General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Sami]

I just can't see how it's overdramatic, though. Their stocks have dropped four whole dollars over the course of just one week, the console's best month ever is still bad enough of a bump for it to still be selling worse than the Dreamcast, and the chances of anyone not named Nintendo publishing any games for the system are practically negligible in the near future. 

 

The Gamecube got five years on the market before it was put to rest - it had some great games, but that was it. The Dreamcast got plenty of quality titles as well, but ended up spending even less time on the market. SEGA pulled all the stops with their marketing and pushed dozens of games out on the system, and that didn't help. Nintendo dropped the Gamecube's price all the way down to $99, and that didn't help.

 

Call me pessimistic if you'd like, but I've never once seen any single electronic product make the kind of turnaround people are expecting of the Wii U. The PS3 comparison falls flat on its face when you realize just how huge the difference is - the PS3 sold roughly 9.1 million units in its first full fiscal year on the market, and was getting plenty of tons of third party support on account of being powerful enough to do the same things its competitor did. Nintendo is currently hoping the Wii U can reach 2.8 million units sold in that same time frame, with third party support being practically barren with the exception of Watch_Dogs. 

 

But yes, we're going in circles. I think that, no matter what they do, the Wii U can't hope to reach anything higher than Gamecube numbers, and I think spending money and resources on it is wasteful when they could be spent on bigger and better investments in the future. I don't want them to suck this generation. I don't want them to suck at all. That said, they kind of do at the moment and I think they should really focus on how to fix that in the long term, while applying short term fixes to the Wii U as damage control, like a gamepad-less SKU and a price drop, alongside a steady library of first party releases.

[Indigo Rush]

Selling the Wii U without the gamepad makes as much sense as selling a Nintendo DS without a bottom screen. It's kind of it's thing.

[Wraith]

What's wrong with them starting their overhaul here and now so they can experiment and have all the kinks ironed out with their strategy for next gen? Forget slapping a bandage on the Wii U and letting it sit. What'll really get people talking about Nintendo and make their next performence all the better would be a good, genuine effort to make the Wii U worth it.

[Sami]

Selling the Wii U without the gamepad makes as much sense as selling a Nintendo DS without a bottom screen. It's kind of it's thing.

 

What else can they do when it's already selling at a loss and forcing them to bleed money? They just changed their yearly revenue forecast from a ¥55B profit to a ¥25B loss. They need to minimize those losses in whatever way they can, and the Gamepad is the easiest thing to get rid of.

 

It's a cool little device, but is it worth pissing that much money away when it just doesn't have the appeal to pull people in?

 

 

What's wrong with them starting their overhaul here and now so they can experiment and have all the kinks ironed out with their strategy for next gen? Forget slapping a bandage on the Wii U and letting it sit. What'll really get people talking about Nintendo and make their next performence all the better would be a good, genuine effort to make the Wii U worth it.

 

Fair enough I guess. None of us really know what they're going to do anyway and I'm pretty sure we all want the same thing from them next time regardless.

 

If they can handle it have at it, but Nintendo's never really stricken me as being capable of multitasking and huge comebacks. I'm open to them trying though, seeing as how I plan to buy one anyway.

[Solkia]

I'm with Dissy on saying I have no idea how the Wii U being Unsalvagable is being overdramatic.

 

I just said it yesterday, the competition is dwarfing them, stores have actually stopped supplying them,and third-parties are doing fuckall with it.

 

What exactly is this magic solution they're supposed to come up with? Let Jesus take the wheel?

 

I'm personally waiting for Shitty Kart 8 to be released before final judgement, but fuck us for being skeptical.

[Indigo Rush]

What else can they do when it's already selling at a loss and forcing them to bleed money? They just changed their yearly revenue forecast from a ¥55B profit to a ¥25B loss. They need to minimize those losses in whatever way they can, and the Gamepad is the easiest thing to get rid of.

 

It's a cool little device, but is it worth pissing that much money away when it just doesn't have the appeal to pull people in?

