Pokémon Heart Gold and Soul Silver Discussion

[Thirsty Pocket]

^ for me, I use AR, but only to rematch trainers I want as many times as I want. It'd be easier if I had a guide though. I don't know what trainers carry what aside from the Ace trainer on route 1 or the cloyster user in Misty's gym.

Pikachu got to level 100 last night. No big boost. For reference, here's it's info.

Female Lvl 100 Sassy Nature sturdy body Met at lvl 12

HP 213

Attck 163

Dfns 114

Sp. Atck 169

Sp. Dfns 122

Speed 172

Thunderbolt Iron Tail Volt tackle Quick Attack ( To be changed )

Static

holding a Light Ball

If that's awful, I'm going to be very... grumpy. It took too long to get a volt tackle Pikachu on the Poke Walker... I couldn't worry about natures. I don't want the BEST Pikachu in the world, but one that could stand a chance in a Pokemon Stadium scenario: Pitted against NPCs of equal level... or friends who dont do the whole overly competitive stuff.

[Blue Blood]

I don't understand it. Getting a max EV/IV Pokemon requires no skill, just time and the minimal of understanding. If you can replicate something identical then there's no harm. Cheating passed the stat limitations and making otherwise impossible movesets isn't fair so naturally that's banned. Everything else is the same though. Let's say my prized Pokemon was a shiny Nidoqueen with the least beneficial nature and other values. It would be pointless to use it competitively, but a ARed/Sharked copy with a better set of values would be great. I shouldn't use that though because I wasn't lucky enough to come across it in the wild?

Bull. Shit.

(For the record, I've never battled competitively and never intend to- the prospect does not interest me)

Edited April 19, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Yong]

I shouldn't use that though because I wasn't lucky enough to come across it in the wild?

Bull. Shit.

That's pretty much how Nintendo wants you to play the game anyway.

[Iceman Etika]

Well pretty much, even if you're not a fan of competitive battle, don't frown upon it, because even if you think a lot of people don't, actually, a hell of a lot of people do, even off of Shoddy. The following is a screenie I took five minutes ago from Smogon forums where everyone plays competitively.

That's about 1000 people that would disagree with what anyone says about competitive battle not being appealing. It's the advanced art, and art which I am in myself, and honestly, even though it can be rough and frustrating, it extends this games life soooooooooooo much farther than beating Red.

It's even better if you have wifi, because competitive play is even easier, and you wouldn't even have to use shoddy battle. Either way, my final point is this. Don't bash something repeatedly and state your opinion as fact, because there's always equal play on both sides, especially regarding video games. ._.

EDIT: Dammit, the pic broke the tables. .__. Ah well! This page will only take 1 more post until moving to the next new one anyways. ;D

[Blue Blood]

Huh? I wasn't saying there's anything wrong with competitive battling. I don't like it, so what? It's just the controversy surrounding 'legit hacks' that I don't get. What on Earth is wrong with them? And if you're using one of the PC based battling systems, then who's to say you really have such a Pokémon?

[Saint Nathan]

I have many friends who competitively battle. They EV train, get their moves and Pokemon matched up perfectly. All that shit.

I just give mine a Lucky Egg, level 'em to 100 quickly, then teach them the strongest (and most accurate) moves I can with one I can just spam.

Seeing as within the turn they Swords Dance or anything else stat boosting, I OHKO or do MASSIVE amounts of damage, I'm not seeing why you would even bother.

[ovarloard]

Huh? I wasn't saying there's anything wrong with competitive battling. I don't like it, so what? It's just the controversy surrounding 'legit hacks' that I don't get. What on Earth is wrong with them? And if you're using one of the PC based battling systems, then who's to say you really have such a Pokémon?

It's not like that.

Competitive battling doesn't restrict you to using whatever you have in your games... it opens up doors leading to missed opportunities by Nintendo (at least, in some people's eyes). It's completely separate from what you have in the games; it's all about strategy. You choose the best Pokémon for your team and purpose, and you can choose to teach it almost ANY move it can legitimately learn.

