Plot Inconsistencies?

[- Eternal Paradox -]

The Heroes/Shadow Shadow clone thing. In Heroes, Omega says "You know about cloning. The original must exist somewhere." This implies they are all clones. But in Shadow's game, they are all androids instead. While I've heard Shadow called a biological android before, it's pretty explicit the ones in ShTH are mechanical ones. Why the sudden change? Isn't it kind of redundant, given that the whole idea behind copying Shadow would be to harness his immense power on a large scale? If Eggman just wanted mechanical copies, why didn't he do that from the start and create a Metal Shadow?

 

Come to think of it. Why an army of metallic Shadows and not an army of metallic Sonics? There's nothing special about robots, unlike clones.

 

I'm pretty sure it's just a mistranslation, or an overcomplication. The Shadow "Androids" are Robotic clones. Or something or other. Like, Eggman created robot-clones of Shadow, since he's got an obssession with Robots.

 

Or the android part could just be that they've got robotic brains that Eggman has control over.

[iDEATH]

If the first couple games are consigned to the one island, they have the weirdest eco systems ever, beaches, jungles, desserts, ice caps......how dat work?

[MamboCat]

They're really big islands?!

[Spin Attaxx]

No.

 

The Blue Emerald does whatever it does in all the games and then ends up in White Acropolis.

Silver finds it, and takes it back in time and give it to the young Elise.

Ten years later, Elise gives the emerald to Sonic who takes it to Dr. Eggman who uses it to power his time machine to zap Sonic, Tails and Knuckles away to the future.

It STAYS in the time machine till Mephilies draws all the emeralds together at the end.

 

There is no emerald plothole. 

 

Actually, I believe it's implied Eggman put the emerald in the Egg Genesis, right after obtaining it from Sonic.

 

That pretty much destroys the theory more or less.

[The Conductor]

No where is it hinted that the emerald was inside Egg Genesis.

[Spin Attaxx]

Considering that (IIRC) Sonic had just left for White Acropolis, with Silver following afterwards (arriving by the time Sonic and co. got sent into the future) and that the cutscene where the emerald is obtained plays after the Egg Genesis is completed, I'd say it's likely that the emerald was in it.

 

Besides, why WOULDN'T Eggman put a Chaos Emerald into one of his robots to (presumably) make it stronger and thus more effective?

Edited March 11, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[The Conductor]

Except when Sonic fights Egg Genesis it doesn't have an emerald and is just as strong as it is when Silver fights it. 

 

But let's just say that there IS an emerald inside Egg Genesis, it can't be the one Elise had, it HAS to be the one Elise will get or else it becomes a plothole.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Gotta say, I find it more likely that the blue Emerald Sonic gave Eggman was in Egg Genesis, than there being two different temporally-displaced blue Emeralds at the same location and point in time simultaneously.

 

Unless one of them was a fake...

 

"You thought you could fool me with that fake Emerald, didn't you?"

[Vertekins]

In Colours, Sonic expresses amazement at the knowledge that Eggman kidnapped an entire planet and chained it to his park and wonders how he did it.

 

He either has a short term memory or forgot about how Eggman enslaved the Little Planet in Sonic CD.

[The Conductor]

Your avatar is from Back to the Future and you think two of the same thing being in the same place and time because of time travel shenanigans is unlikely? 

[Spin Attaxx]

Except when Sonic fights Egg Genesis it doesn't have an emerald and is just as strong as it is when Silver fights it. 

 

But let's just say that there IS an emerald inside Egg Genesis, it can't be the one Elise had, it HAS to be the one Elise will get or else it becomes a plothole.

 

Silver destroyed the Egg Genesis at first, then Eggman rebuilt it (or sent out another one) and sent it after Sonic. And we can chalk up the no-apparant-power-increase to Gameplay and Story Segregation.

 

Also it IS the emerald Elise had, since she throws it to Sonic after getting kidnapped, then Sonic has it until he's sent to the future, then Eggman puts the emerald into the E.G., then Silver gets it and leaves it with Elise, where she grows up with it and throws it to Sonic when Eggman kidnaps her and do you see the whole thing IS a plothole. That's why it was brought up to begin with.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Sparky]

Whatever the case is, there can't be more then one of the same emerald in one timeline, because the emeralds all exist at the same time throughout Time and Space (Ex. Nega turns the Future!Master Emerald into a card, Present!M.E. vanishes right before Knux's eyes)

[Rally the Cheetah]

I was always impressed by the number of labs/workshops Tails had and wondered if the one from Rush was the same as the one from Adventure. There was an ocean near it after all and its sprite looks similar. Then there's the workshop at the end of Advance 3. Which one is it? Could it be the inside of the one from Adventure or perhaps it's the one from Sonic Battle that's shaped like Tails' head. As for the workshops mentioned in Sonic the fighters and Chronicles I really do'[t consider those cannon. His house in Tails Adventure I could see though. 

