General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[The Kid]

They also worked against themselves, what with releasing the Mass Effect Trilogy shortly after for the same price as the standalone on the Wii U.

[SuperLink]

Companies don't act like playground children last time I checked. Here's a more reasonable reason: Devs have stated the WiiU is underpowered, along with the fact that EA's WiiU games sold poorly.

Underpowered, again, means little. Wii U is easy to port to, especially compared to the PS3 supposedly, and being underpowered never stopped the DS, Wii or PSP from getting games.

 

The problem is that games are selling poorly because the console is selling poorly, if games sell well they'll be made even if the console is shit hard to dev for (the Wii U isn't), that's how things have always worked.

[Gligar13]

Underpowered, again, means little. Wii U is easy to port to, especially compared to the PS3 supposedly, and being underpowered never stopped the DS, Wii or PSP from getting games.

 

The problem is that games are selling poorly because the console is selling poorly, if games sell well they'll be made even if the console is shit hard to dev for (the Wii U isn't), that's how things have always worked.

 

Because there isn't really a compelling reason to buy the console. Why buy a WiiU when you can get a ps4/Xbox One which is far more likely to get first/third party support for the next few years?

There's a difference between weaker (PS2), and so weak that it lacks games/buyers. The Wii missed out on tons of multiplats that were major sellers, and the attach rate was a joke. Games like CoD would sell 11-12 times as many copies on the PS3/360 than they would on the Wii, and the Wii had a huge install base.

 

Nintendo since the cube (and maybe n64 era) has historically had a low attach rate when it comes to third party, and especially with the WiiU's troubles, developers won't port games to a console using 1998 technology for low returns.

[azoo]

Because there isn't really a compelling reason to buy the console. Why buy a WiiU when you can get a ps4/Xbox One which is far more likely to get first/third party support for the next few years?

 

Lots of high quality first party titles? Cheaper console? Off-tv play? Companion for your 3DS?

 

 

There's a difference between weaker (PS2), and so weak that it lacks games/buyers. The Wii missed out on tons of multiplats that were major sellers, and the attach rate was a joke. Games like CoD would sell 11-12 times as many copies on the PS3/360 than they would on the Wii, and the Wii had a huge install base.

 

It's not a big difference like you say. And no, just because the PS4 and Xbone have 8 core processors doesn't mean developers are going to want to put the manpower into making their games require that.

 

Of course, this will be retorted with what's basically "nuh uh Nintendo's gonna blow no worth buying dumb old wii u" which we respond with "uh huh it'll be good" and it'll be the circular "nuh uh / uh huh" thing this argument has been for the past eighteen billion pages. :v

[Junko]

It's not a big difference like you say. And no, just because the PS4 and Xbone have 8 core processors doesn't mean developers are going to want to put the manpower into making their games require that.

Supporting this, not one next-gen exclusive game explores this. Yet. People assumed Titanfall, but oh, look, 360 and PC can pull it off.

[SuperLink]

Because there isn't really a compelling reason to buy the console. Why buy a WiiU when you can get a ps4/Xbox One which is far more likely to get first/third party support for the next few years?

There's a difference between weaker (PS2), and so weak that it lacks games/buyers. The Wii missed out on tons of multiplats that were major sellers, and the attach rate was a joke. Games like CoD would sell 11-12 times as many copies on the PS3/360 than they would on the Wii, and the Wii had a huge install base.

 

Nintendo since the cube (and maybe n64 era) has historically had a low attach rate when it comes to third party, and especially with the WiiU's troubles, developers won't port games to a console using 1998 technology for low returns.

There wasn't a compelling reason to buy the N64 or GC either, when you can get the PS1/PS2 instead. I'm not saying third parties are being silly to avoid Nintendo, I'm saying that being powerful doesn't mean you get support. If the Wii U was powerful, its support wouldn't be better than it is now.

 

Look, if it were just the console power that was the problem, the Wii U wouldn't have missed the grand majority of this year's PS3/360 multiplats. Nintendo's third party problems run far deeper than just hardware power and you know it.

 

Also, you said companies won't port to 1998 (cheap/easy) tech for low returns, what makes you think they'll port to new tech for low returns? They lose MORE money that way?? If they're not going to port to the easy-ass-port Wii U why the heck would they port to something far far more advanced when the console still isn't selling??