 

The gamepad is what the Wii U is based off of. You're asking them to sell a console without a controller.

 

And again, Nintendo has money to blow.

 

[Solkia]

They could remove all the useless shit from it.

 

The screen isn't the only thing the controller has.

 

HEll, they could replace the HD screen with a SD one.

 

And a company blowing money just because they have Money to blow is fucking stupid.

[azoo]

I'm with Dissy on saying I have no idea how the Wii U being Unsalvagable is being overdramatic.

 

I just said it yesterday, the competition is dwarfing them, stores have actually stopped supplying them,and third-parties are doing fuckall with it.

 

What exactly is this magic solution they're supposed to come up with? Let Jesus take the wheel?

 

I'm personally waiting for Shitty Kart 8 to be released before final judgement, but fuck us for being skeptical.

 

And sorry for at least understanding it's not unreasonable that they can shape stuff up, I guess?

 

I'm not even expecting Nintendo to make it out as the top console this generation in the end; they can save that for next gen. But what I can see is them shaping up their shit to at least make a lot more than what they're getting now. And all it takes is a change in focus.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

So on an up note, Unepic review from Nintendo life, looks like we have another great Indie title on the Wii-U, which is just another great thing for it(there are what, several dozen great indie titles on the wii-u? a number of them being exclusive as well

http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/wiiu-eshop/unepic

 

Review

USA Version

Posted

 

Sun 19th Jan 2014 07:00 by Tim Latshaw

Not ungood

So you know how it goes: you’re playing a tabletop RPG with your friends. They poke fun at you because you, the Modern Gamer, want to try something that tends to work on a screen but doesn’t jive with the “realism” of high fantasy. Whatever. You excuse yourself to 'observe nature', but the lights go out and suddenly you’re not at your friend’s house any more…

That’s the premise of Unepic, a, sprawling, indie-designed platformer-RPG with a cheesy, tongue-in-cheek approach to games and pop culture. Think of a combination of “Metroidvania” and Diablo styles, with a few dashes of Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure for flavour. Whether all its influences are to a player’s taste may depend, but it’s hard to deny that there’s a very solid game here.

The malevolently medieval castle that serves as Unepic’s main setting should feel familiar in structure to anyone who has played a title like Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow. One is free to wander and discover the rooms that are currently open, but bosses must be vanquished and keys found to open up new areas with new objectives and sidequests.

The castle, from a level design perspective, is very well thought out. There are plenty of nooks and crannies for secrets, traps spring up now and then but aren’t constant enough to be a nuisance, and a convenient network of gates and teleportation spells make travel easy. Each room also contains a number of torches and lamps that can be lit by main character Dan’s always-available lighter. This not only makes it easier to see, but can also mark out what parts of a room have been reached and what still may need to be accessed. It is a clever and seamlessly integrated system that makes exploring feel more exciting and less like an unnavigable chore.

Unepic’s selections of weapons, magic, and equipment also open much up to the player — seven different classes of weapons can be found, with multiple types in each. Every weapon type has certain natural advantages and disadvantages: maces are more effective against armoured foes, for example, while daggers cause more damage if you sneak-stab the enemy from behind. Magic and equipment have similar give-and-take features, from spells and potions to armour and robes.

With all this variety, however, come choices. When levelling up, a limited number of points are granted for categories representing each of the weapon, magic, and equipment types. Points raise proficiency in each category and allow access to higher-level equipment. So is it better to be a jack-of-all-trades at the cost of not getting the bigger guns, or to master a few things and have to push through when something nasty shows up that isn’t weak to them?

The respect Unepic gives players in making and living with their decisions could be seen as a boon or a curse, depending on your own perspective. There is almost no hand-holding here, and while things start off simply enough, the challenge slides up at a steady pace even among the lower of the four difficulty settings. Even so, while a new section may seem outright punishing at first, a bit of time to re-equip or plan a new strategy can make a world of difference.

