Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Zaysho]

Honestly, I would say the first cover is much better than the second one to be honest. The second one is way too plain and doesnt seem as festive as the first one. Seems like a downgrade to me. I know it may have been archie's choice, but still, it looks like a massive downgrade to me.

 

Yeah, it's dull by comparison, but you gotta admit the original is still pretty busy looking. I guess it doesn't help that Sonic's obscuring most of it. It would've made more sense if they just had Wells do up a newer, simpler cover rather than gutting it. But, the original artwork obviously still exists (I saw it in one of the comic's ads recently), so it's not like it's gone due to any issues with the characters or anything.

 

I do dislike when Archie alters covers for no reason though, such as mirroring artwork (which actually makes it look "off") for the Sagas covers and things like that.

[Dejimon11]

heres an example of what i was talking about

 

why would you change something as awesome like Ben Bates  to this

 

 

 

stuff like this happens alot theres another example but im too lazy to fine it so stop looking for an excuse to blame SEGA for ever

[Your Vest Friend]

It would've made more sense if they just had Wells do up a newer, simpler cover rather than gutting it. 

 

Not if you factor time into it. Going by Wells' being surprised that his cover wasn't used as a cover, this alteration happened really close to the shipping date. With that sort of time, making a new cover is pretty impractical. All the art on the final cover are art assets that were readily available to just paste into a new layout. The background was possibly new, but it's not as hard to do in such limited time. 

[Jet Prower]

I do agree that there were alot more people on the original compared to the newer version, but well, I enjoy pictures like that. I liked 125's cover alot. I like seeing so many characters together. If I can find those kind of pictures on DA, I always love looking at them. I know thats likely personal prefernce, but I do prefer the alot of characters pictures. Its always interesting to see who all is there and what all little things are going on int he background as well. Some of that likely comes from how I used to love those waldo books that do that, but still, I love seeing them all together like that. It shows what a large universe we had with so many different characters for us all to love and choose from.

[Your Vest Friend]

I don't think anyone is a fan of the likes of Dr Quack's kids or some grey thing in a green hat that even I don't recognise, though. 

[Jet Prower]

I don't think anyone is a fan of the likes of Dr Quack's kids or some grey thing in a green hat that even I don't recognise, though. 

 

Still, its not to see pictures like that. It just shows the world has depth and lots of people in it other than just the main cast. I've always felt the world felt a little empty at times.

[Zaysho]

Not if you factor time into it. Going by Wells' being surprised that his cover wasn't used as a cover, this alteration happened really close to the shipping date. With that sort of time, making a new cover is pretty impractical. All the art on the final cover are art assets that were readily available to just paste into a new layout. The background was possibly new, but it's not as hard to do in such limited time. 

 

Very true. To be honest, I don't really know what the production schedule is like, other than the fact that these covers are made, like, months and months in advance (we've been seeing solicits for most of these books a year before they even drop!) so it hadn't occured to me that this was an eleventh-hour change. It makes sense business/time-wise.

[Dejimon11]

Still, its not to see pictures like that. It just shows the world has depth and lots of people in it other than just the main cast. I've always felt the world felt a little empty at times.

 

still from a bussiness point of view would rather have a cover that will make kids and newer readers fimiliar with or would you rather have a cover that would prevent them from not reading? Thats why the SEGA variants were made

Edited September 5, 2013 by Dejimon11

[Big Panda]

Some of said Sega variants are made redundant when the standard cover was already Sega-centric. Like #252, both covers are nothing BUT Sonic.

Edited September 5, 2013 by TheFatPanda

[Jet Prower]

still from a bussiness point of view would rather have a cover that will make kids and newer readers fimiliar with or would you rather have a cover that would prevent them from not reading? Thats why the SEGA variants

 

If people can't be familiar with a character just because the cover is slightly different, that makes me question some of these kids then. The sega variants for the stores just see redundant to me. Most of the time the original covers are always better, while these variant covers just seem so bleh. If someone wouldnt read just because of a cover difference, what kind of fan are they?

[Big Panda]

If someone wouldnt read just because of a cover difference, what kind of fan are they?

A casual fan who only plays the games?

[goku262002]

Psh, Casuals.
 

Yeah hate to break it to you that was not SEGA's fault that was an Archie decision. It's not the first time they change the cover to something they done it with their own stuff as well. Not to mention that cover is in the back of the book

 

Sure, buy that excuse. I never did so I never believed it was Archie's decision to axe that as the main cover, too much time and too much planning was put into that cover for it to be chopped down to something that looks like SEGA would probably ask for. not to mention from what I remember that issue was to celebrate the comics history and it was very cut down from what the solicit mentioned first hand.

