The Knuckles Topic - Is monkey a Knuckles-butt?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You know, I gotta say that makes total sense. That adds a lot more weight to the whole "don't include anyone without a valid reason".

Can't really argue there.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

So we've concluded that unless they support or expand the main plot point of a story, there's no need for any additional characters, and the points of the story should be kept to a minimum as not to clutter up the narrative? Sounds good.

[ChaoChao]

I definitely agree with you on that, Diogenes. The use of characters should always be dependent on the specific dynamic trying to be achieved through the storyline at hand. As I said before, thankfully they are beginning to understand that.

[Diogenes]

Hey, who wants more Knuxchat? I want more Knuxchat.

Let's consider, for a moment, what would happen if Knuckles were suddenly free of his restraints. Let's say the Master Emerald has been completely and permanently destroyed, and Angel Island is now safely located at sea level (either it's buoyant enough to be a whole different kind of "floating" island, or it's resting on the edge of a landmass like in SA, or whatever). Whether you think this is a good direction to take the character or not, what would you do with him in this situation? How would you make up for what he's lost? Perhaps even, what do you think would be the best way to do away with those restraints?

Without a need to stay on the island, they could put more emphasis on him being a treasure hunter. He can travel around and see the world he didn't have much opportunity to see before. Maybe he could even seek out other echidnean ruins; aside from Angel Island we've seen the Mystic Ruins (though admittedly they are part of the same civilization) and the Egyptian-styled ruins in SA2, so there could be more.

And maybe they can give him that sweet hat.

Also entirely unrelated, but where did Knuckles get his shoes from? Did he come down to the surface to get some sneakers? Is there a sweatshop somewhere on the island cranking out off-brand footwear?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hey, who wants more Knuxchat? I want more Knuxchat.

Let's consider, for a moment, what would happen if Knuckles were suddenly free of his restraints. Let's say the Master Emerald has been completely and permanently destroyed, and Angel Island is now safely located at sea level (either it's buoyant enough to be a whole different kind of "floating" island, or it's resting on the edge of a landmass like in SA, or whatever). Whether you think this is a good direction to take the character or not, what would you do with him in this situation? How would you make up for what he's lost? Perhaps even, what do you think would be the best way to do away with those restraints?

See that's the difficult part, because a lot of what's currently out their not only has other characters occupying it, but unless you have some serious skills with a pen it would come off as incredibly random for his character development and not have a very good reception. Of course, that's mainly the result of fandom skepticism still lingering since 2005, but ever since they did the mess they did to Shadow, it's a lot to wonder if doing all that to Knuckles could result in similar sentiments. Like Shadow, you could come up with just about anything to make up for that loss, although it's a question of if you would even accept it.

And you know, that's kind of the armor piercing question for those who would very well want to do that just to have Knuckles around. I've already come up with ways to deal with the restraints he has, so I don't think I need to repeat them (unless you want me to )

Without a need to stay on the island, they could put more emphasis on him being a treasure hunter. He can travel around and see the world he didn't have much opportunity to see before. Maybe he could even seek out other echidnean ruins; aside from Angel Island we've seen the Mystic Ruins (though admittedly they are part of the same civilization) and the Egyptian-styled ruins in SA2, so there could be more.

Although, they could do this much. Then there's a question of how much you could run with that.

Also entirely unrelated, but where did Knuckles get his shoes from? Did he come down to the surface to get some sneakers? Is there a sweatshop somewhere on the island cranking out off-brand footwear?

...

...

Did Inferno give you any coffee dude?

[Indigo Rush]

I think Knuckles would indeed search for treasure, as is his nature, however I'm not sure what he'd actually do with the treasure he finds. Perhaps, to him, treasure means lost relics of his nearly extinct race. Perhaps he could be spending his free time trying to find any other traces of the Knuckle clan, since he's already scoured Angel Island inside and out.

Although I wouldn't necessitate the destruction of the Master Emerald, however some form of keeping it hidden permanently could be interesting.

