The Ace Attorney Topic (DS, 3DS, iOS) - News in OP

[Salamander]

I don't think that translation issues inside the game would be nearly as big an obstacle to it being localised as commercial issues would be.  They'll localise it if they think it will sell, and it'll be the localisation team's job to deal with any issues that arise from that.

Honestly I think they'll just not bother disguising the settings of the game.  The American setting of the main series is the most minor detail ever and something that's only mentioned in passing, and I can't imagine why anyone would mind or feel alienated by a Japanese start to the game considering that the thing they'll be advertising the heck out of will be Sherlock Holmes and London.  With that in mind, how I would consider handling the specific issues in that post - and I'll spoiler tag this for those who don't want to know absolutely anything about the game, though the context given is very vague (and also I'm not sure spoiler tags are working at the moment, but hey)...

So we have a woman who is English, it's important that she's English, she delivers testimony in English, and because she's in Japan then this is delivered through a translator, and so her actual testimony is transliterated in meaningless scribbles.

My response: Suspension of disbelief.  What do I mean by that?  Well, in most fiction set in foreign times or climes, we assume the characters aren't really speaking English, it's just being translated for our benefit.  Likewise, in the Japanese version of DGS, everyone in England is going to be speaking Japanese, we're just pretending it's English and just being presented to us as Japanese, right?  Similarly, in an English version, everyone in the Japanese scenes would be speaking English anyway, but we would pretend to ourselves that they're really speaking Japanese...

As such, how I'd play it in the English version: Obviously, all sides are speaking English, but we pretend that there's a language barrier using suspension of disbelief.  As such, it's fine to leave the English testimony written in indecipherable scribbles because the viewpoint characters can't understand it.

I don't think there's much to be done about the classical Japanese linguistic style of the early game except to convey it through archaic diction and vocabulary.  Though in the specific case of pre-loanwords, it'd be funny and arguably appropriate to leave them in Japanese and have the loanwords displayed in English above them.

[Sean]

The Dual Destinies localization team went out of their way to continue reminding us that the series was set in America though. Not only does case 2 make up bullshit about Japanese immigrants making a settlement in the west (and somehow all the yokai followed them), but they even edited Fullbright's police badge to be LAPD.

 

Personally, I doubt this has a chance of localization due to Phoenix Wright not being in the game to advertise it

Edited July 15, 2015 by Sean

[Tara]

Yes, as much as I really want this game, the chances of it being localized are dependent on the popularity of visual novels in the west.  That is to say, the odds aren't very reliable.  Even without localization conundrums, it's rare for a visual novel to breakthrough in to the western mainstream game market in any form, so without the actual series icon to make the game's release more widespread, it's not in Capcom's best interest to bother localizing and distributing it for a western release.  We can still hope, but I'd advise against holding your breath.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Tara

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Oh Ace Attorney is certainly popular enough to warrant at the very least, a digital distribution. It's one of those visual novel/adventure game hybrids to have actually found a notable fanbase worldwide after all. Again, I'd peg us not getting it up to Capcom being hard-headed.

[Tara]

Ace Attorney is popular enough, but an Ace Attorney game featuring none of the original characters is another story.

[Salamander]

With any luck, the inclusion of Sherlock Holmes might pick up some of the slack on that front.  I've heard sincere suggestions that they call it something like "Ace Attorney vs. Sherlock Holmes," and that actually strikes me as not the least sensible thing they could do.

[Tara]

That's what I'd like to hope, as well.  As far as brand recognition goes, that would at least make it clear as to what series it's a part of and what their leading marketing gimmick is.  Still not sure how it would bode for people who are accustomed to actually seeing Phoenix's face on the front of whatever promotional material we're given, though.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Tara

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Ace Attorney is popular enough, but an Ace Attorney game featuring none of the original characters is another story.

I'd argue that such is made up for by the presence of Sherlock Holmes. Also,  I'd say they make it obvious to the general public of the ancestry gimmick here,  that the initial problem itself could also be solved. 

