Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

I was saying that it was considered "harsh" because You made it seem like everyone Ran away screaming at the sight of a new Sonic game after Sonic 06 came out. Sonic Unleashed was the next Mainstream Title and people weren't screaming and running then. The manner in which you stated it made me feel a bit odd. People act like this game is cursed, is the devil, so on and so forth when it isn't that bad. I could understand someone not liking it, but to use phrases like "pile of shit" are quite the hyperboles.

I highly suggest you re-evaluate my quote, because I NEVER, nor even so much as hinted anywhere in my Sonic 06 Birthday party analogy that 06 scared off everyone from the new game. That's just a bold-faced lie.

 

The closest I ever got to that was that Sonic's reputation took quite a hit after 06. I will not accept words being put in my mouth, let alone myself being lied at and about.

As Soma said, this isn't helping as I just told him to stop with that. =/

 

That has been edited out.

[DBZHedgy]

Please accept that we have given you disputes, discussion, reasoning, etc to elucidate why we find 06 to be the way we see it. Please stop treating us so rudely. Please just....:

I've given disputes, discussions, reasoning and ect as well. 

I'll respect everyone else's opinions but you guys have to meet me half way. 

I can deal with people hating it, I'd say deal with it too, but what would that do exactly?

[Pelly <3's U]

wow such memes.

 

All memes may be image-macros, but not all image-macros are memes. ;(

 

They want to show you the light, but you're blind.

 

Blind people can't see light. #CoolFactswithJai

 

You're spamming up this topic, please stop

[DBZHedgy]

You really do seem to make a conscious effort to fail to miss the overall picture for a minor detail.

 

Here are my exact quotes-

"Patronizing memes which serve little purpose but to devalue the opinion of others."

 

 

 

With all due respect, I'm starting to believe you've isolated yourself to the point where you can't see that those people have been talked to about their attitude, and it's getting quite old seeing you pretend like you're the only one who's been called out for poor behavior.

 

On that note, we're no longer going to be entertaining anymore of this drama, as it's gone on long enough and frankly the entire staff are sick of having to look after it.  As a reminder, this is a topic about Sonic the Hedgehog, a game released in 2006 for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 starring the eponymous blue hedgehog.  Let's all return to talking about this and not about one person's arguing skills or another person's hypocrisy or whatever.

I'm not saying that this is a problem now, I was referring to your statement that I had used "attacked" in the wrong fashion. Those moments apply.

 

Either way you are correct, and as such I will begin discussing the game again.

I highly suggest you re-evaluate my quote, because I NEVER, nor even so much as hinted anywhere in my Sonic 06 Birthday party analogy that 06 scared off everyone from the new game. That's just a bold-faced lie.

 

The closest I ever got to that was that Sonic's reputation took quite a hit after 06. I will not accept words being put in my mouth, let alone myself being lied at and about.

Exactly. It took quite a hit. This hit isn't as quite as it may have seemed though. 

I said that you made it seem like it. I didn't say that you said it.

 

----------------------------------------------------

New Topic:

Would we be happier if the game never came to be?

(Not trying to regulate, but since most of the thread was in an incline of arguments and such, I felt as though since I caused it i should alleviate it.)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I've given disputes, discussions, reasoning and ect as well. 

I'll respect everyone else's opinions but you guys have to meet me half way.

Been there, done that.

 

Oh, didn't see that post of Tara's. Yeah, let's get back on track.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Jovahexeon

[Tara]

Been there, done that.

As a reminder, we're shifting this topic back in the direction of Sonic '06, not about the current argument about someone else's arguing skills. =/

[DBZHedgy]

What could've made the game redeemable or at least adequate to you guys?

What could've been changed, what could've been left out?

How could this game be perfect? What changes would it have to go through? (Gameplay-Wise)

[Blacklightning]

First of all DBZHedgy I'd just like to say I wish that you'd separate your quotes properly, because you're needlessly difficult to follow when you cram your responses to every individual quote you're responding to in a single block of text.

 

(img)

 

Um... I don't know what planet you've been on...

I'd also like to add that outright ridiculing people doesn't really work when you're in the minority. Grow up.

 

but there are plenty of people who deny the flaws in Adventure.

Much like you deny the flaws in '06, yes? Certaintly the ones presented towards you, anyway. But I digress. I was speaking in regards to this topic, as it's no fun to argue with imaginary people who may or may not even exist in regards to this topic.

And because I know you're going to completely miss the point of this quote and try to search up some apologist on SEGAboards or something as if it proves some kind of point, allow me to reiterate with emphasis this time: in regards to this topic.

 

Early installment weirdness, technological limitations and Sonic's first step into 3D doesn't excuse it in the PS3 and XBOX360 version.

Yes, exactly. Thank you for making my point for me.

 

Really? Detaching from scripted areas? I seem to recall Sonic Adventure AND Sonic Adventure 2 cause you to clip through the ENTIRE LOOP resulting in your demise. Don't recall 06 doing that.

You're going to have to do better than recalling something if you expect me to believe that. '06's scripting breaks are well recorded. Can't really say the same for whatever you're claiming.

 

That was a problem in every right. But at least they tried. They could've copped out and made a completely boring story with no momentum, twists, turns, mystery and so on (Colors +?).

No they bloody well did not. They dreamt up a story that was basically broken from the word go, and their self-retcon basically screams to me "well, we messed up, but we can't be fucked to do a re-write". And even if you can make this out to be something other than a bout of laziness the fact that they tried and this is the best they could come up with just makes it even sadder.

 

Seriously? The Spin Dash? Are you actually bringing that up? Sonic Adventure's spin dash was BROKEN. Just as broken as Sonic's gems in 06. Except this time you pay for it. Justifing it's broken-ness. (Well I wouldn't say justifing, but you get the idea)

Broken? Arguably. Useful? Definently.

As far as '06 is concerned? Neither.

 

The Spin Attack was a former attack. This was supposed to bring Sonic into the new generation, and it was supposed to be realistic. I'd say that it wasn't a bad choice, seeing as how you NEED the homing attack to defeat most of the enemies anyway.

Oh my fucking god, you can't seriously believe this. Out of all the stretches I've ever seen in any debate I've ever taken in, this is easily the largest. You're talking about realism in the context of a franchise starring technicolour animals that break the sound barrier and destroy things with their faces. And you're trying to make out with this "out with the old, in with the new" attitude as if it's somehow a good thing to completely negate traits of the franchise that literally defined it from day fucking one. And the way you unironically point out that the game actually has to butcher itself to make these things fit is just the icing on the cake here. I am actually shocked and appalled by what I've just read here.

 

As for the plotholes, There are only two that are ACTUAL plotholes instead of some stupid nitpick someone decided to pick up. Oh wow... THAT'S JUST AS MANY AS SONIC COLORS! And considering how insignificant, and boring that plot was, I'd say 06 did a pretty good job.

