Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Tani Coyote]

7 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I mean how can they top a universe arc though? Be pretty tough I'd figure unless they fight the angels
 

The plot synopsis for the show seems to indicate multiversal travel will be the main theme.

Let's think about it for a moment.

Beerus is where the show starts off. Frieza presumably got shoehorned in for nostalgia (not to mention highlighting one of Beerus' major flaws that drives much of Z's plot). Every other arc besides that touches on multiversal politics.

I assume none or few universes will end up erased in this tournament, and they're going to end up traveling to most of them over the course of the show. It'll be interesting to see how they do it, but I doubt they're giving so much exposition on these characters just to brutally murder them all.

On the other hand, it works for The Walking Dead. We'll see.

[Vec]

Freeza noticed how GoDs are very vulnerable with all this universal survival. I'm sure he'll use it to bargain with Beerus. With what? Their little plan about destroying Planet Vegeta. It'll be troublesome if Vegeta knew the truth. Wouldn't it? Hakkai him on the spot? Pray Zen-Oh doesn't disqualfy you for not having 10 members like he asked.

When this truth is revealed to Vegeta (and maybe Goku too?) it'll Mark the beginning of the end of Super

[-Robin-]

Chris Ayres has been hospitalized and will be undergoing lung surgery. Out of respect, his Facebook post is here under Spoilers.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Funimation has a replacement VA for Freeza, in case the worst happens.

[Tani Coyote]

2 minutes ago, Ice Vec said:

Freeza noticed how GoDs are very vulnerable with all this universal survival. I'm sure he'll use it to bargain with Beerus. With what? Their little plan about destroying Planet Vegeta. It'll be troublesome if Vegeta knew the truth. Wouldn't it? Hakkai him on the spot? Pray Zen-Oh doesn't disqualfy you for not having 10 members like he asked.

When this truth is revealed to Vegeta (and maybe Goku too?) it'll Mark the beginning of the end of Super

On the other hand, the Saiyans seemed to be pretty terrible in their own right. Didn't Goku say to Frieza that they got what they deserved for their evil?

And while Vegeta has his pride, could he disagree with that sentiment? The only reason he's changed is because he lost his direction in life and ended up falling in love with an Earthling. The same way the only reason Goku's not a murderous sociopath is because he bumped his head as a baby. Yes, they may be capable of love and kindness, but their culture was ultimately barbaric and you had to get away from it to be redeemed.

Plus, at the end of the day, Beerus is a God of Destruction. It's his job to wipe out planets and species. I'd be more angry he didn't wipe out Frieza than anything. It's exactly what Goku said - the Saiyans got what they deserved, so why didn't Frieza? Whereas Beerus just destroys things for a living, maybe with a little joy out of it, Frieza is a complete sociopath. Beerus was willing to Hakai Goku if he put the universe in danger, which ultimately places him on the side of good, I'd argue.

If there will be any plot point with Frieza, it will probably be him realizing the Gods and Supreme Kais are linked, and he'll try to hold Shin hostage to make Beerus do his bidding.

[Vec]

Beerus isn't doing a great job as a GoD actually. He just destroys planets whose food didn't satisfied him or because he got annoyed. And when he's not doing that, he's taking a century-long nap or doing food competitions against his brother while Freeza, or back then the Saiyans, did whatever they pleased. He even delegated the destruction of planet Vegeta to Freeza but not because they had it coming but he said because he found them bothersome or something of the sort. I don't think that, as a GoD, delegating your job to a galactic emperor because you want to go to sleep is seen as a good job.

[goku262002]

8 hours ago, -Robin- said:

Chris Ayres has been hospitalized and will be undergoing lung surgery. Out of respect, his Facebook post is here under Spoilers.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Funimation has a replacement VA for Freeza, in case the worst happens.

Who exactly? I don't think they can use Linda Young again.

This is just terrible, I feel bad for Chris and it'll be understandable if he has to retire. Chris was a great Freeza and really made the role his own, I will miss his role as Freeza and I hope he gets better soon.

