Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

*Sighs*

When did I imply or say that I thought Flynn was as bad as Penders? I said the opposite; The current comic is a big step above Penders' and Bollers' crap. All I said was that I believe that it's nowhere written as well as it's claimed to be.

There's still silly re-characterizations and ass-pull retcons of character's histories, still blatant favoritism and glorifying of certain characters (Look no further than Sally) and still large issues with the way characters are portrayed.

Oh there's definitely flaws in the current writing; nothing's truly perfect. At the same time it's trying to piggy-back of the same elements from the previous writers and their flaws, while trying to blend in everything from the cartoons and the games, while trying to balance between the two. Yeah, that's Flaw Central all over that. And yeah, the favoritism towards Sally is obvious, but at the same time I find it unique because - with her being a robot slave for Eggman - it's shaking the status quo and making things more interesting than it was in the past, or at the very least becoming less formulaic as it tries to come up with newer material - that may or may not entirely be the case, but there's always a good with the bad. I won't try defend the bad parts too much, but I do understand the details that led to it.

 

But from the way I see it, Archie does a lot of what those at Sonic Team themselves aren't doing with it's characters as far as the game cast goes, which is probably a big reason why some find it much better in its writing. It isn't putting any of the game characters on a pedestal like some fans think it should be with certain characters (Tails, Amy, and Knuckles) - although one could say that's because Sally's the one on the pedestal instead - as well as making more diverse use of the other characters that hardly do shit in the games like that with Big and Cream and making said characters far more active, and it tries not to sideline these characters over each other when it can help it. It gives each character different motivations for being involved instead of them acting them all like a collective mind with the same desires and goals, while using those differing motivations to create unique and (to some such as myself) interesting conflicts throughout it's plots as well as having those differing motivations continue despite the goals being similar. Every character is an individual, and that individuality will lead to more organic conflicts, alliances, and resolutions throughout the narrative, which is a lot compared to what Sonic Team has done with them nowadays.

 

Now much of this did come at a cost, regardless of who was behind the writing: Sonic isn't as mobile as he is in the games, some arcs were forced like that with Sonic vs Tails, and some of it was rushed and changed at the last second like that of Endangered Species, as well as leading to a bunch of original characters that lead to an imbalance that could risk some major characters getting sidelined like what Penders tried to do in his run. 

 

But say what you will about how Penders was doing with all the echidna's and plots he created, he gave Knuckles a HELL of a lot more development than Game!Knux could throw a pebble at (although he went much too far as his run kept going and led to the lawsuit many of us are ticked off over); say what you will about the different characterizations, but some find them far more enjoyable than their game counterparts (Yes, this was written a year ago, but it's still worth noting) - personally speaking, it says a lot that I hate Big in the games but flat out LOVE him in the comics; and even more, Archie delivers a lot more fanservice that many of us wish Sega would do more of.

 

I'm not going to change your mind over your thoughts of Archie comic, but I am going to enlighten much of what people probably find better than the Games.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Dr. Crusher]

I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this in the topic (knowing me, I probably have), but in case I haven't, here's one that I may regret elaborating on as an Egg-Fan: I don't place SA2!Robotnik on quite as high a pedestal as others do... and my reasons for it are admittedly both skewed and full of the usual mindless fanboyism.

 

Now don't get me wrong, Robotnik himself was actually completely fine. He was dealing plenty of damage on the battlefield, bombing Prison Island, firing the Eclipse Cannon, turning the fake emerald trick on it's head, and all that good stuff, all the while scratching his arse and shaking his arms around like a Gustav Frohlich character. He was the same Robotnik I've always known and loved.

 

However, there are a few things that bother a petty person such as myself.

 

First, the minor one: the lack of machines and Badniks. The former is obviously due to the fact that he's playable in the game, and as such he wouldn't be able to have much of a coherent playstyle if he had various machines... but like Dr. Wily, giant killtastic robots are one of the things that I feel make Robotnik (just like how hijacking other villains and annoying fans as a result of it is what makes Ganondorf), and seeing him with only a little Egg Walker - even though that was certainly a good mech - feels a bit... weak, to me. As for the Badniks, they only appeared in the Pyramid Base levels in an otherwise G.U.N-infested game. Again, this bothers me needlessly since I'm used to him having limitless armies of robots, all spammed across the planet. It's like Robotnik's on a budget in this one game or something. (Maybe that's why he would later found Robotnik Corp and MeteorTech Inc...)

 

But there's another, slighter bigger deal... Yeah. That one. The whole Shadow/Gerald deal.

