Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Heckboy]

I just assumed Falke was there because he appeared in a fairly recent arc. Same goes for Fang and Battle Kukku. Maybe they'll appear, but I don't think Falke's location on the cover indicates that the Witchcarters are some Egg Army branch.

1 minute ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Besides, wasn't it confirmed that the Hooligans would play an important role in this story arc?

It was?

[Forte-Metallix]

1 minute ago, Mister X said:

 

It was?

Huh? I didn't say that. 

But to answer your question, a fan-mail section confirmed the Hooligans would be back soon, and since they're still under Eggman's payroll, I assume this'll be their return.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Wendy's design appears to be specifically made as an Egg Boss design. Wonder if she might not even already be an undercover one somehow.

[AngelSlayerN64]

4 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

But if Wendy and her cronies were working for Eggman, wouldn't Falke have visible cybernetics? For all we know, Team Naugus will be a third party in this chaos. I'm not saying you're wrong, but we currently have no concrete evidence either way whether Wendy will join/has joined Eggman.

In terms of cybernetics, it could be a similar situation to Monkey Khan from the Pre-Reboot.

A third party? Hmm...I didn't think about that.

You're right about the whole "no evidence" thing, though.

 

5 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Huh? I didn't say that. 

Sorry, I was the one who said that. I don't know what the hell is up with this forum screwing up my replies at times.

5 minutes ago, The KKM said:

Wendy's design appears to be specifically made as an Egg Boss design. Wonder if she might not even already be an undercover one somehow.

This is pretty legit too.

[Heckboy]

Just now, Forte-Metallix said:

Huh? I didn't say that. 

Oops, I might have quoted that from the quote in your post by mistake.

1 minute ago, Forte-Metallix said:

But to answer your question, a fan-mail section confirmed the Hooligans would be back soon, and since they're still under Eggman's payroll, I assume this'll be their return.

Oh that's right, forgot about that.

1 minute ago, The KKM said:

Wendy's design appears to be specifically made as an Egg Boss design. Wonder if she might not even already be an undercover one somehow.

Yeah, the "modern" design, combined with the whole "tech enthusiast" bit and her apparent fondness for Eggman, definitely seems to be hinting that she's an Egg Boss. Snively's been ruled out already, so unless the last one is some other character we've never seen before, Wendy seems to be the most likely candidate.

Kind of hoping this doesn't turn out to be another Phage situation, though.

[AngelSlayerN64]

2 minutes ago, Mister X said:

Yeah, the "modern" design, combined with the whole "tech enthusiast" bit and her apparent fondness for Eggman, definitely seems to be hinting that she's an Egg Boss.

Indeed. This is another reason why I believe she's the last one.

9 minutes ago, Mister X said:

Kind of hoping this doesn't turn out to be another Phage situation, though.

I don't really understand the hate/disappointment for Phage. The way I see it, she's like the "Anti-Nicole" in a weird way. Sonic and Nicole are both allies, so why can't Eggman and Phage do the same?

It's the same deal with the Battle Kukku as well. If both Sonic and Tails can work well together, then I don't see any problems with the Battle Kukku working for Eggman.

[Heckboy]

7 minutes ago, SilverStarN64 said:

I don't really understand the hate/disappointment for Phage. The way I see it, she's like the "Anti-Nicole" in a weird way. Sonic and Nicole are both allies, so why can't Eggman and Phage do the same?

I don't hate Phage, I just don't like that she works for Eggman. It would have been nice to have an independent villain with their own goals and plans doing stuff, but instead it's just "I'm stealing stuff for Eggman." Maybe her backstory will prove interesting, so I'm still willing to give her a chance.

9 minutes ago, SilverStarN64 said:

It's the same deal with the Battle Kukku as well. If both Sonic and Tails can work well together, then I don't see any problems with the Battle Kukku working for Eggman.

Not sure how Sonic and Tails are comparable to Eggman and the Battle Kukku, but regardless... in the preboot the BBA was pretty much independent of Eggman -- they had their own goals and whatnot, they just got technology from Eggman to further their own ambitions. You didn't need to see Eggman at all in the Tails Adventure or Babylon arcs -- the BBA was fully independent there and they truly felt like side villains. The Great Battle Kukku wasn't at Eggman's conference in Scrambled either, further proving that they were just affiliates of the empire rather than another DEL chapter with the GBK as Grandmaster.