[Tani Coyote]

6 hours ago, Ice Vec said:

Beerus isn't doing a great job as a GoD actually. He just destroys planets whose food didn't satisfied him or because he got annoyed. And when he's not doing that, he's taking a century-long nap or doing food competitions against his brother while Freeza, or back then the Saiyans, did whatever they pleased. He even delegated the destruction of planet Vegeta to Freeza but not because they had it coming but he said because he found them bothersome or something of the sort. I don't think that, as a GoD, delegating your job to a galactic emperor because you want to go to sleep is seen as a good job.

Well yes, it's no secret he's a crappy God, when you match him up against what the top 4 sort of Gods have going for them. While Beerus destroys because he's angered or because his food isn't tasty enough, someone like Liquir destroys anybody who brings down his Universe's level (or, in other translations, someone who doesn't admit to flaws in plans that could bring down the universe's level, like say, engineers who build faulty bridges that end up killing lots of people).

I mostly just meant it's Beerus' job to provide for healthy growth and renewal of the universe, and the fact he enables an omnicidal tyrant would be a bigger blow against him than the Saiyans being destroyed. The Saiyans were pretty evil from all we can see, and Universe 7 will not miss them. It'd be interesting to see where Universe 6's Saiyans diverged.

[Vec]

Well. In fact, all the universes participating have crappy godsexcept for 11 that actually showed that they cared (and maybe 2? I don't remember much now).

For instance, 9 has an a-hole for a Kai and a dubitative GoD, 3 and 10 seems to be full of muscle heads except for Gowasu who seems to be obsessed with being a GodTuber. 6 has Champa who is too focused in besting his brother to care about his universe while the Kai is a lazy f*k. And while already discussed Beerus, I have to mention that Shin's overly passive approach hasn't helped universe 7. Seems like he was only worried about Majin Buu that when he finally got to see how the universe was, there were only 28 planets with life in it.

[Tani Coyote]

1 minute ago, Ice Vec said:

Well. In fact, all the universes participating have crappy godsexcept for 11 that actually showed that they cared (and maybe 2? I don't remember much now).

For instance, 9 has an a-hole for a Kai and a dubitative GoD, 3 and 10 seems to be full of muscle heads except for Gowasu who seems to be obsessed with being a GodTuber. 6 has Champa who is too focused in besting his brother to care about his universe while the Kai is a lazy f*k.

I think we're seeing a lesson in Aristotelian virtue in these Gods. While many of them could be classed as well-meaning, they wouldn't be virtuous in the Aristotelian meaning of the word; they drift too far towards an extreme and that ultimately harms their role. Virtue comes from moderation of attributes, perhaps with a tilt towards an extreme (e.g. you don't want to be overly cautious or reckless, but somewhere in the middle).

Sidra's indecisive nature harms Universe 9 more than Roh's cruel demeanor, because he could easily rein in anyone who goes too far; it says a lot that when he was finally angered, he erased innocent people as much as evil ones. Helles (2) is more obsessed with beauty than anything else. Belmod (11) is a benevolent God, but I presume he's too nice, destroying evildoers everywhere they go and thus giving his universe little reason to improve; think for a moment: Goku would never have gone Super Saiyan if not for the threat posed by Frieza's evil. As you mentioned, Rumsshi (10) is too focused on power to the detriment of everything else. Moscow and Ea (3) value technology too much. The list basically goes on; I presume Quitela runs a treacherous universe much like Universe 9.

I don't think it's been clarified whether the Mortal Level refers to strength or civilization, but it can overall be concluded that all of the lower Gods have their attributes out of whack in some way. While the Supreme Kais and Gods of Destruction technically work as a team, the GoDs ultimately have the more important role since they can actively intervene and engage in course correction.

1 minute ago, Ice Vec said:

And while already discussed Beerus, I have to mention that Shin's overly passive approach hasn't helped universe 7. Seems like he was only worried about Majin Buu that when he finally got to see how the universe was, there were only 28 planets with life in it.

This in itself is also Beerus' fault. Had he been awake, he could have eliminated Buu right at the start. Shin quite honestly strikes me as a Supreme Kai who would have been last in the line of succession, so he never had any real reason to be trained to take on the duties of the top Kai. Then everything went down and... well, he really had no business running the whole universe.