[iDEATH]

I was always impressed by the number of labs/workshops Tails had and wondered if the one from Rush was the same as the one from Adventure. There was an ocean near it after all and its sprite looks similar. Then there's the workshop at the end of Advance 3. Which one is it? Could it be the inside of the one from Adventure or perhaps it's the one from Sonic Battle that's shaped like Tails' head. As for the workshops mentioned in Sonic the fighters and Chronicles I really do'[t consider those cannon. His house in Tails Adventure I could see though. 

 

Tails is practically a property mogul yet sonic doesn't have a house.......scumbag

[Vertekins]

Tails is practically a property mogul yet sonic doesn't have a house.......scumbag

 

For all we know, this could be Sonic's abode

 

 

There's even a globe, telescope and what appears to be a map on the table. They may very well belong to Sonic (He is a traveller) and may be intentional hints that this is indeed his house.

[Anti Alias]

Sonic would be somewhat like a furry Nathan Drake in his free time.

 

wouldn't be a surprise if he had lot's of explorer's gear.

[Sparky]

I was always impressed by the number of labs/workshops Tails had and wondered if the one from Rush was the same as the one from Adventure. There was an ocean near it after all and its sprite looks similar. Then there's the workshop at the end of Advance 3. Which one is it? Could it be the inside of the one from Adventure or perhaps it's the one from Sonic Battle that's shaped like Tails' head. As for the workshops mentioned in Sonic the fighters and Chronicles I really do'[t consider those cannon. His house in Tails Adventure I could see though. 

The way I see it, Tails has a house in various areas around the world as resting spots inbetween adventuring w/ Sonic.

[Tani Coyote]

Fictional time travel is basically 100% making shit up, so if the writer wants it that way, there's nothing to stop them from making it that way.

 

...I... can't really disagree with this. Well said!

 

Much later in the comic, with  the whole "Sonic created Robotnik" storyline... that was cool. Oh and the pained expression on Sonic's face when he realises what he's done. Ooooh maaan that's gotta hurt.

 

That was just awesome (and sad). It's an excellent point in his character, showing that as much of a colossal douchebag as he is, he's still caring despite his apathetic facade. If time travel worked more like that, rather than the constant back and forth wtfery of 06, I think it wouldn't hurt the brain quite as much. There are paradoxes no matter how one approaches time travel, yes, but if kept to a minimum it's tolerable. 06 was just all over the place with them.

 

 

But yeah... Time Eater. Does stuff with Time. Brings back Crisis City. i'm fine with that.  I also think that since Silver is an obvious reference to Trunks, that his future is written with the same rules as nice and polite Future Trunks' was; basically when someone comes back in time and changes stuff they create a new timeline separate from their own. Trunks' world is still destroyed by Cell, and he is seen going forward to his own timeline to kill Imperfect Cell. Just as Silver is seen going forward in time to destroy Iblis. It doesn't matter that Elise erased the whole timeline in her world.

 

This would be the easiest way to explain the time travel, definitely. Unfortunately Sega hasn't decided to roll with the alternate dimensions theory... which just leads to a load of confusion. The exact destroyer of Silver's future changes each time he makes an appearance. I dunno what deity he pissed off, but it seems like his future is destroyed no matter what he does.

 

@ Paradise:

 

They explode into robotic parts when you destroy them, so they're robotic definitely.

 

Though you raise a point. In Team Dark's story destroyed Shadow robots are seen with Eggman. So it really is a pretty bad mistranslation on Sega's part I guess.

[- Eternal Paradox -]

@ Paradise:

 

They explode into robotic parts when you destroy them, so they're robotic definitely.

 

Though you raise a point. In Team Dark's story destroyed Shadow robots are seen with Eggman. So it really is a pretty bad mistranslation on Sega's part I guess.

 

Yep, they're robotic alright. They even make robot noises similar to Metal Sonic.

So they're robots... But Omega mentions cloning so an element of cloning must be involved... so they're... robot clones?