[Thirsty Pocket]

I'm not harshing on competitive battling. But I loved Pokemon back before these whole EV things came to be. Now it's not enough to train your Pokemon anymore. You have to train them a specific way, but make sure they have a specific personality. God help those who don't have an internet access to constantly look up just what pokemon they should throw back or breed with something else and have the offspring only battle X number of the Pokemon X. I can't take that much complication, but I still love Pokemon, but I don't stand a chance at online play. This from Nintendo, the company that prides itself on equality (At least since Wii came about).

Again, nothing wrong with competitive battling, I'm just an old fossil that feels very alienated to todays Pokemon fans, I'm missing out on online play for sure (It would have been epic if Pokemon STADIUM had it. Then I might stand a chance ) But given the whole "event only Pokemon" scenario, it seems gamefreak thrives off alienation... /boo hoo

[Pelly <3's U]

EVs have been around since the first pokemon games. They were overhauled in gen 3 (which was the game that added the most substantial things to competative battling really) but I never understand why people think EVs have suddenly ruined the game. Like I said before the only place you need them in game is higher levels of the battle tower/similar facilities. Other then that they're used in PVP matches, and you can bypass the whole 'I hate EV training' thing by using shoddy battle.

They have in no way affected the game for the majority of people.

[Blue Blood]

EVs have been around since the first pokemon games. They were overhauled in gen 3 (which was the game that added the most substantial things to competative battling really) but I never understand why people think EVs have suddenly ruined the game. Like I said before the only place you need them in game is higher levels of the battle tower/similar facilities. Other then that they're used in PVP matches, and you can bypass the whole 'I hate EV training' thing by using shoddy battle.

They have in no way affected the game for the majority of people.

Indeed. I still don't understand why 'legit hacks' can be banned...

[Remy]

because if you don't waste hours grininding you don't deserve to have fun. >: (

[Iceman Etika]

It basically just takes a huge shit on the people who actually spent time and effort working on their Pokemon who don't have the money/resources to purchase a cheating device. It's like jobs in a way. The regular text represents a real life scenario and the italic'd represents it translated to Pokemon terms.

Lets say you've been working at a company for 5 years(working on your pokemon team for months) and are expecting some type of promotion or something(Expecting your team to do very well in battle).

Well a new guy comes along who knows someone at the top of the company(Some 12 year old kid purchased a Action Replay/GameShark) And that person is boosted higher than you in promotions while you remain where you are. (The 12 year old kid hacks perfect pokemon and kicks your ass royally with em).

It makes you frustrated because you've been working so hard and can't move up in promotions, but this new guy can without any experience at all.(You don't have the money or access to a cheating device and the kid just basically created a perfect team in less than 5 minutes, outdoing what you've been working on for months, simply with the push of a button.)

There's nothing saying that the previous isn't allowed, but it's extremely unfair and is in very bad taste. You're going to get many people that object to it, that's for certain.

[Conando]

I never really got competitive Pokemon, so I suppose I'm an old fossil as well. To each their own, though. I'm content facing off against friends. Anyway, Iceman, I don't think it's actually possible to create an ultimate team with AR, there aren't any codes that allow such things. You're thinking of Pokesav. Which is frowned upon, yeah.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Hero Of Fate

[Candescence]

Well. I just got SoulSilver. About bloody time already. Let's see how this goes, then!

[Pelly <3's U]

Indeed. I still don't understand why 'legit hacks' can be banned...

I think the thing is, for people who aren't into the whole 'legitimately training' their teams in game, it's more assumed they to go to a simulator like shoddy battle.

When you're battling with the actual game, I think it's assumed you chose that because you're into training your team /entirely/ legitly.

So there are options for both. I guess the people that gravitate towards non simulator battling are the ones who look down upon just magically being able to create a team, since it goes against their idea of the spirit of pokemon.

[Rusty Spy]

Seeing as within the turn they Swords Dance or anything else stat boosting, I OHKO or do MASSIVE amounts of damage, I'm not seeing why you would even bother.

Believe me, a well trained/built team would easily throw out a Pokemon that has really good Defense/S.Defense to absorb your hit and set up on you.

