Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[turbojet]

I dunno, I think Eggman carpet bombing Knothole to the ground was at least a somewhat game changing consequence.

And then a completely new city was built right after that event so again, as Mark stated, nothing of consequence ever sticks.

[Sega DogTagz]

Last time I checked, Sonic is still dealing with the fallout of the Mecha Madness saga (and a few other times he went "rouge"). There is an aura of disloyalty around him among the populous that has still yet to dissipate.

That is a fairly spectacular consequence in my book.

[-Mark-]

Mecha Madness saga? You mean the really old special, or was it something I missed when I dropped the comic for five years? In any case, do elaborate.

[Sega DogTagz]

Mecha Madness saga? You mean the really old special, or was it something I missed when I dropped the comic for five years? In any case, do elaborate.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Your Vest Friend]

What about Charmy? His brains are still half scrambled. The Chaos Emeralds got merged down into seven - that's a significant change.

[Sega DogTagz]

I can give you the Brotherhood and the Ancient Guardians, but I'd argue that Charmy and the Emeralds are very exceptional cases in that their scenarios weren't for the purpose of heavily affecting the story narrative, but to exchange their status quo for something much closer to the game status quo (even if I do feel Ian went about doing that to Charmy in the wrong way).

But if your changing the status quo of 1 cannon (the comics) to meet the status quo of another (the games), isn’t that still a massive change in the status quo of the original all the same?

I agree that the Charmy we have now is clearly an attempt to bring him closer to the personality we are familiar with in the games – but when you compare scatterbrained Charmy to the Bee that had to rule over a kingdom and have all that taken away from him….. that’s a pretty jarring shift.

As far as the comics are concerned, they curb stomped the status quo with the egg grapes incident, even if those changes were already apparent in the games. (Same goes for the Chaos Emeralds)

As for the whole mistrusting thing, I'm honestly not sure if that's an effect of Mecha Madness or just for the convenience of the plot at this moment in time, they have been pretty trusting of him since Mecha Madness before the Iron Dominion saga.

It is undoubtedly a cumulative effect. Sonic’s trend for bucking authority is a common theme.

What is apparent is that there are consistent repercussions for this behavior. Sonic’s relationship with the Crown (and authority in general) would never be the same. The more he strays, the tighter the scope he is put under. Between the abolishment of the Freedom Fighters by King Max some time ago, and the current handicap of the Council, Sonic’s status quo is consistently being changed as a result of people seeking to take decision making power out of the hands of the characters whom actually have the greatest ability to dictate it.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Soniman]

Charmy's dumbing down at least serves to make him a lot less bland, unlike his girlfriend Saffron (seriously, why does she exist?).

[turbojet]

I'm with Vedi. The fact that it has never been specifically and explicitly brought up is dubious whether it has anything to do with their distrust at all since Sonic has gone rogue so many times that it might as well be inconsequential since it has been frequent. Not to mention, that their distrust has been said to be fueled by Naugus or,in the case of the pig, jealousy, not prior actions.

As for the others you mentioned, maybe I need to elaborate myself. Brotherhood of Guardians does not measure up to something of consequence because their entire existence was to show how superior echidnas were to everybody despite being nearly extinct. I'm trying to think of an analogy for them besides the entire concept of them besides alluding to the horrible, terrible, and downright abysmal writing. Okay, who were these people and why should the reader feel invested in a group that A.) was set in their own setting apart from the majority of the cast and B.) was really only insulated as a Knuckles thing? Knuckles,himself, rarely appears anymore and when he does it isn't like oh shit, the Brotherhood of Guardians is gone now, all hell has broken loose.

Why I call bullshit on the Knothole bombing because it seemed like the entire point of it was for Sonic and pals to change a physical setting. Immediately after saving the citizens...no scratch that, during the rescue, they immediately had a better place to live. Did Eggman gain anything after his defeat? No, it was typical. Did anyone suffer due to the change of scenery? No, the place was more accommodating than their previous residency.

[Aquaslash]

For what it's worth, we're still dealing with the fallout from Iron Dominion, both in Snively finally going rogue and making an attempt to rescue Regina, from the whole of New Mobotropolis completely turning their back on Nicole. The latter event helped set up Naugus becoming the king.

It's going to be a pretty long time before they bounce back to anything resembling "good".

