Metroid Topic

[Marcello]

To actually answer the question, I believe the Prime games aren't canon since Other M. Not that it really matters, as they were made in a way that they don't affect the canon.

[ChaosXVI]

The only game that prevents the Prime Trilogy from being canon is Other M, so...Other M can suck it instead, and I'll go ahead and keep my previous conception of the timeline, which is Metroid, Prime, Hunters (I guess...), Echoes, Corruption, RoS, Super, Fusion.

[Thigolf]

Other M's story, characterization etc. was way too off in comparison to every other game in the series to be canon.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Word of God says the Metroid Prime trilogy never happened as of Other M. Since God has proven himself a mysoginistic hack of a writer, I'll happily convert to Retro Studioism.

[Yoko/葉子]

http://metroid.retropixel.net/comics/metroidmanga/ found a scanlation of the 2004 Manga which came about when Zero Mission did, it shows parts of ZM in the last 3 chapters and Samus even says "why doesn't the Plasma Beam work?" fighting Ridley.

[Mangoaxe5]

Looking back it's funny how much people love the Metroid Prime games over Other M.

When Metroid Prime was first announced everyone was bashing the very idea of a 1st person Metroid game and giving Retro Studios a lot of crap, now everyone pretty much loves Retro Studios work on Metroid.

[Old dead account]

There's people who legitamately do not like Prime because of so much forced backtracking and key hunts which I can agree with to an extent but they barely put a debt in my enjoyment of the game. But most Prime bashing seems to be just people saying that the Primes are nothing but shitty Halo ripoffs which just goes to show how stupid a lot of people are fucking stupid and how they never played the games.

Is the only reason the Primes are de-canonized because of when she say "It was the first joint mission I've been a part of since becoming a freelance bounty hunter"? Or is there something else.

[Diogenes]

Looking back it's funny how much people love the Metroid Prime games over Other M.

When Metroid Prime was first announced everyone was bashing the very idea of a 1st person Metroid game and giving Retro Studios a lot of crap, now everyone pretty much loves Retro Studios work on Metroid.

Well, Retro basically did the impossible. The 2D to 3D transition is one of the toughest obstacles a series can face, and turning a well-established sidescroller into an FPS of all things made it even more dangerous. But they made it work; the gameplay is genuinely "Metroid" and very good to boot.

On the other hand M:OM fucked up basically everything there is to fuck up.

[ChaosXVI]

There's people who legitamately do not like Prime because of so much forced backtracking and key hunts which I can agree with to an extent but they barely put a debt in my enjoyment of the game. But most Prime bashing seems to be just people saying that the Primes are nothing but shitty Halo ripoffs which just goes to show how stupid a lot of people are fucking stupid and how they never played the games.

Is the only reason the Primes are de-canonized because of when she say "It was the first joint mission I've been a part of since becoming a freelance bounty hunter"? Or is there something else.

While that line is a big issue, there's also the simple fact that the Prime games are never once even casually referenced. Then there was the issue of the Space Pirates being called "Zebesians" which was previously thought to be non-canon translation error. i.e. Mobius within Sonic. Saying the Space Pirates home planet is Zebes somewhat invalidates Prime 3 since a planet was called 'Pirate Homeworld". But one could argue that the planet was home to that particular species of Space Pirate, hence why they look so different from the Pirates of Prime 1 and 2. If Samus takes trauma so hard, and gets nostalgic about it so much, why not express some sadness about being forced to kill the 3 Hunters from Corruption...

[Emmett L. Brown]

I'm not sure the Prime games are the only part that Other M tries to de-canonise. Count the number of references to the Chozo in Other M. That's right. There's zero. Technically, there's the Samus's Power Suit, which is Chozo technology, but the game never references that point. If you played Other M without having played any of the others, you'd assume Samus was adopted into the Federation as a child and that her suit is some kind of Federation super-prototype armour.

There's also "Adam was the only father figure I'd ever known" Oh, really, Samus? So the Chozo pair you drew on the mural wall in Zero Mission didn't mean anything to you? The ones who trained you, altered your physiology, developed the technology of the suit you wear every day didn't spark any paternal feelings whatsoever? No, I call bullshit on that. I know plenty of people who were adopted as infants and the bond between them and their adoptive parents is as strong as any tie of blood.

