Plot Inconsistencies?

[Tani Coyote]

The whole story concept of Crisis City reappearing in Generations speaks for itself. 06 basically erased itself from canon, but then crisis city appears as one of the stages. 

 

Well logically if it existed at some point, the Time Eater could temporarily make it so it was never erased, allowing it to appear again. Then once the Time Eater's beaten, it returns to full non-existence.

 

Time travel's confusing! The future stage was erased in the past, and then the erasing was erased by a villain, and then when the villain was defeated the stage was erased yet again.

 

In Sonic Unleashed, Sonic being immune to Dark Gaia's mind-controlling abilities is a pretty important plot point. Yet in Sonic Rivals 2, the Ifrit manages to put him under mind control with no effort at all. I do wonder if Eggman's mind control ray in Colours would even have any effect on Sonic if he was hit with it.

 

Ouch. That's a pretty good point. "You're too strong to lose yourself." Tell that to the Ifrit!

 

I mean. I suppose the excuse would be Dark Gaia amplifies feelings that are already there, whereas the Ifrit goes for direct mind control. Logically if Sonic has little negativity in him to begin with, Dark Gaia's power has no effect. It's like that attack in Dragon Ball that turns a person's darkness against them and destroys them with it; a person with a pure heart won't be hurt at all by it.

 

Ninja'd by Diogenes. Good to see I'm not the only one with the idea at least!

Edited March 11, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[Komodin]

In Sonic Unleashed, Sonic being immune to Dark Gaia's mind-controlling abilities is a pretty important plot point. Yet in Sonic Rivals 2, the Ifrit manages to put him under mind control with no effort at all.

 

In addition to it being a fighting-focused spinoff, I'd chalk that up to simply being Gameplay and Story Segregation; no matter who you played as, your story partner is your opponent during the fight with the Ifrit.

[Tani Coyote]

In addition to it being a fighting-focused spinoff, I'd chalk that up to simply being Gameplay and Story Segregation; no matter who you played as, your story partner is your opponent during the fight with the Ifrit.

 

Come to think of it I wonder why the Ifrit, despite being some demigod-like beast, didn't just mind control both characters.

 

It really is gameplay/story segregation, because that would be the common sense approach to get rid of the threat.

[KHCast]

I don't know why people have a problem with a magic time-shredding monster being able to get his hands on an alternate timeline.Like, this is all loose fictional time bullshit as it is; what reason is there to say that he can't grab it the same as every other level?

im not saying there's a problem with it. But is there a problem with coming up with other theories as to crisis cities existence?

[Straw Hat]

Going back to S3&K... Shouldn't Angel Island still be on fire...?

[Diogenes]

im not saying there's a problem with it. But is there a problem with coming up with other theories as to crisis cities existence?

There's not really a need to and there's basically no evidence to support anything considering Generations' story could be written on the head of a pin? Edited March 11, 2013 by Diogenes

[Komodin]

Going back to S3&K... Shouldn't Angel Island still be on fire...?

 

Why would it? Fire don't last forever.

[KHCast]

There's not really a need to and there's basically no evidence to support anything considering Generations' story could be written on the head of a pin?

theres also no need to explain a lot of stuff in the series. It's just interesting to go into exploring other explanations. And considering,like you said,generations has a plot thinner than air, it could be explained either way really.

[Tani Coyote]

im not saying there's a problem with it. But is there a problem with coming up with other theories as to crisis cities existence?

 

 

A bit crude but I think you'll get the idea. Logically if you go back in a point before someone changed something, you can undo the change. Given that the Time Eater possibly could have existed since the beginning of time itself, there is no real way to outdo it.

 

Of course it shows how messed up the time/space continuum was by its actions that Sonic didn't even cease to exist.

[Gabz Girl]

Here's one that always bothered me from Sonic 06 (and that game is full of plot inconsistencies!). If Elise was given the blue Chaos Emerald by Silver in the past, it means that one Chaos Emerald was missing throughout the entire series! So how did Sonic 1, 2, 3, S&K, SA1, SA2, Sonic Heroes etc. ever happen then? O_o

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

well it was kinda suppossed to be a partial reboot, so maybe none of those happened(well actualy S1 could have, it only had 6).... or it opens up the whole more than 6 emerald debate

[Tani Coyote]

Here's one that always bothered me from Sonic 06 (and that game is full of plot inconsistencies!). If Elise was given the blue Chaos Emerald by Silver in the past, it means that one Chaos Emerald was missing throughout the entire series! So how did Sonic 1, 2, 3, S&K, SA1, SA2, Sonic Heroes etc. ever happen then? O_o

 

I always liked the idea Chaos Emeralds are inherently linked to time/space so there can only be one at a time. Presumably if there are two time twins they will nullify each other. Now, how it's decided which emerald vanishes and which doesn't, who knows.

