Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[horridus]

 

You keep claiming that's what I said, but I didn't. I said that Eggman builds his own robots. Gaining his robots via "magic robot zombie generator" takes away from that. I never said that he shouldn't steal other people's things, or that he shouldn't utilize his grandfather's research, or that he shouldn't summon gods.

I also argued that reverse engineering lost, ancient technology is a great credit to his robotic genius, therefore, I think it gets a pass.

You also said, repeatedly, that you felt him taking something that didn't originate from him was a detracting trait, or at least in the case of the Roboticizer. I just felt trumping his credentials as a scientific egoist seemed at odds with your issue over the Roboticizer, given that in the past he's done things just egregious. I'm not deliberately trying to claim you said stuff you didn't, but that's how your statement came off to me. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you were getting at, but when it comes off like you're dismissing one act of theft while giving others a free pass, it feels like a double standard is being enforced. 

That, too, is fair. My issue, however, is with the army it generates. He didn't build or design it. That's what bugs me.

Alright, let's frame it this way; the Roboticizer as utilized by Robotnik is not the same thing that Chuck invented. Chuck created a medical device and provided the technological base, but the Robians? Are entirely the result of Robotnik's own designs. The device Chuck invented was never meant to go anywhere near as far as what Robotnik had it do. One detail that the creators of the Satam show revealed after it's cancellation was that originaly, the Roboticizer ONLY replaced limbs before Julian got his hands on it. Going from limb replacement to total conversion is a pretty big leap, and as such, Robians belong to him.

Even before the Roboticizer came into play, Robotnik had an army; namely, the enormous army of Swatbots that he used to conquer the planet and hold onto power for ten years. Every robot, vehicle and facility in his army? The end result of him and him alone. The Robians were a slave force, one that could be made quickly and efficiently compared to other robots... and at the end of the day, they are ultimately his creation as well. 

Despite how this discussion is going, I do get where you are coming from. I really do. I loved Satam but always disliked the fact that it was made out that he flat out stole the tech, and I regret more couldn't have been done to elaborate on and remedy things, since the truth of the matter was more complicated than him just taking the blasted machine. His use of it however IS reflective of his genius, and it doesn't de-legitimize every last thing he made.

Heck, this sort of thing is the reason why I don't like the Fleetway version of Robotnik more; most of his robots, gadgets and so forth? They were invented by his *assistent*, Grimer. Including that comic's incarnation of Metal Sonic! 

Those are definitely all things that happened. But, my reason for it 'not fitting in' is because it's the direct explanation for Eggman turning animals into robots, at least in SatAM. That was its whole original purpose, as a plot device. Having both that and the organic batteries at the same time is weird, and I think you should go one way or the other.

Really now? Huh. I always thought the two could mesh together pretty well, actually; Roboticization being used as a cheap, efficient way to create slave drones to build stuff, and similarly, Badnik shells would utilize wildlife as a relatively inexpensive and easy to procure energy source (and wetware AI). Or in short? One would be used to exploit people (sapient life), and the other would be used to exploit animals (non-sapient life). Cost efficient, it could be. 

That is true. But, the million dollar question now is, "How high should the stakes be?"

Higher than the games. Which really isn't a difficult leap to make. So long as Eggman is treated as a danger and Sonic at least acknowledges that fact, even if only in private, I'd be just fine. This isn't the old continuity, but I don't think that it's too much to ask that things be treated with sliiightly more weight than they are in most of the games. Just a little. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by horridus

[Your Vest Friend]

Derail old continuity discussion with old continuity discussion? Can do, sir!

 

[Crim Da]

Is that page just a placeholder for where things are going to go?

[Your Vest Friend]

Is that page just a placeholder for where things are going to go?

For now, but he set himself a date of "end of October" for chapter 1, so I think a content addition is pretty imminent. 

[horridus]

Hopefully this will be option, because that sounds like the ideal way to experience LHT.

I have questions, though. Who would be delivering these bricks? Would Flynn himself have to travel the world, hurtling them through people's windows? Would I have to pay extra if I want it thrown through my bedroom window on the second floor? What kind of brick are we talking about here, anyway?

Flynn, delivery ninja, drone with the a brick launcher, anything  that will deliver it. And I would presume a solid clay brick, maybe concrete... something solid and not easily shattered. 

