The opportunities of a new Sonic show down the line.

[Diogenes]

I'm not even sure what it would take to get me interested in a new Sonic show.

If it were based on the games, for one thing, there'd be this sort of cross-media pollution that I don't really like. Unless it's something really tightly written (with this series? Fat chance...), I think they'd need to be able to stand on their own. And there's also the problem that...the story of the games just isn't that interesting. Most of what's interesting is the stuff the games only hint at, the stuff fans insert to fill the gaps, and the stuff that could've happened if Sega actually had the balls to do something interesting.

On the other hand, if you write something standalone, something with some real meat to it...it isn't Sonic. Looks like Sonic, talks like Sonic, but isn't Sonic. And that's going to be a constant mental conflict. Plus, at that point, what's gained from calling it Sonic? Aside from the instant fanbase, anyway...why not shed those last chains and make something original?

My only statement here is that there's no need for unneeded fillers

Well if you define it that way, yes, of course there's no need for something unneeded.

just for character development when just a few spoken lines and a couple of actions is the enough to tell us all.

Remember that Sonic is an action story, not some kind of novel.

An "action story" with paper thin characters is shallow entertainment. If they can't do better than that, I don't think it's worth bothering with a show.

[RDNexus]

But it's not a picture book either. Action stories can be well developed with a good amount of episodes. Digimon Adventure-Tamers taught me that well enough.

DGMN is more based on RPG elements, Sonic is a platformer...

There's a big difference on how a story goes for each of them.

Edited January 5, 2012 by XRick

[Diogenes]

DGMN is more based on RPG elements, Sonic is a platformer...

There's a big difference on how story goes for each of them.

TV shows are neither RPGs nor platformers, the comparison is nonsense.

[VO.SUPER]

DGMN is more based on RPG elements, Sonic is a platformer...

There's a big difference on how a story goes for each of them.

The shows themselves are not based on any games though, and are pretty much standard Saturday morning at it's best. (Maybe excluding Tamers.)

[RDNexus]

The shows themselves are not based on any games though, and are pretty much standard Saturday morning at it's best. (Maybe excluding Tamers.)

DGMN Adventure is based on DGMN World 1 for PSX, as far as I remember. The series was to just have 13eps, the file island arc, but it's popularity made it go longer.

TV shows are neither RPGs nor platformers, the comparison is nonsense.

Yeah, but each genre have a certain amount of storyline which, when adapted to series, is filtered.

RPGs tend to have more plot than platformers, hence having more plot for an adaptation, sometimes even too much...

Edited January 5, 2012 by XRick

[Diogenes]

edit: this post was dumb give me a moment to better collect my thoughts

edit2: Ok let me try this again

But regardless of what genre of game it is, the rules of making a good show don't change. Even if an RPG has more story than a platformer, a show based on an RPG should not have more story than a show based on a platformer. At most, writing a show based on a platformer would involve inventing more stuff to expand the thin story, but both would need serious rewriting and restructuring just to work at the most basic level. How much the characters and story are developed has more to do with the tone and the kind of story being told than what genre of game they're originally from.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Diogenes

[VO.SUPER]

DGMN Adventure is based on DGMN World 1 for PSX, as far as I remember. The series was to just have 13eps, the file island arc, but it's popularity made it go longer.

Yeah, but each genre have a certain amount of storyline which, when adapted to series, is filtered.

RPGs tend to have more plot than platformers, hence having more plot for an adaptation, sometimes even too much...

But they're all action once converted to a show. Or at least most RPGs are. A show and a game are completely different things, and the differences need to be accepted. I've seen short shows that literally had me gagging at how rushed they were. Take Slayers Revolution, a show I loathe because of how quickly it goes by it's events, or how about Slayer's first season with the battle of Shab-shaba... the big bad. That was an awful fight because of how there was little to no pacing involved to reaching it, and the story elements were literally being pulled out of the bum right there. Your speed for a Sonic show is just what I see right there, and I just can't like the idea.

Diogenes does have a point though, the games are so sparse that a lot has to be added in order to really make them work well, but at the same time when you add too much it may as well not be Sonic. I'll admit, maybe my ideas are a little too long, but if anything, the ideas I've been seeing are too short, there must be some sort of balance to find somewhere.

