Metroid Topic

[Diogenes]

Though frankly I find a Samus that suffers from PTSD upon coming face to face with the creature that killed her parents in front of her, which she was sure she had finally killed for good, far more interesting than generic badass Samus who just does everything while saying nothing.

I've got no problem with Samus being a deeper character than Ms. Badass McShootsalot, but Other M just did a really terrible job of it. She wasn't someone who was strong but still had issues to overcome (which would both be interesting and make sense given how she canonically tears her way through hordes of alien soldiers), but she's basically repeatedly made useless and subservient. It doesn't make sense given her actions and characterization elsewhere and it doesn't make for an interesting and likable character.

Other M aside, I'm curious as to what they'll do with a game set post-Fusion (if...they ever actually make one). I think it'd be interesting, though risky, to actually work Metroids, the creatures, out of the series. Fusion gave Samus Metroid DNA, and I forget exactly where this comes from but supposedly "Metroid" is Chozo for "ultimate warrior", or something like that. So you could plausibly shift the meaning of the series' name from the energy-sucking space jellies to Samus herself; she's the Metroid, the ultimate warrior. Plus, even though this isn't the most prolific of series, we've already had plenty of "okay you've eliminated all the Metroids, oh wait there's more, oh wait now you killed them all, but aha we've been breeding more oh you killed them too but we're breeding them agai-oh you blew them up". And, they don't need to eliminate Metroids entirely, just give them a break, find a way to make the series work without them being a necessary component of every game.

[VO.SUPER]

You know, I'd actually like to see a Metroid game that adapts the Metroid manga, because in that manga I could understand Samus being a little different from the one we got used to in the later games. I could understand if Samus was subservient as long as she got over that, it is her first adventure after all.

[Tails spin]

I've got no problem with Samus being a deeper character than Ms. Badass McShootsalot, but Other M just did a really terrible job of it. She wasn't someone who was strong but still had issues to overcome (which would both be interesting and make sense given how she canonically tears her way through hordes of alien soldiers), but she's basically repeatedly made useless and subservient. It doesn't make sense given her actions and characterization elsewhere and it doesn't make for an interesting and likable character.

Other M aside, I'm curious as to what they'll do with a game set post-Fusion (if...they ever actually make one). I think it'd be interesting, though risky, to actually work Metroids, the creatures, out of the series. Fusion gave Samus Metroid DNA, and I forget exactly where this comes from but supposedly "Metroid" is Chozo for "ultimate warrior", or something like that. So you could plausibly shift the meaning of the series' name from the energy-sucking space jellies to Samus herself; she's the Metroid, the ultimate warrior. Plus, even though this isn't the most prolific of series, we've already had plenty of "okay you've eliminated all the Metroids, oh wait there's more, oh wait now you killed them all, but aha we've been breeding more oh you killed them too but we're breeding them agai-oh you blew them up". And, they don't need to eliminate Metroids entirely, just give them a break, find a way to make the series work without them being a necessary component of every game.

But that the essence of the game. Like Mario platformers and 3D games have Bowser kidnap Peach, DK looks for his bananas in his games, and Link save Zelda and the Triforce in his.

[VO.SUPER]

But that the essence of the game. Like Mario platformers and 3D games have Bowser kidnap Peach, DK looks for his bananas in his games, and Link save Zelda and the Triforce in his.

Well there's the problem of Metroid games. Metroid games have a strict one character continuity. So unlike with DK and Mario where the plots aren't serious and the characters rarely age, there's a huge hurdle of disbelief and repetition that can't be crossed with Metroid too often. And with Zelda, you have reincartnations as the excuse for each new adventure in Hyrule. Metroid has only one heroine, and that is Samus, unless Nintendo wanted to give her a descendant.

[Sean]

This is a good article that explains the problems with Samus's characterization in Other M. Among other things, I think it does a good job at giving context why long-time fans dislike what Sakamoto did, but to me the most interesting bit is the implications of her relationship with Adam.

[Tails spin]

Well there's the problem of Metroid games. Metroid games have a strict one character continuity. So unlike with DK and Mario where the plots aren't serious and the characters rarely age, there's a huge hurdle of disbelief and repetition that can't be crossed with Metroid too often. And with Zelda, you have reincartnations as the excuse for each new adventure in Hyrule. Metroid has only one heroine, and that is Samus, unless Nintendo wanted to give her a descendant.

