and goals. They are not interchangeable between one another in that respect. They can't be alternate costumes.

 

You may be able to reference them, but you can't change Olimar's identity.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Indigo Rush

[StaticMania]

There's not much more to go on about...

 

People aren't always going to remember each specific term, if they can't remember it then they'll just use the easiest word to just generalize what they mean.

 

Unless you're the type of person who likes to remember each specific words for things that end up filling the same role anyway, there's only one difference between each word.

 

Alternate Costume, Skin, alternate color scheme, alternate character...

[Indigo Rush]

You've missed the point entirely.

 

People are suggesting that different characters should be "alternate costumes."

 

I'm explaining to you, as others have explained before me, that it is not the same thing. These characters have identities, and you can't change that identity. If you don't know the difference between a character/identity and a costume/skin, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Solly]

Until we stop caring about it...

Better start stopping then, because it's not happening. 

 

I have no idea why the community latches onto ideas like this. There's really no precedent for it in Smash Bros, and there's no way to do it without being kind of messy. Do they have their own voice? Does the narrator use their own name? How are they selected on the menu? Having nods to previous characters through alternate colors is one thing, but having a completely different character as an optional costume is a fair amount of work to make a very small amount of people happy, and you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

Not to mention, it's just kind of lame. These characters really do have identities of their own, whether people acknowledge it or not. Making them alts to existing characters cheapens them even more than simply making them clones. It's always such a creatively-bankrupt suggestion.

 

Wii Fit Trainer's a special exception for not really being a previously established "character' in the traditional sense. Not to mention their name is gender-neutral. I could say the same for the Villager, maybe, because that game's all about customization. 

[StaticMania]

I get the feeling people are only suggesting that because the characters that they'd be talkin' about do the same exact thing as the original...and/or they don't bother thinking of the moveset possibilities for them.

 

...Or they don't have high enough hopes that the character would get their own place as representation.

 

Maybe Alt(s) are the 1st thing that comes to mind, I don't know.

[Marcello]

You may be able to reference them, but you can't change Olimar's identity.

 

If Sakurai and co. want to, they will. They won't say "Wait, Louie isn't Olimar. Guess we can't do that!".

 

You're making up rules that may or may not exist for the developers.

[JezMM]

They are "rules" that have seemingly been in effect for three games so far.  All us spoilsports are trying to do is nip unjustified excitement in the bud so it doesn't get out of hand.

 

It's tiresome to hear people going "ugh why didn't they do such and such" down the line because they genuinely believed it had a good chance of happening.

 

 

 

If I ignored practicalities and realistic development budget expectations I could give you a whole list of stuff I'd love to see in this game - hell, stuff like Metal Sonic as an alt form for Sonic would be totes cool I agree!  But sometimes it helps avoid disappointment to remind people of reasons why - yes these ideas would be nice, but don't expect them in any degree.

 

You'll note that the only times people start going on about these technicalities is usually after someone not just mentions an idea that stretches beyond previous entries in the series, but also tends to repeatedly defend it as plausible when we just don't know.

[Marcello]

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to argue the likeliness, I'm arguing against the way people act like there's some sort of rule about things, even though they just made it up. It's doesn't only happen in the situation.

[StaticMania]

There are Rules in place...but we don't know what they are or how many there are that would be set in place developers.

 

One can only assume what some of the rules are when they aren't one of the people making the game. With some pretty careful research, analyising, and using past knowledge...someone could probably make some very believeable guesses. They'll still remain mostly unquestioned as "guesses" until some kind of confirmation comes up.

[Gabz Girl]

What about Shadow Link though? I know he's just an evil shadow version of Link but he is not exactly the same character.

Also Villager better get a female skin cos if not Imma gonna be pissed!

[JezMM]

What about Shadow Link though? I know he's just an evil shadow version of Link but he is not exactly the same character.

Also Villager better get a female skin cos if not Imma gonna be pissed!

 

Shadow Link is still merely just a skin referencing Shadow Link though - I mean that particular Dark Link design was only ever used to represent evil in a cut-scene too.  But I consider it on the same level as Peach's Daisy colour scheme.

[Solly]

I don't think anyone's "making up" any rules, nor are they trying to argue that they know 100% what the developers are and aren't willing to do. But people aren't tempering their expectations at all. You see these suggestions pop up every once in a while, and enough people gravitate toward them that they start to think there's a decent chance at them becoming reality despite, once again, having no precedent. 