I found it pretty funny how you try to rule out genuine plotholes as petty nitpicks, then immediately afterwards cast your judgement on a completely unrelated game with that exact pettiness as if it puts the two games on an equal level in any way.

 

How exactly did the core gameplay clash greater than Big the Cat? I'm Curious.

I'm glad you asked. Big actually holds a lot more in common with the core mechanics of the game than a lot of people give him credit for - the elephant in the room is his actual level goal, which is... you know, fishing. If you look at it from the basis of the abilities he has as a platformer, here's the thing he has in common with the majority of the cast:

- He can jump

- His jump can hurt things (at least I'm pretty sure it can - correct me if I'm wrong)

- He accelerates over time, and can actually gain some notable speed given the space to do so.

- He has a secondary attack which can also hurt things (swinging his fishing rod without casting the lure can destroy badniks)

With that in mind, here's what Silver has in common with your typical Sonic mechanics:

- He can jump

 

I see what you mean. however, even if the player's first instinct is the homing attack, and they die, players usually have another life to fight silver with. This life should be used to STAY AWAY FROM HIM until an opening is present.

And what event in the game teaches the player this is an option? Do you know how a learning curve works? There's a lot more psychology to it than you may think. All events previous teach the player that foes can and should be attacked at the first available opportunity, including bosses, and there's literally nothing to indicate that Silver running and doing nothing isn't an attack opportunity. Adding on top of this is that the precedent already set for an enemy that can defend (this guy, for reference) is simply to attack from another angle, so the solution implied by events previous in the game is to continue attacking, but to vary your approach.

 

Suffice to say, we only know in hindsight how that works out. Most people only even find the solution to this boss by accident or through the internet, because its solution is completely at odds with the way the game has prepared them for it.

 

I understand you reasoning, and with that I must say as a response, Sonic 06 isn't the bottomless can of glitches it's made out to be. Even for an incomplete game it's glitches aren't THAT bad.

You say this almost as if '06's glitches aren't widely reported and mocked on the internet already.

 

And in the last sentence, I'm not sure if you were referring to Mario Sunshine or 06, could you please re-enunciate?

Why in the unholy hell would I be referring to Mario Sunshine? Did I ever reference it? Did anyone in this thread ever reference it?

 

EDIT: Ugh, youtube links aren't working properly. Bare with me.

EDITEDIT: Hopefully that should do it. I'd like to point out my usage of LMGTFY isn't intended to be condescending - it's just the only working way I can find to directly link a search engine's results.

EDITEDITEDIT: Okay I swear I got it right this time. I'm not trying again if I didn't, this was a pain in the ass to write.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Anyway, back on topic, one thing that really disappointed me for Sonic 06 was how they handled the character battle outcomes.

 

With 06 taking so many ques from Adventure 1, I hoped they'd employ the tactic of allowing characters to win battles through semi-alternate story-telling for each of the characters' respective stories. I loved it in Adventure 1 for tying a bout of possible different perspectives shown through the eyes of the characters.

 

Not so with Sonic 2006. Instead, what do you get whether you beat Silver as Sonic or Sonic as Silver? You get Sonic being Silver's punching bag and an overwhelming load of humiliation hoisted on poor Sonic.

 

And even when you beat Shadow as Silver, you get the EXACT same scene from Shadow's story, except this time, you're the one getting kicked in the head. 

 

My main gripe with this is that it forces you to have to win all fights, and be rewarded with outcomes that pretty much scoff at your hard work in-game and sweeps them under the rug, effectively pointless.

[SlickEvan]

Rrrrraaaagghh. My heads gonna explode. "Okay it floats, thats good enough for me" thanks for explaining my problem Knuckles.

So about 06.. the game. I liked that it tried bringing back the adventure formula without the genre roulette (if only they did it right) and I'd kind of like to see SEGA try this again. Lost Worlds a pretty close example to what I mean. If they just sat down and created every character off of Sonics base like 06 tried I'd be pretty happy.

06 did have some pretty swell level design in some areas though, made me slighty happier during my playthrough. Because while Unleashed had a couple different paths this game really tried to out do itself in some areas like some of Kingdom Valley. Also if the models were a little shorter I'd think they'd looked pretty good. They kinda had a riders thing going though with the arms getting bigger at the hand area which was kinda bad. I gotta say I do wish this game had succeeded though just to see the different outcome of the blue blurs games.

Lets discuss 06 normally. Please.

Edit: oh thanks Jovahexeon. I was bout to explode into a blob of brain goo for a sec.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Again, I've never stated that Sonic 06 WASN'T buggy, or solidly written. -snip-

 

You didn't answer my question, comrade.

 

What do you stand to lose if, hypothetically, Sonic 06 is a bad game?

[SlickEvan]

Nooooo don't do it man. It's gonna rage in this topiv again.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Nooooo don't do it man. It's gonna rage in this topiv again.

 

I trust my opponent is mature enough to answer a cordial question without needlessly devolving into dramatics, and I'm trusting that the rest of us will give him some breathing space if he does. You mustn't always expect the worst of people, comrade.

[SlickEvan]

True. It's just given how the topic derailed so hard I wouldn't want that again. But it's true I should expect better in people and I will. I'll give em the benefit of the doubt.

[DBZHedgy]

First of all DBZHedgy I'd just like to say I wish that you'd separate your quotes properly, because you're needlessly difficult to follow when you cram your responses to every individual quote you're responding to in a single block of text.

Ok, I will adjust accordingly

 

I'd also like to add that outright ridiculing people doesn't really work when you're in the minority. Grow up.

Ok, so it works when I'm in the minority, but it does when you aren't? How does that make sense?

 

 

Much like you deny the flaws in '06, yes? Certaintly the ones presented towards you, anyway. But I digress. I was speaking in regards to this topic, as it's no fun to argue with imaginary people who may or may not even exist in regards to this topic.

Really? I've stated this multiple times... including the post in which this reads from, but i'll say it again...

Never did I say that the Story or gameplay was perfect. Never did I say that the story was void of plotholes. Never did I say that the gameplay was void of glitches. Seriously... how could you miss it? It was Size 36!

 

 

Yes, exactly. Thank you for making my point for me.

So what keeps that version free from persecution of the stated?

 

 

You're going to have to do better than recalling something if you expect me to believe that. '06's scripting breaks are well recorded. Can't really say the same for whatever you're claiming.

Not-so-safe Safety Rails

Overall, rails tend to be very reliable in preventing an accident that costs a life or two. But those accidents can still happen if the player is at top speed in certain sections, or spindashes into them. One of the worst cases comes from trying to spindash past the double spike trap in Emerald Beach, which can cause Sonic to get through the rail next to the badnik and into the big blue underneath that area.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Glitches

 

 

No they bloody well did not. They dreamt up a story that was basically broken from the word go, and their self-retcon basically screams to me "well, we messed up, but we can't be fucked to do a re-write". And even if you can make this out to be something other than a bout of laziness the fact that they tried and this is the best they could come up with just makes it even sadder.