 

So the end of the game makes it clear that Shadow was actually playing Robotnik like a fiddle from the very beginning, in a bid to fulfill Gerald's scheme. This is actually slightly more painful for me than a typical giant monster betrayal scenario like in SA1, because as bad as those are, at least he's in full control for a good majority of the game (unless it's '06, in which case he didn't even get that far in regards to Iblis). Whereas here, it's sort of like an early version of what Nega would later do. So as much as the Eggman does all these cool things in the game, and as much as he comes this close to winning... I'm always remembering the fact that he wouldn't win after all. It would be Shadow and Gerald that win, since it would be their plan that ended up transpiring. And so, childish as it may sound, that sort of affects my biased views quite a bit.

 

Oh, and the backstory. I know this will sound blasphemous from an Eggman fan, but the whole deal with Ivo and Gerald just does not sit well with me at all, to the point that I have the incredibly tragic (and dare I say fanwriter-ish) habit of slightly twisting the truth a bit and making up my own nonsense headcanon. Well, at least I'm honest, right?

 

While we're at it, I have another Doc Egg confession that I've brought up now and then: I do not like Sonic X's Robotnik one bit (both the anime and the comic).

 

So it's clear by now that I'm one of those shallow prats who think Robotnik's at his best when he's a total dick. That's not to say I don't enjoy other kinds of villains (I love Mr. Freeze in Batman: The Animated Series, I like the Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd relationship between Mario and Bowser, and even within the Sonic series itself, I did enjoy Merlina despite not caring for the game she appeared in), I just personally think Robotnik's one of those antagonists who work best as a Bastard with a capital B. (He even looks a bit like the Coachman, giant grin and all...) So with that knowledge in mind... well, you can probably tell right away why I don't exactly find X's Robotnik that appealing to my interests, what with barely even reaching Anti-Villain levels than he does Anti-Hero levels. Admittedly he was actually alright in Season 1 when it was just "Ah need a mecha ta clobba dat dere SAWNIK!", but by the time Season 2 and especially Season 3 roll around, it's all gone to shit. I'll never forget the Dark Super Sonic/Black Narcissus event, no matter how desperately I want to. This may be one of the reasons why I don't mind Season 1 as much as the other two despite also having the most volumes of Thorndykian horrors.

 

Then there's the comic, which is even more prone to making me frown. Sure, you had some good bits like the Perfect Chaos... uh, thing here and there, but overall... I won't lie when I say there's a guilty feeling inside me when I consider myself one of the most rabid Eggman fans, yet absolutely despise the whole El Gran Gordo fiasco.

 

(By the way, if you're wondering why I dislike SatAM!Robotnik despite these revelations, it's because I feel Julian was too blatant and (ironically) over-the-top about it. In my own delusional mindset, Robotnik's one of those templar-types who genuinely believes he's the hero/paragon/whatever, yet everything he does is callous and cruel... you know, that sort of thing.)

[Kuzu]

Can I just say that I don't get the current praise for how Eggman is the "best written" character in the current games? I understand that he has the best dialogue, but in terms of everything else, he's just as shoddily written as every other character.

 

To illustrate; He starts Unleashed off magnificently, out gambits Sonic and then shoots his ass out of an airlock. This moment is what made me love Eggman all over again, how in control of the situation he was and he how pulled it off and then gloated about it to Sonic's face, which legitimately pissed him off. However, this moment is some mitigated when its pointed out how Eggman shot Sonic out along with the chaos emeralds, ya know the things that could potentially stop him. What's worse is that the game knows he fucked up as he tries to save face in front of Orbot. How can someone who came up with a brilliant plan have such an oversight? It makes no sense to me. Then he spends the majority of the game not doing anything of note aside from send robots for Sonic to destroy and makes no further attempt at stopping him, or even stealing back the Chaos Emeralds. It just severely undermines what was an amazing opening with him.

 

Sonic Colors, his terribad attempt at turning good. We all knew he actually wasn't turning good, but in-game it  was especially obvious as even Sonic was able to point it out. So then I ask, what was the point of putting up the front? Especially when the plan was outed in the first cutscene where we see Orbot & Cubot trying to capture Wisp. So when he does reveal his plan of using mind control to take over, its pretty shocking because he's gotten control of Tails. Eggman is in control, pulling the strings of Sonic & Tails. Then the ray just.....stops working. Yea, why would he make a mind control ray with a finite source? 

 

Sonic Generations....he doesn't do shit, period.