I dunno, the best example I can think of is that Sally robot-clone from SATAM...

Unrelated, but whenever anyone brings up the subject of Shadow androids, I always think of this parody...

[Emmett L. Brown]

Your avatar is from Back to the Future and you think two of the same thing being in the same place and time because of time travel shenanigans is unlikely? 

On the scale of argument strength that one ranks at about "I surrender unconditionally."

[Tani Coyote]

So they're robots... But Omega mentions cloning so an element of cloning must be involved... so they're... robot clones?

I dunno, the best example I can think of is that Sally robot-clone from SATAM...

 

Hmm. There actually is an explanation here. In the OVA, Metal was created by scanning Sonic's "life data" and was basically supposed to be a perfect match physically and mentally, albeit metallic. Presumably the Shadow Androids work the same way... but they're so easily destroyed it tears that idea to shreds.

 

They could be cyborgs. Now, one asks how that's possible. It turns out the term cyborg doesn't actually mean organisms augmented with cybernetics; it can be the other way around too. Think the Terminators - they're robotic, but they have actual flesh grafted onto them to help them blend in, capable of sweating, bleeding, etc. It's possible the Shadow Androids are robots with genetic copies of Shadow's body laid on top of them... basically it's the same as you and me, just replacing the organs and skeleton with metal and processors.

 

Really I think it may have just been a translation error. I assume Omega actually meant something akin to "copying." As in, Eggman used the real Shadow as a model for his knockoffs.

[- Eternal Paradox -]

I'd like to put a little bit of focus on the word Android. See, this term was chosen over the term "Robot" in Shadow the Hedgehog. According to wikipedia, it means "An android is a robot or synthetic organism designed to look and act like a human, especially one with a body having a flesh-like resemblance."

 

Now, if we re-interprete "human" to mean "inteligent life-forms" this opens up a lot of possiblities for our Shadow Androids. They're designed to simulate Shadow in the closest possible way.

 

What I find interesting about this, is we could probably define the orginal Shadow as an android.

 

Reguarding how easy they are to destroy (I didn't find them that easy), our good friend Omega states something along the lines of "Does not compute - Shadow android combat abilities infirior to the Shadow's- must be a defective unit." I can't find the actual quote, but it's something like that. Possibly the whole batch was faultly? The Shadow Androids seen in multi-player are certainly harder and closer to the real thing.

 

The androids do actually exhibt traits similar to Shadows - they'll match his jump acttacks, and their hand blaster could be seen as a form of primitive chaos spear.

[Jolt_TH]

I just thought of another one, not sure if its a plot consistency but hey!

Ok, so in BOTH incarnations of Ice Cap Sonic comes across and uses a snowboard...well the ONLY people on the island are Knux, Sonic and Robotnik, and obviously Sonic didn't put it there, so who did? And why would they just leave it there? And not take it with them? Are Knux or Robotnik snowboard enthusiasts?

Also in the SA rendition, Knux again is the ONLY person on the island, and Ice Cap is ON angel Island...so why are there hot air balloons and I think a Ski challet at the end of the me level in the background? Has Knux started an Angel Island tourism ring?

Edited March 13, 2013 by Jolt_TH

[Vertekins]

Ok, so in BOTH incarnations of Ice Cap Sonic comes across and uses a snowboard...well the ONLY people on the island are Knux, Sonic and Robotnik, and obviously Sonic didn't put it there, so who did? And why would they just leave it there? And not take it with them? Are Knux or Robotnik snowboard enthusiasts?

 

The original plan for that part entailed Sonic leaping out of Flying Battery and using the door that detaches as the snowboard. In development, Flying Battery was planned to be in Sonic 3 and was to come between Carnival Night and Icecap. Because the zone was moved to S&K, the "door as board" idea was nixed and replaced with a generic snowboard.

[Linkabel]

Whatever the case is, there can't be more then one of the same emerald in one timeline, because the emeralds all exist at the same time throughout Time and Space (Ex. Nega turns the Future!Master Emerald into a card, Present!M.E. vanishes right before Knux's eyes)

 

When this happened in the Rival series it made me questioned something too. So if anything happens to an emerald in a certain period of time, but they exist at the same time throughout time and space...then doesn't mean that when the Master Emerald was broken in SA1 and SA2 it means that it was broken literally across time and space.

 

I'm just imagining poor classic Knuckles and even Chaos in the past going all "wtf" when it happened.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Jaime Bond