Clark Kent's dad is Johnathan Kent, not Jor-El, and Samus was raised by people with beaks.

[Semi-colon e]

I just say the Bottle Ship thing happened, such as in that Nightmare was there and Ridley died, and Adam died, all the stuff that ties in to Fusion, only in my mind it's less retarded because fan wank. The Prime games always happened for me because I started with Prime 1, but there is a definite disconnect between the Prime series and the "Classic" series. Other M is just... why. I just can't let the Prime games go in terms of canon, and I doubt I could even if Other M had de-canonised them while being a great game. Which it isn't.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[ChaosXVI]

Yeah the lack of any reference to the Chozo bugged me a lot as well. I thought perhaps at the time that they didn't want to write anything about the Chozo that would conflict with the Prime Trilogy since they had to be aware that Retro really fleshed them out. But then just before Other M released they just went ahead and de-canonized them anyway.

[VO.SUPER]

Sakamoto is so inconsistent that he forgets his own part in the mythology. He really should be taken off the story team for the next title, because from what I've read in an interview about Other M, he really liked it, and didn't take well to criticism against it.

[Old dead account]

I also started with Prime 1, came bundled with my Gamecube alongside Windwaker. Prime 1 is connected to Zero Mission in that first Lore scan in the Pirate Frigate referencing their defeat on Zebes, although I don't think it references Mother Brain, then there's also how they talk about reconstructing Ridley after his defeat on Zebes. The mystery to me is how he survived his defeat in the Leviathan seed and then return as a whole organic being in Super Metroid without having been cloned. This makes the classic Zero Mission tied to both Prime and the main Metroid series. I also don't think it's fair to say that something isn't canon just because it was never refernced. If memory serves, the adventure games were never mentioned in Unleashed so does that make them non-canon (at the time)?

[Salamander]

Other M was such a PR disaster that I imagine that in any future Metroid games it will experience the same fate that it tried to deal out to the Prime games - implicit decanonisation by being completely ignored. Of course, that's if it hasn't killed the series... or if Sakamoto doesn't continue to pursue the Other M version of canon out of something like spite... Personally, I guess I'll just hope that GBA and SNES games one day reach the 3DS eShop.

[Blue Wisp]

it will experience the same fate that it tried to deal out to the Prime games - implicit decanonisation by being completely ignored.

Are you saying that the Prime games were implied to be non-canon by being completely ignored?

The Prime games are the top games from the Metroid saga.

[VO.SUPER]

You know something... I just read an article about Metroid Fusion's story which really talked about how Sakamoto might have wanted to diminish the Metroid Prime Trilogy's impact by changing many story details in Fusion that would impact Metroid Prime's story.

Hello. I’ve just been reading your posts on Metroid: Other M. Excellent reading material, but there’s a couple of things that caught my eye in particular.

You mentioned that Metroid Zero Mission might have been created so that Sakamoto could re-define the game on his own terms (i.e. easier game, more focus on Samus Aran’s character, etc) and that Sakamoto was disdainful of

the Metroid Prime Trilogy, since had little involvement with it. Well, Sakamoto might have actually taken steps to diminish the Prime trilogy’s impact on the Metroid universe.

Let me explain. When Metroid Prime was originally released in North America, it was effectively stated that the final boss, Metroid Prime, came to Tallon IV in the meteorite that struck the planet. It looks very likely that Retro were originally planning to tie the Metroids’ origin to the sentient planet Phaaze (which appears at the end of Prime 3). This would not only have given the Metroids a much more epic and sinister origin, but it would have made the Prime trilogy an important part of the series, if not a direct continuation of the original Metroid games.

But when Sakamoto released Metroid Fusion (around the same time as Prime was released), he snuck in an extra plot detail in the instruction manual; the Chozo created the Metroids themselves to combat the X-Parasite. This point was never revealed in the game, was never an important part of Fusion’s plot, and so naturally, Retro had no idea of this development until Fusion’s release. And when they did discover it, they were forced to rewrite Prime’s plot for the international release (and all versions of Metroid Prime Trilogy) in order to avoid continuity issues with Fusion. The rewritten script no longer references Metroid Prime arriving in the meteorite, and I presume it’s now supposed to come from the Tallon IV Chozo.

