Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[GentlemanX]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Meanwhile, Pontac and Graff constantly got shit from the fanbase and they got the boot swiftly.

I agree with most of your post, but Pontac and Graff were Sega's go to writers for at least English localization for a decade: Sonic Colors (2010) to Team Sonic Racing (2019). They did not get the boot "swiftly", it was after a very long, sustained period of frustration about their extended tenure and style of storytelling coupled with a similarly vocal and persistent campaign to hire Ian instead.

[E-122-Psi]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

So basically, the Freedom Fighters are in the wrong for not knowing that there was a techno witch that could turn their A.I. ally (who has NEVER gone rogue or had any inclinations beforehand) against them even though they only just knew this person existed recently? In addition to that, while the citizen's worries are valid, effectively treating Nicole, who need I remind you is a sentient person at this point, as if she's a danger even though once again, she's never displayed any inclinations towards going rogue. 

The point here is that they shown that NICOLE doesn't have to WANT to go rouge. She had an enormous weakspot. Sure the techno witch was a rare instance of her being overpowered, but it shown very much that if they kept NICOLE as she were now, and another villain found a way into reprogramming her, they would be SCREWED, and neither the Freedom Fighters or NICOLE were demonstrating enough that they were taking measures to ensure that wouldn't happen again and instead made themselves look incredibly complacent even after they JUST got outfoxed and many civilians suffered for it.

Again Eggman and multiple other villains were technological wizards. While NICOLE had overpowered them at this point, who was to say they wouldn't find a way around it eventually, especially since they damn well knew Eggman upped his game nearly each and every time. Them saying 'Oh well that will never happen' would just be a further demonstration of complacency.

And this is not about Flynn being singled out, it's the simple fact that if he and the comics want to look like a 'big boy story' with serious stakes, emotions, politics, and repercussions, they'll get rated as one. Flynn's comical works like X and Boom are flawed too, but I can enjoy them more for the simple fact they don't try to have their cake and eat it too, wanting the grandeur of an 'epic' but handwaving over the details afterwards. If anything Flynn can handle a simple parable about a protagonist flaw like arrogance or hypocrisy better in those works, because there's not a ton of fridge horror to deal with.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I really need to get caught up with these issue revisits.

That said, I don't really think it's bad writing for the heroes being treated as the bad guys here, in a way. For a start, the entire story is meant to be a culmination of the Iron Dominion arc. And what Kuzu has said is true, the heroes didn't know that a techno wizard would take over Nicole, but it's a moot point if they did or not. The problem is that a techno wizard did take over Nicole, and as a result, the heroes were thrown out of the city, the city was turned into a living prison, many Mobians were forcefully legionised against their will, and the heroes just want to reinstill the status quo after everything is said and done. 

It's not just about Nicole going rouge, it's about the level of power she holds over these people, and Ian set that up way earlier. Look back at how Nicole was capable of just appearing in Sonic's room during the House of Cards arc for example, and how even Sonic noted how he'd have to get used to her being able to do this stuff. At the end of the day, the point is against Nicole's will or not, there's consequences to someone having this level of control over a city like New Mobotropolis, and while it is contradictory to now claim she can't see everything when what we've seen to this point has shown the contrary, it doesn't really have an effect.

The heroes call out Mina for going against Nicole because Nicole is their friend and she's already made it clear that she feels terrified and worried to be among people following the Iron Nicole episode. They believe in Nicole's heroism and her ability to help others, but that's because they're long time friends of Nicole. Mina's been gone right up until Mogul Rising, meaning she missed more or less all of Nicole's development prior to the Iron Dominion arc. All Mina and the other people know is that they're living in a city that could, and possibly would be turned against them at any second, and the heroes don't really wanna do shit about it. They're kind of in the wrong for being confrontational to Mina and not being able to get it through their heads why people might be terrified and paranoid about Nicole being present. 