 

I know it's peachy keen to imagine Nintendo making a powerful console but ya'll need to stop pretending that it would magically solve all the problems that have nothing to do with console power just because you want to see it happen. I bet everyone here fucking loved the Gamecube, I see people all over Twitter saying "why dont nintendo just do what they did with the gamecube that was cool XDDD"

 

guess how successful the gamecube was

 

fuckin awful

 

people need to stop saying that going powerful would solve Nintendo's problems when they've proved at least twice in the last half decade that going less than powerful can lead them to more success than they had in two whole gens COMBINED. The Wii sold more than the N64 and GC combined. The N64 and GC lasted 10 years in total. That's a LOT of fucking up with powerful consoles.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Trips, the PC will always be ahead of consoles though so that's unfair. You have a point with 360 though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sami]

Underpowered, again, means little. Wii U is easy to port to, especially compared to the PS3 supposedly, and being underpowered never stopped the DS, Wii or PSP from getting games.

 

The problem is that games are selling poorly because the console is selling poorly, if games sell well they'll be made even if the console is shit hard to dev for (the Wii U isn't), that's how things have always worked.

 

To be fair, it's kind of both. It is hard to port native PS4 and X1 native games on account of the system not being powerful enough (Tomb Raider DE highlights the power gap the X1 has to suffer, and even that console is still vastly more powerful than the Wii U), but as you said if sales were guaranteed developers would surely work around it, or even make entirely different PS3/360/Wii U native games to grab those extra sales. 

 

 

Supporting this, not one next-gen exclusive game explores this. Yet. People assumed Titanfall, but oh, look, 360 and PC can pull it off.

 

PC will always support everything, considering it's a platform that has always and will always be as powerful as devs want it to be. The 360 version is being made by an entirely different team of developers, an effort that would only be worth taking if sales were predicted to be high.

 

 

It's not a big difference like you say. And no, just because the PS4 and Xbone have 8 core processors doesn't mean developers are going to want to put the manpower into making their games require that.

 

This is true, but you do have to consider that we're still at the very beginning of the generation with cross-gen games being common. A Wii U version of Tomb Raider, for instance, would be much closer to the PS3/360 version than the Definitive Edition which actually is a decent power display by the PS4/X1 for a near-launch title. The power gap will only get bigger over time.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I'd be more worried if the devs who actually gave sufficient effort to their Wii U installments were the ones calling it "underpowered" and whatnot.

 

Such has yet to occur.

[Junko]

Trips, the PC will always be ahead of consoles though so that's unfair. You have a point with 360 though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PC will always support everything, considering it's a platform that has always and will always be as powerful as devs want it to be. The 360 version is being made by an entirely different team of developers, an effort that would only be worth taking if sales were predicted to be high.

*looks up* I'm not sure how much hope Bluepoint gives me...

[Marcello]

Bluepoint has done some good HD Ports, so I wouldn't worry.

[SuperLink]

To be fair, it's kind of both. It is hard to port native PS4 and X1 native games on account of the system not being powerful enough (Tomb Raider DE highlights the power gap the X1 has to suffer, and even that console is still vastly more powerful than the Wii U), but as you said if sales were guaranteed developers would surely work around it, or even make entirely different PS3/360/Wii U native games to grab those extra sales. 

 

This is true, but you do have to consider that we're still at the very beginning of the generation with cross-gen games being common. A Wii U version of Tomb Raider, for instance, would be much closer to the PS3/360 version than the Definitive Edition which actually is a decent power display by the PS4/X1 for a near-launch title. The power gap will only get bigger over time.

I'm not saying the power gap is negligible and I'm not saying XB1 and PS4 games will be easy to port to Wii U (underporting is harder than up-porting if I recall), I'm saying that if the Wii U being easy to port to from PS3/360 level didn't get it PS3/360 ports late into the gen when the games were getting easier/cheaper to port, then Wii U being XB1/PS4 level doesn't guarantee it support at all. Infact it would probably be even worse than it is now.

[Sami]

I'm not saying the power gap is negligible and I'm not saying XB1 and PS4 games will be easy to port to Wii U (underporting is harder than up-porting if I recall), I'm saying that if the Wii U being easy to port to from PS3/360 level didn't get it PS3/360 ports late into the gen when the games were getting easier/cheaper to port, then Wii U being XB1/PS4 level doesn't guarantee it support at all. Infact it would probably be even worse than it is now.

 

Oh, okay. That's true, yeah.

[Gabz Girl]

...and they all sold poorly. This included FIFA, EA's #1 franchise.

 

...Which was a crappy "updated" version of FIFA 12. The other consoles got the better, ACTUAL FIFA 13 which the Wii U, the only next gen console at the time did not get.

 

It's like EA did it on purpose. Same goes for releasing Mass Effect 3 and not just the entire trilogy collection.

[Solkia]

Why are we still on this underpowered horseshit? All 3 are just shittier PCs, and PS3 and Xbox 360 which are even weaker in specs are still getting games, and will continue to for the next 5 years.