Luckily, Unepic is set up on the Wii U to make switching between items as easy as drinking a Potion of Item-Switching. When playing on the TV, the GamePad serves as an easy go-to board for accessing whatever you need; and when in off-TV play, up to 12 items can still be assigned for instant access through button combinations. In fact, off-TV may be the preferred method for some to play, as it allows zooming in on the character instead of a constant full view of the room.

Unepic’s graphics are on the simple side, but that melds well for the more “old-school” theme and presentation; the music is similarly low-key but atmospheric. That leaves the potentially divisive writing and dialogue. The jokes can be very hit-or-miss, with a heavy leaning on nerdy culture and references for the sake of references. Some may love it; some may despise it. Still, there are better, more original segments featuring Dan and a companion who does not always have his best interests in mind. Everything is voiced, most of it not too terribly, and most of this stuff can be easily skipped if desired, anyway.

Conclusion

With much to explore and so many ways of storming the castle’s inhabitants, Unepic is a fun and well-designed challenge for those who enjoy platformers and yon hefty olde RPG feel. Its tight and rewarding core makes it a quest that can be enjoyed along with, or even in spite of, its cheekier sense of humour.

8/10

 

[Sami]

The gamepad is what the Wii U is based off of. You're asking them to sell a console without a controller.

 

It doesn't have to have a screen to be a controller. I'm asking for them to cut their losses, swallow their pride, and find ways to slash the price.

 

And again, Nintendo has money to blow.

 

That's really not how business works. :/

 

They're a publically owned company, and investors have a lot of say. Businesses are expected to grow, not piss away their money for fifty years without anyone interfering. Microsoft is one of the biggest companies in the entire world, and even their gaming division is at risk of going under because of a lack of revenue.

[Solkia]

I'm not expecting them to come out on top either. But when store shelves are getting rid of the console, and Third-parties are ignoring it, there's a problem.

[Kaabiitorori]

I cannot comprehend how giving up straight away on a product that has been out only for a year in order to focus on the next one without even trying to recover the expenses on R&D, without learning from the market on its remaining years of life, without launching all the software that's on the works, and therefore hemorrhaging money as you flip the bird to those people who deposited their trust on the console with the likely consequence of not winning them back is a more sensible business idea than pushing hard on turning their product as profitable as possible, ironing all the kinks and making your product more appealing, and to satisfy the user base with a compelling catalog that will carry on a legacy for your future products as you keep your identity and reputation. I seriously cannot comprehend that.

Because THAT is what happened to SEGA. And yet you don't want Nintendo to suck at all? If they follow exactly these suggestions, you are pretty much sending 'em to inevitable death.

[Solkia]

So on an up note, Unepic review from Nintendo life, looks like we have another great Indie title on the Wii-U, which is just another great thing for it(there are what, several dozen great indie titles on the wii-u? a number of them being exclusive as well

http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/wiiu-eshop/unepic

 

MEtroidvania title? Sounds like my kind of thing.

[Indigo Rush]

Them having a lot of money in the bank and taking a risk might not be a good idea, but it sure as sunshine is better than giving up on it.

I want Nintendo to take risks. I want them to fight for their user base. I want more games and support for the system I purchased.

[Sami]

I cannot comprehend how giving up straight away on a product that has been out only for a year in order to focus on the next one without even trying to recover the expenses on R&D, without learning from the market on its remaining years of life, without launching all the software that's on the works, and therefore hemorrhaging money as you flip the bird to those people who deposited their trust on the console with the likely consequence of not winning them back is a more sensible business idea than pushing hard on turning their product as profitable as possible, ironing all the kinks and making your product more appealing, and to satisfy the user base with a compelling catalog that will carry on a legacy for your future products as you keep your identity and reputation. I seriously cannot comprehend that.

Because THAT is what happened to SEGA. And yet you don't want Nintendo to suck at all? If they follow exactly these suggestions, you are pretty much sending 'em to inevitable death.