That's of course without the evil wizard also spreading his magic in order to heavily increase the level of paranoia and hate the people are feeling, which only contributed to the problem, and I think the issue itself is really about Naugus being the bad guy, given his entire point was heightening discourse and spreading panic to bump himself into power (Sounds like Scarecrow more than anything lol), but in the issue of Mina VS Sally/Sonic, I can't really help but at least agree that Mina has more than a reasonable fear of Nicole, and the heroes basically sticking their fingers in their ears because they know Nicole isn't really the greatest solution. Hell, all it takes is the Iron Queen escaping again (which does happen to screw everyone over again).

[E-122-Psi]

10 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I really need to get caught up with these issue revisits.

That said, I don't really think it's bad writing for the heroes being treated as the bad guys here, in a way. For a start, the entire story is meant to be a culmination of the Iron Dominion arc. And what Kuzu has said is true, the heroes didn't know that a techno wizard would take over Nicole, but it's a moot point if they did or not. The problem is that a techno wizard did take over Nicole, and as a result, the heroes were thrown out of the city, the city was turned into a living prison, many Mobians were forcefully legionised against their will, and the heroes just want to reinstill the status quo after everything is said and done. 

It's not just about Nicole going rouge, it's about the level of power she holds over these people, and Ian set that up way earlier. Look back at how Nicole was capable of just appearing in Sonic's room during the House of Cards arc for example, and how even Sonic noted how he'd have to get used to her being able to do this stuff. At the end of the day, the point is against Nicole's will or not, there's consequences to someone having this level of control over a city like New Mobotropolis, and while it is contradictory to now claim she can't see everything when what we've seen to this point has shown the contrary, it doesn't really have an effect.

The heroes call out Mina for going against Nicole because Nicole is their friend and she's already made it clear that she feels terrified and worried to be among people following the Iron Nicole episode. They believe in Nicole's heroism and her ability to help others, but that's because they're long time friends of Nicole. Mina's been gone right up until Mogul Rising, meaning she missed more or less all of Nicole's development prior to the Iron Dominion arc. All Mina and the other people know is that they're living in a city that could, and possibly would be turned against them at any second, and the heroes don't really wanna do shit about it. They're kind of in the wrong for being confrontational to Mina and not being able to get it through their heads why people might be terrified and paranoid about Nicole being present. 

That's of course without the evil wizard also spreading his magic in order to heavily increase the level of paranoia and hate the people are feeling, which only contributed to the problem, and I think the issue itself is really about Naugus being the bad guy, given his entire point was heightening discourse and spreading panic to bump himself into power (Sounds like Scarecrow more than anything lol), but in the issue of Mina VS Sally/Sonic, I can't really help but at least agree that Mina has more than a reasonable fear of Nicole, and the heroes basically sticking their fingers in their ears because they know Nicole isn't really the greatest solution. Hell, all it takes is the Iron Queen escaping again (which does happen to screw everyone over again).

Pretty much. Again I feel like there was a good idea here, but the truth is the story doesn't seem particularly invested in showing the Freedom Fighters in a flawed light, at least in any way they ADMIT they are flawed and have any sort of development from it, they don't move on the matter at all beyond 'Don't hurt NICOLE's feelings'. By the end of it, it feels like only Mina has subsided and felt she has made any mistakes in how she went about things, part because the Freedom Fighters have FAR more important things going on by then.

At the very least I think it was a VERY bad idea to start the Mecha Sally arc before they'd finished up this one. A more delicate same-field political war involving Naugus feels like maybe it should have gotten main focus before they tried anything like that, especially since Sally is a character most befitting of being involved in such a conflict. It truthfully almost felt like when they figured out all the sensitive repercussions they just pushed a big 'Abort' button.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

From what I’m learning—and I’m not gonna lie, I read this from one of the wikis, so take how you will—they had much longer term plans intended with the Mecha Sally arc’s aftermath. Something about them reverting her to normal, only for it to be a fake and the real one in cryostasis some where and they had to go find that one in the five-year arc after that? (And tell me if that doesn’t sound awfully similar to Endgame? )