...

Hey.

What if Knuckles hid the Master Emerald in the Special Stage?

[KazunaRei]

How about the Blue Sphere mini-game special stage. If you want it you have to play through all the stages.

So how many stages would that be? o3o

[Kuzu]

I totally support Knuckles getting that hat from the OVA, its too fucking awesome to not use.

But, I guess treasure hunting would be the ideal occupation for Knuckles, I mean he's an exploration echidna and his abilities are suited for such. He can be the Indiana Jones of the Sonic series, trekking tombs, getting treasures, and baggin bitches. Plus, it'd be the best way to focus on his sexual tension rivalry with Rouge, as both are on the opposite sides when it comes down to treasure. And its versatile enough in that when he appears, there doesn't need to be a major explanation. "Why is Knuckles here?" "Because he's treasure hunting".....I honestly like the sound of this better than almost any angle with the Master Emerald to be honest.

[Mangoaxe5]

I totally support Knuckles getting that hat from the OVA, its too fucking awesome to not use.

Sadly Sega seems to not want things from the OVA being used for some reason.

[Burning Neoxor]

But, I guess treasure hunting would be the ideal occupation for Knuckles, I mean he's an exploration echidna and his abilities are suited for such. He can be the Indiana Jones of the Sonic series, trekking tombs, getting treasures, and baggin bitches. And its versatile enough in that when he appears, there doesn't need to be a major explanation. "Why is Knuckles here?" "Because he's treasure hunting".....I honestly like the sound of this better than almost any angle with the Master Emerald to be honest.

While there doesn't have to be a major explanation, I would like little more substance than "because he's treasure hunting". It could be that the treasure he has acquired is in actuality a powerful artifact that Eggman is after which results in Knuckles playing keep away and finding what this artifact is all about. That way Knuckles has an actually role to play instead of Knuckles' role quickly devolving into "kickin it with Sonic and Tails."

And the more I think about, we shouldn't be so quick to marginalize his guardianship into non existence. His role as guardian gives him a sense of integrity, determination, and purpose that just being a treasure hunter can't replicate. Without the M.E., he becomes a stereotypical quick-tempered strongman with the traits of loyalty and heroism that are common as dirt among sonic characters (even with the anti-heroes).

I know that fans (including myself) want to play Knuckles more often than what is currently happening and I have an idea. What I propose is that the one or two characters (besides sonic and eggman) have actual role in the plot and come automatically playable with well thought-out game mechanics. Basically what ChaosSupremeSonic has be advocating all along. However, the fan favorites that aren't part of the plot are available as dlc re-skinned sonics with slight tweaks and vocal assets (basically what moders are doing in pc version of Sonic Generations). That way Knuckles can appear basically in every main game either as a playable character with an important role to play or a dlc. This could be easily done with the Sonic Team resources and I know fans are willing to play a small fee to play as their favorite character.

[Kuzu]

While there doesn't have to be a major explanation, I would like little more substance than "because he's treasure hunting". It could be that the treasure he has acquired is in actuality a powerful artifact that Eggman is after which results in Knuckles playing keep away and finding what this artifact is all about. That way Knuckles has an actually role to play instead of Knuckles' role quickly devolving into "kickin it with Sonic and Tails."

And the more I think about, we shouldn't be so quick to marginalize his guardianship into non existence. His role as guardian gives him a sense of integrity, determination, and purpose that just being a treasure hunter can't replicate. Without the M.E., he becomes a stereotypical quick-tempered strongman with the traits of loyalty and heroism that are common as dirt among sonic characters (even with the anti-heroes).

I know that fans (including myself) want to play Knuckles more often than what is currently happening and I have an idea. What I propose is that the one or two characters (besides sonic and eggman) have actual role in the plot and come automatically playable with well thought-out game mechanics. Basically what ChaosSupremeSonic has be advocating all along. However, the fan favorites that aren't part of the plot are available as dlc re-skinned sonics with slight tweaks and vocal assets (basically what moders are doing in pc version of Sonic Generations). That way Knuckles can appear basically in every main game either as a playable character with an important role to play or a dlc. This could be easily done with the Sonic Team resources and I know fans are willing to play a small fee to play as their favorite character.