[Kuzu]

This is probably why all of the previous shows were never that good, the games really don't have enough material to go on as most of the stories are standalone with little continuity connecting them and you wind up with one of two things.

A completely different story that is Sonic in name only and bears little resemblance to the source material its adapting(SATAM, Underground).

A completely shallow story that only follows maybe one or two plot-lines from the games while everything else is just boring ass filler(Sonic X, AOSTH)

So yeah unless the writers are willing to actually explore myths of the series(Ha.) yeah a Sonic show really doesn't seem like a good idea at this point.

[RDNexus]

@Blur

And wouldn't 6 eps per game be more than enough?

There's no need to have all stages of a game adapted faithfully or even at all, some of them only are in the games for different kinds of level design...

@Shadic:

Hence the need for ST to solve that mess once and for all. I too really wanna see a sort of series better than SonicX and more focused on the games' plot than anything else while giving us a decent continuity to the whole series.

Edited January 5, 2012 by XRick

[Kuzu]

.

@Shadic:

Hence the need for ST to solve that mess once and for all. I too really wanna see a sort of series better than SonicX and more focused on the games' plot than anything else while giving us a decent continuity to the whole series.

Apparently you missed the part when I said the games barely have a continuity of their own with most of the stories being standalone. How can you give a Sonic show a continuity when the material its based on doesn't have a stable one? If you give it one, its not really Sonic anymore, its something with Sonic's name slapped on it.

[VO.SUPER]

@Blur

And wouldn't 6 eps per game be more than enough?

There's no need to have all stages of a game adapted faithfully or even at all, some of them only are in the games for different kinds of level design...

@Shadic:

Hence the need for ST to solve that mess once and for all. I too really wanna see a sort of series better than SonicX and more focused on the games' plot than anything else.

6 episodes for every game though? Each one is different in their own way, and there are way too many opportunities that could be missed by doing straight adaptations, which, as said, are freaking terrible.

Frankly, I think it's high time that the writers of Sonic the Hedgehog get off their high horses and develop a series bible, so that Sonic shows have material to work and assure longevity for the the product. It surely wouldn't waste too many resources to develop such.

[RDNexus]

@Shadic:

Until ShTH, not counting Heroes, the games kind of had a continuity, after that things started to crumble...

@Blur:

I at least enjoyed the way they adapted the Adventure games in SonicX, and even without those extra stuff each of them had enough plot for the adaptation to go nicely. Heck, they even edited some stuff from the games' plot to give time to the extra stuff, which I hated.

I also think they should make something like that, with arts by ST's artist.

Edited January 5, 2012 by XRick

[Kuzu]

@Shadic:

Until ShTH, not counting Heroes, the games kind of had a continuity, after that things started to crumble...

Because the storyline was shit and that particular arc was over.

[VO.SUPER]

@Blur:

I at least enjoyed the way they adapted the Adventure games in SonicX, and even without those extra stuff each of them had enough plot for the adaptation to go nicely. Heck, they even edited some stuff from the games' plot to give time to the extra stuff, which I hated.

I also think they should make something like that, with arts by ST's artist.

Well opinions vary, as I hated those arcs and how skimpy they were with no gameplay to immerse me. All that happened for me was that the show brought to light how shallow the story was in those games.

[Dejablue]

Lol I was so sleepy last night. I forgot what I said. Something about not adapting certain games. But nevermind that. But I agree with something Visonary said. For the first few games in the series you'd need filler. Because theres really not much there to work with. Unless you're just making a mini series or somethin...

[RDNexus]

Well opinions vary, as I hated those arcs and how skimpy they were with no gameplay to immerse me. All that happened for me was that the show brought to light how shallow the story was in those games.

But then, what would gameplay help in the adaptation? In what would that contribute to the plot?

Just references to the stages and flashes of them while the characters go through them could be enough.

Lol I was so sleepy last night. I forgot what I said. Something about not adapting certain games. But nevermind that. But I agree with something Visonary said. For the first few games in the series you'd need filler. Because theres really not much there to work with. Unless you're just making a mini series or somethin...

I'll ask you the same that I asked the other two, have you seen this?