 

Alternatively, well, we now have another reason time travel plots are generally a bad idea. Creates far too many headaches. Time travel should be one way - forward. Barring if it's well written, such as the story about the origin of the Metallix in StC.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[KHCast]

 

A bit crude but I think you'll get the idea. Logically if you go back in a point before someone changed something, you can undo the change. Given that the Time Eater possibly could have existed since the beginning of time itself, there is no real way to outdo it.

 

Of course it shows how messed up the time/space continuum was by its actions that Sonic didn't even cease to exist.

doesn't that then support that this is crisis city DURING the events of 06? So the events actually happened?

God my head hurts. I'm just gonna keep my idea that generations isn't even canon.:/

[Vertekins]

There's one thing that mystified me about Sonic X.

 

Over the course of the series, time passes in such a way that logically, the characters must have aged one year from seasons 1 and 2 to season 3. 6 months were stated to have passed between episode 26 and 27 and 6 months were stated to have passed between episode 52 and 53. Hence at least one year chronologically passed over the course of the series.

 

However. The eyecatch cards for season 3 never featured ages. Take Sonic's season 3 eyecatcher for example;

 

 

No age stated even though logically, Sonic should be at least 16 by this point in the series. I still think that the non-inclusion of ages on season 3's eyecatchers was a sneaky way of not acknowledging the way time passes over the course of the series so there's no confusion regarding time i.e The plothole regarding timeflow in both dimensions.

[Tani Coyote]

doesn't that then support that this is crisis city DURING the events of 06? So the events actually happened?

 

Technically yes. Assuming the Time Eater wasn't defeated Solaris would have probably been restored to existence as well. Presumably without Sonic's prior victories Solaris would never have become whole, remaining split and thus, allowing Iblis to destroy the future.

 

But yes. Time travel is pretty wretched if you're not careful with its use in story.

 

There's one thing that mystified me about Sonic X.

 

Over the course of the series, time passes in such a way that logically, the characters must have aged one year from seasons 1 and 2 to season 3. 6 months were stated to have passed between episode 26 and 27 and 6 months were stated to have passed between episode 52 and 53. Hence at least one year chronologically passed over the course of the series.

 

However. The eyecatch cards for season 3 never featured ages. Take Sonic's season 3 eyecatcher for example;

 

No age stated even though logically, Sonic should be at least 16 by this point in the series. I still think that the non-inclusion of ages on season 3's eyecatchers was a sneaky way of not acknowledging the way time passes over the course of the series so there's no confusion regarding time i.e The plothole regarding timeflow in both dimensions.

 

It's always the little details they never expect you to see!

 

Neat find though, really was a clever attempt at theirs to dodge the implications of the flow of time... I mean, what, do Mobians age at the same rate they would back home, meaning years have to pass on Earth for them to even age slightly?

[JezMM]

I'm sure this has already come up but the biggest problem with 2006's story time travel wise is that they just flipflop on whether the past is something you CAN change (see: the conclusion) or that your return to the past has already happened and the timeline is set in stone (see: Mephiles knowing Shadow, Elise having the emerald, pretty much... everything aside from the ending)?

 

What a mess.

[KHCast]

*solaris and time eater partnership! You want something erased, call us!*

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I'm sure this has already come up but the biggest problem with 2006's story time travel wise is that they just flipflop on whether the past is something you CAN change (see: the conclusion) or that your return to the past has already happened and the timeline is set in stone (see: Mephiles knowing Shadow, Elise having the emerald, pretty much... everything aside from the ending)?

 

What a mess.

Quick dumb question, but can a stable time loop be broken?