Even if they didn't, it was a better attempt than Sonic Colors, or even Generations, heck, Lost World's plot didn't even establish anything. They introduced plot elements and completely forgot about them. Sonic 06 didn't go into full detail but they did at least explain their origin and such. Making a random Idea even make a lick of sense is better than a well thought out idea not explaining anything.

That's how I see it anyway. What say you?

 

 

Broken? Arguably. Useful? Definently.

As far as '06 is concerned? Neither.

Arguably? Pfft. 

 

I wouldn't say neither...

The spin dash hits enemies, and brings sonic to his top speed almost instantly. There are two uses for you. 

 

 

Oh my fucking god, you can't seriously believe this. Out of all the stretches I've ever seen in any debate I've ever taken in, this is easily the largest. You're talking about realism in the context of a franchise starring technicolour animals that break the sound barrier and destroy things with their faces. And you're trying to make out with this "out with the old, in with the new" attitude as if it's somehow a good thing to completely negate traits of the franchise that literally defined it from day fucking one. And the way you unironically point out that the game actually has to butcher itself to make these things fit is just the icing on the cake here. I am actually shocked and appalled by what I've just read here.

So what your saying is, you would get hurt more if an animal jumped on you instead of magically pushing you with intense force into a wall. Is that what your saying?

And although Sonic and Pals are far from realistic, the premise of the game is "What if Sonic was real?" 

The way I see it, Sonic was just branching off from Mario even more. The Premise of Sonic was to Negate or at least Rival Mario. Making Sonic less similar to the plumber would be the next logical step.

 

 

I found it pretty funny how you try to rule out genuine plotholes as petty nitpicks,

Ok, then. Since you seem to see every one would you care to tell me of such plotholes that aren't mundane nitpicks? 

 

 

, then immediately afterwards cast your judgement on a completely unrelated game with that exact pettiness as if it puts the two games on an equal level in any way.

I didn't say it put the two games on the same level. All I did was relate the two because they both have story and they both have plot holes. Just because something is related does not mean that they are on the same level. Flowers and Trees both produce Oxygen. That doesn't mean that you can chop both of them down for wood though.

 

 

I'm glad you asked. Big actually holds a lot more in common with the core mechanics of the game than a lot of people give him credit for - the elephant in the room is his actual level goal, which is... you know, fishing. If you look at it from the basis of the abilities he has as a platformer, here's the thing he has in common with the majority of the cast:

- He can jump

- His jump can hurt things (at least I'm pretty sure it can - correct me if I'm wrong)

- He accelerates over time, and can actually gain some notable speed given the space to do so.

- He has a secondary attack which can also hurt things (swinging his fishing rod without casting the lure can destroy badniks)

With that in mind, here's what Silver has in common with your typical Sonic mechanics:

 

- He can jump

Uh... no... Big cannot kill enemies by jumping on them, Ironic as it is.

and that secondary attack is his primary attack...

 

This is only adventure Big though, in later installments he plays very similarly to the rest of the cast. Silver is the same, Sonic Rivals and Sonic Rivals 2 are good examples of this.

and BTW, Silver's speed increases too

 

Whichever way you slice it, Silver and Big are different characters that change the way you play the game. However, Silver's role in the game is rooted deeper into the story than Big's. On top of that, Silver's gameplay doesn't go directly against the flow/style of gameplay like that of big. Silver has to reach the goal just like in previous Sonic games. Big... fishes. Don't get me wrong, it's ok when your in the right mindset, but Sonic has always been about moving forward... 

 

Another thing worth noting is that Silver isn't another clone. People see this as a good or bad thing. I personally see it as a plus because Sonic is more unique now. Previous titles had introduced new characters that made Sonic a poor choice by comparison, that or it was just Sonic with lower acceleration and a new power, or just a flat out reskin. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow were the worst offenders in their debut's.

 

 

And what event in the game teaches the player this is an option? Do you know how a learning curve works? There's a lot more psychology to it than you may think. All events previous teach the player that foes can and should be attacked at the first available opportunity, including bosses, and there's literally nothing to indicate that Silver running and doing nothing isn't an attack opportunity. Adding on top of this is that the precedent already set for an enemy that can defend (this guy, for reference) is simply to attack from another angle, so the solution implied by events previous in the game is to continue attacking, but to vary your approach.

 

Suffice to say, we only know in hindsight how that works out. Most people only even find the solution to this boss by accident or through the internet, because its solution is completely at odds with the way the game has prepared them for it.

In this case however Silver doesn't block your attack, he counter attacks it. As well as still attacking while players aren't attacking. This situation is different when compared to the egg commander because it 1) doesn't counter, and 2) is clearly vulnerable outside of his guard.

There isn't any predetermined weakness for Silver yet... and as seen with the Egg Cerberus boss, you have to wait for an opening to attack it. As such, the player should Wait in response to not being able to attack Silver immediately, much like the Egg Cerberus boss.

 

And again, Silver very clearly yells "HOW BOUT DIS" to alert the player that he is open since the camera isn't focused on him.

 

 

You say this almost as if '06's glitches aren't widely reported and mocked on the internet already.

Yes, it may seem to be bottomless, but it really isn't. 

There are 3 types of glitches present.

Clipping Glitches

Scripted Glitches

Powerup/Character Glitches.

 

There are dozens of other types of glitches out there such as

Distortion Glitches

Spasm Glitches

Seizure Glitches

and many more...

Especially the dreaded glitches in which your character is locked in a void and your only choice to continue playing is to start over completely. I've posted this video already, but It wouldn't hurt to post it again would it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k6vZqPNcDo&hd=1

 

 

Why in the unholy hell would I be referring to Mario Sunshine? Did I ever reference it? Did anyone in this thread ever reference it?

I brought it up in discussion with the glitches and the principle in which a player skips a section with a glitch instead of using the prior function to get to the section after the section in which the player has skipped.

 

EDITEDITEDIT: Okay I swear I got it right this time. I'm not trying again if I didn't, this was a pain in the ass to write.

Boy, Do I know how that feels!

What do you stand to lose if, hypothetically, Sonic 06 is a bad game?

I don't really lose anything. I've already declared myself as a psychopathic fan with a burning appreaciation for Sonic, so what have I got to lose? My main focus for these... rants, are mainly due to the disrespect people get for liking the game. I'm not trying to force my opinion down your throat, honestly. I just want to make sure that these statements don't go unheard. I understand that people may never like it, but I'm not just gonna like a game for no reason. I've gotta back my claim.