Ah yeah your right. I completely forgot that the whole Zelda lore is based on different incarnations of the same hero and princess.

[LATER BUDDY]

It's been a long while since I've really played any Metroid. I've actually only really played the Prime series, and only about a half hours worth of time with Super Metroid. It's like half of me loves the Prime series, but the other half finds it boring since it takes me awhile to get sucked into it. Due to this, I've only finished Prime 1, and for whatever reason, quit at or near the final bosses of Prime 2 and 3. Despite this, I still gotta say Prime 2 is my favorite of the bunch (even though everyone seems to hate it the most).

[KHCast]

The last Time I played the Prime games was in 2008. I really got to replay those masterpieces.

[VO.SUPER]

I generally hold no qualms against Other M since I haven't played it, but the few details that I've learn about the game really does not help my perception of the writing.

The Ridley thing bugged me yeah, but what really bugs me is that because of this game Nintendo wrote out the Prime series. That does not make me happy.

However, this provides a good opportunity for NIntendo to say Other M didn't exist, since it contradicts the games the majority of Metroid fans liked.

Now, when I think about it, in this case I guess I understand why Samus would be afraid of Ridely... a little bit.

She still killed him three times if you include the manga in the storyline Sakamoto set up. She killed him in the Metroid manga, Metroid 1, and Super Metroid. That's 3 times.

[Old dead account]

How much did Other M sell anyways? I know the Primes sold about 2 million each.

Oh and also, if Other M is rendered noncanon then wouldn't that still leave a big plothole as to how Ridley's metroid preditated corpse shows up randomly in BSL? That's a minimal thing if it means bringing back the primes, but still...

Edited August 28, 2012 by Prince Solaris

[Scott]

Personally I'd love to a see new Metroid 2.5D game on the 3DS that takes place after Fusion, surely it can't be hard to make a story after it's events.

Have the map, hud and ability to change weapons on the touch screen while the action is on the top screen with Streetpass features to gain your upgrades/power ups early?

[Nintendoga]

How much did Other M sell anyways? I know the Primes sold about 2 million each.

It's just now reached the 1 mill mark.

And actually, Metroid 1 and Prime 1 are the only Metroid games to surpass the 2 million mark.

[VO.SUPER]

How much did Other M sell anyways? I know the Primes sold about 2 million each.

1,140,000 copies.

Prime 1: 2,820,000

Prime 2: 1,330,000

Prime 3: 1,630,000

Even Prime 2 outsold it.

[D-Metal X]

Sweet, a Metroid topic.

To anyone who hasn't played Super Metroid: go play it like right now. It's the exemplar of the classic 2D Metroid style, with it's amazing sense of loneliness, music, graphics (as far as SNES games go), and level design. It's definitely my favorite Metroid game, just beating out Metroid Prime, which is also amazing and one of the best choices ever made by Nintendo.

Seriously, the series has no overtly bad games, at least to me. Other M was more disappointing than completely unplayable to me. The Bottle Ship had that nice Metroid-style atmosphere to it, and I like how it elaborated on Adam Malkovich. Of course, it wasn't without its flaws, like its control scheme for example, but overall I didn't HATE it. Plus it had Anthony Higgs.

Anyway, Nintendo has to make a new Metroid game soon. Maybe they could have Samus be on the run from the Galactic Federation for destroying the Metroid breeding program on the BSL in Fusion. Or maybe she could do some work for them on some planet to get a pardon. Maybe she could be pursued by them because of her Metroid DNA which the Federation wants to exploit. There are plenty of directions they could go. Hell, I'd settle for another side story a la the Prime series, even. I just want a new game.

[YeppersPeppers]

I remember picking up Metroid Prime (my first Metroid game) on the GameCube and having the grandest time playing it. It was so exciting. The atmosphere was great. The music was great. The enemies and bosses were great. The gameplay was great. What made that game for me though was the immense amount of secrets and upgrades. I wasn't done until every Missile Tank, Energy Tank, and Power Bomb Expansion was found. AND THE LORE! My second playthrough involved scanning everything. So much detail. So much thought. So much effort put into building that universe. Reading it all was so cool, and it really shows how hard Retro Studios worked on the game.

I then went and started playing the 2D games. I wasn't too fond of Fusion. I still loved all the secrets, but it was just a tad too linear for me.