Now either that’s a case of being extra prepared for the hiccups that later threw a wrench in those plans, or your usual beef with them not being able to get to an end. I dunno, seems like there’s just a small snippet of how they planned to pace the pre-genesis wave stories.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

30 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

From what I’m learning—and I’m not gonna lie, I read this from one of the wikis, so take how you will—they had much longer term plans intended with the Mecha Sally arc’s aftermath. Something about them reverting her to normal, only for it to be a fake and the real one in cryostasis some where and they had to go find that one in the five-year arc after that? (And tell me if that doesn’t sound awfully similar to Endgame? )

Now either that’s a case of being extra prepared for the hiccups that later threw a wrench in those plans, or your usual beef with them not being able to get to an end. I dunno, seems like there’s just a small snippet of how they planned to pace the pre-genesis wave stories.

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing it on Ian's unused concepts page:

https://archiesonic.fandom.com/wiki/Ian_Flynn's_Unused_Concepts

I don't know, I'm having a hard time buying the idea of them doing a whole fake-out on Sally's derobotisation, especially with the controversy surrounding Endgame's scrapped plans for Mecha Sally.

[Zaysho]

2 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

From what I’m learning—and I’m not gonna lie, I read this from one of the wikis, so take how you will—they had much longer term plans intended with the Mecha Sally arc’s aftermath. Something about them reverting her to normal, only for it to be a fake and the real one in cryostasis some where and they had to go find that one in the five-year arc after that? (And tell me if that doesn’t sound awfully similar to Endgame? )

Now either that’s a case of being extra prepared for the hiccups that later threw a wrench in those plans, or your usual beef with them not being able to get to an end. I dunno, seems like there’s just a small snippet of how they planned to pace the pre-genesis wave stories.

He more or less hints here that Naugus's magic, or maybe just magic in general (Chaos Emeralds?), would have restored her. Examples given that Bunnie previously couldn't be de-roboticized before and the Nanites were being converted into grass, so it'd follow Eggman's modifications could have been undone.

I'm sure he planned pretty far ahead before the lawsuit screwed things up (starting pretty much immediately after Team Fighters' formation) but the cryostasis/fake/real stuff really doesn't sound like his type of stories even in long form.

[E-122-Psi]

I definitely feel like they bit off more than they could chew with the Mecha Sally arc, to the point that after a while it almost came off like they knew their days were numbered and just padded it out, especially how everything just got more irreversibly gritty and they didn't even try to resolve ANY of the arcs they had started within the span they had (besides Sonic forgiving Silver, likely because it might be considered a blemish on his character to leave it unresolved even with a reboot).

It really came off like the WORST POSSIBLE curtain call for all the Archie exclusives that got retconned out, who were pretty much all in a miserable position by the end of it as a result of all these arcs not getting conclusions. Especially Mina who was kinda left in a 'Ron the Death Eater' position with most of the heroes, besides NICOLE herself.

[SkyHorizon]

19 hours ago, Kuzu said:

 

Once again, this is straight up ignoring what the story is actually saying and goes back to what I said about expecting the characters to be omniscient and have the same knowledge that we the readers have, and then calling it bad writing. In addition, it's also speaking completely in hindsight as the problems never presented themselves until they came crashing down at once. 

So basically, the Freedom Fighters are in the wrong for not knowing that there was a techno witch that could turn their A.I. ally (who has NEVER gone rogue or had any inclinations beforehand) against them even though they only just knew this person existed recently? In addition to that, while the citizen's worries are valid, effectively treating Nicole, who need I remind you is a sentient person at this point, as if she's a danger even though once again, she's never displayed any inclinations towards going rogue. 

