Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[SenEDDtor Missile]

9 hours ago, precita said:

No, Shudo would have had him give up being a trainer.

 

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

It had a rather bizarre finale planned that sounds like something out of 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' with the Pokemon becoming independent from their trainers and Ash realising the ambition of 'Pokemon Master' was a pipe dream he grown out of.

Wait, really? Source?

[E-122-Psi]

It's one of those things almost every fan talks about and says is completely true but I can never find the official source. I can find lots of places with quotes however:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/general-pokémon-anime-discussion.3469495/page-11

1 hour ago, precita said:

The main reason the show is bogged down is Team Rocket and Brock staying after the original series ended. If they must keep Ash around, the least they could have done was gotten rid of TR and Brock like they did with Misty at the end of Johto. There running gags had long gotten stale even back then, yet they made us sit through them for a decade after.

The problem is the writers don't know how to develop characters past their initial episodes. None of the characters from Kanto developed any further in Johto besides a change in Pokemon.

Team Rocket started to get stale around Hoenn, where they just became 24/7 incompetent losers. They had also degraded into those type of villains where they were so pitiful that their comeuppances started to come off as painful and semi depressing.

Around Sinnoh I think they found a better edge to them, since while they were still incompetent bad guys, half the time they'd be punching clocks, they'd take part in contests and events, and unlike the previous seasons were allowed to win some of them (there was something humorous and awesome about them going in costumes and no one knowing they'd just got their ass kicked by Team Rocket). They also got more talents spotlighted, it was when the 'Cut Lex Luthor A Check' shtick with them really got developed. One episode lampshaded how easily Meowth could become a TV celebrity if he was willing to ditch the gang.

Unova and Kalos decided to keep them fresher by making them less full time characters, and letting them be slightly more competent. Kalos still sticks to this concept Sinnoh made for them though. It's getting to the point they could be experts in nearly everything BUT Pokemon stealing.

I think this was something that added well to the formula. Pokemon has this recurring 'existential crisis' plot line with the cast, always trying to find a purpose, maybe that's why May, the first character to have saw most of the way through, seems one of the first truly developed characters. If Ash and Team Rocket must stay forever and not find their goal in life, I admit this is an amusing way to make it entertaining, just seeing them develop and gain more accomplishments despite always being treated as an amateur in their life goal. I mean, Ash has helped out nearly every Pokemon out there, he's even saved the planet how many times. He could be considered a Pokemon Master in every regard BUT the capturing and battling part.

[precita]

The thing is most of the characters run out of things to do after about 3 years. Each saga is always 150-200 episodes long, so of course the characters are going to get stale over time. In Brock's case it was beyond awful because he stayed for 4 generations and over 600+ episodes, when in reality he should have been done away with at the same time Misty was, or at least by the end of AG at the latest.

Misty was in the anime for 5 years, but her relevance dipped after the first 3 years. After the very first season of Johto, Misty faded away into the background for the rest of it besides a few brief episodes towards the tail-end.

May and Dawn had 4 years, but their stories went on throughout the entire saga. If you look through the episode lists, May and Dawn's Contests arc went on right up to the end of their respective regions, stopping just before Ash's final league/challenges.

Iris was only around for 3 years, but it seems she ran out of things to do only 2 years in. The last year of BW was terrible.

Serena has so far been around for 3 years, and with Sun/Moon games announced this might be the end of her.

[Kuzu]

Its nice of you two to migrate from Tvtropes to here :V

[precita]

Heh, I'm in more places than that. I just find it weird people continually wax nostalgia about the early years, when the writing style they're talking about mostly died around 2001.

I always said the moment the anime jumped the shark was when Charizard and Squirtle left Ash's roster in early Johto. Right when Ash's Kanto starters split up is when the decline of the Johto saga started. That's when all the tedious fillers started coming in full force, the GS ball was dropped, and the show lost its adventure/humor aspect of the Kanto saga and went into a repetitive rut. Also Misty's temper/personality was completed subdued around that point as well making her a less interesting character.

Sure there were still some good and funny episodes in Johto from time to time, but that's around the point we realized the show would never be the same again. Only the oldest pokemon fans will remember this, but there was a huge backlash against the Johto seasons back in 2001-2002 when they were originally airing. Many people originally quit the anime halfway into Johto, and didn't even know Misty left until AG had already been airing well into its first year.

[E-122-Psi]

Bah, I'm not as shrewd as I had hoped then.

I will admit I only go through certain episodes of each era, there's 100-200 episodes each era and a ton of them are filler (though some of those have good character limelight).