Super Metroid, in my opinion, is the best Metroid game. Hell, I'd even call it the best SNES game. Everything was just so...so...brilliant. That moment when you learn you can wall jump and you spend countless hours trying to master it. The wall jump can be used to break the game, and that's another thing I love about it. Little secrets like the beam shields and charge beam screw attack are so cool. I fucking love this game.

Other M...

...

ohgodwhy.

Edited August 28, 2012 by wOrm

[Old dead account]

That's what most of us expect out of the fabled Metroid Dread, a 2D/2.5D Metroid taking place after Fusion, with Samus either on the run for destroying BSL and the entire Planet SR388, or something else with the story. The federation has showed signs of corruption in Other M's bioweapons program and Fusion's Metroid Program for "Peaceful applications only" bullshit. As for a Prime follow-Up, they got Prime 3's secret ending to go off of.

Sales, wow. For games like primes in their quality you think that even 2 million would be a dissappointment, Other M also looked rather expensive, I hope they made enough to cover it. At least half of other M's sales had to be from the bargain bin sales right?

[VO.SUPER]

That's what most of us expect out of the fabled Metroid Dread, a 2D/2.5D Metroid taking place after Fusion, with Samus either on the run for destroying BSL and the entire Planet SR388, or something else with the story. The federation has showed signs of corruption in Other M's bioweapons program and Fusion's Metroid Program for "Peaceful applications only" bullshit. As for a Prime follow-Up, they got Prime 3's secret ending to go off of.

Sales, wow. For games like primes in their quality you think that even 2 million would be a dissappointment, Other M also looked rather expensive, I hope they made enough to cover it. At least half of other M's sales had to be from the bargain bin sales right?

Actually, a million sales is pretty good for a game like Metroid, and 2 million was awesome for Prime.

In Other M's case, since it was probably being compared to the Prime games when it comes to sales, my guess is that after the rise in sales after Prime 3, other M was seen as a big disappointment. And considering the new engine along with graphical beauty in those cutscenes (which probably had to be exported to a third party studios.) The cost of Other M must have been phenomenal. I just wish game developers told us the budgets of their games sometimes, like film directors do.

---

Now here's something interesting; sales in Japan;

130,000 - Other M

70,000 - Prime 3

10,000 - Prime 1

It obvious that this game appealed to Japanese Nintendo players better than the rest, but how much? Let's compare it to another game which didn't sell too hot in Japan when you do the math, Skyward Sword.

360,000

Edited August 28, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Old dead account]

That doesn't surprise me, Other M clearly appealed to them more. The brighter artstyle(which I liked), the linearity, Etc. reading the article of the differences in audiences between east and west makes you see this stuff.

And I thought Skyward Sword was more of a game that tried to appeal both audiences.

Also, added Prime Hunters and Pinball to the OP after neglecting them.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Prince Solaris

[Kuzu]

I love this series, the atmosphere, the exploration, the weapons, everything about it is just fucking awesome.

I originally had Prime 2(I wanted the first one, but my Mom couldn't find it) and I got into it for a minute but then Dark Aether scared the fuck out of me, and put it down for a few years, then I decided to finish it when my brother got into it, and I managed to beat the game. Afterwards I tried out Prime 1, which was mostly the same experience but felt less strenuous. I never finished Prime 3, mostly because I never had enough to buy it and only rented it and I only got up to the point where I had to get the energy cells. But yeah, I love the Prime series, and I'd still my have my copies of Prime 1 & 2 if my Mom didn't decide to forget my box of games during on her moves; Gamestop doesn't sell Gamecube games anymore and the Trilogy is fucking expensive so I'm kind of shit out of luck.

I never really got into the 2D games, mostly because I never had Super Metroid growing up, my brother had Fusion but it wasn't my thing and I never played Zero Mission. I plan to rectify that because they look fun, and I want to try them out.

Other M.......yeah, that game isn't terrible per se, but it's really fucking boring, it's trying to be Prime and failing miserably. Moving in 3D with a D-pad is stupid, first person mode effectively makes you helpless, and I could go on why I don't like this game. As for the Ridley scene, yeah bullshit, she had already kicked his ass twice so why is it this time she freaks? If this was a prequel it would make sense, but it's not and it just comes off as contrived.

[Emmett L. Brown]

The Metroid series is one of my all-time favourites, and until Other M I was proud to hold it high as the ONE decades' spanning series with no bad entries at all. Even Metroid Prime Hunters was by no means a bad game. Unfortunately, Other M was terrible in all the places where the rest of the Metroids games are fantastic.