So now the Metroid Prime Trilogy has a less important “sub-series” status within the Metroid series storyline, and it’s all thanks to Sakamoto. Co-incidence? Possibly…

It's really far fetched, but considering Sakamoto completely unacknowledged Prime to the point where he wrote, "It was the first joint mission I've been a part of since becoming a freelance bounty hunter" It might not be too far-fetched.

Bah, it's just like what happened with Sega of Japan and America, the Japanese are way to stubborn with letting people who aren't Japanese handle their stories. It's a load of shit.

[Blue Wisp]

So wait, Sakamoto is to blame for the lack of "storyline popularity" of Metroid Prime because he wasn't involved with Prime's storyline?

That was... Rather dickish from him actually

[Diogenes]

You know something... I just read an article about Metroid Fusion's story which really talked about how Sakamoto might have wanted to diminish the Metroid Prime Trilogy's impact by changing many story details in Fusion that would impact Metroid Prime's story.

I don't buy it.

It looks very likely that Retro were originally planning to tie the Metroids’ origin to the sentient planet Phaaze (which appears at the end of Prime 3). This would not only have given the Metroids a much more epic and sinister origin

How is this supposed to be "epic and sinister"? The aliens are from...a different alien planet! Woo~

But when Sakamoto released Metroid Fusion (around the same time as Prime was released), he snuck in an extra plot detail in the instruction manual; the Chozo created the Metroids themselves to combat the X-Parasite. This point was never revealed in the game, was never an important part of Fusion’s plot,

I dunno, it's kind of important as to the game making any sense in the first place. Without it, why does the Metroid vaccine do anything at all? What do the space jellyfish have to do with the space jelly?

And when they did discover it, they were forced to rewrite Prime’s plot for the international release (and all versions of Metroid Prime Trilogy) in order to avoid continuity issues with Fusion. The rewritten script no longer references Metroid Prime arriving in the meteorite, and I presume it’s now supposed to come from the Tallon IV Chozo.

This had problems on its own, no reason to bring Fusion or Sakamoto into it. The core of the meteor was supposed to be impenetrable after the Chozo sealed it (which is why you need the artifacts, and why the pirates haven't already tapped into that sweet, sweet phazon), but the scan says something to the effect of Prime getting out, ending up in Pirate hands, integrating Pirate tech, and then getting back into the meteor. It's the biggest failing of Prime's otherwise pretty well-handled story.

[VO.SUPER]

Yeah, you bring up good points Dio, and you make a lot of sense. I'm just letting my distaste against Sakamoto get the better of my sense of judgement.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Talking about the connections between Prime and the other games does remind me of one thing I thought was silly about the Prime Trilogy. Here's the deal: Prime 1-3 take place before Metroid 2: The Return of Samus wherein Samus singlehandedly causes the extinction of the Metroid species.

The problem is that by the time Samus arrives on SR388, the galaxy is jam-packed with Metroids. There's Metroids on Tallon IV, Aether, Elysia, the Space Pirate Homeworld, and the GFS Valhalla - hell, the Valhalla is surrounded by a freakin' cloud of Metroids. In addition to all that, it's established that the Space Pirates bring Metroids with them when they establish outposts.

I've been gushing about Retro Studios' work continuously in this thread, but I gotta criticise them for over-saturating the galaxy with Metroids, even though I prefer that approach compared to rendering the title creature extinct in every new game.

[Kuzu]

To be fair, some of those are different variations of Metroid.

[Marcello]

A lot of people want Sakamoto off of Metroid, but I don't.. Sure, he messed up with Other M, but he also brought me Super Metroid, Fusion and the other great entries of the series.

[Kuzu]

At the very least leave the story to someone else. I'm actually kind of amazed at how surprised he was at how negative Other: M's story was, like it never occurred to him how people would react to such a different characterization of Samus.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Marcello]

I'd be happy with a joint effort. He can be part of the story, but have someone else there with him to help.

Though I was happy with the story and Samus' characterization in Fusion.