[Saint Nathan]

Believe me, a well trained/built team would easily throw out a Pokemon that has really good Defense/S.Defense to absorb your hit and set up on you.

I don't use Pokemon who have a weakness to a certain type, and they've all got decent Attack and Defense, both normal and Sp. so I don't usually have trouble. I usually let my opponent know what Pokemon I have and at what level also, as long as they'll tell me, so we can seriously dish shit out.

Even so, I haven't lost a match yet, came REALLY close once, but never lost.

[ovarloard]

I don't use Pokemon who have a weakness to a certain type, and they've all got decent Attack and Defense, both normal and Sp. so I don't usually have trouble. I usually let my opponent know what Pokemon I have and at what level also, as long as they'll tell me, so we can seriously dish shit out.

Even so, I haven't lost a match yet, came REALLY close once, but never lost.

Maybe your friends aren't REAL competitive battlers. I used to think I was good; I would battle my friends and never lose. Then, I began playing competitively, thinking I would do pretty well, and I was obliterated by real EV trained teams. It was this moment I became obsessed with competitive battling and EVing and all that good stuff.

[Saint Nathan]

Maybe your friends aren't REAL competitive battlers. I used to think I was good; I would battle my friends and never lose. Then, I began playing competitively, thinking I would do pretty well, and I was obliterated by real EV trained teams. It was this moment I became obsessed with competitive battling and EVing and all that good stuff.

They all EV train, and I think 3 of them have actually gone into tournaments, never won, but they did pretty well overall.

[Blue Blood]

*Why legit hacks aren't fair*

Essentially then, because some people have to grind, everyone should? Not buying it. Grinding and EV training isn't a skill (like you'd need for a promotion), it's just the result of free time. What if your team isn't as good as you thought it was in the planning stage? Should you spend yet more time not playing the battles you want to so that you can train? The way I see it, there's more than just one way to get an adequately trained lv100. When the eventual outcome is identical, it doesn't matter what method you use. Grit your* teeth and accept that some people want to play the game differently.

And shoddy battle is PC based, basically another game.

*not you personally

Edited April 20, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Saint Nathan]

Essentially then, because some people have to grind, everyone should?

Well if you're fair and not a cheating asshole, then yes, that's exactly what it is.

[ovarloard]

Essentially then, because some people have to grind, everyone should? Not buying it. Grinding and EV training isn't a skill (like you'd need for a promotion), it's just the result of free time. What if your team isn't as good as you thought it was in the planning stage? Should you spend yet more time not playing the battles you want to so that you can train? The way I see it, there's more than just one way to get an adequately trained lv100. When the eventual outcome is identical, it doesn't matter what method you use. Grit your* teeth and accept that some people want to play the game differently.

And shoddy battle is PC based, basically another game.

*not you personally

There's more than one way to make $100. You can earn it, or you can steal it - the point being that the ends don't necessarily justify the means in Pokémon.

[Blue Blood]

We're talking Pokémon battles here. Nobody is getting harmed by opting for the faster route. You wouldn't even know unless they told you. =P

Edited April 20, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Saint Nathan]

We're talking Pokémon battles here. Nobody is getting harmed by opting for the faster route. You wouldn't even know unless they told you. =P

Your logic is massively flawed. What you're essentially saying is that if we were competing for something, nobody would be harmed if you did no work and got it done faster. But yes, I WOULD be harmed by it, not only would it be unfair, but it would essentially deny me my chance.

Do you understand that it's cheating? It's wrong in an actual competition? Hacking in Pokemon is like having a literal ace up your sleeve in poker.

[Iceman Etika]

Yeah, you can cheat as much as you want, but don't bring it into competition play where it's the standard for everyone to work hard. It's so frigging difficult to get a Pokemon with the exact nature, gender, egg moves, and decent IV's. A lot of times, the IVs are never perfect, but at least close enough to what I need em to be.

I rode through Solaceon Town so many times that I can feel when I bump into a wall, and turn around and go the other way without looking at the screen. ._.