Exploration:

- Other M had none. Completely linear from title screen to end credits. (Then you could explore the station fully post-credits)

- Other Metroids thrived on exploration. Every time you gained a new power-up you could freely return to a previous area to find new power-ups, shortcuts, alternate routes, and new means of dealing with the enemies present. Prime even gave you the option of marking certain areas of your map whenever you found a room with a type of barrier (for example) that you couldn't breach yet.

Show, Don't Tell:

- Other M always tells, never shows.We're told Adam is a tactical genius who cares deeply about Samus personally, but we're shown his being an unfeeling prick who constantly fails to use his resources effectively (how about letting Samus use her own plasma beam so she doesn't need to be saved by Awesome Black Guy's one-shot slow-charing plasma beam? Or how about the Varia suit, seriously?).

- Other Metroids never tell us what they can show us instead. There was no dialogue necessary to show Samus connecting with the Metroid Hatcling (I refuse to call it "The Baby", that's painfully lame) way back in Metroid II on the monochrome Gameboy. We didn't need to listen to ten minutes of Samus's droning zombie voice to recognise her responsibility and determination when she immediatelly set course for Zebes after watching Ridley steal the Hatchling. Samus always had a character, and just like Link or Crono, other silent protagonists, we knew that character well from her actions and reactions. The most beautifuly example of showing Samus's soft side to me occured in Zero Mission, right at the very end, when we get to see a child's scribble of a human girl with a pair of Chozo. The girl is drawn with a smile, and that tells me that Samus was happy being raised by the Chozo (which sadly is reason for nerd rage for my part when Other M tells us "Adam was the only father figure I'd ever known" Fuck!)

Evolving gameplay:

- Other M has the same gameplay style from start to finish. You've got your beam, your rockets and your fancy sense move ninja kicks. Done. All other upgrades are entirely situational.

- Other Metroids alter your gameplay with each new power suit addition. Get the ice beam, and now you can use floating enemies as platforms. Get the spider ball, and now you can explore the walls and ceiling freely (sadly only in Metroid II). Get the morph ball boost, and you can strike the ground-level weak points of certain enemies. Get the energy lassoo and you can drain or overcharge enemies. Get the X-ray visor and you can now test the density of any surface to find secrets. More importantly, the challenges stayed fresh and varied, and demanded you to keep improving your strategy in order to survive. Other M suffered from an overabundance of bosses that were defeated by shooting, dodging, shooting, dodging, repeat until dead. Compare that to, say, Quadraxxon (if that was the name) from Metroid Prime 2, that requires not only combat profeciency, but multiple morph ball tecniques and even utilising the echo visor just to beat the boss - with said boss having multiple forms each requiring different tactics.

Beautiful atmospheric music.

- Other M...had music? Really? I mean, there was the Ridley theme, awesome as always, and there was some melancholic stuff with the flashbacks, but other than that...um. I'm sure there had to be, but I can't remember any of it and I've played through that game twice.

- Other Metroids always set the scene perfectly. Brinstar, Norfair, Maridia, Tallon Overworld, Aegon Wastes, they all set the mood perfectly without being intrusive. And the boss themes, man. There's a reason why so much of the later music is remixed from and/or homages the soundtrack of Super Metroid.

You are Samus.

- Other M. No you're not. This girl with her droning voice, inability to use her own judgement unless forced (Varia suit, my god), and almost creepy level of devotion to a man who honestly treats her like crap for most of the game is Samus Aran. Yaaaaay?

- Other Metroids. Yes, you are Samus. You experience what she experiences. When she accidentally triggers the alarms in Old Brinstar in Super Metroid that "Oh shit" is both yours and hers. So is the "What the hell!?" when the Super Metroid itself first appears onscreen and starts draining the life out of you. The subsequent realisation that the Super Metroid is the Hatchling from the start of the game is shared, too, and along with it the anger when Mother Brain kills it. The Prime games only reinforced this appeal by placing the viewpoint inside Samus's helmet.

[Gregzilla]

The Metroid series is fantastic. I'll talk about the more significant games.

Metroid NES is fun, but I don't think it's aged very well. The map feels TOO confusing, and the repetitive rooms don't help. Still, it was pretty revolutionary for focusing on exploration and having a female protagonist, so for that, it has my respect.