For now, but he set himself a date of "end of October" for chapter 1, so I think a content addition is pretty imminent. 

Fingers crossed. 

[Chaos Controller]

You also said, repeatedly, that you felt him taking something that didn't originate from him was a detracting trait, or at least in the case of the Roboticizer.

But, I didn't, though. I never did. You spun it that way, on your own. That's what I'm trying to tell you.
 

I just felt trumping his credentials as a scientific egoist seemed at odds with your issue over the Roboticizer, given that in the past he's done things just egregious. I'm not deliberately trying to claim you said stuff you didn't, but that's how your statement came off to me. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you were getting at, but when it comes off like you're dismissing one act of theft while giving others a free pass, it feels like a double standard is being enforced.

 It certainly would've been a double-standard, had that actually been what I was saying. But, it wasn't.

I do apologize, on my end, if my point wasn't clear, though. No harm done.

Alright, let's frame it this way; the Roboticizer as utilized by Robotnik is not the same thing that Chuck invented. Chuck created a medical device and provided the technological base, but the Robians? Are entirely the result of Robotnik's own designs. The device Chuck invented was never meant to go anywhere near as far as what Robotnik had it do. One detail that the creators of the Satam show revealed after it's cancellation was that originaly, the Roboticizer ONLY replaced limbs before Julian got his hands on it. Going from limb replacement to total conversion is a pretty big leap, and as such, Robians belong to him.

Even before the Roboticizer came into play, Robotnik had an army; namely, the enormous army of Swatbots that he used to conquer the planet and hold onto power for ten years. Every robot, vehicle and facility in his army? The end result of him and him alone. The Robians were a slave force, one that could be made quickly and efficiently compared to other robots... and at the end of the day, they are ultimately his creation as well.

No matter how you frame it, at the end of the day, each and every Badnik is something directly designed by Eggman, and a direct look into Eggman's creativity and design sensibilities, and Robians are just transmuted, metal shells of their former selves. I assert that Robians prevent us from truly beholding Eggman's craftsmanship and, therefore, take away from that.

SWATbots are cool, but they lack imagination. They're essentially just mass-produced, samey, robot Stormtroopers. Badniks come in all different sizes, shapes, and colors. Their designs are creative and offer variety.

Despite how this discussion is going, I do get where you are coming from. I really do. I loved Satam but always disliked the fact that it was made out that he flat out stole the tech, and I regret more couldn't have been done to elaborate on and remedy things, since the truth of the matter was more complicated than him just taking the blasted machine. His use of it however IS reflective of his genius, and it doesn't de-legitimize every last thing he made.

Again, his acquisition of the Roboticizer isn't so much what I take issue with. It's the Robians themselves. Because, I truly think that Robotnik should just be designing his own robots.

Really now? Huh. I always thought the two could mesh together pretty well, actually; Roboticization being used as a cheap, efficient way to create slave drones to build stuff, and similarly, Badnik shells would utilize wildlife as a relatively inexpensive and easy to procure energy source (and wetware AI). Or in short? One would be used to exploit people (sapient life), and the other would be used to exploit animals (non-sapient life). Cost efficient, it could be. 

And, if you're cool with that, then more power to you. But, I would personally just prefer one or the other.

Higher than the games. Which really isn't a difficult leap to make. So long as Eggman is treated as a danger and Sonic at least acknowledges that fact, even if only in private, I'd be just fine. This isn't the old continuity, but I don't think that it's too much to ask that things be treated with sliiightly more weight than they are in most of the games. Just a little. 

Fair enough.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Chaos Controller

[horridus]

But, I didn't, though. I never did. You spun it that way, on your own. That's what I'm trying to tell you

I know. I just apologized for it and tried to explain that I misread your statement, and how your statement came off to me as a result. You made a big deal about the use of the Roboticizer, and I took that as meaning the issue was the theft itself. It struck me as odd because Eggman's lifted stuff for his own ends before, and so I felt you were making a big deal out of something that had already been done. I *misread* your statements, because I found your exact logic to be confusing, and so acted upon that misunderstood information. And I am sorry. 