I definitely think that Pokemon is one of those shows that struggles with it's protagonists at times, and I think that can be a big detriment. The creator even admitted Ash was supposed to be kinda bland compared to his rivals and Team Rocket. He and Misty had a fun dynamic when the show started, but it quickly fizzled out after one season. Why should we take interest in Ash's quest if he himself has so few foibles to make him rootable?

Best Wishes onward seemed like it caught on to this and tried to make the heroes vibrant enough to hold episodes by themselves, but even then a lot of times they're mostly the more cutesy goody goody characters while the enemy characters have all the charisma. There's a reason so many root for Team Rocket, and even they are often too repetitive to hold the series together.

[Soniman]

*walks in*

just leaving this video of Ash almost beating Diantha here

*walks out*

[QuantumEdge]

This must be the season for Ash to win the league.  I mean he's finally understood how to win it: bring your own brand of bull crud to floor your opponents (but my god, it's some awesome bull crud, I'll give it that) and take the trophy.  This battle teases a league victory more than any other battle, so it has to mean something.

[E-122-Psi]

My only complaint is that this power up is at risk of being ridiculously OP. It feels like it's only weakness is that Ash can't fully sustain it yet. If he bulked up a little this would have been a complete curb stomp with Ash-Greninja not suffering a single hit once linked. Ash, who constantly was no match for Champions and Elite battlers, suddenly being untouchable simply because he now has some special power feels a bit cheap.

Still seeing a Mega Evolution with 'dodge' spam, let alone a champion's, being capable of getting toasted, is a step up in story telling.

And poor Team Rocket. They were in such a good medium for most of XY, now they're pretty much back to incompetent gags like in Hoenn and Sinnoh.

[Dantemustdie00]

Honestly I have no idea why they even bothered including Team Rocket in that episode in the first place, when it's any other important match for Ash in this series, they don't appear, but NOW they appear, seriously, I don't get it, that was a mood killer in an otherwise fantastic episode.

 

Still doubt Ash is gonna win the league through, theirs problemly gonna be another "Tobias" situation blocking him, either that or Shota will beat him, which I will accept if it happens.

[Agie]

Yeah, the day Ash wins the league is the day I become a millionaire. Which would be nice, but probably won't happen.

[Kuzu]

On 5/6/2016 at 6:36 AM, E-122-Psi said:

My only complaint is that this power up is at risk of being ridiculously OP. It feels like it's only weakness is that Ash can't fully sustain it yet. If he bulked up a little this would have been a complete curb stomp with Ash-Greninja not suffering a single hit once linked. Ash, who constantly was no match for Champions and Elite battlers, suddenly being untouchable simply because he now has some special power feels a bit cheap.

Still seeing a Mega Evolution with 'dodge' spam, let alone a champion's, being capable of getting toasted, is a step up in story telling.

And poor Team Rocket. They were in such a good medium for most of XY, now they're pretty much back to incompetent gags like in Hoenn and Sinnoh.

Well its not really any different from Infernape curb stomping everything once it mastered Blaze, and it didn't help Ash win the league in Sinnoh either.

[Big Panda]

Since more info about Sun and Moon is starting to come out, now's probably a better time as any to start talking about how the anime will tackle it.

One prediction I'm pretty certain about is that, considering the pattern we've seen with Unova and Kalos, Ash's Alola journey will emulate Sinnoh in a lot of ways. Specifically, Ash will be obtaining two of the regions starters, namely Popplio and Litten, with Rowlet being obtained by one of his companions (most likely the female). They could even go a step further by having a Pokemon that Ash caught toward the end of his previous journey tagging along with him and Pikachu somehow.

[Tails spin]

I can only see a tag along pokemon other than pikachu happening only if it gets an evolution next gen.

Plus Clement, Bonnie and Serena need a proper send off. If not they will be the worst companions in terms of length. At least Cilan and Iris got an extended arc in Unova and travels through the Declore Islands.

[Big Panda]

4 minutes ago, Tails spin said:

I can only see a tag along pokemon other than pikachu happening only if it gets an evolution next gen.

Plus Clement, Bonnie and Serena need a proper send off. If not they will be the worst companions in terms of length. At least Cilan and Iris got an extended arc in Unova and travels through the Declore Islands.

Weeeell...Best Wishes was 142 episodes long, and XY currently has 122 (including ones announced). XY has five more months to top BW.

It'll be a close call.

EDIT: to compare, BW's 122nd episode also aired roughly five months before XY came out. There's still time!

[Mania Pipe]

On 5/6/2016 at 0:49 AM, Soniman said:

*walks in*

just leaving this video of Ash almost beating Diantha here

*walks out*

As great as this seems, something tells me we're not gonna see Ash take on the Champion ever again, or even beat the Kalos League for that matter, since the writers and studio to cause Ash to lose yet again. But who knows, maybe he'll actually win the league this time and head to the Champions League (something that should've happened in Sinnoh).