Beerus faults Shin for not being more active but it seems Supreme Kai's are supposed to take a backseat after creating things. It ultimately falls to Beerus to intervene in mortal affairs and pass judgment on those who the universe harm. I know it was in the movie, but the way Beerus dismissed Frieza's concerns of intervention in preventing Earth's destruction as "I'm a God of Destruction, why would I intervene?" makes me think he doesn't understand the true purpose of the role. They don't destroy for the sake of destroying, but to allow for the prosperity of the universe.

This in itself, I presume, is the consequence of Zen-Oh being fairly apathetic to what goes on below him. The fact Zamasu was able to slaughter all the Kais and Gods in one timeline shows how empty his Give-A-Damn meter really is. He should be regularly reviewing his Gods to make sure they are keeping things in good order.

[Vec]

Oh Yeah Quitella...I forgot him. Maybe because he's close to Pariston in levels of a-holer-y so my mind just skipped him

[Tani Coyote]

20 hours ago, Ice Vec said:

Oh Yeah Quitella...I forgot him. Maybe because he's close to Pariston in levels of a-holer-y so my mind just skipped him

He's a rare exception to the rules regarding the Gods, I think. Most Gods of Destruction are the fire that burns the forest to allow renewal, rather than being evil outright. Quitela's scheming, deceptive nature, however, seems to place him fairly firmly in the evil camp to some extent.

Of course, Sidra seems to also be drifting towards evil, depending on whether we go by actions or intent. While he isn't cackling with glee at slaughtering people, he did destroy the souls of innocent people when he vaporized that city (we can assume Hakai destroys the soul too if used on a living person, based on the "Energy of Destruction" thing). It's a reckless disregard for others that while perhaps not putting him in the same category as full sociopaths like Frieza, makes it harder to class him as amoral versus immoral.

[DiamondX]

Episode 98-101 Leaks:

Spoiler

 

 

[Tani Coyote]

Whelp.

Episode 98's title sure doesn't bode very well, does it?

Who would the Berserker in 100 be by any chance? Perhaps Bergamo? He is called "the Crusher" after all.

Unless the opening credits are a massive lie, it looks like Bergamo and Goku will have a rematch without him using his growth ability.

[DiamondX]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the Berserker is Kale.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Roundup of all the fighters who have been seen in the shadows so far. As it stands, 3 have not yet been introduced.

My presumption would be the fighters who pop up in the credits are the most important.

Upper left:

 

Toei's code indicates there's a fighter from Universe 4 called Damon, who is a cicada. He is presumably the upper left fighter. However, Toei's code isn't 100% reliable (they once confused Bergamo and Lavender) and so take it with a grain of salt.

Middle left:

This fennec guy is probably from Universe 4. Why 4? Because we already know who 9's top fighters are. The fact he's getting credit time would mean he's likely more dangerous than the Trio were. Unless he has some hidden power that would allow him to surpass the Trio during the Tournament, I'd wager he's from 4, as it is the twin universe and so probably has a fair share of canine fighters. The fact he's smiling when all the other characters have serious expressions makes me assume he might be a villain, as well.

Upper right:

...no idea on this one. I thought it might be Ganos (Quitela's spy dude) for a minute, but the hair doesn't match.

Also, it appears we have some screenshots that give us some of the teams. Spoilered for obvious reasons.

Team Universe 11:

 

Team Universe 6 (2 fighters are missing):

 

[Pawn]

4 hours ago, Lord Liquir (Ogilvie) said:

Middle left:

This fennec guy is probably from Universe 4. Why 4? Because we already know who 9's top fighters are. The fact he's getting credit time would mean he's likely more dangerous than the Trio were. Unless he has some hidden power that would allow him to surpass the Trio during the Tournament, I'd wager he's from 4, as it is the twin universe and so probably has a fair share of canine fighters. The fact he's smiling when all the other characters have serious expressions makes me assume he might be a villain, as well.

Team Universe 6 (2 fighters are missing):

  Hide contents

My original assumption with the fennec fox was that he is from Universe 9, but someone the Trio were unwilling to consider because he is a villain.

As for Universe 6; there are two silhouettes behind Hit. One ought to be the guy from U6's Yardrat (seen here). Although I do wonder why they would bother obscuring him? Meanwhile the other guy looks like he could be a Namekian with those pointy ears.... which is a long shot given how many species possess them, but then why hide the guy?