Now, the Battle Kukkus seem to be straight up lackeys for Eggman, which is disappointing to me since now any time they're around they'll just be yet another Egg Army branch (unless they break free at some point, which would make me question why they became Egg Army at all). The preboot, for all its flaws, had a lot of unique villains with no connection to Eggman (Mogul, Finitevus, Scourge, Naugus, etc.), but all of that was lost in the reboot. So far the majority of villains introduced post-252 (that aren't aliens like the Black Arms or from the future like the Onyx City Council) can be grouped together as "Eggman's subordinates."

There's TWELVE Egg Bosses. Twelve characters with (from what I've seen) interesting personalities that could have been made into new threats. It doesn't help that, IMO, the concept of the Egg Army doesn't really mesh with the games' incarnation of Eggman (so what happened to them during Sonic Colors, for instance?). I love Eggman, but I'd love to see him as just the most prominent enemy in a world with a number of standalone villains instead of as a dictator with a monopoly on almost every new evil-doer so far.

Sorry if any of that seems incoherent, kinda rambling at this point.

[Your Vest Friend]

Just looked at the tiny print on Ian's concept art for Falke and noticed something interesting; in his notes, he specifically points out that his art has the head modelled after Lupe. That would certainly make sense given that they share species. So, why would Vince change it to being like Sonic?

[Mauro Fonseca]

I'm guessing something got lost between people drawing other's drawings and the face just disappeared.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I gotta say, I'm loving the dynamic here with the Egg Bosses. And wow, the way Eggman keeps them in line is even crueler than the explosives in their cybernetics - although, I actually liked the explosives a bit more. I'm not complaining, but I do wonder why they changed it. Either way, a deadly Eggman is the best Eggman.

Oh and Conquering Storm is an impatient bitch.

 

Still love ya, bae. Put that shuriken down!

I gotta say tho, as simple as Abyss is, she's somewhat interesting as far as what kinda terror she says is. The only change I can say I'm not much of a fan of is Mordred being a coward, but there might be more to him than what meets the eye.

Kind of a shame that there's incohesion among the bosses. Yo Eggman, this why "joint chiefs of staff" and chairmans are a thing - too many generals of equal rank and authority leads to bickering, chaos, and not so much teamwork between them. Maybe you'll learn that some point after this arc - maybe not "maybe" if the writers are reading this post. (Hint: don't give the walrus or the orca any superior position over each other, the pronghorn would do a much better job)

[E-122-Psi]

Not fond of this whole 'living death' disposition they keep implementing into Eggman's robots in the comic continuity. I thought it would be done away with after robotocization was out of the picture, but they found a new way to specifically just place that aspect back up (when truthfully I thought the original concept itself would have been more plausible just left at brainwashing or deactivating their consciousness as well). It comes as bit too distressful for the nature of the comic (and they can never revive it plausibly, yeah, Chuck acts SO like he's been stuck in a body he couldn't control for over a decade). It also feels like a concept maybe a bit too close to home for some, what with stuff like paralysis and locked in syndrome. Death by 'click and go boom' actually seemed less unsettling.

 

It's definitely one of the aspects I point out as the Satam/comic continuity trying way too hard to be grim.

[Heckboy]

53 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Not fond of this whole 'living death' disposition they keep implementing into Eggman's robots in the comic continuity. I thought it would be done away with after robotocization was out of the picture, but they found a new way to specifically just place that aspect back up (when truthfully I thought the original concept itself would have been more plausible just left at brainwashing or deactivating their consciousness as well). It comes as bit too distressful for the nature of the comic (and they can never revive it plausibly, yeah, Chuck acts SO like he's been stuck in a body he couldn't control for over a decade). It also feels like a concept maybe a bit too close to home for some, what with stuff like paralysis and locked in syndrome. Death by 'click and go boom' actually seemed less unsettling.

 

It's definitely one of the aspects I point out as the Satam/comic continuity trying way too hard to be grim.

Agreed. This new punishment feels like it's too much, IMO.

Speaking of roboticization, I have to wonder why it even exists (or existed?) post-reboot, seeing how the games' "put animals into robots to power them" is a thing in the current continuity.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

It's definitely one of the aspects I point out as the Satam/comic continuity trying way too hard to be grim.

Okay, you lost it at "trying way too hard to be grim" when this continuity right now is much lighter and softer than the one before. It's not any less intense, and being unable to move is definitely crueler than blowing someone up, but it's not doing much to be grim given the added shades of goofiness and action that balance it the same as we'd see from a Disney or Dreamworks movie.

Trying too hard to be grim would be trying to do what ShTH did ten years ago.