Glad to know it did make it in somehow, I was told it was axed entirely.

EDIT: Ha! lol, were a pretty l333t topic guize:

Edited September 5, 2013 by goku262002

[Dejimon11]

Psh, Casuals.

 

Sure, buy that excuse. I never did so I never believed it was Archie's decision to axe that as the main cover, too much time and too much planning was put into that cover for it to be chopped down to something that looks like SEGA would probably ask for. not to mention from what I remember that issue was to celebrate the comics history and it was very cut down from what the solicit mentioned first hand.

Glad to know it did make it in somehow, I was told it was axed entirely.

 

 

 

 

why would you change something as awesome like Ben Bates  to this

 

 

 

 

 

thats an example and heres a quote from Jon Gray

 

Really, guys?

Seriously?

This is what i get for not paying attention to anything for like 2 weeks straight. -__-

OK. **cracks knuckles**

* The cover was changed because... whoever...I don't even remember anymore, wanted something a simpler for the front cover and thought it might have been too busy. That's why a spiral foil design was made and Sonic was placed bigger/front and center. yeah clip art from other stuff was placed in, its not an ideal fix but what can ya do besides what you're told?

* Lamar's pencils were used for the back cover as a 20th Anniv. ad. It'll probably appear a lot more in various places because we all like it and he did a dang good job with it.

* Most likely the full thing will be used at a later date sans logo for a poster.

* None of it has anything at all to do with Scourge (or Penders). If it did, Scourge wouldn't even be on there -- which he is.

There. That's what happened.

Blunt Time! (watch out now. don't nobody get hurt!)

Every time a cover is changed, every time art is changed, every time a letter is changed, every time some weirdo/creepy-basement-dweller/wannabe-conspiracy-theorist on the internet makes up various reasons for things that they are not privy to is no reason to go OHMAGAWPANICPANICPANIC like the world is imploding on itself. I say this because the schtick has become old and tiresome. Every time we don't say anything it doesn't mean that there is some great vast conspiracy with people in silhouettes clasping hands and plotting murder like an episode of the X-Files.

Ian is busy plotting out the next many issues (you know, doin' work), Paul is busy doing tons of stuff behind the scenes to make sure stuff stays on top (also doin' work) and I'm juggling my own stuff (work) on top of my own personal stuff (more work). And Aleah is...I dunno. Off doin'... Canada stuff. Moose and poutine?

We may not be here all the time or may not be able to expound on everything, but please stop instantly assuming that EVERYTHING has to do with some sort of court case or Sega related issue. Because it probably doesn't.

This board is here for you all to congregate about Sonic but it is not here to tell you all about everything in the loop and if we don't that's no reason to assume that suddenly everything is bad and the comic is falling apart at the seams. So I'm politely stepping up to ask folk to CALM DOWN AND STOP DOING THIS.

I know some people don't care and others may not realize it, but it really does make our jobs needlessly harder (and way more annoying) when you do. And, honestly, why should we be more forthcoming with cool stuff or minor changes such as this one if all certain parties do is twist anything innocuous and innocent into some unnecessarily vast issue. Yes, a lot of things are going on behind the scenes that we can't do anything about or you all will never ever be privy to (I swear if that line somehow ends up as a headline on TSSZ I will douse the entire planet in gasoline and light it on fire) - this is fact - but that is no reason to panic like Shaggy and Scooby Doo on a ghost bender at every possible opportunity.

Chill.

Mellow out.

Peace. Be unto you.

We got dis, yo.

[Jet Prower]

A casual fan who only plays the games?

 

Maybe, but you dont throw the hardcores under the bus for the casuals. You end up pissing off your main fanbase like many other game series have been doing over time. Yes, you want to attract more casuals, but not at the expense of your main fanbase.

 

Look, I dont want to get into some big argument over this to where people are constantly trying to say everything I like and believe is wrong. I just get tired of of the hating and bashing on others for things they like.

[goku262002]

 

thats an example and heres a quote from Jon Gray

A) I remember that, It was in relation to the Penders issue and weither Scourge was in doubt of being taken by Penders thus leading to the False conclusion of having the cover changed.