 

 

I understand everyone has their own preferences for the doc, but after being pointed out to everything he did wrong in the above games. I have a hard time believing how he's the "best written" character. Hell, despite what I may like about Sonic with the current writing, I'll be the first to admit that he's written pretty bad too.

[Your Vest Friend]

I suppose most people find him the most interesting character at the moment, as opposed to necessarily best written. I can't blame them, even though I'd still be inclined to disagree.

[Tani Coyote]

I personally always chalked it to Eggman being great at plans, but sometimes omitting small details. In the case of the emeralds we see Eggman realising just after he's ejected Sonic from his fleet that the emeralds went with him and the dismay it brings him.

 

As a child, my mother always told me that many autistic children like myself were often brilliant in some academic field, but that we lacked common sense. I would say this sort of logic governs Eggman: it's no secret he's extremely brilliant, but the obvious mistake always rears its ugly head.

 

What's worse is Eggman's a child inside and doesn't take well to any sort of criticism. If he had Orbot or some other aid act as a professional critic or "bully" of his plans to point out their flaws, he'd be incredibly dangerous.

 

Ultimately it comes down to the same childish immaturity: Eggman thinks his plans are so flawless he doesn't bother examining them. Or even creating someone who could do that for him; every piece of legitimate advice (snarky as it is) that Orbot gave him, Eggman was furious.

 

It also explains why he doesn't have much in the way of backup plans. He sets a goal, he arranges everything in pursuit of that one goal... but doesn't factor in the chance of failure. At all. In the case of Unleashed, it wasn't a real "failure," as going on the run from Sonic at the start was all part of his plan; he even pretended to be surprised at the Emeralds' appearance.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[Diogenes]

How can someone who came up with a brilliant plan have such an oversight? It makes no sense to me.

He's not just brilliant, he's also mad. That's kind of his big flaw; he lets his emotions and his posturing get the better of him, and he ends up doing things that bite him in the ass. That doesn't make him poorly written; in fact I'd argue it makes him better written than most of the cast.

Yea, why would he make a mind control ray with a finite source?

Most things are finite...I mean, it's a total cocktease of a scene, to be sure, but complaining that he didn't have infinite energy is a silly way to look at it. 

I understand everyone has their own preferences for the doc, but after being pointed out to everything he did wrong in the above games. I have a hard time believing how he's the "best written" character.

Who would you say is written better? Even if all he's got going for him is good dialogue, that seems like more than any other character.

[Celestia]

In that one particular cutscene, I thought the implication was that it was simply a portable (and therefore greatly inferior) version of the mind control cannon that would have been a lot more long lasting. Or, at least, it'd last long enough for him to take over without any opposition for a few weeks/months, which would probably be long enough for him.

[Tani Coyote]

Or, at least, it'd last long enough for him to take over without any opposition for a few weeks/months, which would probably be long enough for him.

 

He should really, really just pull a Sonic the Comic and shoot them far into the future if he really wants to take over. It'd be far simpler than half the convoluted stuff he does.

 

Yes he did that in 06 but that runs into a predestination paradox because we have to assume the future is screwed anyhow or Elise bawled right after Eggman sent them into the future.

 

I'd like a "send them into the future" plan that's home brewed and not related to any gods or anything, if possible. To demonstrate his wits he should be sure to shoot the emeralds into the Sun or something specifically to keep them from ever coming back.

 

But ahem, enough wishful thinking. He can continue to go through his excessively-complex plans when it'd just be easier to do one thing or another to the hero, as all evil geniuses do.

[Kuzu]

He's not just brilliant, he's also mad. That's kind of his big flaw; he lets his emotions and his posturing get the better of him, and he ends up doing things that bite him in the ass. That doesn't make him poorly written; in fact I'd argue it makes him better written than most of the cast.

It makes him poorly written because its the reason he lost. When your main villain does something incompetent, it makes the plot a lot weaker. I know Eggman's flaw is his emotions but that didn't stop him carrying through with the rest of his plan, or his previous ones. Whenever he lost, it was because Sonic beat him instead of doing something stupid. Its one thing to be done in by forces you couldn't possibly see coming, its another thing to be done in because you lacked foresight.

 

 

 

Most things are finite...I mean, it's a total cocktease of a scene, to be sure, but complaining that he didn't have infinite energy is a silly way to look at it. 

Ok, I'll give you that but since it was established in that scene that the mind control ray isn't permanent, it begs the question in how he would have been able to sustain brainwashing the planet if its a limited source.

 

 

Who would you say is written better? Even if all he's got going for him is good dialogue, that seems like more than any other character.