 

Like, are we reading the same story??? I'm starting to feel like Flynn should just stop trying to go for these types of stories less because they're "flawed" and more because the nuance just tends to go over Sonic fan's heads and just want to watch Sonic smash robots and say funny one-liners. I'm not even saying his writing is perfect or anything, but I really do feel like people are grasping at straws in trying to criticize him at this point. Its not even constructive anymore, because any time I see anyone on here or anywhere else criticize Flynn, it's always accompanied by the most negative interpretations of his work. 

And this has been happening for the 15 odd years he has been writing for Sonic; if Ian Flynn was honestly this terrible, and flawed writer as most of his detractors claimed he was, he wouldn't have kept his job for over 15 years, brought on to write in another book, and now currently being brought on to write for the games. I acknowledge the man's flaws, but I'm really kind of tired of reading how his flaws are exaggerated into something being bigger than they actually are. 

 

Meanwhile, Pontac and Graff constantly got shit from the fanbase and they got the boot swiftly. I don't always jive with whatever Sonic fans complain about every single week and I honestly don't care, but I vastly prefer Flynn's work to theirs even though he's not perfect, but like....there's not a single creator in existence who is 100% flawless. So if Ian Flynn's flaws are just THAT annoying for people, then I have to start wondering why do so many people continuously engage with his work and then get upset about it. 

Yeah, you precisely said what I was trying to explain to @Rienasketch. In fact, she's extremely biased against something, but I can't understand if it's against some characters (Sonic) or against Ian's writing. I explained (multiple times) that Mina's argument IS PERFECTLY VALID. What I constested (and was clearly shown by Ian) was the way she acted, again, like a bitch, publicly insulting and humiliating someone who was a person with feelings. Which was also the objection Sonic and especially Sally moved to here. 

@RienasketchAlso, sorry to tell you this, but you totally do not understood how the "burden of proof" works. I suggest you re-read about it to understand why said burden is on you and not on me.

[Mauro Fonseca]

The only fake-out with Mecha Sally, as far as I recall, was the Krudzu, which, again IIRC, Ian said was a plot element he added in (the "the Krudzu is a bio-organic element so it might be able to deroboticize things") simply to fill time before the reboot and wasn't actually going anywhere

[E-122-Psi]

3 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

Yeah, you precisely said what I was trying to explain to @Rienasketch. In fact, she's extremely biased against something, but I can't understand if it's against some characters (Sonic) or against Ian's writing. I explained (multiple times) that Mina's argument IS PERFECTLY VALID. What I constested (and was clearly shown by Ian) was the way she acted, again, like a bitch, publicly insulting and humiliating someone who was a person with feelings. Which was also the objection Sonic and especially Sally moved to here. 

@RienasketchAlso, sorry to tell you this, but you totally do not understood how the "burden of proof" works. I suggest you re-read about it to understand why said burden is on you and not on me.

The thing is though that you cannot dismiss someone's point just because they were rude about it.  Yes you can call them out on it, but they seemed to use that claim to dismiss and sidle around Mina's argument altogether.

And even then the coldness was pretty two way since as mentioned Sonic and Sally were acting pretty inconsiderate considering the casualties at hand, and the fact they even straight up dismissed them as 'ungrateful' for wanting SOME sort of proof of precaution against anything like it happening again over 'sparing our friends' feelings'.

Hell Sonic and often even Sally are the definition of a jerk who often has a point after all, having insulted, defied or outright blackmailed other heroes or authorities who oppose them because they have a valid stand to take. What's the difference with Mina?

[Kuzu]

58 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

The only fake-out with Mecha Sally, as far as I recall, was the Krudzu, which, again IIRC, Ian said was a plot element he added in (the "the Krudzu is a bio-organic element so it might be able to deroboticize things") simply to fill time before the reboot and wasn't actually going anywhere

So there was nothing he had planned for Mecha Sally in the long term?

[Razule]

12 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

So there was nothing he had planned for Mecha Sally in the long term?

She was supposed to be deroboticized in 250, before the crossover and reboot happened.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing it on Ian's unused concepts page:

https://archiesonic.fandom.com/wiki/Ian_Flynn's_Unused_Concepts

I don't know, I'm having a hard time buying the idea of them doing a whole fake-out on Sally's derobotisation, especially with the controversy surrounding Endgame's scrapped plans for Mecha Sally.