[Tani Coyote]

While we wait, a rough guide to how Beerus could make sure this doesn't happen again:

 

 

26 minutes ago, Pawn said:

My original assumption with the fennec fox was that he is from Universe 9, but someone the Trio were unwilling to consider because he is a villain.

Which is humorous given they are pretty antihero bordering on villain themselves.

He most likely is a bad guy either way, though. Most characters seem fairly grim about the Tournament but he's just "GLEEEE 8D!" Reminds me of Frieza's "can I kill our enemies? >:D" moment honestly.

Quote

As for Universe 6; there are two silhouettes behind Hit. One ought to be the guy from U6's Yardrat (seen here). Although I do wonder why they would bother obscuring him? Meanwhile the other guy looks like he could be a Namekian with those pointy ears.... which is a long shot given how many species possess them, but then why hide the guy?

Probably for the same reason every character everywhere wears that same exact dark cloak to obscure their identity.

I understand they wanna save some surprises for the actual Tournament but come on. It reeks of either plot convenience or laziness on the part of the animators.

[Tani Coyote]

In light of the fact so many posts are spoiler tag heavy to begin with (something pointed out by other posters here as well as myself), I have consulted with fellow staff and it has been agreed that this thread should be an untagged spoilers thread from here on out. The thread title has been changed accordingly.

That in mind, from now on, one browses this thread at their own risk of being spoiled on plot developments. I am making this post to give everyone a formal announcement and warning of the change.

Happy open discussion, everyone!

[DiamondX]

Well, no more spoiler tags then.

 

What do you guys think about the episode 99 title?

Will Krillin get a transformation or is it just him being stronger than before?

[Tani Coyote]

New transformations are being handed out like candy, so I wouldn't be surprised if Super breaks from the prior series by establishing humans can get transformations as well. If someone as old as Roshi can beef himself up, it doesn't seem outlandish that an Earthling might be able to train and unlock a new level of power.

In a world where some characters can learn abilities just by seeing them, it's reasonable a human could find a way to achieve a new status.

Sure, it cheapens the Super Saiyan idea, but it's already become almost as cheap as a Keyblade in Kingdom Hearts with how many people have it.

[Marcello]

11 minutes ago, DiamondX said:

What do you guys think about the episode 99 title?

Will Krillin get a transformation or is it just him being stronger than before?

 

Some parts of the episode have already leaked:

[Pawn]

I don't think it'll be a new transformation, but him using that new ability he showcased in his mini-arc. Remember that this tournament is about more than raw power.

Super's actually been pretty conservative as far as transformations go (outside of the original golden-haired Super Saiyan, but that's been the case since the Buu saga).

EDIT: Little preview for @Lord Liquir (Ogilvie)

[8ther]

Welp, we may now know all their names currently but we now know what all of the fighters outside U7 looks like..

U2

U3

U4

U6

U9

U10

U11

 

 

[Tani Coyote]

So the Fennec is from Universe 4. I thought they were male, but the choice of clothes is throwing me off. Guess we'll have to see... or at least wait for a name reveal, which I'm sure Toei will drop soon. It'd be weird not to given they're in the intro credits, unlike pretty much all the fighters introduced this episode (that is, the others are likely cannon fodder and will die very quickly).

Also, have some Liquir gifs:

 

Mess with the Fox Guy, you get the Ha Kai.

When you regret all your choices up to this point.

 

I'm pretty sure Liquir is what happens when you put Sonic's personality in Tails' body. He's so full of himself and it's wonderful.

Arak seems like the most chill God of Destruction, based on how he only reluctantly agreed to fight. It's consistent with his personality; apparently he only destroys things after a great deal of consideration.

I'm getting the impression Gene is the most powerful God of Destruction (though he could just be full of himself). That said, I think Liquir could surpass him; he seems to have a youthful, reckless personality that indicates a lack of experience (unsure if they're following the kitsune rules as well, but given he has only 3 tails as opposed to 9, he's probably very young by God of Destruction standards). The surge of energy he uses to finish up rebuilding the arena leads me to think he probably has enormous energy reserves but isn't as skilled in using them as some of the other Gods.

Also, the Grand Priest will always remain probably one of my favorite lovable jerks. He's so polite and nonchalant no matter what dickish thing is coming out of his mouth.

[Meta77]

Universe 11 is the main threat lord am I ready to see them fight.  get lost