I know that, it was just a what if scenario like Dio said.

[CornP]

Wouldn't he hang with the Chaotix characters? I thought they all lived in the same island. Or was it carnival island?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Wouldn't he hang with the Chaotix characters? I thought they all lived in the same island. Or was it carnival island?

That game isn't canon, so no. Plus, Carnival Island isn't Angel Island.

[AAUK]

You want to go about the series canon? The only things that are canon by Word of God (AAUK) are:

• ......
  
• And Sonic Generations
  

SatSR is mentioned in Generations, so I'd give that a definite "yes".

Actually to my knowledge at no point did I say Sonic Generations was definitely canon. I probably said it was a main series game - which it is but it is one under special circumstances. I think we can all agree the plot is really just a loose framework to cover what they wanted to do as opposed to tell a specific story.

That plus the fact is I could give you a strong argument as to why it isn't in the slightest bit canon: Because if it WAS canon it invalidates the entire timeline from at a maximum after Sonic 2 onwards due to the knowledge Classic Sonic, Tails and Dr. Eggman now posses.

As for Secret Rings, just because it was mentioned by Sonic in the game does not mean that it actually happened, even if Generations is canon. After all Sonic is asleep at the beginning of the game and it could all easily have been a dream. Sonic said it because it "happened" to him, Tails gives no real reaction to it when mentioned and its not reflected in the game bar that comment. To be honest I think it was just thrown in by the writers as a good example of a ludicrous (and recent) situation Sonic has been a part of. That does not therefore mean that it promotes Secret Rings to having actually happened in Sonic's universe.

Best way to look at it: Will any of the events of Secret Rings EVER be truly relevant to the main series of games going forward?

Answer: No.

Therefore Secret Rings is likely still not canon.

Everybody follow that?

Edited February 19, 2012 by ArchangelUK

[Marcello]

It just seems like a poor excuse, to be honest.

[AAUK]

A poor excuse?

[Marcello]

Yeah, because the whole "It's never relevant to the rest of games" would also make Sonic 1 and anything past Shadow the Hedgehog noncanon. Not that that's the actual meaning of canon anyway.

Of course, we are assuming there is a coherent canon.

[AAUK]

I think you're taking that a bit too literally.

I think we can be certain Sonic 1 happened... or at least that was when Robotnik first attacked.

Edited February 19, 2012 by ArchangelUK

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Actually to my knowledge at no point did I say Sonic Generations was definitely canon. I probably said it was a main series game - which it is but it is one under special circumstances. I think we can all agree the plot is really just a loose framework to cover what they wanted to do as opposed to tell a specific story.

To be honest, I really just threw that in there since it was a main series game and a major one at that. You didn't say it, but it was a title that I'd assume to be more than obvious to be part of the canon, especially since it connects and continues right after Colors (despite only hearing the connection at the end).

[Kuzu]

Bump. So getting off the seriousness, what does everyone think of Knuckles current Butt Monkey status? Approve or Disapprove.

[MegaMan_EXE]

Well, let's see. Knuckles is an echidna, who guards a big emerald of power, and is strong. He has made several appearances since Sonic 3, and is one of my favorite characters. He's also known for chuckling and can be gullible, but is still a fun character

[K.T.E.]

Knuckles is my favorite Sonic character ( as implied by the avatar.) Anyway, yeah, he's the butt of alot of jokes and that's about as deep as his character is presented these days. In my opinion, I've always felt he was a terrific character, complete with a backstory no other character cold compare to. Knuckles is supposed to be stern and responsible to compensate for the "original" personality of Sonic, which was sort of marked by riskiness and smartassery. Unfortunately, he's now the buffoon.

