General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[SuperLink]

Due to the improved brand power of games like Mario Kart and Wii Fit, I'd be very surprised if the WiiU ended the gen with only Gamecube-like numbers. I don't think that's too optimistic.

 

If Nintendo are really smart they'll make a new Animal Crossing and Pokémon game that is as wonderfully advertised as their handheld counterparts. I honestly think the only reasons Pokémon Colosseum and Animal Crossing City Folk didn't sell that well is because Nintendo knew those games weren't up to consumer expectations or wishes, there was next to no advertising or hype and those games didn't generate word-of-mouth for being awesome.

 

Those games are megabig, so so many people want a true console Pokémon game.

I know Pokémon if GF's jurisdiction but.. couldn't Nintendo break that once to make a game that could be killer successful? Honestly now.

[Conando]

I find it unlikely it will pull just Gamecube numbers. The numbers this generation were ridiculous, for all 3 manufacturers. Though there's a possibility of a "burst", the same would happen to the other 2 as well. So it wouldn't be that big of a deal (not like it was with Gamecube either, though).

Edited May 2, 2013 by Wreck-It Ralph

[Autosaver]

Gamecube numbers? Really? Lol... someone is in for a surprise!

[Carbo]

Gamecube numbers? Really? Lol... someone is in for a surprise!

You're right. It's doing worse than that now.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

You're right. It's doing worse than that now.

 

Because it's not like Mario, Smash Bros., and Zelda aren't all giant franchises who haven't released their big console games yet.

[Autosaver]

Yeah, let's be honest. Nintendo hasn't kicked off their advertising campaign (probably holding off till holiday season) and many of their games are coming out holiday season. There is little reason to own the system now. I'm sure sales will boost tremendously once games like Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Wii Fit, etc come out. This is what I believe people don't grasp at.


In other news, Tank Tank Tank! is free on the eShop. Downloading it can give you a total of 70 coins. You can play it 3 times a day with the limit removed if you buy one DLC pack. I'm looking at getting Kong mode because it's 80% off and is supposedly the best part of the game.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Autosaver

[Carbo]

Because it's not like Mario, Smash Bros., and Zelda aren't all giant franchises who haven't released their big console games yet.

While I'm aware of increased brand awareness, Gamecube had practically all of Nintendo's major franchises and it didn't really save it. Also that had the bonus of having even better third party support than the Wii U had. Also, Wii U has the fucking "Wii" name on it. If that doesn't count for brand awareness then I don't know what does.

The reason the franchises mattered so much on the Wii is because of the base having been increased on account of the casual consumer. It was the only way to increase the tepid Gamecube base, but that isn't going to magically return to the Wii U, partially because of lack in marketing (which people need to stop using as an excuse because Nintendo has confirmed that it isn't going to increase it's marketing budget at all) and consumer confusion , but also because of lack of public appeal.

I never claimed they'd end up going under Gamecube numbers but right now its performing worse than the GC did in its launch aligned window, even with Nintendo hyping up that NSMBU on release. It'll recover, but don't expect it to come out on top this generation.

[SuperLink]

I'm not expecting the WiiU to top but GC numbers? I really don't think it's gonna do anywhere that bad by the end of the game.

 

 

While I'm aware of increased brand awareness, Gamecube had practically all of Nintendo's major franchises and it didn't really save it. Also that had the bonus of having even better third party support than the Wii U had.

During the GC era, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing weren't system sellers, nowhere near it. A majority of gamers hated the new Zelda style and it's since then grown a large fanbase.

 

These are just some examples, but during the N64 and GC eras, Nintendo's core franchises were nowhere near as iconic and successful as they are now. Nintendo has fully understood how to really capitalise the Mario brand by appealing to both new generations of gamers and the retro generation.

 

Nintendo's major franchises didn't save the GC because at that point in time, the majority of the market didn't consider them major, they didn't get big TV plugs and retail advertising, just like the rest of the GC games they were at the back of the shop. Now shops have entire sections dedicated to Mario games.

 

I dunno, I just think that Nintendo's big selling franchises have come leaps and bounds in brand power since the GC days.

[Carbo]

I dunno, I just think that Nintendo's big selling franchises have come leaps and bounds in brand power since the GC days.

If that's so I'd like to see an explanation as to why NSMB meant far more to the 3DS than it ultimately ended up meaning for the Wii U.

[Detective Shadzter]

To those guys saying this is a blow to the Wii-U: Well yeah, sorta. But EA is just such a giant screw-up at this point that it's hard to treat them anywhere near seriously. It just reads like one more stupid/petty decision after about fifty others.