[Kuzu]

As for the others you mentioned, maybe I need to elaborate myself. Brotherhood of Guardians does not measure up to something of consequence because their entire existence was to show how superior echidnas were to everybody despite being nearly extinct. I'm trying to think of an analogy for them besides the entire concept of them besides alluding to the horrible, terrible, and downright abysmal writing. Okay, who were these people and why should the reader feel invested in a group that A.) was set in their own setting apart from the majority of the cast and B.) was really only insulated as a Knuckles thing? Knuckles,himself, rarely appears anymore and when he does it isn't like oh shit, the Brotherhood of Guardians is gone now, all hell has broken loose.

Hmm, a main character that serves as the last of his one of a kind race before more eventually show up, and take over the entire narrative to the point where said clan are basically at the center of the entire story.

Hmm, what blue spiky haired asshole do I know who fits such a description.

[Your Vest Friend]

Hmm, a main character that serves as the last of his one of a kind race before more eventually show up, and take over the entire narrative to the point where said clan are basically at the center of the entire story.

Hmm, what blue spiky haired asshole do I know who fits such a description.

Uh, I don't know anyone like that. Grover from Sesame Street?

[Sega DogTagz]

I'm with Vedi. The fact that it has never been specifically and explicitly brought up is dubious whether it has anything to do with their distrust at all since Sonic has gone rogue so many times that it might as well be inconsequential since it has been frequent. Not to mention, that their distrust has been said to be fueled by Naugus or,in the case of the pig, jealousy, not prior actions.

(As far as I am aware) Naugus can only fuel the fire of emotions that are already there. If Naugus promoted a general distrust of Sonic during the last few issues, he was only amplifying a feeling that was already a point of contention. The beef they had with Sonic was deep-seeded and indicative of an evolving (or in this case - deteriorating) relationship.

Sonic’s status quo has clearly changed. He and his team was free to save the world many times over and now he basically has to fight tooth and nail with the authorities to more or less do his job. Policy changed between war time and piece time. Sonic’s bucking of authority is much more an issue now.

As for the others you mentioned, maybe I need to elaborate myself. Brotherhood of Guardians does not measure up to something of consequence because their entire existence was to show how superior echidnas were to everybody despite being nearly extinct. I'm trying to think of an analogy for them besides the entire concept of them besides alluding to the horrible, terrible, and downright abysmal writing. Okay, who were these people and why should the reader feel invested in a group that A.) was set in their own setting apart from the majority of the cast and B.) was really only insulated as a Knuckles thing? Knuckles,himself, rarely appears anymore and when he does it isn't like oh shit, the Brotherhood of Guardians is gone now, all hell has broken loose.

The Brotherhood, while fairly insulated were still important to the lure of the comic series. They had a hand in quite a bit of what has happened since the beginning of the series. That alone makes their removal a marketable transition.

But, if you want a few other reasons as to why this is significant…..

1. Knuckles, as of Locke’s Death, is officially the Last Guardian.

2. With Haven abandoned, Dimitri is about to have full control of the facility, giving him tremendous power and monitoring capabilities.

3. The task of countering the Dimitri bloodline now falls to Knuckles.

4. The combined might of the Brotherhood was all that prevented Eggman from acquiring the Master Emerald during Sonic’s space adventure. With them gone, the task falls to Knuckles and the Choatix alone – creating serious implications for many of the series main characters.

All these things threaten to have a significant impact on future stories.

You could say Knux doesn’t appear more because the Brotherhood is gone now….. If this is the case, then the reader should really care about their demise. They should care a lot.

Why I call bullshit on the Knothole bombing because it seemed like the entire point of it was for Sonic and pals to change a physical setting. Immediately after saving the citizens...no scratch that, during the rescue, they immediately had a better place to live. Did Eggman gain anything after his defeat? No, it was typical. Did anyone suffer due to the change of scenery? No, the place was more accommodating than their previous residency.

Your being blinded by New Mobotropolis’s force-field. Yes, it’s a cushy change, but don’t go acting like there were no consequences from the shift. You cannot overlook that Charmy suffered quite a bit from that ordeal. Rotor’s back will also never be the same. We are down 1 original Freedom Fighter now. That’s huge. How can you say no one suffered? In the transition of scenery two heroes got effectively neutered. New Mobotropilis is nice, but it cost them Rotor and Charmy.

Eggy didn’t gain anything grom the defeat, but I would imagine that he lost quite a bit. I’m sure that loss didn’t do his eventual decline into madness any favors.

And while Sonic and Co. immediately were granted amnesty in the form of New Mobootropolis, you can’t ignore that the social landscape was dramatically shifted. Once they were in their new city, a political revolt took hold and changed the face of the crown.