 

9 hours ago, Zaysho said:

He more or less hints here that Naugus's magic, or maybe just magic in general (Chaos Emeralds?), would have restored her. Examples given that Bunnie previously couldn't be de-roboticized before and the Nanites were being converted into grass, so it'd follow Eggman's modifications could have been undone.

I'm sure he planned pretty far ahead before the lawsuit screwed things up (starting pretty much immediately after Team Fighters' formation) but the cryostasis/fake/real stuff really doesn't sound like his type of stories even in long form.

I read the cryostasis/fake/real Sally idea here under the Background Information of Mecha Sally’s page, and it was said that it was Ben Gates revealed it.

I mean, I didn’t check the source beyond that—I skimmed it, brought it up there, and I was a little skeptical myself too (hence why I shared it with you guys in case I was missing something). But yeah, just sharing that out there in case it was worth mentioning. It might’ve tied with Naugus using magic to restore Sally post-250, but of course the lawsuit screwed those plans.

[SkyHorizon]

34 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I mean, I didn’t check the source beyond that—I skimmed it, brought it up there, and I was a little skeptical myself too (hence why I shared it with you guys in case I was missing something).

I think I'd heard something similar about restoring Sally around 250, but the rest of the summary (body switch, 5 years search for Sally) looks like bs to me...

[Rienasketch]

5 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

Yeah, you precisely said what I was trying to explain to @Rienasketch. In fact, she's extremely biased against something, but I can't understand if it's against some characters (Sonic) or against Ian's writing. I explained (multiple times) that Mina's argument IS PERFECTLY VALID. What I constested (and was clearly shown by Ian) was the way she acted, again, like a bitch, publicly insulting and humiliating someone who was a person with feelings. Which was also the objection Sonic and especially Sally moved to here.

 

I'm not biased against Sonic. Critical of Flynn's execution to a degree? Maybe. But come on. Maaaaaybe I can excuse him for forgetting that tidbit with minor characters like Bernie/Jules that happened almost 100 issues ago. But the crux of the plot relied on plotholes of events too big and recent at the time to ignore. How does he quickly forget the Kingodm of Acorn has power rings that cure brainwashing when it was used in the last arc with Khan who was a major character? And were then used to sustain Antoine later in this arc? And furthermore, how can I even be biased against the heroes when I made the claim I didn't even think many of them like Sally were being written in character to begin with? I can't see her being complacent in even the possibility of letting NICOLE go through that again. Especially when so little is known about the IQ and how she even got that power from their perspective.

But I did acknowledge he had a good premise and I specifically said that Sonic's reactions were fairly in character. It was in character and that the way he reacted wasn't what bothered me. Its now the story refused to acknowledge where he went wrong and constantly tries coddling him, while admonishing the citizens for having valid concerns.

Like @E-122-Psi said earlier, if Flynn wants to make a serious political plot with high stakes, then he has to be judged on that level.

Part of my issue with you, as well as the story itself, is this habit of trying to excuse the actions the main "favorite" characters while putting extra scrutiny on other characters that aren't liked as much or who "we're not supposed to care about". I conceded that Mina was misguided and irresponsible to a degree for the way she acted -- particularly in the sense she tried rallying people with no plan; the equivalent of screaming fire in a crowded theater. Sally was right about that, but lets face it, she and Sonic were hypocrites by refusing to seriously acknowledge the problem, letting it get bigger and then whining when it blew their faces. With Mina, her actions were easier to swallow -- at least for me -- because at least she could acknowledge where she went wrong. Whats particularly annoying about Sonic and Sally's portrayal especially is that neither of them seemed to gradually acknowledge their own flaws and where they made mistakes. They just point the finger at Mina and everyone else for having valid concerns they refused to acknowledge.