[Chaos Controller]

I know. I just apologized for it and tried to explain that I misread your statement, and how your statement came off to me as a result. You made a big deal about the use of the Roboticizer, and I took that as meaning the issue was the theft itself. It struck me as odd because Eggman's lifted stuff for his own ends before, and so I felt you were making a big deal out of something that had already been done. I *misread* your statements, because I found your exact logic to be confusing, and so acted upon that misunderstood information. And I am sorry. 

It's all good in the neighborhood.

If anything, this was all still a really thoughtful, in-depth, and civil discussion. Was legitimately pretty insightful, for me.

I'm sure Ian will eventually bring Roboticization back and, when he does, it'll be in a really clever way. I trust the guy's instincts. He's a very smart writer.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Chaos Controller

[horridus]

It's all good in the neighborhood.
If anything, this was all still a really thoughtful, in-depth, and civil discussion. Was legitimately pretty insightful, for me.

I'm sure Ian will eventually bring Roboticization back and, when he does, it'll be in a really clever way. I trust the guy's instincts. He's a very smart writer.

Heh, like I said earlier, I could go one way or the other really. But you are correct, Flynn does tend to put some pretty creative twists on old ideas, so there's that to look forward to. 

That, and Eggman's Twelve. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by horridus

[Chaos Controller]

I feel kinda guilty.

"The Silver Age" is, by all means, a decent story arc. But, in the back of my head I'm just like "Only ____ more issue(s) 'til Eggman's Dozen!"

I'm pretty freakin' hyped for it.

[Celestia]

I feel like roboticization might be changed to be the thing that happened with Tails getting those robotic attachments in Lost World. That way, instead of turning someone into a robot, it's essentially the same thing as badniks but applied to anthros instead of the animal friends. It'd make sense given all the other moves to make the comic resemble the games more.

[Arranos]

SU #81 is out now. We got some more info on characters.

• The monster in the Genesis Portals is called the Second Devourer. I have no idea if that's a reference to something. Can someone clarify?
• Gold is from another world that was attacked by the Devourer. She was transported to Silver's world and met the Council.
• Everyone gets turned to stone, save Silver, Gold, Von Schlemmer, and the Bits.
• Silver is sick of "It's no use!". Understandable.
• Seriously, CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THE SECOND DEVOURER TO ME? IS IT A REFERENCE TO SOMETHING? 

 Thoughts?

[Komodin]

Hmm, perhaps the Second Devourer is related to, or at least a reference to, the Time Eater?

[Arranos]

Maybe. Does this mean Generations happened if the Time Eater is the "First Devourer"?

[therealfalconpawnch77]

Hidden Content

Second, a unit of time, Devourer another word for Eater. Time Eater Second Devourer, it's all in the Timing.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

or Iblis perhaps, or a merge of both?

[Ducktor Naldush]

By the way, this month's off-panel.

Good grief.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Now that was funny. 

Good one Evan!

[Sonictrainer]

Preview Time:

I now want a toy version of the Bits.

[Your Vest Friend]

6) I think Silver and Blaze should be a couple! Don't you think that both of them are super cute together?

Not at all, Keira. Now, Shadow and Amy - those two are a cute couple! I do wonder what their "shipping name" would be though...Shadamy? Amadow? Shadose? Shamy? Sheboygan? Shamalamadingdong? Sha-

Even if we hadn't been told, I could have been able to tell there was a new editor. Vincent is not afraid to dig in. 

[Arranos]

And the Off-Panel explains why Evan might have asked this four months ago:

http://spiritsonic.tumblr.com/post/122216281149/quick

Edited October 29, 2015 by Arranos

[kirby1up]

hey guys the first chapter in the lost hedgehog tales has come out early

heres a link to it incase anyone needed it

http://bumbleking.com/?page_id=512

[Big Panda]

Holy crap

Ian actually DID consider killing Ant off!

[QuantumEdge]

Okay, so it's pretty much introduction with a little bit of behind the scenes ideas that were never implemented. 

Already heard about the Hershey business, but I did not know how close Antoine really was to biting the big one.  Yeesh, that would've been heavy.  Interesting how Heroes was supposed to be planned as a trilogy and #241 was just a bunch of back up stories.  Other then that, not much shock and awe, but I'm okay with that.

[Sonictrainer]

I had a feeling Hershey was still alive.