Metroid Topic

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

But wait, I know most of the comic is contradicted by Other M, but wasn't the scene where Ridley killed her parents still left intact? I assumed the PTSD scene was calling back to it in some capacity. I thought that was always somewhat official.

Even in the comic, Samus defeated Ridley and let out a war-cry. If ever there was a way to conquer your fear, Smaus pretty much did it.

I guess the sad thing is, she managed to be more awesome in that crappy comic no one wants to remember than in one of her huge mainstream games made by her creator.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Soma

[Mangoaxe5]

Speaking of Ridley why do so many fans ship him and Samus together? He killed her parents.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Vampfox

[VO.SUPER]

Because, to them, opposites attract, and they could care less that he's an alien.

Edited September 9, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Diogenes]

Speaking of Ridley why do so many fans ship him and Samus together?

why would you make me think this

i didn't want these thoughts

[Lady Soniko]

If a planet super nova isn't enough to kill your most hated adversary for good (clone talk aside), then i too would be shitting bricks at the very sight of it staring me in the face.

[Wraith]

If a planet super nova isn't enough to kill your most hated adversary for good (clone talk aside), then i too would be shitting bricks at the very sight of it staring me in the face.

I would most definetly not be shitting bricks if this was like the 7th time he "died" and showed up again.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Simon

[Blue Wisp]

Yeah but one would think that an ENTIRE PLANET BLOWING UP would finally kill someone for real. But Samus had no idea of the cloning plan taking place on the Bottle Ship so she would really be surprised if she saw her worst enemy being alive for the fivehundreth time after she thought a planet blowing up would have killed him for good.

[Old dead account]

Speaking of Ridley why do so many fans ship him and Samus together? He killed her parents.

...why am I surprised that this exists? It's not even the fact that they're a completely different species as much as it is their history.

"Hey Ridley, you killed my family and this is crazy, but here's my number so call me maybe?"

"Lol you killed me liek 6 times but ok I'll bring Kraid and we'll do a threeway"

OH GOD WHY! Where's the damn brain bleach? And why do I see Other M Samus doing this?

[VO.SUPER]

In spite of all the arguments about how Samus thought Ridley was dead for good. None of the arguments justify Samus' reaction towards RIdley, which was one of utter fear, equivalent to how she was as a child. It was to display her helplessness in the situation and make her look utterly pathetic towards the clone.

Plus, it's not like Ridley couldn't have found a way off of the planet after Samus "killed" him. It's a long way from Norfair to to Tourian anyways, so who's to say he couldn't have found a way off in that time period.

Edited September 10, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Lady Soniko]

OH GOD WHY! Where's the damn brain bleach? And why do I see Other M Samus doing this?

Team Ninja, that's why.

[Diogenes]

If a planet super nova isn't enough to kill your most hated adversary for good (clone talk aside), then i too would be shitting bricks at the very sight of it staring me in the face.

Yeah but one would think that an ENTIRE PLANET BLOWING UP would finally kill someone for real. But Samus had no idea of the cloning plan taking place on the Bottle Ship so she would really be surprised if she saw her worst enemy being alive for the fivehundreth time after she thought a planet blowing up would have killed him for good.

I'm honestly getting sick of hearing this.

In spite of all the talk about what you think she would feel, we know for a fact what Samus has done, and what she has done, consistently, is fight. Not a single time before or after has she been paralyzed with fear like this. Not against the Space Pirates. Not against enormous Metroids. Not against T-Rex Mother Brain. Not against evil clones of herself. Not against Ridley, the several other times she's fought him.

You want to say she would be shocked? Sure. You want to say she would be scared? Okay. You want to say she would be helpless? No. You are wrong.

We rarely know what's going on behind the visor, much less what's going on in her head. But not once has Samus been unable to fight back.

[ChaosXVI]

Jesus Christ...the last page or so is nothing but "I want Retro Studios deep inside me."...A sentiment I fully approve.