[Heckboy]

For me it just seems a bit weird that, in spite of the fact that the comic has moved towards more of a lighthearted tone, the post-reboot punishment is actually more disturbing than the preboot one.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You say that like you've never seen a lighthearted work have a mood whiplash of dark and disturbing elements. I've seen plenty of disturbing things even from a Kirby or Mario game - this ain't exactly against any nature here.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I've actually always loved roboticization, not because I like dark and grim things, but just because I think it's a really interesting concept. The way it clashes with the games' form of "roboticization" that is obviously less extreme could be annoying, but I don't think it's impossible to reconcile. Just establish that it's sort of an "enhanced" version of what happens to the small animals. You could even make it that, just like with the small animals, the victim isn't literally transmuted from flesh to metal, but instead it's more like there are cybernetics that weave through the Robian's body, making the process much more permanent than the simple "badnik" version.

Also, I think roboticization can also be made less grim in a variety of ways. The dark aspect of being trapped in a body you can't control pretty much only comes up in a single line of SatAM, and was ignored by the comics for many years, so I don't think it's an utter necessity. I mean, I do kinda like the idea that Robians still have some of their own thoughts, myself, but you can probably modify it so that they do have a bit of their own personality and thoughts, but it's distorted and covered up by their programming enough to make it less like torture and more like brainwashing with a few hints of self resurfacing that they can't really act on...or something. I dunno, I guess my point is that there's more than one way to do roboticization. There are many very legitimate complaints that can be brought against it, but I'd be sad if it got thrown out entirely. Heck, I already am sad and have been sad that they haven't done anything with it for so many years, other than the brief respite from roboticization-drought we got with Mecha Sally and the Roboticized Masters.

So yeah, I would really like it if roboticization was kept, but modified, perhaps significantly, and better elaborated on. And yeah, this is kind of going away from what you were actually talking about, so sorry for that xP

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I've always played with the thought over the games' version of roboticization into badniks in how it worked and what was the point. If you wanted to be pragmatic about it, using animals as a power source is a stupid idea, so that only leaves it with using them for cheap AI.

I'd say that the SatAM version was a more practical idea - cheap labor, resistant to insubordination, easy to fix, and hard to break. And that's just the dark side of it. Wouldn't mind if that was explored more in depth than we did in the past, but I'm not expecting that anytime soon.

[Heckboy]

All I'm saying is that when every other aspect of the new continuity seems to be moving away from the relatively darker aspects of the old universe (i.e. full-blown war, echidna concentration camps, Egg Grapes, etc.), it seems a bit jarring to make an element even darker by suddenly upping the punishment from "cyborg go boom" (which is already a bit dark) to "physically paralyzed and locked in a box for a few decades."

Not saying Sonic can't do anything dark ever, but seeing how everything else is generally toned down, it feels kind of odd to have this one element in particular made more disturbing. It's especially jarring considering that this is supposed to be the same guy who builds amusement parks in space. Like, if this was preboot Archie!Eggman, it wouldn't seem as off to me.

[brohman428]

My own thoughts on StH 280 and SU 84:

Spoiler

 

280 was alright, but it's becoming very clear that they are just trying to get to the end at this point. Sad, because they are skipping over a lot and summing up all of Chip's interaction with the Freedom Fighters into one page definitely rubbed me the wrong way. The second story was better and was nice to get some insight into both Rotor and Sally through their relationships with their mothers. Also, "Chaos Titans"? That could lead to some promising stuff in the future.

84 continues a great arc with some great interactions between the Egg Bosses. Gives some good insight into each of their individual personalities and ideologies that I can't wait to see explored in greater detail. While I'll admit to not being wholly on board with the Battle Lord being an Egg Boss, I don't think I could dismiss him as just some lackey. I think something more will come of that relationship down the line. Also, Kukku compares Abyss to the Babylon Rogues and mentions Babylon. Could the relationship between the Rogues and the Armada still be canon here? That could be interesting.

 

Personally, I'm someone else who believes that "deadly Eggman is best Eggman". Full on roboticization, trapping people in their own bodies through paralysis, brainwashing and leading a global empire, all of which are staples of Archie Eggman, reboot or no reboot. Admittedly, I don't have a whole lot to say on that matter beyond, I like Eggman as a real threat and keeping his subordinates in line  by any means necessary. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Eggman being the same guy who builds amusement parks in space is also the guy who uses it to suck the lifeforce of cute alien beings and warps them into odd abominations to power his new mind control device. He also happens to be the same guy who tried to nuke a city when his plans went awry, then later blew up half the moon to make a point as he threatened to wipe out countries if he wasn't declared ruler.