 

 

 

If I praised a character for one or two aspects that I liked, then I can easily say Sonic is the best written character and I'm pretty sure a lot of people would contest that. At this point, its a personal bias most people have and its one I don't agree with.

[Tani Coyote]

It makes him poorly written because its the reason he lost. When your main villain does something incompetent, it makes the plot a lot weaker. I know Eggman's flaw is his emotions but that didn't stop him carrying through with the rest of his plan, or his previous ones. Whenever he lost, it was because Sonic beat him instead of doing something stupid. Its one thing to be done in by forces you couldn't possibly see coming, its another thing to be done in because you lacked foresight.

 

I think this also explains why Sonic treats Eggman more like a playmate than an enemy, overall. Barring some egregious evils such as cracking the Earth open or brainwashing Tails, Sonic has never really gotten mad at him. He has no reason to; Eggman's demonstrated he's not a threat so much as a guy with a lot of toys who sometimes puts acid in the watergun he's squirting.

 

Saying Archie's Eggman is more menacing would be an understatement; Sonic hasn't treated him like a playmate, so much as an evil genius he can have some fun foiling continually.

[Kuzu]

I think this also explains why Sonic treats Eggman more like a playmate than an enemy, overall. Barring some egregious evils such as cracking the Earth open or brainwashing Tails, Sonic has never really gotten mad at him. He has no reason to; Eggman's demonstrated he's not a threat so much as a guy with a lot of toys who sometimes puts acid in the watergun he's squirting.

 

Saying Archie's Eggman is more menacing would be an understatement; Sonic hasn't treated him like a playmate, so much as an evil genius he can have some fun foiling continually.

 

Exactly. Sonic treats Eggman like a joke because he is, yea Eggman may get the upper hand now and then but he is mostly done in by his own incompetence. 

 

This is why I will always prefer SA2 Eggman(and to an extent SA1) above any interpretation as far as the games are concerned; yea sure, he was patsy for another villain but that doesn't change the fact that he put Sonic through the ringer; he was always one step ahead of him, and nearly came close to killing him. Even Sonic commended the doctor for his effort.

 

Archie Eggman is basically current Eggman's personality, but with all of the competence of his Adventure incarnation, which makes him the best version of the doc there is.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Tani Coyote]

Exactly. Sonic treats Eggman like a joke because he is, yea Eggman may get the upper hand now and then but he is mostly done in by his own incompetence. 

 

Archie Eggman is basically current Eggman's personality, but with all of the competence of his Adventure incarnation, which makes him the best version of the doc there is.

 

Really the easiest way to summarise the difference is this: in the Archieverse, fun with Eggman is a means to an end; in the SEGAverse, fun with Eggman is the end in and of itself. Which probably explains why you only really see Sonic's emotions when Eggman actually catches him off guard; he has no reason to treat him with any shred of respect.

 

Eggman should just be glad Sonic has yet to just completely laugh at his threats entirely, as has happened to the likes of Neo Cortex before. Eventually one sinks so low you won't be taken seriously at all.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[Diogenes]

It makes him poorly written because its the reason he lost. When your main villain does something incompetent, it makes the plot a lot weaker. I know Eggman's flaw is his emotions but that didn't stop him carrying through with the rest of his plan, or his previous ones. Whenever he lost, it was because Sonic beat him instead of doing something stupid. Its one thing to be done in by forces you couldn't possibly see coming, its another thing to be done in because you lacked foresight.

If Eggman's loss is almost completely independent of Sonic's actions, the way it was in Colors, then it's pretty dumb. But if Eggman's mistakes help give Sonic an advantage necessary to beat him, that's interesting. More interesting than an Eggman that never makes mistakes and loses just because Sonic is stronger. 

Ok, I'll give you that but since it was established in that scene that the mind control ray isn't permanent, it begs the question in how he would have been able to sustain brainwashing the planet if its a limited source.

By having a large enough stock of wisps and energy that they could "recharge" and be drained again before he ran out of energy. Or, the mind control only needed to last long enough for him to enact a more physical takeover, strengthening his army and reducing everyone else's to the point where they couldn't reasonably fight back even once they wanted to.

[Vertekins]

Regarding Eggman, I have no real issues with the way his character is portrayed - He's hilarious, temperamental, fairly competent and a man who shows no semblances whatsoever of entertaining the notion of giving up how matter how humiliating or devastating the defeat, which is perfectly in-line with his established mannerisms. His sheer uncaring apathy towards his wanton environmental/time and space destruction, enslavement of an entire sapient alien race and even the safety of his park attendees is also very much in-line with his selfishness.