NOW, on new pressing matters. 

http://www.forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=31288

Amazon reviews from Japan, have been in a bit of an uproar over massive sequel hooks,  many claiming that the game feels "incomplete" despite many resolutions. 

The thought occurs that a localization may be held off until the template for the "compete package" akin to how the original trilogy localizations began a year after Trials and Tribulations was released in Japan. 

[Salamander]

That does sound very much like the kind of thing that should have been made clear in advance, yes.  Making a title that can't stand on its own isn't a good idea, especially if you don't know for a fact that you're going to get those sequels.

In the link, numerous comparisons are made to Virtue's Last Reward, but it's worth remembering that that was the second in a planned trilogy; in my experience, trilogies tend to be handled by having the first volume be self-sufficient while the second then leads more closely into the third.  A scheme like that might have been more advisable here; test the waters with the first volume before you commit to a longer-running story arc.

The idea of holding off localisation until another two games are out in Japan is pretty intolerable, though, but waiting at least until a sequel is very clearly in the offing would, alas, probably be advisable, so that you can very clearly point to that and present the series as a series from the start rather than giving the impression it's a lone spin-off title.  Outright put a "1" right there in the title.

[Sean]

Oh boy, it's Apollo Justice all over again

[Tara]

This is just the ending, though, right?  Is the rest of the game okay?

I really hate cliffhanger endings, though.  I can't be excited for a sequel if I'm not sure I liked the first story.  Please stap doing this, game developers.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

This is just the ending, though, right?  Is the rest of the game okay?

Overall, yep the game's been received brilliantly for the most part, in spite of one-star Amazon reviews which are mainly over the "incomplete" sequel hook-ish ending. Apparently it ends on a resolving note anyway, but it's felt that there a a fair lot of loose ends. I cant clarify myself on what they are since I'm resisting spoilers at the moment.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The Dual Destinies localization team went out of their way to continue reminding us that the series was set in America though.

To be fair and honest though, that was Capcom doing their darnedest to reassure Ace Attorney fans in the west after AAI2's failure to make it over to the west, so it's not quite a legit comparison to gauge where things stand.

Many tend to be unaware that AAI2 didn't make it over here, not because of allegedly low sales of AAI, but because not only was AAI2 made on the brink of the end of the Nintendo DS's era, but in addition, because of such, the AAI2 team had disbanded at that point.

[Sean]

I'm not talking about that I'm referring to the constant references to the AA series taking place in the United States, which was a thing barely addressed after the first game. Like, AA1 and 5 are the only games to explicitly spell out the location as Los Angeles, CA

 

[Solly]

2 and 3 have a number of references to the games taking place in the US, although I don't remember if L.A is specifically referenced in them. Also, even when America isn't being mentioned, there's a bunch of implications that the setting isn't Japan. I'd say it's pretty explicit throughout every game. The Dual Destinies localization team doesn't deserve ire for this. It's not like they had much to work with. 

I think it's really silly, and the localizers were kinda forced to lampshade things, but I don't think that has anything to do with why this game probably isn't coming over here. 

Edited July 18, 2015 by Solly

[Sean]

I'm not giving Capcom ire for it. I'm just pointing it out in response to the suggestion that they can simply brush the American setting under the rug for DGS, as it's impossible to retcon it at this point

I'm sure if they really wanted to, they can make up Phoenix being part Japanese, but I think there are other things hindering this game's release

 

 

 

[Solly]

I'm sure if they really wanted to, they can make up Phoenix being part Japanese, but I think there are other things hindering this game's release

Oh, totally.

It's been mentioned that there's no Phoenix Wright to market the game with, and that's definitely a big reason. But on top of that, I think a lot of cultural context and nuances are going to be lost on foreigners. You're probably expected to know a bit of Japanese history as well. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Oh, totally.

It's been mentioned that there's no Phoenix Wright to market the game with, and that's definitely a big reason. But on top of that, I think a lot of cultural context and nuances are going to be lost on foreigners. You're probably expected to know a bit of Japanese history as well. 