But yes, I replayed Prime 2 and 3 a couple weeks back and even though I've done so multiple times, the amount of depth jam-packed into both of these games amaze me, and continue to fill me with more and more rage and dumbfoundedness for Other M.

[Lady Soniko]

I'm honestly getting sick of hearing this.

In spite of all the talk about what you think she would feel, we know for a fact what Samus has done, and what she has done, consistently, is fight. Not a single time before or after has she been paralyzed with fear like this. Not against the Space Pirates. Not against enormous Metroids. Not against T-Rex Mother Brain. Not against evil clones of herself. Not against Ridley, the several other times she's fought him.

You want to say she would be shocked? Sure. You want to say she would be scared? Okay. You want to say she would be helpless? No. You are wrong.

We rarely know what's going on behind the visor, much less what's going on in her head. But not once has Samus been unable to fight back.

oh i don't deny that the scene and charactization was handled poorly in Other M, and yes she should of fought back but being shocked, scared, frozen for a short period of time is natural in these first hand situations where you've pretty much been in the dark throughout the whole game, then you're suddenly dropped in a battle facing against your rival, shock, and fright come naturally but like you said Samus should have overcome that after realization of the bigger picture, not just froze and become helpless.

Me and Blue aren't on about her inability to fight back in Other M, just the fact she should legitimately have been scared in that situation, regardless of the amount of times she's faced off and defeated Ridley in past titles, if you're under the impression a Super Nova has eradicated MB, Metroids and Ridley & his space cronies then yes you would be scared to death if you're under the impression the sheer power of a Super Nova wasn't enough to kill him and the metroids.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Super Soniko

[Blue Wisp]

Dude, how would you react if your worst enemy, the one that killed your parents and completely destroyed your homeworld -Not to mention the one that YOU THOUGHT WAS DEAD after a planet blew up- appeared out of nowhere and was directly in front of you growling at you?

Personally I would be really really scared shitless if that happened to me. Sure, Samus has OBVIOUSLY gone through worse, but does that mean that she has to be fearless of everything? That's just how I think about this whole thing.

EDIT: I am not defending Other M in any way, personally it's the worst Metroid game. But personally I can say that I understand how Samus reacted, I am not defending the game okay.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Blue Baron Wisp

[VO.SUPER]

Dude, how would you react if your worst enemy, the one that killed your parents and completely destroyed your homeworld -Not to mention the one that YOU THOUGHT WAS DEAD after you blew him up in a manga adaptation, blew him up on your first mission in zebes, got him shot through the chest before he blew up, threw him out of a ventilation shaft (but not before you blew open his mouth), blew him up when he was induced with phazon, and blew him up before a planet blew up- appeared out of nowhere and was directly in front of you growling at you?

Personally I would be really really scared shitless if that happened to me. Sure, Samus has OBVIOUSLY gone through worse, but does that mean that she has to be fearless of everything? That's just how I think about this whole thiing.

Fixed.

Edited September 10, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Diogenes]

Sure, Samus has OBVIOUSLY gone through worse, but does that mean that she has to be fearless of everything?

You want to say she would be scared? Okay.

Try to keep up.

The point isn't that Samus should be fearless, the point is that she shouldn't be helpless. I am perfectly alright with her being scared, the problem is that they took away her ability to fight back.

[Blue Wisp]

Fixed.

That was all sorts of awesome, and it was true nonetheless. Thanks Visionary, made my day.

[ChaosXVI]

Now look closely at about 30 seconds in. Samus hesitates a bit just slightly before blasting at AU 313, clearly showing at least a slight level of fear, obviously being slightly reminded of Mother Brain, now combined with the power of Dark Samus. But she still immediately shakes it off to fight. Retro was able to demonstrate a character trait without it completely hijacking the game, but body language is used frequently in the Prime Trilogy, and very effectively from what this video shows. Although the quality is kind of bad so it's kind of hard to see...