[Tani Coyote]

I'm sure this has already come up but the biggest problem with 2006's story time travel wise is that they just flipflop on whether the past is something you CAN change (see: the conclusion) or that your return to the past has already happened and the timeline is set in stone (see: Mephiles knowing Shadow, Elise having the emerald, pretty much... everything aside from the ending)?

 

What a mess.

 

Yeah time travel inherently runs into problems and will quickly lead to an abundance of plotholes and inconsistencies that this topic is meant to address. There's a law of time travel actually called the consistency principle: any trip into the past must logically cause the same future you came from. Otherwise it's illogical.

 

Hence, you cannot avoid running into a mess if you change the past at all.

 

The only way to avoid a trainwreck is to instead adhere to the other theory of time travel: you create alternate dimensions when you travel back in time. If you return to a future where the effects are felt, it's not "your" reality; you created a different one. The reality you came from remains untouched. It's really the only way to explain it...

 

Barring that, keep the traveling back and forth to a minimum. StC's time travel was used sparingly and created some entertaining stories that didn't cause too many headaches. It's something that must be approached delicately.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[Diogenes]

Quick dumb question, but can a stable time loop be broken?

Fictional time travel is basically 100% making shit up, so if the writer wants it that way, there's nothing to stop them from making it that way.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Fictional time travel is basically 100% making shit up, so if the writer wants it that way, there's nothing to stop them from making it that way.

So as long as I remain consistent and don't break my own rules unless absolutely necessary, I should be fine?

[Diogenes]

Pretty much.

[MamboCat]

Barring that, keep the traveling back and forth to a minimum. StC's time travel was used sparingly and created some entertaining stories that didn't cause too many headaches. It's something that must be approached delicately.

 

:B Of course I am going to say this, but agreed - well, the first time it was used in the Sonic Terminator, I remember being very confused at the end. So, if uh... the Miracle Planet was never converted by Robotnik, Metallix was never created? Whu? It's clearly shown that Grimer developed Metallix, in the Special Zone. He's seen trashing a Sonic robot.

 

Much later in the comic, with  the whole "Sonic created Robotnik" storyline... that was cool. Oh and the pained expression on Sonic's face when he realises what he's done. Ooooh maaan that's gotta hurt.

 

Oh, oh! And Sonic's old "future self" apparently "running so fast he went back in time!!" That was hilarious... I mean, look at his widdle slippers! :3

 

 

But yeah... Time Eater. Does stuff with Time. Brings back Crisis City. i'm fine with that.  I also think that since Silver is an obvious reference to Trunks, that his future is written with the same rules as nice and polite Future Trunks' was; basically when someone comes back in time and changes stuff they create a new timeline separate from their own. Trunks' world is still destroyed by Cell, and he is seen going forward to his own timeline to kill Imperfect Cell. Just as Silver is seen going forward in time to destroy Iblis. It doesn't matter that Elise erased the whole timeline in her world.

Edited March 11, 2013 by MamboCat

[The Conductor]

Here's one that always bothered me from Sonic 06 (and that game is full of plot inconsistencies!). If Elise was given the blue Chaos Emerald by Silver in the past, it means that one Chaos Emerald was missing throughout the entire series! So how did Sonic 1, 2, 3, S&K, SA1, SA2, Sonic Heroes etc. ever happen then? O_o

No.

 

The Blue Emerald does whatever it does in all the games and then ends up in White Acropolis.

Silver finds it, and takes it back in time and give it to the young Elise.

Ten years later, Elise gives the emerald to Sonic who takes it to Dr. Eggman who uses it to power his time machine to zap Sonic, Tails and Knuckles away to the future.

It STAYS in the time machine till Mephilies draws all the emeralds together at the end.

 

There is no emerald plothole. 

[JezMM]

No.

 

The Blue Emerald does whatever it does in all the games and then ends up in White Acropolis.

Silver finds it, and takes it back in time and give it to the young Elise.

Ten years later, Elise gives the emerald to Sonic who takes it to Dr. Eggman who uses it to power his time machine to zap Sonic, Tails and Knuckles away to the future.

It STAYS in the time machine till Mephilies draws all the emeralds together at the end.

 

There is no emerald plothole. 

 

While it's not a plothole and this does make sense, there's still something odd about the fact that, for Elise's childhood and teenage years, two blue emeralds have existed in the game world without Elise's ever being discovered.

 

Not anymore of course, but in the pre-erased timeline they did.