 

I've seen so many people suggest this stuff.

• Lucina as an alt for Marth.
• Chrom as an alt for Marth OR Ike.
• Shadow or Metal Sonic as an alt for Sonic.
• Brittany or Louie as an alt for Olimar.
• Proto Man as an alt for Mega Man.
• Daisy as an alt for Peach.

It's almost surreal how many people think this has a good shot at happening when it's never happened before (no, clone characters don't count). Then, they're upset and even surprised when it turns out that they're wrong, as if this middle ground between being a fully fledged character and something else ever existed.

[The Disney Dork]

If the 3DS version really comes out August 29th...then that's complete BS. Like seriously? When they say summer you'd probably think early or middle July...

[-Robin-]

Well, let's be fair now: what could Brittany really do that would make her stand out from Olimar?

My point was that with Wonder Red being de-confirmed last Wednesday as well, Brittany being shown in trophy form here makes it look like a pattern Sakurai's set up, where every Wednesday he'll show a character and deconfirm him or her in one go. XP

[Teoskaven]

Better start stopping then, because it's not happening. 

 

I have no idea why the community latches onto ideas like this. There's really no precedent for it in Smash Bros, and there's no way to do it without being kind of messy. Do they have their own voice? Does the narrator use their own name? How are they selected on the menu? Having nods to previous characters through alternate colors is one thing, but having a completely different character as an optional costume is a fair amount of work to make a very small amount of people happy, and you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

Not to mention, it's just kind of lame. These characters really do have identities of their own, whether people acknowledge it or not. Making them alts to existing characters cheapens them even more than simply making them clones. It's always such a creatively-bankrupt suggestion.

 

Wii Fit Trainer's a special exception for not really being a previously established "character' in the traditional sense. Not to mention their name is gender-neutral. I could say the same for the Villager, maybe, because that game's all about customization. 

 

Injustice did that quite well, including different voices for specific costumes like the Arrow one for Green Arrow.

[VO.SUPER]

You can't have every character in the world exist even as clones. At least by making them alternate skins, you give more variety and individualism to the lineup without having to messily balancing everything. As long as their body size isn't too outrageous, and they can share a similar move set. then I don't see the problem.

Sure it's a lot of extra work to have different sound clips and names, but it's easier than having to balance it all. Things like this can go a long way for the longevity of the game, with a great variety of characters to see.

And come on, some of these characters are barely any different to warrant "near clone" status. And I really don't want anymore near clones taking up slots and balancing time.

What do any of the four other Pikmin characters do that is worth going through that effort?

However, unlike you guys putting words in my mouth. I never expected this would be the case, I just think this would be a smart thing to do. At the end of the day, we're arguing completely aesthetic changes.

[CelerinaTheJackrabbit]

I would like to say it's just a little hope of mine that the developers will add in alt costumes for each character. Yes, some might not be able to get one. ( I realized Olimar really has a difficult time have any possibilty of an alt... unless we go the game over route and give him a pikmin sprout from his head. - 3- ),  But I honestly can see each character so far having their alternate costume. Heck, some already have some, such as the case of Wario and Peach.

 

I'm usually not one to be upset over anything not happening. All I'm saying is I hope the ability to have those alts is there. Heck, if they don't include anymore, that's cool. Not like it makes the game any worse. It's just visual nonsense anyways.

[JezMM]

Honestly, if it was a character I cared about I'd rather not see them at all than have them share a moveset that doesn't necessarily reflect their personality.

 

Playable Daisy would make my day, but giving her the same moveset as Peach?  They're dialling down what used to make her a unique character in the main series enough without any help.

 

If the 3DS version really comes out August 29th...then that's complete BS. Like seriously? When they say summer you'd probably think early or middle July...

 

In the Northern hemisphere, Summer is made up of June, July and August, so they're not BSing at all really.  They never said early summer or mid-summer, just summer.

[Blacklightning]

I hear that complaint a lot, but honestly as far as Smash is concerned it doesn't feel like anything new. There are noticable chunks of the cast that already, for better or worse, have little to do with their game counterparts anyway - The Earthbound duo, every Starfox, Ganon and Cpt. Falcon just to name a few. People say there's no precedent for models being pasted over other characters, but even if we were to ignore clones there is a precedent for characters being misrepresented to a fairly equal degree so I'm not really seeing what difference it makes, practically speaking.