Edited September 10, 2012 by ChaosXVI

[Gregzilla]

I still think the idea of Samus being scared of Ridley is an interesting character trait. That said, it should be kept mostly internal. If Other M kept with Samus' previously established personality, she probably would have been in shock for about 2 to 5 seconds before shaking it off and blasting away. I have no problems with giving Samus an internal weakness, but having that fear emerge to the point where she is unable to fight (in order to save herself AND her teammate) is just insulting to the character.

[Speederino]

Dude, how would you react if your worst enemy, the one that killed your parents and completely destroyed your homeworld -Not to mention the one that YOU THOUGHT WAS DEAD after a planet blew up- appeared out of nowhere and was directly in front of you growling at you?

Personally I would be really really scared shitless if that happened to me. Sure, Samus has OBVIOUSLY gone through worse, but does that mean that she has to be fearless of everything? That's just how I think about this whole thing.

EDIT: I am not defending Other M in any way, personally it's the worst Metroid game. But personally I can say that I understand how Samus reacted, I am not defending the game okay.

Visionary put it pretty much perfectly, but by this point would you seriously be scared to see the guy you have killed 100,000,000 times back from the dead again? This isn't some unique event for Samus, it's fucking Thursday. She should be throwing her arms up and saying "Seriously dude, don't you EVER stay dead?" in an irritated voice, not cowering as if this is the first time she's seen Ridley since he killed her parents.

Different note, I've been playing through the main series (Metroids 1-4) again for the first time in years. After playing them back to back, I have to say...I think I like Fusion more then Super Metroid. PLEASE DON'T KILL ME INTERNET!!!

And Metroid 2 has not aged well. At all. Ew.

[G-Force]

I know that this is only vaguely related to what you guys are currently talking about, but I've been chewing on this for a while and I need to get it off my chest.

I ABSOLUTELY FUCKING HATE THAT DISSOLVING POWER SUIT BULLSHIT.

It's a story element that started in the Zero Mission prequel manga, and Other M had the disgusting privilege of introducing into the actual games. Basically, it's the idea that the Power Suit, Samus's iconic armor, and the one thing that keeps her protected from all of the extremely hazardous crap that she's damn near always throwing herself into the middle of, will just straight-up literally VANISH if Samus isn't concentrating hard enough. It's stupid. It was stupid in the manga, it's stupid in Other M, and it will never not be stupid.

Apparently, Sakamoto and whoever else is involved in writing this crap believe that the Chozo, unimaginably advanced, super-intelligent and enlightened aliens that they are, would design an armor/combat/space/diving/radiation/whatever-else suit that leaves them to die in situations where they probably need the protection most. Because if there's one thing the Chozo don't care about, it's preserving life. Which is why they dealt with the X by eradicating all life on SR388 and why they left young Samus to die on K-2L OH WAIT NO SORRY I WAS BEING FACETIOUS THEY DID THE OPPOSITE OF THOSE THINGS.

Seriously though, it's a wonder that Ridley didn't just shred her when the suit vanished. Or that the heat from the lava didn't roast her.

Okay, I think I'm done. Carry on.

[Candescence]

The Ridley scene was, yes, very much poorly handled, but to my knowledge Samus's reaction was a dead ringer for the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, and as I said before, a sufferer of PTSD has actually said as much about the scene itself. After the events of Prime 3 (having to kill her fellow bounty hunters) and Super Metroid, even a hardened veteran like Samus could very well plausibly have begun to suffer from it, and it could very well have triggered a reaction after seeing Ridley alive and well even after his remains were completely obliterated along with Zebes. Before this, she's only fought and defeated Ridley 4 times before this (I'm pretty sure he didn't show up in Prime 2), each time having a somewhat plausible reason to return (first time he came back as a cyborg, and then got knocked off the temple and Samus never saw the body so he may not have actually died in Prime 1, and maybe his organic bits got regenerated somehow after Prime 3, or he's still a cyborg but he just looks fully organic), but his defeat in Super Metroid was very much a different case.