I argue that this could be handled by doing what some Ace Attorney game have done, by giving an abridged explanation of certain Japanese cultural aspects, just don't have them as elaborate or complex as it would be for those in Japan who would actually get it from the get go.

 

[Tara]

I'm anticipating that even giving background for the necessary Japanese culture might hinder the experience when historical perception and connotation might play a big part in the game.  Something rooted in history usually relies on the meaning that is associated with different historical figures, which isn't often translated incredibly well into different cultures, even with background exposition.

Also worthy of note is that (in the English version), many of the instances of Japanese culture were just as alien to Phoenix as it is to us, so they could get away with just giving us an explanation to keep us from being confused.  It would be sort of hard to pull that same shtick here, presumably, since it features the main characters engaging and living openly in Japanese culture.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

That might have been more of a problem if it weren't for the fact such is the case for only the first case when it comes to the area. The rest takes place in more when territory.

And with the first case being the usual "confined to the courthouse" shtick that first cases in any non-Investigations game has  had,  I doubt that the density of how much Japanese culture is to be explored shouldn't be a problem to adapt to the situation for the localization. Japan isn't even the main world of the game,  so the first case shouldn't have to be an entire textbook case on Japan as opposed to a series of notable facts that help move the story along. 

 

Heh,  ironically the series  wasn't  even set to be outright Japanese.According to Takumi, he was originally making the games to be more accessible,  but Capcom at the time weren't  up for a localization. So "Gyuakuten Saiban " went on in as is,  and Capcom with their spectacular timing told him by the time Trials and Tribulations was in the making that Ace Attorney would need getting localized. Not that the localizations aren't brilliant  and hilarious,  and no way is a manageable  localization of The Great Ace Attorney impossible,  but it's funny how the cycle all comes back to Capcom. 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So,  am I alone in thinking that Dual Destinies' "Tell the Truth" theme is criminally underutilized? 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

For those who didn't know,  the initiative for a possible fan translation of Dai Gyakuten Saiban have emerged here https://gbatemp.net/threads/request-someone-interested-in-making-a-translation-of-daigyakuten-saiban.393054/

It's no where near a big benchmark yet, but the ability to code in text at the moment at least looks promising. 

I suppose only time will tell if this'll end up being a repeat in history of Trials and Tribulations' infamous fan translation that didn't get finished for obvious reasons or that of Ace Attorney Investigations 2.

 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

And now,  ladies and gentlemen, this is what happens  when you glitch Ace Attorney. 

http://youtu.be/OS-UDkAs3HM

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

[Salamander]

So I've been playing Apollo Justice, and just recently finished the third episode, Turnabout Serenade.  And there is an elephant in the room which nobody ever mentions...

So.  Machi Tobaye.  Tiny, skinny, frail-looking young boy of fourteen.  And we're asked to believe that he fired a heavy revolver with kickback capable of breaking the wrist of anyone not strong enough or well-trained in its use, twice, and then dragged a guy more than twice his height and weight along a corridor and up a flight of stairs in a short enough time not to be noticed.  Why does nobody ever, ever point out that this makes no sense?  Like, I know it's wrong, but this seems like a massive flaw in the prosecution's case and I can't believe it wasn't called out in court.  You could even have used the revolver as evidence.

Actually, the moving of the body applies to the real killer, too, if we're honest.  My initial reading of the situation was that the victim shot himself - the wound was stated to be non-fatal, it was the blood loss that got him - as part of a botched frame-up operation that ended up killing him by mistake.

Well, onto the fourth case.  I'm looking forward to learning the complete story of why this game is so unpopular.

[Nix]

So I've been playing Apollo Justice, and just recently finished the third episode, Turnabout Serenade.  And there is an elephant in the room which nobody ever mentions...

Hidden Content

Logic?  In a court of law?  Psssssh, no, we're just going to listen to the same song over and over again because reasons.

 

4-3 is trash, but I still don't hate it as much as 2-3.