How Does Sonic's World Work? TailsTube's First Episode Finally Gives an Answer

You know, I'm alright with hypothetical future members of the Robotnik family not necessarily being as egg-like as Eggman himself is. There's already precedent for that with Maria and SA2's version of Gerald (who was thinner than his later appearances), after all.

That said, as much as I personally do like her, I wouldn't ever expect Eggette because she's a fan character and there's a whole legal can of worms there even if Sega wanted to use her, which is unlikely in the first place. (That said, nothing's stopping them from doing a similar concept even if it's not that exact character, per se)

I know she's not but...

I can't unsee Sarah from the OVA when I look at her.

Or if you want a really deep cut. The fighter pilot from that old origin idea.

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Man I hope not, that design doesn't look Eggman-y at all.

I wasn't so much suggesting a need for an actual Robotnik family member so much as a character to work with him and act as a foil (and to add to the, like, two female villains this series has ever had). Or fuck, just more people wearing the uniform. I like the uniform.

26 minutes ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

I know she's not but...

I can't unsee Sarah from the OVA when I look at her.

Or if you want a really deep cut. The fighter pilot from that old origin idea.

I gotta say, I don't see it. I mean, she is a woman wearing gloves and a jacket that cuts off at the elbows, but there isn't really anything else there as far as I can tell.

People have noticed that the lighting of the Sonic Generation scene they mentioned when talking about Amy is very different. Not only the lighting, but there's also a blur effect in the background. Might a Sonic Generation "Ultimate" be coming?

I don't think it makes sense for them to Photoshop a screenshot of Generations only, specially considering they didn't do the same with the footage and screenshots from other games.

Well, the new lighting looks way better, brings more depth. I hope a Sonic Generation remaster doesn't have the same issues as Colors Ultimate. But I would love to have an Unleashed remaster instead.

The Tails Tube screenshot:

The original scene:

Posted By: Greatsong1

Glad Sega has finally confirmed what Flynn ‘hinted’ to us last year.

Also yeah, I wanna know who that purple haired woman is.

XD I find people's passion against the two-world concept a bit out-there. For me, the concept of a "canon" only matters insofar as actually being used. Continuity matters whenever the story itself needs to build on other stories to make sense, and that's not entirely feasible for a series that spans 30+ years across a dozen gameplay styles. Does there being one world or two really influence the events of Sonic Unleashed? Probably not, Sonic's clearly around enough for nobody to bat an eye at his presence. Nobody really needs Business Dad to tell them that a character whose backstory they will never reveal is from one world or another.

Sonic Team can use this version of lore, or that version of lore or whatever. If they want to continue making games with lots of cutscenes and dialog, then I just want them to make a story that actually succeeds at what it sets out to do. If it wants to be full of story, then it needs to have real characters that can make mistakes and grow. If it wants to be light on story, then go easy on the cutscenes. If it wants to be a comedy, it has to know how to execute on telling a joke. If it wants to take things a bit more seriously, then it has to build earned tension and have an arc. If it wants to be standalone, then it shouldn't throw in twenty characters that don't meaningfully add to what's going on. If it wants to tie to other games, then it has to do so in meaningful ways. Choose a style that makes for the story, not what has become an obligation to documentation, presentation, or value.

27 minutes ago, GX Echidna said:

XD I find people's passion against the two-world concept a bit out-there. For me, the concept of a "canon" only matters insofar as actually being used. Continuity matters whenever the story itself needs to build on other stories to make sense, and that's not entirely feasible for a series that spans 30+ years across a dozen gameplay styles. Does there being one world or two really influence the events of Sonic Unleashed? Probably not, Sonic's clearly around enough for nobody to bat an eye at his presence. Nobody really needs Business Dad to tell them that a character whose backstory they will never reveal is from one world or another.

Sonic Team can use this version of lore, or that version of lore or whatever. If they want to continue making games with lots of cutscenes and dialog, then I just want them to make a story that actually succeeds at what it sets out to do. If it wants to be full of story, then it needs to have real characters that can make mistakes and grow. If it wants to be light on story, then go easy on the cutscenes. If it wants to be a comedy, it has to know how to execute on telling a joke. If it wants to take things a bit more seriously, then it has to build earned tension and have an arc. If it wants to be standalone, then it shouldn't throw in twenty characters that don't meaningfully add to what's going on. If it wants to tie to other games, then it has to do so in meaningful ways. Choose a style that makes for the story, not what has become an obligation to documentation, presentation, or value.

...OK. Just happy we don't have to play this endless tug of war anymore as far as the games are concerned.  

In hindsight, yeah, it was really pointless to be upset about something that the games never acknowledged. It's one less thing to consider though. 

Separating human countries from the talking animal islands really helps with world-building and solves several canon issues. I really enjoyed the many references to Sonic Unleashed and the short nod to SATAM.