Like, I can't follow that whole train of thought - I get it's more shocking and disturbing than how it was previously done, that's just a matter of fact here cuz even I didn't expect that. But I can't see how this is odd considering that even Game!Eggman has done some pretty horrible and disturbing shit himself. Heck, if you want to be technical about it, he practically does the same thing as he did to Tassel Boy to Sonic's friends at the start of Generations when he uses Time Eater, except by turning them to stone. The guy is an all around, psychopathic lunatic.

And honestly, I doubt they're moving away from things that were relatively dark in the old continuity. They're more moving away from parts of the old continuity they can't salvage into this one for obvious reasons, otherwise anything they're allowed to present is fair game to be in this one provided they have a place for it. Might explain why they did away with the explosives, because whoever was higher up thought the opposite between that and paralyzing someone for decades.

[Kaotic Kanine]

I was about to say that perhaps Eggman paralyzing Tassel Boy for 2 months or at least 2 weeks would be more acceptable (cause a decade is just far too much and literally lasts forever considering the cast can never age) but ChaosSupremeSonic raises a good point. Eggman has always been a psychotic man and no matter how affable he is or the few amounts of redeeming qualities he has, he rightly deserves to be called evil. He started his damn "career" shoving innocent little animals into his machines to act as batteries (theoretically using their "life force" to do so. I mean, how else do you get energy from those animals?) and industrializing the hell out of any land he gets his hands on, which no doubt plagues the location with horrible pollution (assuming the environment hasn't been permanently rendered inhospitable due to Eggman). And he had only gone on to do even worse things since then, such as blowing up the planet. Eggman's no Joker or Red Skull but he is NOT a person to be around; not unless you're on his good side and the only way to get on his good side is to treat him like the ruler he thinks he is.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Kaotic Kanine

[KoDaiko]

Sometimes I feel the robot-related aspects (Metal and possibly-Breezie with free will issues, Phage, Eggbosses having their reason and threat by cybernetics) was taken in from Megaman, especially since the post-reboot stared after Ian started handling the Megaman series. 

As for the new issue, I do think paralyzing and locking away for 50 years because he felt like it (punishing an underling who he doesn't even know the name of for not being able to stop Sonic which he himself can't even do that) is too much. But I always considered Archie Eggman different from game Eggman, so while it feels off I'll try to keep myself shut up...

[E-122-Psi]

It's not that I don't see it within the bounds of Archie Eggman, I just see it as a rather extreme sense of macabre considering what the comic wants to be otherwise. Mood whiplash is something that can be effective if done well and with moderation, but can otherwise make a story feel erratic and with a story alienating premise. Take that early Satam backstory they had planned with NICOLE that made Robotnik's habits with turning people into robotics sound more like sadistic paedophilia. Not saying Julian wouldn't do something like that, but is it really fitting for who the show aims for, especially with things like Dulcy and 'MARGARINE!'? There's trying to aim for a wide range of audience and not knowing who they'll range for at all.

It's one of the reasons I thought Cosmo's death was overrated. The swerve into outright disturbing territory just felt way too uneasy and out of bounds, especially after several episodes of cartooniness.

I liked E-102 Gamma's story, it was dark, but it was one of those cases subtlety was used and it was for the better. We didn't find out a lot about the status of the 'animal batteries' themselves, it was supposedly just this little animal stuck in perpetual sleep inside Gamma as he ran off of it. There could be worse implications but we didn't have to hear it, doing such helped us focus more on the robot itself anyway, compared to Chuck where adding it ruined the whole suspension of disbelief. It was a better attempt at a story that tried to be dark that focused more on the emotional value rather than shoving in your face how grim and morbid the whole concept was.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Sad to hear Jon leaving. Gonna miss those chibii faces he did to some off panels.

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

I don't get why everyone makes such a big deal from this Paralyze. We always knew that Eggman is a bastard, is it really that surprising he would do that? I can't even be scared because they showed it in less scary way possible: on some random dude, already paralyzed when they showed him, dragged by Orbot an Cubot, two most frightening of characters in the comic. No one talks about it afterwards.

What annoys me is how sloppy it feels, side tracking of the main plot. In comparison bombs from Preboot were first shown in 192, as a clear subplot, that develops echidna's situation. Plus it was quiet moment between the action.

Here's how I would to it: Battle Lord gets angry and refuses to be used as a ground soldier. Then Eggman paralyzes him, reminding everyone who's in charge. He releases him, saying that it was the only warning, with Kuku visibly horrified. There, much scarier, but no real causalities and focus in kept on main players, not a little presentation Eggman made.

Also, didn't Axel said that Roboticisation is back? I guess Flynn didn't planned it carefully, caught by the Reboot of guard.