Kishimoto Hopes Sonic Frontiers Will Take Sonic Team to the Top of the Gaming Industry

I gotta be honest, I am long past the point of caring about what counts as "Sonicy" gameplay & what doesn't. Ignoring just how the franchise has already shaken up it's formula more than once, this is still a game that features elements that are no stranger to the series & the parts that are new to Sonic games are being done with the intent of becoming just as much of a recognizable part of the franchise's identity as the likes of loop-de-loops & Boost, but for a new generation.

If Frontiers does it's job & delivers an experience that defines Sonic for a whole new crop of fans the same way the likes of Sonic 1-3K/Adventure-SA2 or Unleashed-Generations were for previous groups of players, whatever complaints some older fans of the series may have about elements that they consider to be "un-Sonic" will be seen as something that's just as Sonicy as elements we've come to associate with the games during our time coming into the series. And honestly, I don't mind that. 

I wouldn't even be as annoyed with the line of thought in this topic if it weren't for the fact that it's about whether loops and slopes or interesting rollercoaster set-pieces are important in Sonic levels or not. And only tripled on the implication that they're not important enough to make a rise out of "if the game is good", or at the very least if they're way over here in an optional corner (where it's mostly asset reuse anyway).

I think that's just insane, lol. It's Sonic the Hedgehog we're talking about here.

The sooner people realize Sonic has no set definition, the easier it is to be more open minded.

Its evolved into something entirely now.

Nah, this argument just kinda mulls over the qualities Sonic has kept over the years in favor of focusing on what's different. It only really benefits the fans that like their Sonic games to have Sonic in it and that's it; leaving criticism for anyone who continues to care about the series for any specific gameplay reasons. It's a copout.

6 minutes ago, azoo said:

Nah, this argument just kinda mulls over the qualities Sonic has kept over the years in favor of focusing on what's different. It only really benefits the fans that like their Sonic games to have Sonic in it and that's it; leaving criticism for anyone who continues to care about the series for any specific gameplay reasons. It's a copout.

Eh, again, this feels overbearing. You don't really need to lambaste people who are actually interested in this game as "Only caring for having Sonic in it". That's just needlessly elitist.

There are people invested in the franchise who can very much still care about the quality of the game. Just dismissing them as "easy to please" fans just stifles discussion.

To go back to the main topic at hand. I do respect Kishimoto’s enthusiasm but man that is a bold statement to make. Like I don’t think they’re going to be on top of the industry no matter how hard they try. But just keep making quality titles and honestly it won’t matter.

3 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

To go back to the main topic at hand. I do respect Kishimoto’s enthusiasm but man that is a bold statement to make. Like I don’t think they’re going to be on top of the industry no matter how hard they try. But just keep making quality titles and honestly it won’t matter.

It is a pretty bold statement....and a bit of an odd one to make. Not in the sense, that they're in over their heads, but it feels like such a weird bout that came out of nowhere. It almost makes me wonder if there's some slight mistranslation from the interview.

You leave for 30 minutes and you come back to see people think Azoo is being overbearing for.....

slopes.

58 minutes ago, azoo said:

Nah, this argument just kinda mulls over the qualities Sonic has kept over the years in favor of focusing on what's different. It only really benefits the fans that like their Sonic games to have Sonic in it and that's it; leaving criticism for anyone who continues to care about the series for any specific gameplay reasons. It's a copout.

Yes, some Sonic fans do in fact only care if the game has Sonic in it. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but you're trying to argue with people who practically have an entirely different view of the series than you.

Its a circular argument that goes nowhere.

6 minutes ago, Endy said:

Isn't that kind of fucked up, that the series has become such an amorphous blob with no consistency to the extent that it is a point of contention that basic mechanics or aesthetic principles should be at least somewhat present? There's changing it up and then there's just becoming something completely unrecognizable.

And you know what, maybe none of this would matter if the game was bringing it's A-game and looked like it's shaping up the best of the best, but it's simply not, in terms of gameplay or presentation. There's a million open world brawlers out there, what is this game doing to outclass any of the things it's blatantly copying?

That is literally no different from any other multimedia franchise with different iterations.

Just...engage with the shit you like and keep it moving. I'm too old for this lmao.

What if we all just to agree that Sonic sucks and to just ignore Nokaine when he tries to pick a fight over that tautology

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I'm too old for this lmao.

You're apparently not too old for this, considering you're arguing about why we shouldn't care about it right now. On a forum about Sonic the Hedgehog. Why act above this?

What a weird farce, to act like having standards you care about is some great problem you need to let go of. This is Sonic discussion now, I guess.

2 minutes ago, Tornado said:

What if we all just to agree that Sonic sucks and to just ignore Nokaine when he tries to pick a fight over that tautology

Only if you and I can agree that Knuckles is the best character /j

For reals though, yeah I agree with you.

11 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

That is literally no different from any other multimedia franchise with different iterations.

 

I thought we were talking about the games? Why would the games not have any consistency? Mario, Kirby, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Metroid, Monster Hunter, so many long running series. Hell, many of them with multimedia offshoots and having demonstrably changed over the years, yet they have features that are distinctly "them". Sonic, based on how it is being discussed, seems to have none. Do you not think that's kind of an issue?