 

I do have issues with the way he's utilized in the narrative. Because he's more often shown sitting in his base behind the scenes and/or not getting his hands dirty all that often, his position as a final boss is really affected by his lack of activity because it results in him not being satisfying to take down in light of his lack of particularly visible antics and this is only compounded by the lack of final bosses that are truly extraordinary. Egg Nega Wisp/Armor and the Time Eater don't come even close to fulfilling the role of an 'epic' final boss by merit of being controlled by Eggman because it isn't built up-to in any compelling way.

[Dizcrybe]

Lost World is one of the of the worst levels in Sonic's story in SA1. It's bland, dull, and uninteresting. That water snake can die in a fire, too.

[TwiceStyle]

I don't agree with the people who like SLW so far. I haven't seen anything good from it.

[KHCast]

I don't agree with the people who like SLW so far. I haven't seen anything good from it.

Well, Windy Hill and the Bee Hive music sounds great. 

 

The visuals seem pretty nice, even if your not a fan of the art style.(The Jungle and Casino stage are great examples.)

 

and the Deadly Six(Well at least Zavok) Seem like interesting enemies so far.

 

Also seeing past enemies from throughout the series always brings a smile to my face.

[Celestia]

While I like both the Egg Pawns and the Egg Fighters, I think the Fighter's design is really cool!! I'd love to see them in future games, maybe as elite soldiers compared to the Pawns?

 

wouldn't want to run into this badass unprepared or without boosting, know what i'm sayin'?

Edited July 22, 2013 by ElementofChaos

[Stritix]

It seems that the majority of the fan base take a disliking towards Unleashed HD. I personally find it to be very well crafted. I haven't seen another Sonic game with as much care put into it.

[Jolt_TH]

Just noticed, the Egg pawns look like...well eggs, but the Egg Fighters look like egg cups!

I actually like the Werehog Battle theme...of course that is, I like it as a song listening to it once or twice when i feel like it, not listening to it over and over and over again in 7 minutes :/

[-blank-]

I like the Werehog battle theme too. Yeah, it can get kinda repetive, but it's still pretty catchy.

[Tara]

I love the Werehog battle theme.  I wish I hadn't been played every single time an enemy floats near you, but as a standalone piece, it's pretty fun and zany and suits the atmosphere of beating up night creatures very well.

[Amomynous]

How to make Charmy more like his scatterbrained games' incarnation according to Archie?

 

Don't keep him the way he's always been in the comic. Change him for no compelling reason by giving him what is effectively a brain injury by exposing him to an Egg Grape! I actually know of a few people who have expressed offense to that actually because they perceive it as an insult to real people with brain injuries/mental illnesses as Charmy's condition isn't treated seriously and is regarded with amusement.

 

It annoys me how much Archie made ass-pull explanations for changes when they could have retconned or just not changed, and I find it hard to imagine such an extreme change in characterization could be explained any other way than an ass-pull.

 

I think even trying to explain Sonic's or Amy's change in design (classic to modern) is a little frivolous, but 'they grew up' would be perfectly acceptable, instead; Amy wished on a magic artifact that she be older and Sonic's change in look was explained in something absurd involving the Master Emerald and involved many new forms of Sonic that never appeared again.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Amomynous

[Gaming Misfit]

1.  Lots of characters aren't necessarily a bad idea as long as they serve a purpose and are developed enough.

 

Hell, look at the Sly games.  In Sly 3 Penelope serves literally no purpose outside of being a love interest for Bentley.  When Sanzaru took over for Thieves in Time though, they gave her an actually kind of cool and genuinely surprising role by making her one of the main villains.  Make characters memorable and unique, not lame stereotypes with little to no personality.

 

2.  Eggman appearing in every game is not healthy for him as a villain or for the series.  New villains can be cool if they're done right.  The only problem is they're always so out of place in a Sonic game.  Make more suitable villains who are cool in their own right and it will help keep Eggman fresh whenever he shows up again.

 

3.  Oh and I don't care if Chip was Light Gaia he was still a stupid character in my opinion.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Gaming Misfit

[Semi-colon e]

This one is probably popular, but Unleashed, at it's best, is better than Colours. However, at it's worst, it is much worse. Colours is more consistently, and while it doesn't have the atmospheric appeal or the content or whatever that Unleashed has, it gets by better to me by simply being a better made game with better controls, less cheap level design, and more variety in the levels and no Werehog.