3 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Since more info about Sun and Moon is starting to come out, now's probably a better time as any to start talking about how the anime will tackle it.

One prediction I'm pretty certain about is that, considering the pattern we've seen with Unova and Kalos, Ash's Alola journey will emulate Sinnoh in a lot of ways. Specifically, Ash will be obtaining two of the regions starters, namely Popplio and Litten, with Rowlet being obtained by one of his companions (most likely the female). They could even go a step further by having a Pokemon that Ash caught toward the end of his previous journey tagging along with him and Pikachu somehow.

Eh, I'm really not looking forward to the anime version of Sun/Moon since it's gonna be YET ANOTHER adventure of Ash...

[-Robin-]

If he's gonna challenge Diantha again or win the league for that matter he better do it fast. We've got episode plots up to mid June and the new games, which the anime coincides a new series with on or near the same day, comes out November 18th. That's 5 months to get it done - aka, 20 episodes.

 

20 episodes to cram everything together to get ready for Gen VII. It doesn't look good.

[Tails spin]

51 minutes ago, -Robin- said:

If he's gonna challenge Diantha again or win the league for that matter he better do it fast. We've got episode plots up to mid June and the new games, which the anime coincides a new series with on or near the same day, comes out November 18th. That's 5 months to get it done - aka, 20 episodes.

 

20 episodes to cram everything together to get ready for Gen VII. It doesn't look good.

Or this could possibly be the series that Ash's wins and Sun and Moon gets a new protagonist for the anime.

Oh who am I kidding.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

On 5/6/2016 at 0:49 AM, Soniman said:

*walks in*

just leaving this video of Ash almost beating Diantha here

*walks out*

this is just

hype

holy smokes guys

I really need to catch up on this now, hoooooo boy

[Big Panda]

I just had a thought:

If you didn't already know, the Pokemon franchise as a whole has been given a real run for their money in Japan in recent years, because of Yo-Kai Watch's boom in popularity.

Pokemon has been doing a lot to rise above its new rival, most noteably the 18th movie and their orgy of legendaries.

So consider this: what if they're making it look like Ash actually has a real chance of winning the Kalos League...because that's actually the plan?

What if, in order for the anime to grab audiences away from YKW, they're gonna break the formula of a lifetime and have Ash finally win and move on, allowing for a new protagonist to take over? That'd definately pull in viewers.

[8ther]

So of the 3 Gen VIII starters, who do you think will be the Squrtle/Totodile/Piplup/Oshawott/Chespin of next season, aka the starter that's so cute and marketable that the writers will never let it evolve?

My money's on Pipplio ._ .

[Big Panda]

26 minutes ago, CD Sanic said:

So of the 3 Gen VIII starters, who do you think will be the Squrtle/Totodile/Piplup/Oshawott/Chespin of next season, aka the starter that's so cute and marketable that the writers will never let it evolve?

My money's on Pipplio ._ .

That'd break from the potential Sinnoh emulation, since both the starters Ash got in Sinnoh reached their final forms.

[E-122-Psi]

16 hours ago, Tails spin said:

Or this could possibly be the series that Ash's wins and Sun and Moon gets a new protagonist for the anime.

Oh who am I kidding.

The thing is if Ash goes, then their mascot Pikachu goes.

And if that specific Pikachu goes, then Team Rocket goes.

And if Team Rocket goes, then half the Japanese fan base goes.

Besides Ash winning doesn't necessarily mean the end to his journey. He won the anime exclusive Orange Islands league and kept travelling.

42 minutes ago, CD Sanic said:

So of the 3 Gen VIII starters, who do you think will be the Squrtle/Totodile/Piplup/Oshawott/Chespin of next season, aka the starter that's so cute and marketable that the writers will never let it evolve?

My money's on Pipplio ._ .

Gen VII was sneaky. Fennekin could still be evolved since Braixen had a cute little anime girl look about it, hence the showcases.

[Tails spin]

2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

The thing is if Ash goes, then their mascot Pikachu goes.

And if that specific Pikachu goes, then Team Rocket goes.

And if Team Rocket goes, then half the Japanese fan base goes.

Besides Ash winning doesn't necessarily mean the end to his journey. He won the anime exclusive Orange Islands league and kept travelling.

Gen VII was sneaky. Fennekin could still be evolved since Braixen had a cute little anime girl look about it, hence the showcases.

It been debated way before. No one remembers Ash when the Orange League. Heck. I think no one outside of Pumello Island knows he won.

[Big Panda]

2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

The thing is if Ash goes, then their mascot Pikachu goes.

Just give the new protagonist a Pikachu of their own.