[Zarakai]

I'd love for knuckles to either have his own game again or just feature as a playable character again or be integrated into the story more instead of being a tag along character. He was always my favourite character as a kid and still one of my faves now.

[Indigo Rush]

Alright, I wanna bump this topic because I have another crackpot theory regarding Knuckles' duty leaving the Master Emerald, potential character development and his involvement in future games.

So, as we've discussed in the "Chaos Control" topic, we understand that the Chaos Emeralds (and by extension, the Master Emerald) are ridiculously overpowered deus ex machina in gem form. Well, there's our point of salvation for Knuckles' excuse for not staying on Angel Island all the time. However, this would go beyond the information given to us from Sonic Team, SEGA or otherwise, and it'd be fanfiction territory. But I figure, since the Chaos Emeralds have been used for such arbitrary explanations before, I don't think it'd be so jarring that it'd throw the series mythos off balance. Not that it already wasn't, but I digress.

So, Knuckles recently develops some more abilities in relation to the Master Emerald and Chaos Emeralds as their blood guardian; the ability to use the Master Emerald (after tucking it away safely in the Hidden Palace) to create a massive protection field around the entirety of Angel Island. It's not just some regular shield, however, as it will only allow anybody who has a strong affinity with the Chaos Emeralds (can use Chaos Control, is a guardian, can turn Super, etc), or the Emeralds themselves, to pass through its barriers. Eggman, with all of his incredibly powerful technology, is not able to break through. You hypothetically wouldn't even need GUN or any other outer defenses with this kind of protection.

Let's add one more arbitrary ability... the ability to throw off any tracking devices or other pieces of technology. Have any of you ever watched Spy Kids 2: Island of Lost Dreams? The main object of interest in that film was a man-made talisman that rendered any kind of electronic device unusable within its barriers. Cellphones, GPSs, even digital watches, totally useless. What if the Master Emerald's protection field not only provided a physical barrier, but an electrical one as well? Say Eggman actually manages to break through somehow. Even if he did, his high-tech gear would be useless to begin with, so why bother? Heck, with this shield, the Island wouldn't even be track-able, much less penetrable.

This idea could make for some interesting plot devices. Shadow, having his natural affinity with the Chaos Emeralds, could potentially break through and steal the Master Emerald on Eggman's behalf. As to why he ever would, I'm not sure... but it's an idea. There's quite a bit you could do with this, with the right amount of creativity.

Most importantly, this gives Knuckles some new freedom. He's seen Angel Island inside and out for his entire life, so he's probably not so hesitant to leave, especially after all the excitement with joining Sonic and Tails on their many adventures. However, let's expand on something that hasn't been touched on for a while: his ability and love for treasure hunting. You see it referenced a little in Sonic Adventure 2, but not much beyond that. When Knuckles isn't on the island, you could say that he's out traveling the globe, searching for ancient relics of his past, or any past for that matter. Knuckles knows a lot about ancient languages, as seen in Sonic Riders: ZG, so what else does he know? What else can he learn?

Through his present knowledge as well as anything he learns during his world travels, Knuckles could be an extremely useful walking encyclopedia on all things ancient and forgotten. With his treasure hunting skills and interest in the ancients, we have a new occupation for him. He's not always with Sonic and Tails either, and would only show up if they really needed an extra hand. This way, Knuckles isn't always present, and when he is, it's not at the expense of our current understanding of his job as the Master Emerald's guardian. Wouldn't it be so awesome for Sonic and Tails to be totally stumped, when Knuckles walks in and lays down info on some sort of ancient technobabble, giving them a much needed hint?

I think that'd be cool.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[azoo]

I feel like we need something like that more than anything. However, there's one problem with this that raises lots of questions.. what if we had a game that potentially goes back to Angel Island? How would we explain anyone that isn't Sonic, Knuckles, Shadow, etc coming in? Or for that matter, how do we explain badniks getting into the area?