--------------------------------

On the topic of the disappointments and such:

I liked the perspective thing that adventure had, but didn't adventure 2 have the same cutscene for won and lost battles like 06? I liked all 3 to be honest. Adventure had like this story-telling type of thing going on. It had this... thing where even though the same thing happened in a different story, they said a different line. It's a bit confusing in terms of which is canon and which isn't (even though it rarely matters) but they were still enjoyable.

While Adventure 2, 06 and Heroes do this version, I'm not saying that it's good, but it isn't really bad either. From my perspective it's... neutral. 

Then again, Heroes did this different thing where you got the afterstory of what happened, adventure 2 and 06 didn't do this...

 

The Level Design in 06 was pretty good too, in my opinion at least. Many people including me say that the Engine and how well it was programmed were the only real problem with the gameplay. 

 

How about Hubs? Any thoughts on those?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

 

My main focus for these... rants, are mainly due to the disrespect people get for liking the game.

 

But you see, that's precisely what I was talking about. I, and more than a few others here, are perfectly alright with people liking Sonic 06. Reasons like "because I had fun with it" do carry weight in this realm; not because liking the game makes it good, but because liking the game is perfectly alright. The game doesn't need to be good to be enjoyable, which I suppose is lucky for it, because it isn't a good game in the slightest. You've been campaigning to expand England's empire, but you've only found yourself on English soil. Everything you're fighting for is already won here.

 

You yourself have said that Sonic 06 isn't the greatest, yet you still seem to like it enough to defend it so heartily. All of our arguments, all of our words, all of our bluster comes down to this: Like 06 however you please, if only you'll acknowledge it for what it is, as a rather poorly made game. Nothing more or less than that. Whatever reasons we have given you are only in service to that point. Ignore all the little points, and just focus on the one here. What say you?

[Blacklightning]

Ok, I will adjust accordingly

I'm so greatful for this you have no idea.

 

Ok, so it works when I'm in the minority, but it does when you aren't? How does that make sense?

Don't get me wrong, it's still tasteless both ways. But it's less beneficial to ridicule people knowing they can and will prove you wrong, than it is to ridicule people and know that people will be on your side.

Of course, I think we've been warned about arguing semantics like this, and leaving this part of the post in was admittedly a mistake on my part. 

 

Really? I've stated this multiple times... including the post in which this reads from, but i'll say it again...

Never did I say that the Story or gameplay was perfect. Never did I say that the story was void of plotholes. Never did I say that the gameplay was void of glitches. Seriously... how could you miss it? It was Size 36!

Certaintly the ones presented towards you anyway.

This was not an absolutionist statement.

 

So what keeps that version free from persecution of the stated?

...nothing? SA1's critical appeal became worse and worse each time it was released because it didn't hold up well by today's standards. And because I know you're about to say it: no, sales do not equal critical appeal. Some people actually buy games specifically because they're bad.

 

Not-so-safe Safety Rails

Overall, rails tend to be very reliable in preventing an accident that costs a life or two. But those accidents can still happen if the player is at top speed in certain sections, or spindashes into them. One of the worst cases comes from trying to spindash past the double spike trap in Emerald Beach, which can cause Sonic to get through the rail next to the badnik and into the big blue underneath that area.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Glitches

This isn't a scripted event. "Scripted" implies that the control of your character is taken from you for the sake of spectacle, IE: most loops in 3D games. In '06's case, you can fly free of loops through no fault of your own in many circumstances, most notably the one at the end of Sonic's first level.

Even if these two things were related anyway, what exactly would this prove? That SA1 has glitches? I'm prepared to admit that. That has no bearing on whether '06 does, or whether they are acceptable. 

 

Even if they didn't, it was a better attempt than Sonic Colors, or even Generations, heck, Lost World's plot didn't even establish anything. They introduced plot elements and completely forgot about them. Sonic 06 didn't go into full detail but they did at least explain their origin and such. Making a random Idea even make a lick of sense is better than a well thought out idea not explaining anything.

That's how I see it anyway. What say you?

Even assuming you're right, again, all this proves that other Sonic games are similarly bad in this area. It does literally nothing to help Sonic '06's case. Reason to me why this isn't the case, then I'll give you a retort.

 

 

The spin dash hits enemies, and brings sonic to his top speed almost instantly. There are two uses for you.

Both of which can be accomplished by the slide, which is infinetely more controllable, can be performed without charging, and can slide under tight spaces (although is this even used more than once in the game? Admittedly I can't recall a single other instance other than that one tutorial sidemission for it). EDIT: Actually I remember now, if nowhere else there were those gates in Wave Ocean or whatever it was called that you could flip with the slide, so yeah, I guess it was used more than once

But this is besides the point. What made the spindash (and any kind of rolling for that matter) useful in the first place is not only that the game conserves momentum on its own (something '06 doesn't do unless you're pointing in a direction), but because said momentum could be influenced by the environment around you, and you didn't lose any simply for being in midair. The spindash has none of these, and as a result is useless to the point of obscurity compared to other moves in the game.

 

 

So what your saying is, you would get hurt more if an animal jumped on you instead of magically pushing you with intense force into a wall. Is that what your saying?

Sometimes I wonder if you even read my posts honestly, because I tire sometimes of you inventing these kinds of statements based on things I didn't actually say. I said absolutely nothing about what kinds of things would hurt more than the other - in fact the point I was making in the first place is that any laws the real world follows does not necessarily apply here. And the basis for that is simply that the laws of Sonic aren't possible here, conversely, so completely negating Sonic's ability to do a specific thing - especially when it's literally his defining trait outside of his speed - because it doesn't make any sense realistically is all kinds of ludicrous.

 

And although Sonic and Pals are far from realistic, the premise of the game is "What if Sonic was real?"

Based on... what? Serious question here, has anyone involved in the game's development actually said this on the record?

 

Ok, then. Since you seem to see every one would you care to tell me of such plotholes that aren't mundane nitpicks?

Can I ask why the burden of proof is on me? Because much of the ire in this thread is people arguing against things that go without saying, so it comes off as irritating when this happens time and time again and people have to essentially re-explain an obvious stance every time.

Just... look it up on google or youtube or something if you don't believe me. Sigh. 

 

I didn't say it put the two games on the same level. All I did was relate the two because they both have story and they both have plot holes. Just because something is related does not mean that they are on the same level. Flowers and Trees both produce Oxygen. That doesn't mean that you can chop both of them down for wood though.

So... what you're trying to say is that they're unrelated aside from what specific thing.

Well, that saves me the trouble of making another argument. Thanks.

 

 

Uh... no... Big cannot kill enemies by jumping on them, Ironic as it is.

Hmm, coulda sworn that it could. Maybe I was thinking Heroes. Point taken, but mine stands.