 

... Did you even read what I said?

 

How many times must I clarify that I'm in no way suggesting they drop all support for the console right now? Yes, go ahead and release whatever's in the works. Yes, approve enough projects to keep the platform alive for several years until they're ready for the next, and good god, yes they should absolutely learn from how badly they screwed up this generation. 

 

Want to know what kills companies? Several straight years of financial losses and empty promises and apologies as they slowly fade into obscurity.

 

What I can't comprehend is how you honestly think taking the hit, letting the console satisfy their current userbase while aiming for very modest and realistic sales expectations, and moving on to better things... could actually be worse for them then trying to force one of the biggest failures we've seen in decades into a profitable venture.

[Dejimon11]

Dude it's the way your saying it and portraying yourself that's giving people the wrong idea

[Jolt_TH]

I think really WHATEVER they do, to prepare for the next gen they really have to destroy this "kid console" stigma they have, even if they develop a top of the range console for the next gen that matches or even outclasses the other two people won't be likely to buy it or developers likely to develop for it because it's "for kids". They need to get rid of this and start making it a genuine family console, you have your Mario's but now stry developing some more maturer titles like perfect dark and goldeneye for the 64

[Sami]

Dude it's the way your saying it and portraying yourself that's giving people the wrong idea

 

I've repeated the exact same statement at least three times, what more do you want? For me to just stop talking? I said very clearly that I want them to keep making games for the thing until it's time to make a successor and then get a reply acting as if I'm saying they should drop all production and support right this second. 

[Mr Loopone]

Nintendo has the money to "waste."

 

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-has-812-8-billion-yen-in-the-bank/

 

Sorry Dissy, but it seriously sounds like you actively want Nintendo to suck this generation. Saying that they've already "lost" is downright cockamamie, this gen has just started, and it'll likely continue for more than half of a decade. The very things that Azu here is suggesting are not out of their limits. Updating an OS is nothing unbelievable; The Xbox 360 did it practically every other year.

 

 

It is true that this generation has started however there are other factors as well that determine the length of one and not just sales. From finanical recessions (one of the reasons why the 7th generation was a bit longer) to changes of technology (like in the past with CD, DVD and Blu-ray), some things that are also hard to explain. With companies pushing 4K TVs out of the door including Sony (the PS4 doesn't support 4K) this year, I do think that this generation will be a bit smaller and the PS5/next Xbox will have 4K support since they pretty much have to change the HDMI port (from 1.2 to 2.0) and currently some TVs that are advertised as 4K don't run full speed due to the lack of that port (instead of 60Hz they are running at 30). That's if there are going to be consoles instead of streaming boxes but it is hard to predict the future even though a 4K resolution console is a likely step. From what I just wrote, already made the PS4 and the Xbone out of date.

 

Updating an OS is possible however it took Nintendo a few months just to get updates and features with only just recently having a shared balance with the 3DS. The reason why the 360's OS kept updating were because Microsoft have been traditionally programming Operating Systems so for them, it has been experience even when the focus kept changing (from a clean dashboard but more featureful than the original Xbox to something more accessible with advertisements). I think the 360 is the exception here since the other consoles keep the same OS and pretty much the same look however give them plenty of updates from basic stability to various multimedia/online functions to even look better like the anti-analysing on the Vita. (Not sure about this but the most recent update on the Wii U looks slightly better but it could also be a placebo effect) If Nintendo had a stronger larger team regarding updates, eShop and the Virtual Console then it wouldn't be as bad. Then again the patching the games not to use the GamePad (one suggestion) might cause problems regarding at least Nintendoland, Zombi U, Game & Wario, Wii Party U and Wii Sports Club Golf since they use the controller heavily (Deus Ex and Sonic Lost World are more possible to patch for Pro Controller support, even though in the former case it will lose the uniqueness of the port).

 

 

And Nintendo is more than capable of releasing AAA games with AAA budgets. Again, they have so much money to blow it's not even funny. And changing the focus of the console is a easy as changing their ad campaign. Get rid of their little kid commercials or just add some more "mature" or "middle-ground" advertisements.