1 hour ago, azoo said:

I wouldn't be like this if ya'll weren't acting like I'm crazy or overbearing for thinking slopes should be in a Sonic game's levels. Just open your miiiind, Azoooo. lmfao

And a downvote doesn't invalidate my case, btw. Sorry that we disagree!

I don't think you're being overbearing. It's just that, at least for me, I'm not gonna begrudge a Sonic game for not having slopes, loop-de-loops & stuff if it's trying to do something else.

If Frontiers or any future 3D Sonic game is going to be ass, it's gonna be ass because it's a poorly made game. But if 3D Sonic games going forward aren't gonna have slopes, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it, so long as they what they do have is fun to play.

1 hour ago, azoo said:

I wouldn't be like this if ya'll weren't acting like I'm crazy or overbearing for thinking slopes should be in a Sonic game's levels.

Except, that's not what I said. Where I think your logic is off is when you go off thinking that people would only like this game for having Sonic when those of positive mindset have expressed other reasons for it.

It feels like not being able to accept that people have legitimate reasons to like this game just as much as detractors have a legitimate right to not like what they see.

1 hour ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

You leave for 30 minutes and you come back to see people think Azoo is being overbearing for.....

slopes.

Also, please don't spread misinformation.

Where does the line fall between "the thing you're a fan of isn't a real Sonic" and "you're not a real Sonic fan"?

You gotta love how every time Sonic goes into a new style it’s always brought up how whether or not it doesn’t fit Sonic.

Seriously, folks have been doing this since ShTH—hell, not just the game (which in all fairness, you can see a point), but the character even at his best simply because he was popular for what he was—among a bunch of other trivial things up to having modern aesthetics. Wouldn’t be an issue if it didn’t conflate to “this thing I don’t like” most of the time.

No one's crazy for thinking Sonic should be a certain way, but it's a lost cause. If there ever was one. It's SEGA's franchise and they're gonna do what they want to do with it, whether or not we plant our feet down in the sand and insist otherwise. Personally, I'd rather look at a game on its own merits and what it's trying to accomplish than the specific features I wish it had.

Sonic means different things to different people, and it does feel a little silly to say something once integral to the series like slopes isn't that big of a deal, but newer fans won't miss them. Yeah, it is dumb that Sonic's changed so much that the necessity of slopes is something that's debatable. But that's what Sonic is at this point. Radically reinventing every decade.

1 hour ago, azoo said:

. Why act above this?

Because arguing with children is tiring. I'm at a point with this series where I take what I get, sorry if this upsets you.

Sonic Team fucked up with the conception of this game. They made a basic open world with almost nonexistent Sonic design (there are a few big ramps and slopes further into the island, but they're pixilated and I know how y'all don't like those) and combat, and thought it was good enough. People played it and told them it sucked. Then they added the rails. People still wanted the classic Sonic action. So they added the cyberspace stages.

It's a game that set out to do something completely divorced from the identity of the series, and was forced to course correct into elements the fans do enjoy from the series, just to accommodate expectations. And it shows with the world design. It's out of place, boring, and the loops and platforms that are there means nothing due to how blatant the automation is from first glance.

I ultimately can't bring myself to care that much though; not with the way the game as a whole turned out. This kind of image perfectly encapsulate how some people felt and hope to feel when running through the more organic Sonic environments, in the 2D games of the past but especially in the 3D games. This checks a checkmark in a box that some die hard fans have been yearning to see attempted for ages now. The failure of Sonic games to incorporate the meaning of classic Sonic's gameplay tropes into the classic aesthetic tropes has happened two games in a row by now - or arguably more than that - and existed as something that ultimately had little more meaning than a hollow visual homage, in the same way that people feel about the grind rails used in this game. Their incorporation into this game meets that bare minimum requirement in gameplay importance, and goes below the minimum requirement of people expecting to be visually assured that it's following those hollow vestiges of identity still; but the execution of this highlighted aspect of Sonic's appeal scores points much higher than would be expected for those that do care about it. And frankly, that's commendable, in spite of how misguided the approach was getting to this point.

Sonic Team now know they can't expect to get away with default open worlds that lack the basic identity that Sonic has been a part of since the Genesis days. Whether that materializes in the future as games that stay exactly as basic as these same barebones grind rails and floating digital platforms, or something that goes further and incorporates it more organically from the outset, remains to be seen. But for now, I see a Sonic game that is making use of the classic Sonic tropes to the exact same degree as what came before, which we consider average-to-good at best, while also going way beyond expectations for other categories of Sonic's appeal, and straight up materializing concepts that specific fans have only dreamed about for years.

I'd say I'm good with this.

I’m impressed SEGA has tested the game every 3 to 4 months. Sounds like that would be expensive and tedious. They must really care about Sonic to go through that trouble, among other things. Sonic Team’s optimism makes sense if they’re been getting positive feedback from the play testing. 

42 minutes ago, Starnik said:

I’m impressed SEGA has tested the game every 3 to 4 months. Sounds like that would be expensive and tedious. They must really care about Sonic to go through that trouble, among other things. Sonic Team’s optimism makes sense if they’re been getting positive feedback from the play testing. 

And also guaranteed to leak. Frontiers was one of the worst kept secrets in gaming, it was just drowned out in other fake BS until the teaser inadvertently confirmed details from the leaks. SEGA had to have known they were sacrificing secrecy to a significant degree by playtesting so much. They decided I was worth it and they were probably right. I wonder what kind of game we'd be getting if playtesting started much later.