Whats more, you can't quite say Mina was acting anymore "like a bitch" for calling out NICOLE, than anybody else in this arc when she made the song. None of the heroes were displaying they cared about were how the citizens were suffering beyond how "they" were being inconvenienced when again, the backlash blew up in their face. And Mina made the song on the assumption NICOLE knew people's feelings and knew what she was planning (even if that part wasnt true) but didn't care. Not because she was trying to be mean-spirited. If you felt your government, law enforcement, etc. were ignoring your needs and feelings and the safety of your loved ones, would you be a "bitch" for calling them out on it because it hurt their feelings? You're putting double standards on Mina you wouldn't apply to yourself, family or loved ones.  Or the heroes themselves.

 

5 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

 

@RienasketchAlso, sorry to tell you this, but you totally do not understood how the "burden of proof" works. I suggest you re-read about it to understand why said burden is on you and not on me.

 

Dude we've moved past this. Just because your saying I can't prove Mina spoke to Sonic doesn't mean she didn't. It means the technicalities are unclear. So even if I'm wrong in saying definitively that she spoke to Sonic, that doesn't make your claim that she "didn't" speak to Sonic right, either. Nor does it even matter because whether she did or didn't its understandable she wouldn't want to talk to Sonic anyway given his dismissive attitude towards the whole thing. Regardless of how you wanna spin this, Sonic still screwed up. Trying to bring up technicalities regarding the "burden of proof" isn't going to change that.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

23 minutes ago, Rienasketch said:

Like @E-122-Psi said earlier, if Flynn wants to make a serious political plot with high stakes, then he has to be judged on that level.

And as fair as that is, I want to add to this by saying that judging Flynn on such a level doesn’t mean to use it as an excuse to complain.

Not calling you or anyone else here out Rienasketch—I actually haven’t really been following your debate, just that this part of your post stuck out to me. Just that we had people use the addition of in-universe politics as a pretext to complain instead of treating it as part of the world building, especially in this case since there was never really meant to be a right answer for both sides regarding the NICOLE issue, for example.

[Dr. Detective]

Archie Sonic the Hedgehog - Free Comic Book Day 2011: The Rematch

It seems like you guys were left with a LOT of stuff to talk about in my absence. Holy crap. I'd better get this in before I get pushed back another page. Last week was only the second time I’ve missed an update. The first was because I was so busy that it was just impossible to do it. This time it was because I went on a trip and couldn’t use the wi-fi for my laptop while I was there. That would have been necessary for posting but super necessary for this issue in particular since I actually don’t own this one. I have no clue what’s in store for me here… until I read it and find out all over again that I did in fact read it, like all the other free comic book day issues. Also, being really, really fucking sick isn't helping either.

Spoiler

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Steven Butler
Inks: Rick Bryant
Colors: Steve Downer
Letters: Patrick Williams
Editor: Paul Kaminski
Editor-in-Chief: Victor Gorelick

This issue actually begins directly where the last issue left off… I think. 

Call me crazy or maybe I’m misremembering but I don’t recall Sonic standing on a huge hill at the end of the last issue.

Maybe he ran up on the hill to make sure it was what he thought it was before shouting, “Yarr, it be the Death Egg! Tharr she blows!”

Don’t know why the urge to make him sound like a pirate came over me but hopefully I still made my point.

Of course, the issue does that thing they usually do where it feels the need to recap for us. Sonic recapping his life’s story with the Death Egg literally hovering over the city feels unnatural and off but they try their best to make it seem not that way with his writing.

Though I love Naugus’ face here.

I know he’s supposed to be looking up at the Death Egg but when I first saw this it seemed more like he was noticing the memory panels above him and going “What the shit?! Where’d these come from?!”

Also, he is drawn excellently here. Dude looks like he could tangle with the best of them from the Marvel universe. Those super villain speedos really sell the look. 

Of course, this is the only page where this happens, technically, as the real story is here in flashback land where we get a, shocking, re-telling of the events of the worse Sonic Super Special issue, Issue #15.