Losing the EA Sports titles is quite a big blow, not a "well yeah, sorta" blow. A lot of sports gamers are casual gamers that don't follow the news like we do and don't give a shit about EA as a company. All they want to know is if they can play the new FIFA, Madden, Tiger Woods PGA Tour etc on their console of choice. This year is going to be decision time for a lot of people going in to the new generation of consoles and with EA not releasing their EA Sports titles on the Wii U this year, sports fans are going to go for the PS4 or the next Xbox.  

[SuperLink]

If that's so I'd like to see an explanation as to why NSMB meant far more to the 3DS than it ultimately ended up meaning for the Wii U.

It was released quite some time into the 3DS' lifespan, just like it was on Wii and DS. There was no advertising or marketing push for either the WiiU or NSMBU. Perhaps due to the increased amount in deals for DS, 3DS and Wii when their respective entries launched, the game was hugely successful on all 3 and helped boost console sales quite considerably.

 

Nintendo didn't take time or market context into consideration at all when launching the WiiU with NSMBU. The game is perhaps a system seller of something you can get for ~£150, a good fun game with friends and an entry game to the system, but something that was £300 at the time of marketing and hasn't had any real marketing push since?

 

People who wanted NSMBU for a fun blast from time to time weren't willing to buy an expensive console, even if they knew the WiiU even existed. NSMBU will continue to sell and be successful throughout the WiiU's life, but it won't sell the system in bursts like its predecessors because of ridiculously clumsy marketing and timing. It didn't have an audience because it didn't even understand the audience it already had; the WiiU doesn't yet appeal to that audience.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SuperLink

[Komodin]

So... is this console doomed now? I mean, with all the hoopla about it lately, I don't know what to think anymore.

[Carbo]

It was released quite some time into the 3DS' lifespan, just like it was on Wii and DS. There was no advertising or marketing push for either the WiiU or NSMBU. Perhaps due to the increased amount in deals for DS, 3DS and Wii when their respective entries launched, the game was hugely successful on all 3 and helped boost console sales quite considerably.

 

Nintendo didn't take time or market context into consideration at all when launching the WiiU with NSMBU. The game is perhaps a system seller of something you can get for ~£150, a good fun game with friends and an entry game to the system, but something that was £300 at the time of marketing and hasn't had any real marketing push since?

 

People who wanted NSMBU for a fun blast from time to time weren't willing to buy an expensive console, even if they knew the WiiU even existed. NSMBU will continue to sell and be successful throughout the WiiU's life, but it won't sell the system in bursts like its predecessors because of ridiculously clumsy marketing and timing. It didn't have an audience because it didn't understand the audience it already had; the WiiU didn't appeal to that audience.

In essence, you're contradicting your claim that the "big selling franchises" have more of an impact now than then. Yes, they have an impact; in proportion to how many units of the console are sold. But I haven't seen any signs showing that those "other" franchises are the magic be-all end-all cure. It helped the 3DS but the handheld market is vastly different from that of the console market, and to add onto that was a price drop which helped spur the sales in a market that is the only one Nintendo has consistently mattered as far as success goes ever since starting off. Is a 3D Mario and Mario Kart really going to push such a crazy substantial amount of units over the edge or is the increase in those titles' prominence for the Wii a by-product on that the Wii was just an evergreen console that meant there was a fantastic user base to provide content for?

Wii U's problems isn't just down to "poor marketing", and as I said, it's not going to be better because Nintendo has stated in their financial briefing that budget for it wouldn't increase later in the year. Why should it? The Wii U has it's fair slew of TV ads, has had spots and banners, etc. Is it that far fetched to just admit that perhaps it's the console is just an unappealing product as of now? Everyone banked on that "magic" combination of a "Wii" console and "New Super Mario" to keep it afloat, but it's not really doing that. That's for a plethora of reasons that aren't necessarily remedied by a few Nintendo franchises, some such as Pikmin that people are putting way too much stake into considering that the series never even sold that good. Wii U is constantly being thrown into the hum-drumming between current and next-gen, it's missing out on a plethora of vital games from vital third parties, it has no gimmick that's proved to be appealing for the mass consumer, it's commonly mistaken for being an add-on, it's pretty arguably overpriced and a lot of it's hardware and software elements are relatively archaic. The word of mouth is not that great for that matter.