 

On top of that, Silver's gameplay doesn't go directly against the flow/style of gameplay like that of big. Silver has to reach the goal just like in previous Sonic games. Big... fishes. Don't get me wrong, it's ok when your in the right mindset, but Sonic has always been about moving forward...

And Silver's abilities are largely obstacles to moving forward. Activating context sensitive gimmicks requires standing still for an indeterminate amount of time. The only way to attack enemies directly is to stun them, grab them and throw them, which is a three step solution to a one step problem even if you can somehow get close enough to hit them with a stun attack without hurting yourself. And attacking indirectly requires either hunting around for something you can use for a weapon or waiting for them to shoot something you can throw back, which just wastes time on the part of the player. This is before you take into account they deliberately made the slowest character in the history of the franchise (yes, even slower than Big) as a concious design decision as if it enabled anything better than what it would've been like to have him at Sonic's speed.

 

So... basically the complete inverse of Big's case.

 

In this case however Silver doesn't block your attack, he counter attacks it. As well as still attacking while players aren't attacking. This situation is different when compared to the egg commander because it 1) doesn't counter, and 2) is clearly vulnerable outside of his guard.

This isn't really distinct enough for the player to make a quantifiable exception. The player does a thing to the enemy, the enemy does a thing that negates the player's thing. The only way that makes Silver's case different is that he has a greater punishment for the player trying that thing - the player has no reason to believe the approach for getting around the enemy's thing has changed.

 

There isn't any predetermined weakness for Silver yet... and as seen with the Egg Cerberus boss, you have to wait for an opening to attack it. As such, the player should Wait in response to not being able to attack Silver immediately, much like the Egg Cerberus boss.

Egg Cerberus's weakness is only obvious because invisible characters in the background actually point it out, for starters. For another, Cerberus's animations telegraph everything he does, which gives the player a pattern they can follow and rely apon in search of a vulnerability. Silver on the other hand, has no background voices, and nothing to telegraph the fact he can not only grab you, but that he can counter your homing attack, which has worked on absolutely every other enemy in the game with no punishment thus far.

 

And again, Silver very clearly yells "HOW BOUT DIS" to alert the player that he is open since the camera isn't focused on him.

This assumes the player isn't attacking, like the game has trained them to do. Assuming they aren't grabbed while they're invincible and picking rings back up, their recovery time is otherwise easily enough to pick up the bare minimum rings to survive and attempt another attack before Silver attempts his own ranged attack (the timer for which I'm assuming resets when he grabs you, but again, correct me if I'm wrong).

 

And while it may at first sound like a stretch to you, "HAO BUT DES!?!?" isn't necessarily telegraphing a vulnerability. A few attempts failed will eventually lend the impression that Silver is unapproachable, but bear in mind the game hasn't yet introduced Silver's inability to grab new objects once he's "confirmed" them (IE: released the PK trigger), so far all the player knows Silver could just drop what he's doing and go right back for the grab again if they try to interrupt.

 

Yes, it may seem to be bottomless, but it really isn't. 

There are 3 types of glitches present.

Clipping Glitches

Scripted Glitches

Powerup/Character Glitches.

 

There are dozens of other types of glitches out there such as

Distortion Glitches

Spasm Glitches

Seizure Glitches

and many more...

Especially the dreaded glitches in which your character is locked in a void and your only choice to continue playing is to start over completely. I've posted this video already, but It wouldn't hurt to post it again would it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k6vZqPNcDo&hd=1

All this really proves is that Sonic '06 variety of glitches isn't broad, not it doesn't have a lot of them. You can have tons apon tons apon tons of glitches and only have them in a select few types - the former is important, the latter isn't.

 

I brought it up in discussion with the glitches and the principle in which a player skips a section with a glitch instead of using the prior function to get to the section after the section in which the player has skipped.

Alright, my bad for missing that. I still don't think it's terribly relevent though.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Even if they didn't, it was a better attempt than Sonic Colors, or even Generations, heck, Lost World's plot didn't even establish anything. They introduced plot elements and completely forgot about them. Sonic 06 didn't go into full detail but they did at least explain their origin and such. Making a random Idea even make a lick of sense is better than a well thought out idea not explaining anything.

That's how I see it anyway. What say you?

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on that one there Hedgy. Colors and Lost World actually evoked a sense of plot, villains that actually did their jobs competently, and the viability of actually treating Sonic well.

 

06 unfortunately, has the misfortune of having what reads like a first draft of a story, devoid of editing and processing, to the point where plot-holes reigned supreme, bases were broke, and the whole collapses upon itself.

 far all the player knows Silver could just drop what he's doing and go right back for the grab again if they try to interrupt.

Funny thing is, thanks to bad programming and game design, Silver can and has done just THAT.

[Salamander]

New Topic:

Would we be happier if the game never came to be?

(Not trying to regulate, but since most of the thread was in an incline of arguments and such, I felt as though since I caused it i should alleviate it.)

 

With questions like this, the real question is always "What would we have had instead?"  It's not like there'd have just been a big gap between Shadow in 2005 and Unleashed in 2008.  A lot of what Unleashed did was a response to the hugely negative critical reception of '06; take away '06, and you wouldn't get Unleashed, or at least not in recognisable form.  And if you take that away, everything after that falls down as well.  For the sake of argument, though, if that did happen - if mainline Sonic was on hiatus from 2005 until 2008 and Unleashed kind of came out of nowhere - then we might actually be happier.  Sonic would have lost a certain amount of credibility in the intervening years, because Shadow was also poorly-received and because Sonic wouldn't have had a main console game in years.  Unleashed would probably be more clearly seen as a kind of soft reboot after that sort of gap.  Probably people wouldn't be happy with the "sudden" drop in the cast numbers, but might be willing to overlook that simply as it'd be a Sonic game in which you go fast... although the Werehog's combat focus might be seen as in some way owing to Shadow's weapon-based gameplay...  Honestly, it's tricky.  In this unrealistic scenario, things might well have been better for Sonic, though.

 

On the other hand, what would we have gotten instead?  To answer that, we have to look at '06 as an anomaly and ask what the actual logical evolution of Sonic after the previous few titles (Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow) would be.  And gameplay-wise we'd probably have gotten something not dissimilar to '06 - though for the sake of argument let's say they actually were given time to finish it - but the plot might have been something a lot more conventional.  Less time-travel, for one thing.  Probably still a Monster of the Week and lots of humans - honestly, in many ways '06 was pretty consistent with the games that led up to it.  I'm going to say maybe the plot would have been a lot less convoluted and a lot less fantasy-based; more sci-fi, really.  Still, I suspect that a lot of the same criticisms would've been made, just perhaps with less ferocity?

 

I don't know, but in writing this, '06 starts to look awfully inevitable as a part of the Sonic series.

 

What could've made the game redeemable or at least adequate to you guys?