 

 

Something. It's not that hard. Even SEGA was able to stay afloat longer than they should have by marketing alone.

That advert looks preety good and actually would have been good marketing regarding that game if it was real. Sadly though Nintendo wouldn't make an advert like that and besides if it did get aired, there would be complaints by people...

 

And the Wii U has quite a few good games going for it right now. I just finished playing through Wind Waker HD, Nano Assault Neo, Super Mario 3D World and Trine 2, and I'm gearing up to pay for Wonderful 101, All Stars Racing Transformed, Pikmin 3 and perhaps NSMBU/Luigi U, NES Remix, Dr Luigi, Rayman Origins, Sonic Lost World and Nintendoland. And that's not even beginning to scratch what's coming next: Donkey Kong, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8, Monolith's "X" thingie, Smash Bros 4, Yarn Yoshi and The Inevitable Next-Gen Zelda Game That's In Development Right Now™. And then there's that 3rd mystery Sonic game, and a number of cross-platform games (Child of Light, Watch Dogs, Mighty No 9, etc)

That is something that I can't deny since I have enjoyed the games that I have for the system so far even though sadly out of that list of future games only Donkey Kong and Mario Kart 8 actually interest me (Watch Dogs could go either way, depends how good the Wii U port is). Pac-Man Museum and the 90's Arcade Racer too if we include eShop titles.

Thinking outside of my interests though and thinking more neutral it is a tough one. The games listed are very suitable for Nintendo fans and hence plenty to look forward to as well as a possible Animal Crossing game that I think will happen. However outside the fanbase and its gets muddier. Mario Kart 8 does appeal to the younger generation as well as the Nintendo fans, plus some racing fans however the more hardcore racing fans would rather play GT, Forza or even a simulator. The Wii U is getting Project Cars though. Smash Bros. is pretty much the same in terms of fighters. Bayonetta 2 and the game formerly known as X do appeal to outside of the fanbase who have the other consoles, even then they have problems (people still sore regarding the Wii U exclusivity, Platinum Games have a fanbase in terms of their games however don't have high sales like Treasure). Hyrule Warriors is already at a niche due to Dynasty Warriors however I do think that it will probably be the highest selling one. Donkey Kong and Yarn Yoshi are seen as "more Nintendo platformers" where the system has plenty already (personally don't have complaints about this, however to people who don't like platformers are annoyed). There is also a case of lacking of some genres. Where are the sports games? Where are the FPS and TPS action titles? The types of genres that even the mainstream buy and sell well (FIFA is always high on the charts in Europe). Also where are the RPGs? Plus the 3rd party titles from Ubi might be their last batch if they don't meet with Ubisoft's targets. Some of these are also eShop titles that don't get advertised a lot if any so there is a case of lack of awareness.

 

Final point, the Wii U is as doomed as the Gamecube was. That is, it isn't. If you want to go by sales alone, then fine. But the Gamecube had more than enough fantastic first, second and third party titles and cross-platform games to build a legacy, and I see no reason why the Wii U should be any different simply because they had a bumpy start.

 

 

Don't mind me wrong, the GameCube had plenty of good games and a reason why it is a great console however it was a different time when the PS2 pretty much had a monopoly on consoles where second place Xbox was quite far behind. Probably if it was released at a different time then the GC could have succeeded even more than it has done. Unless Nintendo do something and upped their game within this year and next (from the looks of things is something that they are trying to do), then it will be an uphill struggle unless the PS4 and the Xbone lose momentum. Even if using past evidence (the N64 with its lack of 3rd party support and the disinterest outside Japan of the Saturn), they were different times and the 3rd party support of the N64 have been closed down for years. The Gamecube even had decent support from EA who haven't really supported Nintendo (with only the Burnouts and The Godfather that I can think of that didn't come out), something that the Wii U only dabbled in. It will do decently in Japan and I think it will do better in the US and some parts of Europe due to a stronger Nintendo base however as far as the UK is concerned, the console is sleeping with the fishes.