I've said this but the console is Nintendo's attempt at wanting to have their cake and eat it, and that's not really working out for them. I enjoy using the console, but right now it's under a massive identity crisis that's plaguing it even in Japan where it's not even managing to hold up 10k a week, even with titles like Dragon Quest X and Monster Hunter under it's belt. It doesn't really gel with hardcore, it doesn't really provide much for casuals. Third parties don't want to develop for it since they're more excited about other consoles or don't see much of an opportunity cost. To have games, you need games, but it's a race at this point that Nintendo are not doing a great job in fixing and will have even more trouble to do once it goes on.

I'm even doubting Wii Fit being anywhere near as close to what it did with the Wii because people already have that game, but I could be proven wrong. I'd love to, since I love Nintendo more than any other gaming company. I'm satisfied with my Wii U in terms of what content it's provided, and as long as I get the quota of Wii U games that has been promised, I'll be happy. But I'm not arguing content here, and optimism for that is moot when faced by the other elephant in the room.

 

If the Wii U wants to be a success on it's own merits, it needs to provide something new. People like new things. It needs to be appealing in it's own way, and it's not doing that right now. You can't rest on your laurels when there's nothing in your product that's having much of a mass appeal.

So... is this console doomed now? I mean, with all the hoopla about it lately, I don't know what to think anymore.

Of course not. People saying this are morons. Never count out panic mode Nintendo. But if I were you I wouldn't start expecting the coming of the starborn ones.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

They just need to release a free art app or something, and then say "hey, lookit! you can use the wii-u as  your drawing tablet of choice!" bam, profit.

[SuperLink]

Nintendo are definitely trying to eat their cake, they have already made the mistakes and I *think* are learning from it. It's part of their """tactic""" to delay all their big games to Q3/4. It needs a serious momentum to roll and it doesn't have one at all yet. Even the Wii and DS had momentum at some points.

 

The problem is a plethora of things obviously too, not just marketing but also the price point and the lack of marketable games or features. The price point doesn't match Nintendo's usual demographic, maybe that'll change once Nintendo begin to price it competitively (like the thing that helped the 3DS do well and I'm sure the WiiU will drop come the PS4 and NextBox too).

 

A 3D Mario won't sell the console and I think Mario Kart will only help if it's marketed alongside games like Mario Bros and other things that are popular. The system is expensive, so unless they drop the price they can't sell the system on one popular game, it needs to be that fun party console you can get for kinda cheap if it wants that success, it still has time to become that but I'm worried that Nintendo's desperation to make systems at a profit will make them shoot themselves in the foot. It's a tactic that they haven't gone for before and it's showing, embarrassingly so.

 

And I don't think Wii Fit U will be nearly as successful either, but it's the kind of game that can be marketed and pushed after its release and last a while. I also don't think anyone ever thought Pikmin was going to be a system seller, Nintendo know it isn't either, they're just releasing it cause it's been in development for forever and is finally almost done. The system sellers here will be Mario Kart, Wind Waker, Wii Fit, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros, but they need to be released in bunches, preferably with a price drop, if they're to make any sort of big ripple that'll get peoples' attention.

 

The marketing opportunity is there, I just hope Nintendo are actually smart about it because so far they really haven't been.

 

Also what Soma said that'd go over really well.

 

EDIT: The difference between the GC and WiiU is.. the GC wasn't expensive.. at all. And even then, it wasn't marketed with the mastery that was the Wii marketing, it didn't sell tons because of the new Mario Kart that everyone should want to be playing, a real party experience. Even though the thing was only £130, or less! The Wii was more than that and look how much Mario Kart shifted the Wii. Brand has definitely strengthened since then, of that I have no doubt.

 

Unfortunately, the price has also soared to a level that isn't usual for Nintendo.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SuperLink

[Stacy]

Oh no. How tragic. What ever will Wii U owners do without a boring football simulator.

 

You would be surprised. It may not seem like a blow to you. But Sports Games are popular across the Board and they have a very wide appeal something the Wii U needs.

 

I have said this before Nintendo need to make it clear who they marketing this system to.

Edited May 2, 2013 by BW199148

[Chooch]

It's only going to get harder for Nintendo as the year moves on.

 

I know there are plenty of gamers out there that were holding off on the Wii U for the sake of seeing which is the better buy between it and the competition. Nintendo hasn't taken advantage of the time it's had. The buzz around the PlayStation 4 and the soon to be revealed new Xbox are killing interest in the Wii U.

 

I really think the only thing that will keep the Wii U afloat at this point is if it ends up being considerably cheaper. If the these new consoles are priced close enough to the Wii U and the launch library for them isn't complete and total garbage then there's going to be a serious problem.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Chooch

[Tornado]

Because it's not like Mario, Smash Bros., and Zelda aren't all giant franchises who haven't released their big console games yet.