The shift from Knothole to New Mobotropilis was so much more than a physical change. The social shift crippled what little free range the Freedom Fighters had left and in many ways it changed the game. Mina came back to find the ashes of the place she called home. Eggman called out the weakness of Elias rule in front of all his subjects. Sonic lost to the Egg Beater…… that’s not a meaningless transition. Crap got shaken up. Stuff got turned on its head. Dare I say Jimmies were rustled.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Soniman]

Hmm, a main character that serves as the last of his one of a kind race before more eventually show up, and take over the entire narrative to the point where said clan are basically at the center of the entire story.

Hmm, what blue spiky haired asshole do I know who fits such a description.

Th.....there was a hedgehog clan?

[Kuzu]

Th.....there was a hedgehog clan?

Its not from this series, but its from another well known series that turbo hates.

[Vertekins]

Its not from this series, but its from another well known series that turbo hates.

Bravehog from Sonic the Comic? I thought that was a target of near-universal hate amongst Fleetway fans?

[Mangoaxe5]

Update on the Ken Penders case.

Allegations of Missing Archie Contracts in Penders Case

Attorney Claims Archie ex-VP Spallone Knew of Lost Docs

If you wanted to see a game changer in the Archie v. Penders case, here it is.

What little documents that were available from a heavily protected opposition to Archie’s motion for summary judgment was obtained by TSSZ through public records as of Friday morning. Multiple affidavits from past freelancers on the Sonic comic, including Scott Fulop, Mike Kanterovich, Justin Garbie, Karl Bollers, and others are inaccessible due to a protective order. That means we don’t know what any of them said specifically; what we do know from our previous coverage is that in the event of a trial, Penders’s defense planned to call all the aforementioned and more to testify they were not bound to an Archie work for hire contract for some or all of their time with the company.

The list of defense affidavits also includes Fred Mausser, who was once Archie’s co-president and director of circulation. While he was with the company as late as 2009, it now appears that is no longer the case. Like many of the others, we have no idea what he submitted in his affidavit to the court.

But there was one notable affidavit available for review, penned by Penders’s attorney Michael Lovitz, and it may be the most important public document in the case to date. Lovitz’s affidavit, in part, makes allegations that constantly contrast with words ex-Archie VP of Finance Ed Spallone offered in his own affidavit. We told you previously that Spallone, once planned as a defense witness, submitted an affidavit in support of Archie’s Motion for Summary Judgment, and said he signed Penders’s work for hire agreement.

While Spallone said in his affidavit that “ACP [Archie Comic Publications] did in fact send these agreements signed by me out to Ken Penders and that ACP did receive these agreements back from Ken Penders, signed by him, several weeks later,” Lovitz alleges in his affidavit that with one exception, Spallone said in conversation he had nothing to do with any Penders agreements in question:

Mr. Spallone stated that as VP of Finance, he had no involvement with, and was not responsible for, editorial agreements such as the “Revised Newsstand Comic Independent Contractor’s Agreement” or the “Licensed Comic Books Independent Contractor’s Agreement,” and never signed such agreements on behalf of ACP, with the exception of one event.

[....]

During these interviews, Mr. Spallone specifically told me that he did not recall sending Mr. Penders a contract in 1996, or ever receiving one in return from him.

That one event, it turns out, concerned the budding popularity of the Sabrina the Teenage Witch television series in 1996, which was a co-creation of Archie writer George Gladir. Lovitz alleges in his affidavit that in order to prove the company’s ownership of Sabrina, Archie sought a written agreement from Gladir that, in a nutshell, intended for Gladir to sign his rights away:

Because the “Sabrina” television series had quickly proven to be very popular, Mr. Spallone explained that ACP was extremely concerned once they discovered they no longer had any of the signed creator contracts, and therefore no documentation to prove ACP’s ownership of the Sabrina character. As a result, Mr. Spallone explained that ACP decided they needed to secure a new, signed “Newsstand Comic Independent Contractor’s Agreement” from Mr. Gladir in order to confirm their ownership of the Sabrina character.

Mr. Spallone stated that, although the primary purpose for sending out these contracts was to get George Gladir to sign away his interests in Sabrina the Teenage Witch character, ACP wanted to hide their true intentions in hopes of avoiding having to pay Mr. Gladir any compensation or royalty for the television series based on his character.