Honestly, the whole thing could've been an amazing opportunity to provide a gender-neutral weakness to Samus that is both realistic and understandable, but like the rest of the game's story, Sakamoto dropped the ball on this one.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Solkia]

Psh, the only reason her suit disappeared in that cutscene was to make it OH SO DRAMATIC like everything else.

[VO.SUPER]

The Ridley scene was, yes, very much poorly handled, but to my knowledge Samus's reaction was a dead ringer for the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, and as I said before, a sufferer of PTSD has actually said as much about the scene itself. After the events of Prime 3 (having to kill her fellow bounty hunters) and Super Metroid, even a hardened veteran like Samus could very well plausibly have begun to suffer from it, and it could very well have triggered a reaction after seeing Ridley alive and well even after his remains were completely obliterated along with Zebes. Before this, she's only fought and defeated Ridley 4 times before this (I'm pretty sure he didn't show up in Prime 2), each time having a somewhat plausible reason to return (first time he came back as a cyborg, and then got knocked off the temple and Samus never saw the body so he may not have actually died in Prime 1, and maybe his organic bits got regenerated somehow after Prime 3, or he's still a cyborg but he just looks fully organic), but his defeat in Super Metroid was very much a different case.

Honestly, the whole thing could've been an amazing opportunity to provide a gender-neutral weakness to Samus that is both realistic and understandable, but like the rest of the game's story, Sakamoto dropped the ball on this one.

No it wasn't a different case. Ridley had plenty of time to escape zebes before the planet blew up. So Samus blew him up again, like I said, that's nothing he hasn't brushed off before.

Plus how would the deaths of the hunters ad baby metroid awaken this trauma? Ridley wasn't connected in any of their deaths.

[Candescence]

No it wasn't a different case. Ridley had plenty of time to escape zebes before the planet blew up. So Samus blew him up again, like I said, that's nothing he hasn't brushed off before.

Oh, bullshit. Before Super Metroid, chronologically, there is only ONE time where Ridley's body is seen after Samus takes him out, and that's after she defeats her in the original Metroid/Zero Mission. In Prime 1, Meta Ridley is knocked off the platform by the Chozo statue lasers and isn't seen again until Prime 3, where Samus sends him straight to the bottom of a chasm, and then takes him out again as Omega Ridley, where he disappears after he's actually defeated.

In Super Metroid, his death isn't unambiguous - Samus kills him there and then, and his corpse is obliterated along with Zebes. There is NO ROOM for doubt. Even if you don't ignore the Prime games like Other M apparently does, Samus has only killed Ridley once for certain before Super Metroid. Ridley's fate in the Prime games is actually rather uncertain, and you guys are seriously overstating the number of times Samus has actually defeated him.

One way or another, the original Ridley kicked the bucket for good in Super Metroid, there was no way he could have possibly survived his fight with Samus or the destruction of Zebes, it would be impossible for the pirates to revive him like they did for the Prime games after that, and Samus had no idea that the Ridley in Other M was a clone. So, yes, it is a special case.

Plus how would the deaths of the hunters ad baby metroid awaken this trauma? Ridley wasn't connected in any of their deaths.

That's not the point. Ridley doesn't need to be connected, Samus has been forced to endure the deaths of her comrades who she liked and very much respected, and the baby Metroid she cared for, on top of all the crap she's had to deal with, which could have resulted in her getting PSTD at some point. At this point, if she's suffering from PTSD, the very appearance of her arch-nemesis, who should all rights be gone for good, could very easily trigger symptoms.

As I said before, had Sakamoto not dropped the ball, Samus and Ridley's confrontation could've been an incredibly compelling scene and worked well not just for Samus' character but also done great things for the narrative, in an organic and realistic way.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Masaru Daimon