It's done by me but uses the most of what the games had of plot.

Edited January 5, 2012 by XRick

[VO.SUPER]

But then, what would gameplay help in the adaptation? In what would that contribute to the plot?

Just references to the stages and flashes of them while the characters go through them could be enough.

I'll ask you the same that I asked the other two, have you seen this?

It's done by me but uses the most of what the games had of plot.

That's not the point. Gameplay was really what kept me entertained by those arcs, because the gameplay allowed me to understand the emotions of certain situations and immersed me in the stories of the games (at least back when I was younger.) Take that away and I lose most of the immersion I had when I played those games. Essentially, it boils down to: Straight! Adaptations! Suck!

[RDNexus]

That's not the point. Gameplay was really what kept me entertained by those arcs, because the gameplay allowed me to understand the emotions of certain situations and immersed me in the stories of the games (at least back when I was younger.) Take that away and I lose most of the immersion I had when I played those games. Essentially, it boils down to: Straight! Adaptations! Suck!

Like I said, gameplay could be referred but only on an essential level for the story.

I wouldn't like to see the characters going through the stages like in a game...

Edited January 5, 2012 by XRick

[Space☆Tomoki]

Here's what I'd want in a new Sonic animated series:

-They take the Thundercats 2011 route with it; Written and Directed by Americans, but animated by a Japanese animation studio (and hopefully given a proper budget to produce good animation, so it won't end up horridly inconsistent like Sonic X...) and should be supervised by Sonic Team.

-As for art style, I would want something like the Sonic Riders opening.

-No "Flanderization". The characters should act the way they're supposed to, and no exaggeration of traits. I really hated this about the other shows and certain games.

-While it doesn't have to follow the games' storyline (I'd prefer an original storyline for a breath of fresh air and such), the setting (the world of this show) needs to be identical to the one in the games [Takes place on Earth (And have Sonic and Co. come from Earth, not some alternate dimension or whatever the hell they did for Sonic X), has locales from the games like South Island, Angel Island, Station Square, Spagonia, etc.], but should feel free to create new environments/locales if they want to in order to keep things fresh.

-No Archie/SatAM/Fleetway/Underground/Sonic X/etc.-exclusive characters UNLESS there's a crisis cross-over episode/arc where Sonic travels to an alternate universe or something.

-Tone: keep the stories light-hearted, whimsical, and action-oriented, but the plots should be character driven as well, however, they can still have darker moments in the series as long as it's not too dark. (In other words, no Shadow/06 levels of dark).

-If they make show-exclusive characters, make sure they're well-written enough to be likable. (I.E. No Chris Thorndyke-ish characters, no Mary-Sues, no God Mode Sues, no Author Avatars (unless it's just a cameo), etc.) They should have original designs and not be re-colors. I'd also rather not have an original character created to be an official character's love interest (I.E. No Sally/Cosmo-ish characters). And most importantly, they shouldn't steal the spotlight from the official characters.

That's all I got for now; I might come up with more later.

EDIT 1: -Music: It'd be awesome if they got some of the composers from the games (Jun Senoue, Tomoya Ohtani, Kenichi Tokoi, Fumie Kumatani, Mariko Nanba, Alex Makhlouf from Cash Cash, etc.) to compose the music for the series.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Spider-Man Noir

[Chaos Warp]

-No Archie/SatAM/Fleetway/Underground/Sonic X/etc.-exclusive characters UNLESS there's a crisis cross-over episode/arc where Sonic travels to an alternate universe or something.

I can actually see that working!

(SatAM Sonic and Game/Series Sonic's first meeting)

SatAM Sonic: Gee, you're awful tall and lanky. I'm FAR more radical then you!

Game/Series (Series Sonic should basically be a properly characterized Game Sonic) Sonic: Huh! Another faker! I've seen plenty of those before.

SatAm Sonic: Faker?! Way past uncool, man! I bet I could beat you in a race!

Game/Series Sonic: Yeah? Bring it on!

*Both Sonic's run off*

Sally: (Sighs): Even from another dimension, he's still the same old Sonic......