I don't give a damn how much "stronger" those brands are now (and Melee and Double Dash were the two best selling games on the system period, so...). Nintendo sold the Gamecube for two years for less money than the GBA cost while also giving away one of those big franchise games, and that didn't do shit to turn the system around. The industry is a LOT more dudebro then it was then, and EA still supported the Gamecube.

[Sami]

I wrote a shit ton. Whoops.

 

It really just seems to me that Nintendo's unaware of how dependent they are on their core fanbase right now. The people who bought the Gamecube. The people who bought the N64. The people who lose their shit when a new Mario or Zelda is announced. The people who are pumped for Pikmin 3. 

 

These are the people who will continue to support Nintendo, despite the currently crappy situation.

 

Problem: This group of people is very slowly starting to dwindle, and it's not a particularly large group to begin with.

 

Solution: Expand this group. If not for over half a decade of blunder after blunder, this strategy probably would have worked for the Dreamcast; at least enough to survive its generation. Nintendo, you've got IPs other than Mario and Zelda; the more you use them, the better. You've got a ton of genres you can cover with nearly endless possibilities for what you can do. Why not make an all new Star Fox game? Another F-Zero? A console Metroid to wash Other M out of everyone's memory? Sin and Punishment? Another Kirby or Donkey Kong? A new Earthbound? Holy fuck, just think how much of a bombshell that last one would be. Hype explosion.

 

X is looking really good, but is there anything else on Wii U that Nintendo's banking on other than Mario or Zelda universe games? 

 

Furthermore, another common complaint thrown around about Nintendo is their lack of innovation as of late. What was their biggest new IP of the last generation? I... can't really think of anything. The "Wii ___" games? That was good for the casuals (I'll get into that in a bit), but their appeal among the gaming community's pretty limited. 

 

Give us some new IPs. Revive some of your forgotten ones and put them in the forefront again. Show us what you can do, Nintendo.

 

 

So there; the die-hard Nintendo fans are more than satisfied, and the group may even grow on account of franchise and genre variety being brought into the spotlight again. But what of everyone else? With stuff like Wii Fit U and that singing game, it's clear Nintendo's trying to capture the casual audience again. I mean, why wouldn't they? That's the audience that made the Wii print money.

 

Problem: As Carbo said, they're a fickle bunch. They're not a reliable audience and banking on lightning to strike in a bottle twice in a row isn't exactly smart. Not only are a lot of them unaware of what the Wii U even is, but what reason would they have to buy it? "Why pay hundreds of dollars to play Wii Fit U, when I already have Wii Fit?" The Wii's motion controller had enormous success among casuals because it was simple, and had a very basic appeal for just about anyone. My own dad spent hours pretending to play Tennis on Top Spin 3 and Wii Sports, and he doesn't care for games at all. The Wii U's gimmick doesn't quite have that appeal. Honestly... how Nintendo expected a makeshift iPad with buttons to have mass market appeal is beyond me. 

 

Solution: Stop focusing on the casuals and place your bets on the audiences who actually care about your games. 

 

 

Then there are the other two audiences to think about; I particularly liked the way they were defined on GAF, so I've come to use the terms myself - the "core" and "hardcore" gamers.

 

For clarification, "core" gamers are what people would typically refer to as the "dudebro" crowd. Appealing to these people was the reason Bioshock Infinite's cover looks the way it does. These are the guys that don't mind paying a bit extra for a console and accessories. The guys that may casually check IGN from time to time, and have reasonably sized game collections with stuff like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Elder Scrolls, Borderlands, or what have you. 

 

Casuals aside, this is probably the biggest stable group in the entire gaming community. The whole reason why homogenization has become such a prominent issue in the industry is because everyone's trying to catch this group. 

 

Problem: This group is being completely ignored by Nintendo, and has been for years now.

 

Solution: Stop ignoring them.

 

Nintendo, give them a franchise to cling to, and they will stick by your side. Microsoft caught these guys with Halo, and look where they are now. Sony has just as much third party appeal here as Microsoft does, and proved to be a fierce opponent for them as a result. 

 

So what does Nintendo have for them? ... Nothing. I think Zombie U might have been a shot, but unfortunately didn't work out. Keep trying. Yes, Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty have already been confirmed for Wii U, but what reason is there to switch from the Xbox? Christ, Nintendo. Give them a reason to like you. Sony's got Uncharted, God of War, and Killzone. Microsoft has Gears of War and Halo. Nintendo has no appeal in this market whatsoever.