And no wonder Archie was allegedly so eager for Gladir to sign another agreement. You may have caught the line in the passage above about how Archie allegedly had no signed creator contracts on file. Before Lovitz explained this particular case, he noted that Spallone allegedly told him Archie lost their original creator agreements on file in 1996. We emboldened the most important section:

During these interviews, Mr. Spallone explained that there had been a problem discovered in 1996 concerning ACP’s contracts with its artists, writers and other creators. Specifically, Mr. Spallone stated that it was ACP’s routine to store contracts in a box in the company’s on-site warehouse. Further, during the time he was VP of Finance, he was aware that ACP routinely hired short-term employees to work in the warehouse; however, ACP learned that one or more of those employees had proven to be either untrustworthy or incompetent. In the fall of 1996, ACP discovered that all (or a majority) of the creator agreements housed in the ACP warehouse had been destroyed when the box containing the contracts was discarded by one of the short-term warehouse employees.

Lovitz says in his affidavit that the exact time the box was “discarded or destroyed” could not be determined; the most anyone knew about the accident is that it occurred in 1996.

Why might this be important? The work-for-hire agreement entered into this case that Archie says Penders signed is dated December 12th, 1996 by Penders and November 25th, 1996 by Spallone–but according to Lovitz and the interviews he allegedly conducted, Spallone has no recollection of any Penders work-for-hire agreements crossing his desk. What’s more Lovitz noted in his affidavit that when he served Archie with a demand of inspection regarding Penders’s contract–in effect asking Archie to show the original signed agreement on file–Archie objected, called the request, “irrelevant,” and, in Lovitz’s words, “stated that the originals had been lost or destroyed, that ACP had located copies of the originals, and that copies of these copies had previously been produced to Defendant’s counsel.”

The bottom line is that someone at Archie may have made a crucial error in 1996 with many or all freelancers’ contracts, and for that reason, the original contract Penders allegedly signed may not exist. The fact that it may open up a Pandora’s Box for Archie contributors of past and present aside, that’s enough of a reason for Penders and his defense to question the authenticity of the copied agreement supplied to them, and it may be enough for a judge or jury to take those doubts seriously. The question will then become whether a copy in this instance will be considered a valid, enforceable contract.

What’s more, with the level of contradiction Spallone appears to make between his affidavit and the alleged conversation he had with Lovitz, someone may be perjuring himself. That could open up a world of trouble for whichever side is determined to be culpable of it.

Affidavits from Scott Shaw and Elliot S. Maggin were publicly available, and we’ll peek into those early next week.

Source: http://www.tssznews..../#comment-96538

[Phos]

The idea of this comic being drug down by a dumb squabble over what is the closest thing to a real life analog of to a continuity error that I can think of is only too fitting. It's funny because it also has parallels with the current plot, it seemed like it was going to be a focused plot with some complex issues only for more and more plot threads to be dumped on it like so much background noise.

[Alejandra Fox]

What's happened recently in the comics had me running back to SSMB to read opinions. Antione, Bunnie, Ixis, Hershey, the hatred towards Nicole and New Mobotropolis. yikes!

I've always been very open about how the comic/games etc. are done, and I like the dramatic change of pace, but I do wonder how permanent everything is...

I know this is going to sound bad, but I'm looking forward to Sonic losing his cool for a bit. Gonna be epic although he may regret whatever action he does after.

[Voyant]

and I though why, after the death egg, and the Rouges arc, does Sonic not seem completely bent out of shape, its literally been one lost after another.

Well it it was easy to get him worked up it wouldn't be as large of an impact to the reader...in-fact if it were to happen easily then it would be uncharacteristic of him, but at this point it would be bad writing if Sonic didn't have a moment were he lost his cool.

I like when heroes have a moment of grief and rage...it makes them seem a lot more down to earth.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Voy-Boy

[bwrosas]

Update on the Ken Penders case.

Source: http://www.tssznews..../#comment-96538

Well it it was easy to get him worked up it wouldn't be as large of an impact to the reader...in-fact if it were to happen easily then it would be uncharacteristic of him, but at this point it would be bad writing if Sonic didn't have a moment were he lost his cool.

I like when heroes have a moment of grief and rage...it makes them seem a lot more down to earth.

if that was to happen and was the case, they would need to inform people like Ian Flynn and anyone else working on both comics, that the overall (Comic) series was ending, thus this would allow them to wrap up the current story arcs faster and sooner then they planned on, this way they don't pull a (SatAM & Underground & X) cliffhanger in the books.

This is why I agree that the partnership wouldn't end so soon. Besides as many have pointed, the comic's are one of Archie's and Sega biggest money makers. So why would they end the partnership because of Bull**** like this one involving Penders. I just don't see that. Do you?