You all know the one. It was the one with all the horrible, egregious lazy cut corners with the same two backgrounds cut and pasted across 48 pages to scam people into buying a higher priced book. Whenever the characters were actually drawn, they looked like crayon scribble scrabble.

We’re already off to a bigger and better foot with this one. I had almost forgotten that my man Eddy died to save Sonic, Tails, and Nate. 

Nate, who by the way, is pretty much dead now too so… 

You know, I don’t quite know why Ian was the only one who got painted with the “killing characters” brush. Between Nate, Eddy, E.V.E, Mellow, that weird gorilla dude that showed up in Knuckles’ shitty book only to get immediately killed, and a few others you’d think Penders and Bollers would face similar scrutiny. It’s probably because Ian’s thing was front-loaded with his first couple appearances on the book. When the clean-up was finally done the reputation had already stuck.

Anyway, as for this re-telling, it certainly already looks way better.

I love the flow of the fight that happens next.

He comes across a cave full of magic rings and sees Naugus there. He’s surprised because he thought he was trapped in his freaky dimension but then he laughs and says “Lol nope. I escaped bitch” before proceeding to try and freeze his ass multiple times.

I appreciate how jank Sonic’s approach to Naugus is here. He definitely isn’t coming out of this looking like he’s got it all put together.

First, he fucks up when he tries to get the jump on him when his scarf gets caught on a rock, alerting Naugus to his presence.

Then Naugus freezes his feet and he has to try and stand there looking intimidating in a bow-legged stance.

Then Naugus uses the frigid snowy atmosphere outside the cave as some sort of hyper beam that tracks Sonic all throughout the area. 

He actually goes YIPE!

It’s adorable.

Anyway, he does the very cool but predictable move of having his ice beam hit Naugus instead but being the master of the elements, he breaks out of it while Sonic in the middle of gloating by using the part of him that can create fire.

The fight continues on like this and it’s a very glorious and powerful looking one that has the onslaught of fire and snow look terrible and tough to combat.

It feels like a massive apology for what that initial Super Special issue was doing and it's coming from a man who had nothing to do with why that first one was so awful to begin with.

Here, all the shit we couldn’t see, we can and it looks amazing. 

The way it’s being told is different, of course, but it all still works. You wouldn’t know this takes place around the #70s in the book’s run had Sonic not mentioned just getting Mobotropolis back from Eggman.

Eventually, Sonic hatches a plan to utilize the rings in this cave to overpower Naugus and send him back to his zone. He manages to do this when Sonic jumps on the ring pile and Naugus tries to bury him in the rubble.

Sonic bursts out of it, now powered up, and uses them all like he intended.

I remember a form of Sonic’s having those black stars around him but man, I gotta say, it’s a pretty odd color to choose for a power-up form brought upon by golden rings. It doesn’t really sit right with me as far as the aesthetic goes.

Thankfully, I’ll never see it again.

Afterwards, Sonic talks about how happy he is that he was able to save the rings that Eddy cherished that were made by his master from being used for evil. I’m sure that offers a great amount of comfort to them both since they’re both gone now. Or, at least, I hope it does. Nate deserved way better than what he got. For real.

We cut back to the present where Sonic is standing right next to that same man again. 

Since I’m a sucker for the hero and the villain being forced to form an alliance of convenience I cherish the moments where they talk on equal footing like this a lot.

The Death Egg is like “I STILL SEEEEE YOUUUUU~!”

I know that all it has to do to generate menace is to just float there. Eggman doesn’t even really need to say or do anything but I like the fact that he doesn’t mostly because it’s a little funny. It’s also a very fun power play on his part.

That was a very fun, expected surprise. I actually hadn’t read that one before but I’m glad I did. You could replace that with the actual Sonic Super Special #15 and you’d get a way sweeter deal out of it for FREE. The strength of the Sonic brand truly was impressive back in the day if old Archie was able to coast on all the weird, strange stuff it did before it got infinitely better. I guess Bollers and a few others kept the reigns going when Penders was busy losing his goddamn mind on the page but even Bollers had a few stinkers and strange story beats as well. 