 

I seriously can't stress this enough. Get the fuck on that, Nintendo. I'm not even particularly interested in these games myself, nor would I consider myself a part of this audience, but the appeal here is going to be vital to surviving the next generation. Get some exclusive hooks and keep them roped in with strong third party support.

 

 

Then there's the "hardcore" crowd. If you ask me, Nintendo's core fanbase is a relatively sizeable portion of this group. These are the people who join gaming forums and spend time debating game design and reading other peoples' thoughts and opinions. The people who watch E3 live. The people who understand game design and to an extent, the tech behind it. 

 

As I said, Nintendo does have a spot here. There are certainly a lot of Nintendo fans, and you can't get much more "hardcore" than someone who's been avidly following games since they were a little kid playing Zelda or Mario. 

 

Problem: Nintendo's influence here is starting to diminish. Quite a lot of people on NeoGAF (which, like it or not, is one of the most influential communities in the industry as of now) thinks the Wii U is a joke and Nintendo isn't viewed in an overwhelmingly positive light. 

 

Solution: Nintendo... just open your ears and listen. Stop being ten years late with everything. It's 2013 and content is still tied to your system rather than your account, meaning you're fucked if you somehow lose your system or it breaks. Really? You're trying to catch people's attention with Miiverse, but then Sony came around to announce that the PS4 handles social interactions on a much larger scale. 

 

One problem that is impossible to solve here, though, is the fact that the Wii U's built on extremely outdated technology. I'm personally hoping we don't get a repeat of last gen, where the "shitty Wii version" of every third party game is completely inferior to the real game on the current-gen twins. That being said, this can't be fixed anymore. Nintendo, make the best of what you have, I guess.

 

This ties back to my first suggestion; new IPs and interesting revivals will catch the attention of this audience. You used to have the respect of what is the most loyal group in the entire gaming community. Just start innovating again with your game design. Just about everyone loves Mario Galaxy, so have some other games of that caliber in different genres. As long as you're only leading the industry when it comes to platformer's and adventure/puzzle games (and even that's debatable at this point), fans of other genres will focus on different systems.

 

 

So yeah. There's my theory, anyway. Dissy's "How to Fix the Wii U For Dummies".

Edited May 3, 2013 by Discoid

[canderson]

^ That was an excellent post which everyone needs to read.

You pretty much nailed every key point that Nintendo needs to focus on in order for them to be viewed in a positive light again, outside of their core fan base.

[Gabz Girl]

I wrote a shit ton. Whoops.

 

 

That may have been a shit ton, but I agree with everything you said.

 

Hmm, do you think a new Metroid game counts as something a "dudebro" would like? I mean, it is a shooter..

[Sami]

 

That may have been a shit ton, but I agree with everything you said.

 

Hmm, do you think a new Metroid game counts as something a "dudebro" would like? I mean, it is a shooter..

 

I don't really think so, personally. Metroid's always focused a lot more on the exploration, backtracking, and puzzle-solving than the actual shooting. 

 

Of course, it could become something more focused on action, which isn't a bad thing in its own right, though I'd imagine fans wouldn't like that very much.

[Chaos Warp]

Alright, let's storm Nintendo of Japan and up-rise against Iwata. Discord will lead the revolution. 

 

The only thing I don't agree with is that Nintendo needs a "dudebro" title to appeal to the COD/AC/"Mature Gaming" crowd. That could be taken care of by a third party exclusive, Nintendo doesn't need to go there. 

[The Kid]

I'm just surprised they aren't jumping on the game train like with the 3DS. They're really starting to turn that handheld around (even from the Gaf'ers perspective) by bringing back old franchises and such. I know it isn't all they should be doing, but it's a start. Showing off a LTTP sequel counts as huge news in the gaming community.

 

So why aren't they doing the same with the Wii U? I'm guessing the news will come eventually, but the clock is ticking.

[Blacklightning]

I don't really think so, personally. Metroid's always focused a lot more on the exploration, backtracking, and puzzle-solving than the actual shooting. 

 

Of course, it could become something more focused on action, which isn't a bad thing in its own right, though I'd imagine fans wouldn't like that very much.

 

Not if you restrict it to a multiplayer mode. Never really seemed to be a problem in Metroid Prime Hunters.

 

Of course, if there were actually a way to integrate exploration and puzzle solving into a multiplayer Metroid game besides bog-standard co-op, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

Edited May 3, 2013 by The Cheese