What could've been changed, what could've been left out?

How could this game be perfect? What changes would it have to go through? (Gameplay-Wise)

 

I don't know about gameplay-wise, other than it being more polished, more forgiving, having more checkpoints.  Story-wise, though, I think you'd need to rip it up into its component parts and concentrate on what they're really about, and write a whole new plot from there.  Sonic is rescuing a princess from Eggman, who wants to use her hidden powers for some diabolical plot - okay, that's a bit odd, but put more emphasis on Eggman's diabolical plot and you'll be fine.  Shadow is fighting a mysterious enemy but who's also introduced, I think, as an element of Eggman's diabolical plot - okay, everything's coming together around Eggman now.  Silver's come from the future to prevent a disaster that dooms his timeline - good stuff, just reorient all this around Eggman and things are actually looking pretty solid.  Just cut the hedgehog-human romance, cut Sonic dying, cut Mephiles looking like Shadow (a pointless anime plot device that signifies nothing), and work out a plot that's a lot less magical and a lot more sci-fi.

[Tara]

With questions like this, the real question is always "What would we have had instead?"  It's not like there'd have just been a big gap between Shadow in 2005 and Unleashed in 2008.  A lot of what Unleashed did was a response to the hugely negative critical reception of '06; take away '06, and you wouldn't get Unleashed, or at least not in recognisable form.  And if you take that away, everything after that falls down as well.  For the sake of argument, though, if that did happen - if mainline Sonic was on hiatus from 2005 until 2008 and Unleashed kind of came out of nowhere - then we might actually be happier.  Sonic would have lost a certain amount of credibility in the intervening years, because Shadow was also poorly-received and because Sonic wouldn't have had a main console game in years.  Unleashed would probably be more clearly seen as a kind of soft reboot after that sort of gap.  Probably people wouldn't be happy with the "sudden" drop in the cast numbers, but might be willing to overlook that simply as it'd be a Sonic game in which you go fast... although the Werehog's combat focus might be seen as in some way owing to Shadow's weapon-based gameplay...  Honestly, it's tricky.  In this unrealistic scenario, things might well have been better for Sonic, though.

You're forgetting about Secret Rings.  It's not a "main series" game sure, but it's still plays close enough to one that Sega felt the need to modify and adapt the gamelay engine for use in every Wii-based Sonic game.  So it only be a one year hiatus, really. ^.^;;

 

That being said, I think Secret Rings did take some cues from Sonic '06, so that would have been drastically different had '06 not existed.  A lot of people are upset that Sega seem to be taking things into a very "for children" approach since they're afraid that darker stories will bring to mind all kinds of unpleasant '06 memories, but I'm honestly quite happy with the tonal atmosphere and the direction the series has now, even if the plots are sort of watered down.  It's not to say that I wouldn't mind a more weighted and complex plot from the series, but I'd much rather have a simple story done semi-okay than a downright terrible attempt at a complex story.  If the change in tonality is a response to the critical backlash of '06, then I'm more than okay with it existing, though it does make me upset that it continues to impact the critical and financial success of the series today.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

You're forgetting about Secret Rings.  It's not a "main series" game sure, but it's still plays close enough to one that Sega felt the need to modify and adapt the gamelay engine for use in every Wii-based Sonic game.  So it only be a one year hiatus, really. ^.^;;

 

Funny thing, it seems that via the likes of Generations and then this official vid from SEGA of America:

 

It would appear that Secret Rings is basically canon to the main series as far as SEGA and Sonic Team are concerned.

[DarkLight]

I think the fact that it was the first Sonic game on the Wii was also a factor.

[Salamander]

I didn't forget Secret Rings, I just considered it as a spin-off, but perhaps I wasn't giving it enough credit.  I still think the main point stands, though.  If Sonic '06 had never existed, any games that responded to it wouldn't have existed in the same way - and it shows, in all the discussions we have about how the perpetuation of Sonic-only gameplay and the underuse of Sonic's friends all have their roots in Sonic '06's reception.

[DBZHedgy]

But you see, that's precisely what I was talking about. I, and more than a few others here, are perfectly alright with people liking Sonic 06. Reasons like "because I had fun with it" do carry weight in this realm; not because liking the game makes it good, but because liking the game is perfectly alright. The game doesn't need to be good to be enjoyable, which I suppose is lucky for it, because it isn't a good game in the slightest. You've been campaigning to expand England's empire, but you've only found yourself on English soil. Everything you're fighting for is already won here.

 

You yourself have said that Sonic 06 isn't the greatest, yet you still seem to like it enough to defend it so heartily. All of our arguments, all of our words, all of our bluster comes down to this: Like 06 however you please, if only you'll acknowledge it for what it is, as a rather poorly made game. Nothing more or less than that. Whatever reasons we have given you are only in service to that point. Ignore all the little points, and just focus on the one here. What say you?

Wait. Hold on. 

What defines a game as good? It's already opinion based... so how is it that games that everyone loves are considered bad games?And if these games are considered bad, then why is it that people may like them?

 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's still tasteless both ways. But it's less beneficial to ridicule people knowing they can and will prove you wrong, than it is to ridicule people and know that people will be on your side.

Wait... isn't that bullying? Not saying that you guys are doing this to me, but the main prinicple that you just stated greatly resembles bullying in a sense or fashion.

That's a bit off topic though isn't it?

 

 

This was not an absolutionist statement.

I have very often agreed with the people that I've debated with. That cannot be said for many others however... They just stop posting, then come back on an entirely new topic. :/

 

 

...nothing? SA1's critical appeal became worse and worse each time it was released because it didn't hold up well by today's standards. And because I know you're about to say it: no, sales do not equal critical appeal. Some people actually buy games specifically because they're bad.

Last time I checked the game had a 4 star rating on PSN...

I guess I was mistaken then. That would thus mean that the love for this game is almost exclusively nostalgia driven. Suddenly, like 06 just because it was your first Sonic game doesn't seem to be so trivial (not saying that 06 was my first Sonic game. That title goes to Sonic 3)

 

This isn't a scripted event. "Scripted" implies that the control of your character is taken from you for the sake of spectacle, IE: most loops in 3D games. In '06's case, you can fly free of loops through no fault of your own in many circumstances, most notably the one at the end of Sonic's first level.

 Yes, and the loop in which you mentioned from the mach speed section takes control away from the player, just as how the adventure loop in emerald coast is a scripted event. Miscalculations in both adventure and 06 is what cause these moments to mess up. This is probably the reasons no loops are implemented into Sonic Lost World...

 

 

Even if these two things were related anyway, what exactly would this prove? That SA1 has glitches? I'm prepared to admit that. That has no bearing on whether '06 does, or whether they are acceptable. 

It isn't to say that it only occurs in Adventure and 06, but in Adventure 2, and rarely in Heroes. 