[Space☆Tomoki]

My ideal Characterization for a Sonic series; Let's start with the most important ones:

-Sonic: Storybook Series characterization (He's care-free, reckless, and snarky, but he's more mature (and possibly wiser) than he let's on and deeply cares about his friends and will always show compassion to those in need), with a touch of Colors/Generations characterization for how he interacts with Tails and Eggman (Sonic and Tails actually act like they're best buds, while he occasionally mocks Eggman whenever given the chance).

-Tails: A mix between his Sonic Battle and Colors/Generations portrayal. He's polite and can be somtimes bugged by Sonic's care-free nature and recklessness (Battle), but he actually acts like he's Sonic's best friend (Colors/Generations).

-Amy: A mix between her Adventure 1 and Sonic X portrayals would be ideal. She's a sweet and kind girl most of the time, but can have a bit of temper when provoked (It's hammer time!), but she cares deeply about her friends and will occasionally flirt/glomp and mess with Sonic when given the chance. Make her a bit of a big sister figure figure for Cream and maybe Tails, and maybe a little sister figure for Knuckles. Oh, and tone down (if not completely do away with) the creepy stalker fangirl thing, kthx.

-Knuckles: A mix between his Heroes and Battle portrayals. He's Sonic's Vitriolic Best bud (Type 2), who will often pick a fight with Sonic and mock/snark at him when given the chance, and can have a bit of a temper, is sometimes gullible (This trait should toned down compared to how often it's used in the games and Sonic X, however), but underneath it all he has a rock-solid friendship with Sonic and Tails, and will always help out when needed. Also, he has an Inferiority Superiority complex towards Sonic, as he secretly envies Sonic's freedom, care-free lifestyle, and popularity as a hero.

-Dr. Eggman: Unleashed/Colors/Generations characterization, please. He's the big bad, he has an enormous ego, and he's crazy awesome. He comes off as a silly guy, but is really a huge threat, etc. Maybe throw in Orbot and Cubot for good measure. He also needs to randomly disco dance at some point like in Sonic X. "NEEDS MORE EGGMAN, YOU SAY?" Lulz will ensue.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Spider-Man Noir

[Kuzu]

Ya know considering the series can barely handle anything beyond "Sonic fighting Eggman", I opt for a slice of life type of series with maybe an arc or two with Eggman as the main antagonist. Sonic X sucked at it because it tried to focus on Chris but nobody gave two shits about the little fucker, but with actual competence(lolno) I can this type of series working out.

A 26 episode series, first 13 are basic Slice of Life episodes focusing on the exploits of Sonic and co when not fighting Eggman, with maybe some villains of the week to add some form of action and conflict, a little character development to add some dimension to the characters. The next 13? Eggman comes back in full force with one of his grandest plans yet, and Sonic has to rally his friends to stop him, this season will be slightly more darker(but still light enough to maintain the same atmosphere) with the characters using what they've learned from the first 13 episodes to take down Eggman, culminating in a final showdown between Sonic & Eggman for control of the world, Eggman gets away, but the world is safe and life would carry on.

[VO.SUPER]

Like I said, gameplay could be referred but only on an essential level for the story.

I wouldn't like to see the characters going through the stages like in a game...

[Diogenes]

So instead of doing something productive else, I started writing up some ideas, taking from the games but acting as if they never existed.

Sonic: The hero. Cocky, cool, and completely unattached. No family, no friends, no home, no posessions but his plane. He's not exactly enthusiastic about getting involved with other people, but he can't bring himself to let people get hurt right in front of him, either. At first he doesn't understand why people insist on following him around, and several times attempts to ditch them or drive them off, but eventually he realizes how having friends has enriched his life.

Eggman: The villain. Eccentric and egotistical, brilliant but mad. He believes honestly that the world would run far better with him in charge, though the world bowing before him is certainly a nice bonus. He and Sonic have clashed before, but the battles are only going to get bigger with the legendary Chaos Emeralds at stake.

Tails: The sidekick. Young, book smart, but not very street smart. He's been picked on for both his mutant ass and for being kind of a dork in general, so he's got pretty low self esteem. He latches on to Sonic in spite of his protests (eventually with Sonic figuring he'll be moving on soon anyway). He ends up being kind of annoyingly devoted, following and copying Sonic and getting in his way, until Sonic tells him to quit being a pain and to find his own thing instead of just imitating. Tails eventually proves himself in some semiminor event, Sonic grudgingly admits the kid's not bad and can hang with him, at least for a little while.