Metroid 2 has some minor improvements over the original, but I find it even more frustrating to explore at times due to the repetitive black and white graphics, the big Samus sprite, and confusing level design. I'm not very far into it, but it's not one of the better ones.

Super Metroid is, in my opinion, as close to perfection as any game has ever come. The atmosphere, the controls, the exploration, the upgrades, the bosses, the music, the graphics, the replay value, GAAAH. For years I have claimed that this is the best game ever made. Nowadays I'm not entirely sure if I can say that (since I haven't played everything), but I certainly haven't played many games that I can call better than Super Metroid. It's just a masterpiece.

Fusion is a bit of a mixed bag. It has very fun controls and powerups to use, and it still feels like a good Metroid game, but something's missing. It doesn't feel lonely or atmospheric at all. Instead of being set on a big planet with beautiful areas to explore, you are in a space station the entire time. I didn't like that. That, coupled with the Federation's meddling and your computer sidekick, made it seem like it was trying too hard to be sci-fi and forgetting the soul of the series. Still a good game, though. And Samus' character was expanded upon slightly, which I thought was a nice touch without being annoying.

Prime 1 is a fantastic game, and it captures the heart and soul of Super Metroid wonderfully in a beautiful 3D world. I think it has the best soundtrack in the series (followed closely by Super Metroid), some of the most enjoyable environments to explore, and great atmosphere.

Zero Mission was my first Metroid game, and one of my first GBA games. It's not quite as awesome as Super Metroid, but it comes pretty close at times. It's definitely one of the best remakes ever, because it really doesn't feel like one. It totally revamps the original, adding new areas, bosses, and powerups. I wasn't a huge fan of the Zero Suit mission at the end, but overall it is still a great game.

I haven't beaten Prime 2 or 3, but they are both very good. Prime 2 has interesting environments, but a bit too much backtracking, and it seems a bit unnecessarily difficult at times. Prime 3 has fun motion controls and some other new innovations that I love. Also, it proves that a Metroid game CAN have good voice acting and likable characters. It also had some really good atmosphere, with some parts being downright creepy.

Prime Hunters is not very good. The exploration is not that great, the atmosphere isn't there, the controls are irritating at times, and it's overall definitely one of the weakest entries. That said, it is still and okay game.

Other M.....I've talked about this game a lot on this forum, so I'll recap my thoughts on it:

-Gameplay is mediocre, with idiotic controls and lack of exploration.

-Okay boss fights.

-Good graphics in a technical sense, but very uninteresting art design.

-Near-lack of music is a detractor, awesome Ridley theme aside.

-One of the most horrible, un-enjoyable stories to ever disgrace the medium. Filled with awful characterization, dialogue, and plot-holes (an entire sub-plot is completely forgotten about by the end, and is left unresolved). Also, a corrupt federation? Really?

-No character in this game is likable. Not one. Anthony Higgs comes closest, but he's still crap.

-Completely fucks up the opportunity to expand on Samus' character by keeping her lines restricted to dull inner monologue.

-In short, the worst game in the series, one of the shittiest gaming experiences I've ever had, and the only game I've played that I can personally say I absolutely despise.

As for the future of the series.....I honestly don't know. I don't care what they do as long as they redeem themselves for that miserable excuse for a game.

[Lady Soniko]

She killed him 4 times before that game. You'd think she'd be over the shock at that point.

[VO.SUPER]

it's not the point, The trauma Ridley has left on Samus overall is enough to send her into shock each time he comes back after she thought she had defeated, it doesn't help the fact she had destroyed the space pirates, the metroids and Zebes along with Ridley and Mother Brain, seeing all this come back to her in Other M is like reliving a Nightmare she just wants to forget, the fact Ridley came back from something she spared and could have dealt with at the time seriously shocks her, the fact she see's the Zebezian robots that remind her of Space Pirates and the fact she discovers Metroids all over again, of course she's not going to be over the shock of seeing everything she's tried so hard to eradicate from the universe, at large under the Federations eyes.

Edited August 28, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't even mind fear as long as it wasn't crippling fear.

[Lady Soniko]

i wouldn't say she was scared, more in disbelief of him returning from a little fluff ball, it's no lie Samus is OOC in Other M to a grand scale, she always seemed to have her mind elsewhere in Other M to begin with, probably couldn't take her mind off the Hatch ling and the shock of serving under the federation was incredibly alien to her all over after pretty much being outcast and becoming a bounty hunter under her own steam.