Believe it or not, I don't want Nintendo to disappear and wanted to turn it around a bit even if it does end up being a niche console however they do need to learn a few lessons (plus a couple of bad historic ones too) so by the time they release their next console (a good few years yet), there wouldn't be as many problems as this.

[azoo]

Eff it, with how seemingly infinite this argument is, I dun care no more. I just want lots of variety in good games and for Nintendo to show some competence to kick this "kids / family" image out and go for all audiences.

 

Because "Nintendoomed" or not, I'm okay with this becoming another N64 or Gamecube. Bad sales or not they ended up giving me some of the most genuinely greatest gaming experiences I could've ever had. To have a console chock-full of that (with more variety than colorful platformers everywhere) is all I can really ask for reaching my interests. Even though I still think its absolutely reasonable to want online MP patches for strictly local games 

[PSI Wind]

I think really WHATEVER they do, to prepare for the next gen they really have to destroy this "kid console" stigma they have, even if they develop a top of the range console for the next gen that matches or even outclasses the other two people won't be likely to buy it or developers likely to develop for it because it's "for kids". They need to get rid of this and start making it a genuine family console, you have your Mario's but now stry developing some more maturer titles like perfect dark and goldeneye for the 64

The GC had a good amount of those. On the top of my head, Geist and Eternal Darkness were two launch window, Rated M GC games.

[Indigo Rush]

Dude it's the way your saying it and portraying yourself that's giving people the wrong idea

 

I'm beginning to think that's the case here, because I don't see what's so darn unreasonable about them selling their console while giving it a few OS upgrades to make it more "gamer-friendly" and spice up their marketing for it. We both want the Wii U to sell, right? So in order for them to get the word out, they need to market it better. That takes money, and Nintendo happens to have a pretty large amount in the bank. I'm no sales analyst, but if Nintendo markets their console properly, they could at least make up some of their financial loss as well as regain some consumer trust. 

 

From my perspective, this isn't largely about money. This is about improving their image and them sticking to their guns (as far as their console and gamepad is concerned). They don't need to do too many new things with the gamepad, really. Just make some more killer games (they already have a ton coming 14-15 as is) and increase their sales. 

 

What I don't understand, is why you always have to come across with the attitude that Nintendo should just lie down and accept defeat before the generation is even two years down the road (and I don't mean "stop making consoles", I mean "stop pushing their system") . That's like telling a kid who failed his first two tests in a class to stop trying and register for school next year. If they had any moral fiber, they'd go through with it despite messing up royally.

 

EDIT:

 

Since I took too long to post this...

 

That advert looks preety good and actually would have been good marketing regarding that game if it was real. Sadly though Nintendo wouldn't make an advert like that and besides if it did get aired, there would be complaints by people...

You do realize I was posting that for humor purposes, I wasn't actually serious about that one particular image.

At any rate, I'm just going to call this quits. This discussion doesn't help anyone, and since I'm not exactly well versed in marketing, I don't think it wise of me to continue on my soap box.

I still have faith that Nintendo will do well, despite their bad beginnings. The Wii U has some great games out for it right now, and much more is on the way.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Indigo Rush

[Solkia]

do I seriously need to say it a third time or are people just ignoring me again.

[PaddyFancy]

My stance is pretty simple; although they got it wrong early on, if they can't turn things around with a miracle of engineering, take the lessons learned and apply it next time. I'm sure they know what they have to do for the next generation. In the meantime, whatever you got planned for the Wii U, keep it on track. Don't write it off now.

[VO.SUPER]

Guys, you do realize you are all running in circles right? We all have to meet at a common ground here, because everyone's repeating their same arguments again, and again, and again!

 

I.E Someone has to stop replying to this particular argument, because we're getting nowhere. We've stated our points, and they aren't likely to change at the moment.