It wouldn't really prove anything other than the idea that if it's acceptable once it can be acceptable again. I'm sure many people have fallen victim to circumstance because of these glitches in prior games, so might I ask again. Why is it that these glitches are treated so harshly in 06, yet it's almost completely ignored in Adventure and Adventure 2. I've seen people fall victim to it, only to shrug it off. Whereas people who take a crack at 06, they literally wait for the opportunity to point out that the game isn't perfect. Why is that? They're both the same concept, they both occur in the same instances, what makes it something that's shrugged off in adventure yet undeniable in 06? The Increased Speed or Spin dash results in clipping, and scripted issues, with kill you. As such, the player avoids doing such things the second time. In Wave Ocean's Mach Speed Section, death is caused by moving to far to the right. As a result the player should adjust themselves accordingly to avoid this from happening again.

 

 

Even assuming you're right, again, all this proves that other Sonic games are similarly bad in this area. It does literally nothing to help Sonic '06's case. Reason to me why this isn't the case, then I'll give you a retort.

Exactly, they're all similarly bad, however the manner in which 06's problems are judged are harsher. Why? All it seems like to me is minor nitpicking, and that's primarily what I wanted to know. 

It depends on the way in which you talk about it. If the problem is exclusive to 06 it seems worse by comparison, but if the problems are all equally as bad than it should be an even slate. Never once have I heard someone say. Man, those scripted sections in Adventure were so awful. Or to a better extent Adventure 2, mainly due to it's staggering grasp it has on Fanboys and Fangirls alike.

 

 

Both of which can be accomplished by the slide, which is infinetely more controllable, can be performed without charging, and can slide under tight spaces (although is this even used more than once in the game? Admittedly I can't recall a single other instance other than that one tutorial sidemission for it). EDIT: Actually I remember now, if nowhere else there were those gates in Wave Ocean or whatever it was called that you could flip with the slide, so yeah, I guess it was used more than once

No... the Slide doesn't let you reach top speed instantly. It just lets you attack while moving. It's kinda like the slide was the newer version of the spin dash in Sonic Adventure. Y'know, how it slowed down the player while still protecting them? In that case, that would mean that the slide would either be an extension of the spin dash, or a means to alleviate the spin dash entirely, something they've chosen to do in games after 06.

Response to Edit: Don't forget the laser section in aquatic base. And that part in Radical Train. Yeesh, the slide is more useful than the spin dash in Sonic Adventure... 

 

 

But this is besides the point. What made the spindash (and any kind of rolling for that matter) useful in the first place is not only that the game conserves momentum on its own (something '06 doesn't do unless you're pointing in a direction), but because said momentum could be influenced by the environment around you, and you didn't lose any simply for being in midair. The spindash has none of these, and as a result is useless to the point of obscurity compared to other moves in the game.

What use does the Adventure spin dash have outside of that however? You don't need the spin dash at all to advance through the game. It was only a means of acceleration. The Light Speed Dash is just as useless. You only use it... 3 times... Once to get out of the sewers, once to get the light speed ring, and once to get to the final part of the final egg. Or you can just break the game with the regular spin dash to get there. Either Way, the spin dash alone isn't very useful unless your speedrunning, same for the gems in Sonic 06. 

It is useless compared to the one in adventure, but they actually fixed the mechanic. You know how people have stated that Omega's Gliding is broken? And you can use it to get almost anywhere? And y'know how that's BAD? Useful, but BAD? That's the spin dash. 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if you even read my posts honestly, because I tire sometimes of you inventing these kinds of statements based on things I didn't actually say. I said absolutely nothing about what kinds of things would hurt more than the other - in fact the point I was making in the first place is that any laws the real world follows does not necessarily apply here. And the basis for that is simply that the laws of Sonic aren't possible here, conversely, so completely negating Sonic's ability to do a specific thing - especially when it's literally his defining trait outside of his speed - because it doesn't make any sense realistically is all kinds of ludicrous.

How could I form that last statement without reading AND comprehending your post? 

The stance of the post was. "It's more realistic" As such, I've compared the game to a realistic situation. And the "inventing" of these statements come from the implications of your statements prior. 

 

If the game doesn't follow any REAL laws, then why is it that people constantly criticize the game for lacking physics or momentum? People have posted content about the game in this forum about said subjects. 

 

No, Sonic's Spin Attack wasn't his defining trait. Almost every platformer back then jumped on enemies to kill them. It was quite mainstream actually. I believe that Sonic's most defining trait is his speed and spin dash. These two abilities are exclusive (or was exclusive) to sonic, and as such that's what define him.

 

 

Based on... what? Serious question here, has anyone involved in the game's development actually said this on the record?

 

Can I ask why the burden of proof is on me? Because much of the ire in this thread is people arguing against things that go without saying, so it comes off as irritating when this happens time and time again and people have to essentially re-explain an obvious stance every time.

The first statement Contradicts the last. Why is it that I have to provide evidence, but you do not (for this subject at least)? 

 

Either way, In Several interviews and previews there were panels and such, boasting the question "What if Sonic was real" I could be wrong, but several forumers have posted this same statement several times. They seem to be pretty sure about the statement so ask them.

 

As for the proof, I cannot find any. I usually find a big old discussion of how the entire Sonic universe has plotholes, (Not just 06) or some discussion where a guy makes sense of the Time Space continuim of the Sonic Universe.

Either Way, I was referring to your perception of these plot holes. I want to know what plot holes you find so glaring. 

But, Again, I do not recall any plot holes other than Blaze and the Blue Chaos Emerald. 

Here's A link just in case you forgot what a plot hole is (Wasn't trying to come off as condescending) 

People Constantly say that 06 has so many plot holes but the only two that are ACTUAL plot holes are the ones stated above. 

 

And Silver's abilities are largely obstacles to moving forward. Activating context sensitive gimmicks requires standing still for an indeterminate amount of time. The only way to attack enemies directly is to stun them, grab them and throw them, which is a three step solution to a one step problem even if you can somehow get close enough to hit them with a stun attack without hurting yourself. And attacking indirectly requires either hunting around for something you can use for a weapon or waiting for them to shoot something you can throw back, which just wastes time on the part of the player. This is before you take into account they deliberately made the slowest character in the history of the franchise (yes, even slower than Big) as a concious design decision as if it enabled anything better than what it would've been like to have him at Sonic's speed.

 

So... basically the complete inverse of Big's case.

Actually, all the player has to do for those "Undetermined amounts of time" was tap the R trigger or R2, For like 1 Second. 

You can also Counter Attack Enemies. That is a direct attack. 

When referring to the "pimp slap" You don't have to be right up under the monster. You can simply use the psychic smash in the air, and that will get the job done. It has a farther reach, and it's easier to escape enemy attacks. 