B] Even he states himself that "Whoever" ordered a cover change, hes not even clear on who it was. I'm not saying that it may have been someone at Archie too but the dots lead too close to A SEGA rep ordering this then say the Editor. when we finally saw the cover I'm betting that it was probably seen by most if not all the Art team already, Ian, and the Editor all that it awaiting on was "Licensor Approval", SEGA's Approval of the cover so they can just put the finishing touches on the issue. Like I said, I just don't buy his excuse on it like I don't buy most PR bullshit so call me a weirdo/creepy-basement-dweller/wannabe-conspiracy-theorist on the internet all you or Jon wants, I stand by what I have to say.

C) Are you sure you didn't flip those covers around? because to me, that looks like an improvement then a downgrade.

Edited September 5, 2013 by goku262002

[Mauro Fonseca]

Psh, Casuals.

 

 

Sure, buy that excuse. I never did so I never believed it was Archie's decision to axe that as the main cover, too much time and too much planning was put into that cover for it to be chopped down to something that looks like SEGA would probably ask for. not to mention from what I remember that issue was to celebrate the comics history and it was very cut down from what the solicit mentioned first hand.

Glad to know it did make it in somehow, I was told it was axed entirely.

EDIT: Ha! lol, were a pretty l333t topic guize:

 

Yeah, man, I hate it with SEGA forces Archie to act as an actual comics company and change covers.

 

Everytime covers change, SEGA did it. Those fiends!

 

Changing the cover to the Super Special so it's Sonic only!

 

Changing the cover to the Selects stories to feature Espio!

 

Changing the cover of Mega Man 29 to focus on Mega Man!

 

Changing the cover of the DC Villain Month one-offs to not feature the name of the creatives!

 

Why, I bet they're behind it all! Archie cancelled their storyline of Kevin Keller going to Russia because of the gays rights issues- BULLROAR, IT WAS SEGA!

 

Marvel removes all the scenes of sex from Superior Foes of Spider-Man- BULLROAR, SEGA

 

Apple refuses to sell Saga on their App Store since it had penises on a screen! SEGA DID IT

 

JHW II left Batwoman! SEEEEGAAAA!!!

 

 

Every bad stereotype you can think of! SEGA! Every criminal on the street! SEGA! Archie can't be responsabilized, Archie isn't a comics company! They do NOTHING like other comics companies! EVERYTHING they do is SEGA's fault!

 

Goku, you're becoming /pol/ unto yourself, only around SEGA. Ian Flynn could come here right now and say "ACTUALLY SEGA HAS DONE NOTHING IN THE LAST DECADE IT WAS ALL ME", you'd never believe him! SEGA's the villain! My God, man, that's pure conspiracy theory behaviour!

Edited September 5, 2013 by Albator

[Dejimon11]

 

A) I remember that, It was in relation to the Penders issue and weither Scourge was in doubt of being taken by Penders thus leading to the False conclusion of having the cover changed.

B] Even he states himself that "Whoever" ordered a cover change, hes not even clear on who it was. I'm not saying that it may have been someone at Archie too but the dots lead too close to A SEGA rep ordering this then say the Editor. when we finally saw the cover I'm betting that it was probably seen by most if not all the Art team already, Ian, and the Editor all that it awaiting on was "Licensor Approval", SEGA's Approval of the cover so they can just put the finishing touches on the issue. Like I said, I just don't buy his excuse on it like I don't buy most PR bullshit so call me a weirdo/creepy-basement-dweller/wannabe-conspiracy-theorist on the internet all you or Jon wants, I stand by what I have to say.

C) Are you sure you didn't flip those covers around? because to me, that looks like an improvement then a downgrade.

 

 

You've made your point i guess the only thing that isnt helping your case is that you constantly look to blame SEGA for anything that they didnt or wont let Archie use and yes i didnt flip those covers around

[Big Panda]

Maybe, but you dont throw the hardcores under the bus for the casuals. You end up pissing off your main fanbase like many other game series have been doing over time. Yes, you want to attract more casuals, but not at the expense of your main fanbase.   Look, I dont want to get into some big argument over this to where people are constantly trying to say everything I like and believe is wrong. I just get tired of of the hating and bashing on others for things they like.

Well, I'd think hardcore fans (that is the ones that aren't dumb/crazy) know better than to judge the contents of the book by the cover.

[Jet Prower]

Well, I'd think hardcore fans (that is the ones that aren't dumb/crazy) know better than to judge the contents of the book by the cover.