Amy: The "love interest". A young girl caught up in the hype surrounding the cool blue dude who showed up out of nowhere to fight off Eggman's robots. At one point he ends up saving her directly, at which point her crush really takes off; she starts following him around, getting angry when he (quite understandably) tells her to buzz off, and in general stirring up that kind of selfish delusional drama. Eventually, though, her actions end up putting herself in danger again (maybe Eggman targets her specifically, maybe she just follows Sonic into danger), and this time Sonic ends up getting hurt protecting/rescuing her.

Setting: South Island, or possibly a string of islands, South Island being one of them. Environments range from modern cities (inhabited by both humans and animals) to untouched nature to ancient ruins, much as in the games. Legend says that the Chaos Emeralds rest on the island, a set of jewels of immense power blah blah you know this.

Story: Eggman's looking for the emeralds, causing trouble on the island(s) while doing so. Sonic ends up traveling to the island coincidentally, gets drawn into protecting it for as long as Eggman's causing trouble. He meets new "friends", beats up robots, and starts to uncover the mystery of the emeralds. Maybe pull a very (very) loose adaptation of Sonic 2 for the climax of the arc; basically just build up to the Death Egg being launched(?) and Sonic shutting it down. Season 2 can be an equally loose adaptation of S3&K, taking place largely on Angel Island, introducing Knuckles and Metal Sonic, and ending with the emeralds being collected and a Doomsday-esque fight. If the show somehow managed to continue past this, I'd probably jump to something vaguely reminiscent of SA2; not because of a particular preference for SA2 or a distaste for SA, but because I'm twisting everything out of shape and I think I could twist SA2 further out of shape (and to better effect) than I could SA, considering SA2 ends up largely ignoring the whole "evil twin" bit.

- I don't know man, can you really say that Sonic is set on Earth with a straight face?

Edited January 5, 2012 by Diogenes

[Space☆Tomoki]

Responses are in bold and underlined.

-I don't think Sonic Team as a whole needs to really show up, but I'd think it'd be best if the writing staff actually showed up to share their opinions and helped out with episodes. Writers are pretty much last minute when it comes to video games so they're plenty to spare.

-I didn't mean the whole Team, let me reiterate that statement: A few people from Sonic Team such as the writers, artists/art director of sorts, etc.

- Easy, just invite the artist of modern Sonic (can't remember his name -_-U) and let the Americans copy his style. (Key animation is still done in America from my knowledge and thus it's done.

- I think you're thinking of Yuji Uekawa. I guess that could work, if they hired the right animation studio and was given a proper budget and the right direction.

-Wholeheartedly!

- I don't know man, can you really say that Sonic is set on Earth with a straight face?

-Yes, yes I can. It's a fantasy Earth. Dragon Ball is set on Earth too, and it doesn't really resemble the Earth that we live on either.

With all the strange oddities popping and bopping around, that all around makes the concept of Earth all the odder. Then again, Mobius, and Sonic's dimension from X are "technically" Earth so why not that? I'm only saying this for the sake of immersion really.

-I'd rather it be more synchronized with the world of the games, mostly to avoid confusion and whatnot. It's not necessary to make Sonic come from another world. I think it would make the transition from the show to the games for newcomers much easier. Just make it a world where Humans and talking animal people co-existing is normal; The Looney Tunes Show is a good example of this, actually.

-Turtles Forever makes this a yes.

- Indeed!

- Disney movies and Dob Bluth are some of the best examples! Of course, it wouldn't hurt to have a little bit of heartwarming aspects too.

-Of course! Heartwarming moments are always welcome in Sonic-related media.

- Well, if they ever did write show-exclusives there would have to be more of a balance to prevent them from stealing moments that rightfully belong to major characters, overshadowing them for longer than an episode or two, or being completely worthless to the story. That's the big problem with new characters though.

-Yeah, it'd be quite the challenge for whoever would write it, but it can be done.

I agree wholeheartedly with just about everything really.

-I'm glad you do!

Edited January 5, 2012 by Spider-Man Noir