I don't think that it even affected much "creativity" in itself, as I wouldn't call the "lack of human" anything of a real issues compared to the other that the game had post-2008. Especially as human are really replaçable by mobian-type character, and that until Forces they didn't even really had one (and that even in the game, humans were often mostly relegated to the "big games"). The only one would be the lack of GUN in Sonic Forces, but honestly I'm not sure that the game would have been able to handle having one other story element in the first place lol.

So honestly, it was mostly a non-subject, especially as it was kinda sure that it was just a stuff of the moment that would change again. And they'll certainly go back in the backstage in a while, and come back later, etc. IThere is no "never again" in an IP that is made of "changing all the time to adapt current trends", IMO. Especially when the last era was made of "going back to the classics". Now we're coming in an era where it's the 2000 that were 20 years old.

t was mostly a "Sonic nerd subject", as it was only something that was in our hyperspecialized circles.

But removing it was a really good idea (especially as it makes Sonic fans think that they've "won", which will make it easy to accept things to a lot of people, like with the first movie that managed to be really liked by a lot of fans while being mostly decent), now I hope they're smart and will use the positivity created by this changes to push the differences that Frontiers will have with the previous games. It would be the perfect time to a small trailer of Frontiers, if they were kinda-checky-but-smart.

Good to know two worlds is dead. But that just leaves one question, if the humans live on continents then where the hell was GUN during forces? Oh yeah that’s right, bad writing.

Budget problems, GUN couldn't continue operating due to funding issues, like the UNIT in Doctor Who in latest seasons.

More seriously, if they get back to humans continent in IDW, that's something that could be very interesting to talk about, and it could be a way to get back GUN to being not fully heroïc like they did post Shadow, making them more "ambiguous" again, maybe with Sonic being rightfully angry for the lack of help, and GUN saying that they protected their people first.

6 hours ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

I know she's not but...

I can't unsee Sarah from the OVA when I look at her.

Is that just because she has a hair clip that could be mistaken for a cat ear at a glance? Cause the two aren't anything alike.

Not using concepts for the sake of it...isn't bad writing.

Uh, GUN is in Forces. Or, someone is. Shadow is on a mission with Rouge and Omega...from someone. They had orders.

All SEGA/Sonic Team would have to do is say "GUN was powerless against Eggman"...and like, they basically were in SA2 anyway, so it's almost a given. You can say their negligence in doing so is bad writing, but if it's that insignificant a thing, it's kind of a minor nitpick to get upset about.

3 hours ago, Johnny Boy said:

Good to know two worlds is dead. But that just leaves one question, if the humans live on continents then where the hell was GUN during forces? Oh yeah that’s right, bad writing.

Well, we dunno. Perhaps they cut a deal with the Empire to stay in power whilst funding Eggman's campaign against Sonic (a la Vichy France), causing mass protests in the UF and other human territories to those thinking that Eggy would probably target them next once dealing with the Islanders. Presumably, when Eggman tried dropping his fake Sun on the earth, mass riots ensued worldwide and G.U.N. was swept from power for good after Sonic's victory was confirmed, with Shadow now working for just a remnant that otherwise has no affiliation.

Whenever GUN's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's GUN?"

Posted By: Endrogg

Dinner recipies ‘for’ Chao, right? They’re not…right?

Who do you think the guest character will be next episode?

8 hours ago, GX Echidna said:

XD I find people's passion against the two-world concept a bit out-there. For me, the concept of a "canon" only matters insofar as actually being used. Continuity matters whenever the story itself needs to build on other stories to make sense, and that's not entirely feasible for a series that spans 30+ years across a dozen gameplay styles. Does there being one world or two really influence the events of Sonic Unleashed? Probably not, Sonic's clearly around enough for nobody to bat an eye at his presence. Nobody really needs Business Dad to tell them that a character whose backstory they will never reveal is from one world or another.

Sonic Team can use this version of lore, or that version of lore or whatever. If they want to continue making games with lots of cutscenes and dialog, then I just want them to make a story that actually succeeds at what it sets out to do. If it wants to be full of story, then it needs to have real characters that can make mistakes and grow. If it wants to be light on story, then go easy on the cutscenes. If it wants to be a comedy, it has to know how to execute on telling a joke. If it wants to take things a bit more seriously, then it has to build earned tension and have an arc. If it wants to be standalone, then it shouldn't throw in twenty characters that don't meaningfully add to what's going on. If it wants to tie to other games, then it has to do so in meaningful ways. Choose a style that makes for the story, not what has become an obligation to documentation, presentation, or value.

Influences the continuity of a lot of games. There are a lot of plot holes because of the two-world thing, but Sonic Forces confirmed that Sonic Adventure is still canon because we see Chaos. Talking about Unleashed, why the 7 Chaos emerald is related to light gaia if they are from Sonic's planet not the humans' planet? A lot of unnecessary inconsistencies that didn't need to exist.

5 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Talking about Unleashed, why the 7 Chaos emerald is related to light gaia if they are from Sonic's planet not the humans' planet?

We don't know where the emeralds come from, and they're often found in some bizarre extradimensional void. Why couldn't they have appeared on Earth just as easily and just as often as on Sonic's world?