 

I'll say it again: Get off the condescending bullshit about the Wii U's lack of horsepower being the problem. The problem is companies don't find the Wii U profitable, not the Wii U itself.

 

Besides, if you really want to argue about specs, let's talk about how the 3DS is hardware from 2004 with a gimmick slapped on and still has more support than the Vita.

[Gligar13]

Why are we still on this underpowered horseshit? All 3 are just shittier PCs, and PS3 and Xbox 360 which are even weaker in specs are still getting games, and will continue to for the next 5 years.

 

I'll say it again: Get off the condescending bullshit about the Wii U's lack of horsepower being the problem. The problem is companies don't find the Wii U profitable, not the Wii U itself.

 

Besides, if you really want to argue about specs, let's talk about how the 3DS is hardware from 2004 with a gimmick slapped on and still has more support than the Vita.

 

I didn't know that PCs still used PowerPC 750s. Last ones I know that did were the fruity colored iMacs and the beige g3s. Plus, I didn't know the Original Xbox, Cube, and PS2 were getting heavy hitters in 2010 right? Plus, even those PS3/360/XBOne/PS4/PC multiplats are...not on the WiiU.

 

Yet why is it when DigitalFoundry benchmarks multiplats on all 3, the WiiU is always at the bottom, even compared to 2005/6 consoles?

 

Even Iwata admitted, there's little third party.

 

Handhelds are a different market than consoles.

[SuperLink]

Yet why is it when DigitalFoundry benchmarks multiplats on all 3, the WiiU is always at the bottom, even compared to 2005/6 consoles?

Because

• Wii U is a new console, new consoles usually take a bit of getting used to especially compared to consoles devs have 5/6 years of experience working with, that's clear as day
• Why would third parties put time/effort into something they don't think will sell?

I don't even know who you're arguing with anymore tbh.

 

So what's the latest on "Nintendo in general can't catch a break"?

 

http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=221435 PacMan Museum is cancelled on both Wii U  and 3DS.

 

Cancelling the Wii U version sure, but the 3DS version? What the hell Namco?

[Solkia]

... Is that bad? Pacman has been ported to everything ever, I'm pretty sure people could just pick up a Wii collection and use the BC

[SuperLink]

It's bad in a fundamental "nintendo sure is losing a lot of support lately" way but the game itself isn't a huge loss

[Solkia]

Yet why is it when DigitalFoundry benchmarks multiplats on all 3, the WiiU is always at the bottom, even compared to 2005/6 consoles?

Link?

 

Handhelds are a different market than consoles.

Yet the concept is the same. If bignames were really worried about specs, the Vita would be getting more support than the 3DS. But it's not, because it's not as much of a money maker as the 3DS. Same situation with the Wii U.

It's bad in a fundamental "nintendo sure is losing a lot of support lately" way but the game itself isn't a huge loss

Well, apparently Nintendo is trying to fix this. Let's see if they follow up on their claims.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Yet why is it when DigitalFoundry benchmarks multiplats on all 3, the WiiU is always at the bottom, even compared to 2005/6 consoles?

 

What're you going on about?

[Willsy]

I'm going to remain skeptical of Nintendo. At this point, I honestly don't know what's going on, or what they are trying to do. They seem to get some things, but what has me concerned is this fitness device thing they announced. I just can't see more gimmicks playing out well for them.

[Gligar13]

Link?

 

Yet the concept is the same. If bignames were really worried about specs, the Vita would be getting more support than the 3DS. But it's not, because it's not as much of a money maker as the 3DS. Same situation with the Wii U.

Well, apparently Nintendo is trying to fix this. Let's see if they follow up on their claims.

 

I'd link, but this site has tons of bugs. For example, CTRL-V doesn't work in my web browser when it does on nearly every other website. Just view the DigitalFoundry WiiU Developer article called "Wii U: The Inside Story". Or the comparisons for ACIV, Arkham Origins, or CoD Ghosts. Both were developed a year into the consoles life, by now you should be seeing improvements if there really was any "hidden power", and all you see are lower framerates even compared to the 360.

[Solkia]

Found it

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

 

It's basically a rundown of all that's happened up till now. It mentions the old news about how devs find the CPU underpowered and the outdated architecture too, is that what you're meaning?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Both were developed a year into the consoles life, by now you should be seeing improvements if there really was any "hidden power", and all you see are lower framerates even compared to the 360.

 

Comrade

 

No one's looking for hidden power. We all know it's not there. Rather, history has convinced us that power alone doesn't matter so much.

 

I'm sorry if this comes out as condescending or anything, but we've been arguing that point for nearly 600 pages.

 

I just want to babble about Platinum making games for furry Star Wars geeks