 

Yes, that I know they dont. But I mean more of the fact you see it in other game series as well, where you try and grab such a large casual audience that you do start ignoring your hardcore fanbase. Casuals, while not bad, dont know this or other series as well and can't usually help promote a series to others and give you free advertising and promotion like your hardcores can. When you start ignoring them and start going for the casual audience over them, the hardcore may end up doing the opposite of promoting you if they feel you don't care anymore. I'm not talking heavily about archie and sega here, since normally, they dont do this asmuch as I've seen  other gaming companies do.

[goku262002]

You've made your point i guess the only thing that isnt helping your case is that you constantly look to blame SEGA for anything that they didnt or wont let Archie use and yes i didnt flip those covers around

I don't really have anything against SEGA tbh, I can understand why they had to pull the leash when they did. the comic during its dark days was starting to go rampant and oddball with its stories and world building, Penders wasn't helping at all. By the time 155-160 happened they kicked Penders out, brought in a good fan and writer Ian, started chopping all the artists to stay in a consistent flow and really rebuilt what was a joke of a comic to me and other non-readers before to something really good. I'll always thank SEGA for getting the comic into its second good era.

But now? I just feel like they can let go alittle and not be soo...there, like a hovering overprotective mother hen. I'm sure if alittle control was given back Ian wouldn't go Penders crazy and fly off the handle and the art wouldn't look like a drunk chimp vomited a box of crayons on it.

Mandates that were caused by Penders issues aside because I know that was a problem, It just feels like with all the tiny stupid nonsensical mandates they hand out, SEGA won't give Archie a second chance even though they really reformed from what they were. even now with the whole recent "Metal Sonic can't be a pirate" or "Metal Sonic can't speak like this" things, theres still no trust in Ian or his crew that he would be able to keep Metal Sonic respectable and in-character and still give him some defining personality that sets him apart from his game canon self.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then honestly, its an improvement to me. makes it seem more professional comic then fancover.

Edited September 5, 2013 by goku262002

[Your Vest Friend]

What? Captain Metal has nothing to do with SEGA not liking the theme. SEGA have said that there is only one Metal Sonic. Eggman already has one running around, therefore this one had to be remade so he wasn't a second Metal Sonic directly. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

No, see, SEGA should not be allowed to protect against brand dilution. Who cares if the trademark, and what they sell publicly as "Metal Sonic", is not a wise-cracking black-and-gold robot with a cannon for a hand, or a dramatic speech-giving one, or a pirate?

 

The only way licensing is allowed is if the licensor gives total freedom! You're either Hasbro or a has-been! Fuck's sake.

 

tl;dr throughout two posts of rage and passive-aggressiveness:

 

SEGA is not the stereotype of the boogieman. Archie DOES make alterations in the comic of their own will, since they ARE still a comics editor. If characters are being introduced in the book that directly confuse or contradict their products, SEGA's perfectly allowed to put a stop to that.

 

Licensing is great when the licensor gives freedom. It can also be great when the Licensor's controlling things. Stop making a great big octopus of a question out of this.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Albator

[goku262002]

 

What? Captain Metal has nothing to do with SEGA not liking the theme. SEGA have said that there is only one Metal Sonic. Eggman already has one running around, therefore this one had to be remade so he wasn't a second Metal Sonic directly.

Hmm, alright then. though the Sol Emerald universe comes into play with that excuse, I guess that can be feasible. but yeah you just brought another thing up, the direct relationship with Metal Sonic.

Shard who was once known to be the "Original Metal Sonic" had to get that thrown out of his story because SEGA didn't want any relation to Metal Sonic, now hes known as a "Mecha Sonic" type.

Why would it have been soo wrong to have Pirate Metal or Shard to be a relation to current Metal Sonic? do they feel that thats going to somehow universally fuck up game canon Metal Sonic somehow by saying Shard was once the original model in the comic or that the pirate version is the Comic!Sol Emerald universe of Metal Sonic?

Just dumb shit like that that I would like to know what SEGA is thinking when they order stuff like that.

Edited September 5, 2013 by goku262002

[Dejimon11]

to be fair when shard was first introduced he was called mecha sonic

[kimplix]

heres an example of what i was talking about

 

why would you change something as awesome like Ben Bates  to this

 

 

 

stuff like this happens alot theres another example but im too lazy to fine it so stop looking for an excuse to blame SEGA for ever

Where the fuck did that chimp come from? He suddenly appears out of nowhere in the updated cover. I mean... What?