27 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Influences the continuity of a lot of games. There are a lot of plot holes because of the two-world thing, but Sonic Forces confirmed that Sonic Adventure is still canon because we see Chaos. Talking about Unleashed, why the 7 Chaos emerald is related to light gaia if they are from Sonic's planet not the humans' planet? A lot of unnecessary inconsistencies that didn't need to exist.

Those plot holes aren't because there are one world or two worlds or anything.

They're there because along various points in Sonic Team's development history, they decided they wanted to tell a specific kind of story that isn't interested in or reliant on the events that came before it, and then put that story in a game. I can't go and treat the Sonic franchise as if it's a serial, because it isn't interested in being a serial.

It's like the Zelda timeline. Does a Zelda timeline exist? Probably, somewhere in some documentation. Is it set in stone? Absolutely not. Can Nintendo make games that throw the entire thing out in favor of making the story they want to make? You better believe it.

If this video is taken as gospel, there is one world right now, for whatever projects Sonic Team, IDW, or whoever intend to do with that piece of information. But there's absolutely no reason to assume there has always been one world in the design documents, or will always be one world. There's little to stop Kishimoto from going to Sega and pitching a game where they just straight up Super Mario Odyssey the hell out of it, and then throw it over to the Sonic marketing team and say "I dunno, you guys figure it out."

13 minutes ago, GX Echidna said:

Those plot holes aren't because there are one world or two worlds or anything.

They're there because along various points in Sonic Team's development history, they decided they wanted to tell a specific kind of story that isn't interested in or reliant on the events that came before it, and then put that story in a game. I can't go and treat the Sonic franchise as if it's a serial, because it isn't interested in being a serial.

It's like the Zelda timeline. Does a Zelda timeline exist? Probably, somewhere in some documentation. Is it set in stone? Absolutely not. Can Nintendo make games that throw the entire thing out in favor of making the story they want to make? You better believe it.

This is not true, a lot of games reference past entries. Chaos from Sonic Adventure was previously mentioned in the Sonic 3&K's Japanese manual. So, Sonic Adventure is a direct sequel to the classic trilogy. Sonic Adventure 2 reference the events of Sonic Adventure 1 in some scenes. Sonic Heroes references the Adventure duology, too. Shadow the Hedgehog story references both the Adventure games and Heroes. In Sonic 2006, Shadow keep its character development from his own game, and make references to Adventure 2 and Heroes.

Some side games, from Sonic Battle to Sonic Chronicles, for example, put Green Hill in the same planet as the human world.

The two-world things create a lot of plot holes that didn't even need to exist because it's clear that most of the games were developed considering that the Sonic's world is a planet that has human habitants.

But, the two-world concept was probably a mistranslation and Takashi Iizuka was talking about two different cultures, not planets.

1 minute ago, light-gaia said:

This is not true, a lot of games reference past entries. Chaos from Sonic Adventure was previously mentioned in the Sonic 3&K's Japanese manual. So, Sonic Adventure is a direct sequel to the classic trilogy. Sonic Adventure 2 reference the events of Sonic Adventure 1 in some scenes. Sonic Heroes references the Adventure duology, too. Shadow the Hedgehog story references both the Adventure games and Heroes. In Sonic 2006, Shadow keep its character development from his own game, and make references to Adventure 2 and Heroes.

Some side games, from Sonic Battle to Sonic Chronicles, for example, put Green Hill in the same planet as the human world.

The two-world things create a lot of plot holes that didn't even need to exist because it's clear that most of the games were developed considering that the Sonic's world is a planet that has human habitants.

But, the two-world concept was probably a mistranslation and Takashi Iizuka was talking about two different cultures, not planets.

A reference isn't directly saying the plot follows a direct path, especially when you're dealing with multiple directors that have multiple visions of how the world works. Mario makes reference to past games all the time, but it falls short of saying "These events actually happened" in favor of a much looser philosophy of "This is a production, and if you get the references, you get them, and if you don't, you don't."

Yes, there are some games that do actually rely on certain other events happening to explain certain other events. Sonic Adventure 2 does come after Sonic Adventure 1. Bioware had an absolute comic-book-style hard-on for trying to unify a bunch of Sonic Team games with a bunch of DIMPS games. And Ian Flynn has forever taken on the Sisyphean task of trying to glue the events of Sonic Riders to Tails Adventure, and bless him for it, he does an entertaining job, but none of us should be under the impression that anything in the games is built on a plan that looks beyond "get the current project done and shipped."

When you look at Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Unleashed doesn't care that Sonic Adventure happened. Sonic Lost World doesn't care that Sonic once hung out with a robot and beat up Chaos and Gamma on the GBA. It isn't building a consistent throughline. It's a big bucket of ideas that they can sometimes reach in and pull something out of to say "Hey, remember this?" or "We think this might make for an interesting gameplay or story element." And sometimes they reach in and pull out Chaos. "Hey, remember that Chaos exists? What if Chaos was in our game?" And sometimes they need something to be a magical powerup, so let's fish out the Wisps again, they're useful. What if they went inside the guns and hammers?