Edited March 10, 2012 by bwrosas

[Your Vest Friend]

1. People on the SEGA forums already said this, but comics are FAR from being one of SEGA's biggest money makers (Archie, maybe, but they're irrelevant since they don't call the licensing shots).

2. No they don't. Often these sorts of things occur over the period of 2-3 months, with staff being a lesser priority for warning (so, the editor would be the first to know, but only after the nix has already been done higher up). A lot of comics cut out in the middle of stories if they get axed.

3. Erm...what did that have to do with what Voy-Boy was saying, anyway?

[Voyant]

1. People on the SEGA forums already said this, but comics are FAR from being one of SEGA's biggest money makers (Archie, maybe, but they're irrelevant since they don't call the licensing shots).

2. No they don't. Often these sorts of things occur over the period of 2-3 months, with staff being a lesser priority for warning (so, the editor would be the first to know, but only after the nix has already been done higher up). A lot of comics cut out in the middle of stories if they get axed.

3. Erm...what did that have to do with what Voy-Boy was saying, anyway?

Thank you for translating what he said in English.

I didn't reply because I didn't get all with what he was saying....

[Arcade Racer CC14]

Just got SU #38 in the mail! Stay tuned for the full summary! In the meantime, the 5 page preview is up on Destructoid!

[Your Vest Friend]

So, are Snively and Hope half-siblings or full siblings?

[bwrosas]

STH151NicoleFan's

Sonic Comic Theories

Mobius years later. What can be said about this topic. Many have felt that it is part of the Sonic comic books continuity. Well others say that it's not canon. Now both sides may be correct in some ways. For those that say that MXYL is part of the comic book continuity, they have valid points. As a matter of fact one fan over at a certain popular media site recently as of tonight did a 8 1/2 long minute theory on why they feel MXYL is part of the continuity in some ways. One of the things they bring up is the resurgence wars and the elemental wars that were discussed and talked about and briefly mentioned it if you will by Antoine and Bunnie's son Jaques in the last two to issues of the MXYL saga that was presented in the Sonic Universe comic.

You may ask yourself why this fan brought this theory up? Well from what they can see in the more recent events of the main comic and the SU comic, they feel there could be some truth behind it. The reason they think and theorize this belief, is because of what will be happening in future issues. One of the things they brought up was the Ancient Onyk aka the black chaos Emerald, for which Tikal and Chaos resided in. They feel that with this theory that this could be the beginning of the aforementioned wars that were briefly mentioned in the MXYL Saga. Which in turn they feel, from what I read, they feel could bring Tikal and Chaos together as Tikahos. Now I remind you that these are just theories that this fan over at this media site is thinking of, and feel could be closer to the truth and closer in connection to the MXYL then anyone could have thought.

I understand and I'm sure this fan understands that nobody will believe these theories. However there might be one theory or maybe two that they may agree on. What might those be you ask? Well the first one has to do with Snively and the missing blue chaos Emerald. For you see this fan feels that there is a connection between Snively and the missing Emerald. Because they believe that Snively has the missing Emerald. You may ask why that might be the case? According to this fan, Snively was the first one to report the Emerald missing, and most recently as of issue 234 and issue 37, has finally decided to take matters into his own hands and finally overthrow Dr. Eggman, as well as at the same time free his beloved Queen Regina. Now to me as somebody that read this theory, I have to agree with it. Because even though I have yet to open any of my subscription issues, from the summaries I have read and from the theories and predictions that I have watched and read, that have been provided by other fellow Sonic fans. When you piece these pieces of this very puzzle together, it all makes sense.

Now the final theory is actually a theory I talk about myself in a two-part audiovideo, but it seems that I'm not the only one. For you see just like those that have written about it and have talked about it, this theory has to do with one Hershey the Cat. Now of course many have speculated possibly the same theories and thoughts as this fellow fan has. And that being of course after 233 and even before that, that Ms. Hershey is alive and well and undercover as part of the Mobius South American Dark Legion. Now for those that ask why people may speculate this. It's because when you look at one of the upper panels in the mid pages of issue 37 you will see a female legionnaire being confronted by one of the grandmasters. And then you add in the description for issue 237 in a few months that a mysterious figure is tracking Sonic, Tails, and Amy, one can guess and wonder as to who that could truly be that is following them.

Now please understand that these are just theories that this fellow fan and friend of mine came up with tonight.

Now I did not mention all of what they said, you will have to read it yourself. But let's just say it has some to do with the 3 spirits that have awakened inside Ixis Nagus, as for the rest you have to read yourself.

Good night