Where-ever an enemy may appear there are always indestructible obstacles the player can use multiple times to destroy their enemy. Even when you consider trying to find it, the item is always in reach. The game never made you take a long trek back to another part of the level JUST to get something to hit the enemy with. The game often makes Enemies through their own projectiles that can be grabbed and thrown right back at them.

 

Silver is not Slower than Big. There is no denying that. Unless you have evidence that contradicts this. 

Whether or not Silver is slow, the only time it's a real problem is in the hub worlds. All of Silver's levels HEAVILY focus on platforming, and his psychokinetic abilities. And since Silver is slow, this makes a good mix. 

 

Big on the other hand does not need to take out enemies to proceed, cannot platform, does not focus on getting to the goal, and generally doesn't really relate to Sonic games in anyway. Big is basically a tiny little smidgen of Sega Bass Fishing with a jump, a walk cycle and an attack added. 

 

So, no. Not the inverse of Big's Case.

 

 

This isn't really distinct enough for the player to make a quantifiable exception. The player does a thing to the enemy, the enemy does a thing that negates the player's thing. The only way that makes Silver's case different is that he has a greater punishment for the player trying that thing - the player has no reason to believe the approach for getting around the enemy's thing has changed.

 

Egg Cerberus's weakness is only obvious because invisible characters in the background actually point it out, for starters. For another, Cerberus's animations telegraph everything he does, which gives the player a pattern they can follow and rely apon in search of a vulnerability. Silver on the other hand, has no background voices, and nothing to telegraph the fact he can not only grab you, but that he can counter your homing attack, which has worked on absolutely every other enemy in the game with no punishment thus far.

 

This assumes the player isn't attacking, like the game has trained them to do. Assuming they aren't grabbed while they're invincible and picking rings back up, their recovery time is otherwise easily enough to pick up the bare minimum rings to survive and attempt another attack before Silver attempts his own ranged attack (the timer for which I'm assuming resets when he grabs you, but again, correct me if I'm wrong).

 

And while it may at first sound like a stretch to you, "HAO BUT DES!?!?" isn't necessarily telegraphing a vulnerability. A few attempts failed will eventually lend the impression that Silver is unapproachable, but bear in mind the game hasn't yet introduced Silver's inability to grab new objects once he's "confirmed" them (IE: released the PK trigger), so far all the player knows Silver could just drop what he's doing and go right back for the grab again if they try to interrupt.

No, it does make a clear distinction. After dying or being caught by silver at least once, but nonetheless it still occurs. The Egg Cerberus Boss tells you basically, Don't jump the gun, wait for an opening. Since it's the first boss, the player would generally think that both bosses work the same way (In fact all the bosses work that way, in Sonic's story at least). As such the inclination to wait for an opening is even stronger. And with the Egg Commander scenario, they block your attacks, they don't directly assault you after Sonic hits them. They guard until Sonic waits for an opening and catches them off guard. And that's what the player should do for silver. You can't hit him until his guard is down. The only viable time for attack is when Silver screams "how bout dis". If the player were to avoid Silver for 5 minutes straight, the only thing they would hear Silver say is "HOW BOUT DIS", that also implies that you need to wait for an opening. Since Silver is in the same stance as when grabbing the player the first time, and seeing as how he was motionless then, that would imply that he cannot do anything until after he's done this attack. 

 

 

All this really proves is that Sonic '06 variety of glitches isn't broad, not it doesn't have a lot of them. You can have tons apon tons apon tons of glitches and only have them in a select few types - the former is important, the latter isn't.

Yes, but these glitches can be avoided very easily. If an experienced gamer (or an gamer for that matter) Ran into a glitch in a certain spot, their next idea would be to avoid doing the same thing in which they did the last time. It's like getting pricked by a nail. After experiencing it, you know how to avoid it and as such you stay away from what causes this to happen. This not only works when dealing with glitches but with Tedious gameplay sections as well. And to top that off, the clipping glitches and Character glitches (other than Sonic's meter, which isn't that big or a deal anyway) don't occur twice in a row. It's completely Random. The wall climbing glitch for example.

 

 

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on that one there Hedgy. Colors and Lost World actually evoked a sense of plot, villains that actually did their jobs competently, and the viability of actually treating Sonic well.

 

06 unfortunately, has the misfortune of having what reads like a first draft of a story, devoid of editing and processing, to the point where plot-holes reigned supreme, bases were broke, and the whole collapses upon itself.

Funny thing is, thanks to bad programming and game design, Silver can and has done just THAT.

I respectfully respect you respectfully disagreement, but I respectfully disagree with your statement as well.

 

Villains that do their Job competently hardly fits the bill for Generations, Colors, and Lost World.

Colors - Eggman sends his robots to find and capture wisps, while they lazily slack off without eggman knowing any better, potentially ruining his plans. As well as Eggman being, absent for almost the whole plot for no real reason. Not to Mention that Dr. Eggman is hardly the Evil Scientist he made himself out to be. He literally leaves his base of operations open to the public, giving Sonic a free ticket to ruin his plans. It's almost as if he was asking for it...

Generations - The Latter Dr. Eggman Fails to erase his Nemesis from time to ensure that his plans for world domination do not fail. The Prior Dr. Eggman doesn't really do anything...

Lost World - The Deadly Six are not only the worst band of "Monster of the week"(especially considering they just cut them from the game when the ending followed suit), but they act stupid as well. And they don't even mention why they want to suck the planet dry either, the same thing Rusty Spy persistently bugged me about when discussing Mephiles Character, except the game actually confirmed that Mephiles only wanted destruction. The Deadly Six just do it, with no indication or reason whatsoever. Revenge? Who knows, the game never says. Eggman is terrible as well. The writers build him up so nicely, only to look completely stupid at the end. Not to mention the game doesn't bother to tell you how eggman survived or even made the mech in that short amount of time to being with. 

 

As for Treating Sonic right, I'd hardly see it as doing Sonic any justice. Yea, Sonic's in the spotlight again, but he's just so... dumb! And out of character! He's never been this Rash before, and he never just stood there doing nothing. Sonic get's extremely bored, extremely quickly. His idle animation was one of the main things that gave Sonic Character. He liked to get things done, and fast. Standing around doing absolutely nothing in most cutscenes of Sonic Colors, Generations, and Lost World greatly contradict his core personality. Sonic may have been boring in 06, but at least he kept to his character.

[Chaos Incarnate]

If you hate all of the games in question, then I ponder why your on this forum, seeing as how many of the games I've compared it to are Sonic related. But Again, I am quite sure that Many who have discussed this game with me on this topic do enjoy the games that I have cited. 

As a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog and making sure to specifically present my argument as a "what if" scenario, I find this down right offensive and insulting. I'm a huge fan of Sonic, and you questioning me being on this site is just plain rude.

 

Think before you speak next time.