Oh and the art was great. It was just Steven Butler flexing all over the page. His style for Sonic may not be my favorite but he makes sure to let his strengths shine whenever he works on an issue, that’s for damn sure. No way in hell he’d pull a “Many Hands” with this one, whoever “Many Hands” actually was. Probably the Archie Sonic equivalent of Alan Smithee. 

Archie Sonic the Hedgehog - Issue #225: One Step Forward…

There’s already so much to talk about here and I haven’t even really read the first page of this one yet. I think back in the day I was surprised when I saw this cover and how huge it was. I had forgotten that it wasn’t a front to back cover but one that was folded under itself so that it could spread out. That, to me, is the better way of doing it. Makes it feel more like a cover for sure. It was also a good call getting Spaz back for this cover. Jesus, the threatening aura of that Death Egg in the background is nothing to sneeze at. It doesn’t look a thing like the one in the book but that’s not to it’s detriment at all.

However, back to why I was surprised when I initially saw this cover, I actually didn’t know that milestone issues were done every 25 issues. It seemed weird to me that Issue #225 would have been something special but I totally get it now. It’s odd for a comic to go on for so long. The constant #1s that go on sale for the sake of generating interest in something that’s supposedly new (only to fail) make observing something that can go on for this long uninterrupted astounding. Even if Archie and Penders didn’t end up doing the dumb shit they did it’s hard imagining this comic still being around today even. Although, I don’t know what else would have caused it to drop off aside from those two.

Also, I haven’t once mentioned the “Countdown to Genesis” thing on the covers lately. Yeah, that’s a thing that happens. Both me and Ian Flynn aren’t fans of that story but a lot of people tell him they really liked it so I guess it was good for something. Me? I’m honestly still confused to this day why that four-issue interruption had to happen but we’ll see if my mind has changed upon revisit. I doubt it but I’ve been shocked and surprised before. 

Spoiler

Sally is Dead Variant

Variant covers aren’t a thing I’ve had to worry too much about leading up to #225 but they will be going forward. I know this is called the “Sketch Variant” but I decided to give it a more appropriate title. We’re celebrating this milestone issue with Sonic rushing to see his girl gunned down by a wall blaster.

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Tracey Yardley
Inks: Terry Austin
Colors: Matt Herms
Letters: John Workman
Editor: Paul Kaminski
Editor-In-Chief: Victor Gorelick

The first page of this issue we get a nice recounting of all the foreshadowing leading up to this moment from various issues, including the free-comic book day one that at the time of reading this issue back in the day, I probably hadn’t read yet.

The Baron’s line there at the end always felt like a weird typo or something. It reads like he’s panicked, sure, but I think they wrote “It don’t matter” twice on accident here.

“It don’t matter what this refinery is for! It don’t matter He’s built a refuelin’ station for something bigger than he’s ever flown.” 

It doesn't quite flow right and there’s no period at the end of that part either. Very odd.

Still, it’s a nice way to bring everything around. I love that so much can happen at once like this. 

Tails is a stuttering mess when he arrives with Amy and Sally. 

Naugus is more intrigued by this. We get a scene of someone frothing at the mouth with anger followed by someone attempting to be rational and putting a plan of action into motion.

Guess which characters do which.

Yeah, Amy isn't much for looking dignified lately. Seeing her constantly screaming and spewing literal spit from her mouth at someone who isn’t the real issue at the moment versus what happens directly below the panel probably does paint a picture that some wouldn’t be all that into.

Her anger is totally understandable of course and Geoffrey’s response is legitimately funny but I could do without seeing this version of Anger Amy for a while. There are some things I’ve grown to appreciate about how she’s changed over the years, believe it or not.

Anyway, Naugus agrees to the truce and takes off.

Apparently Sonic found that creepy.

*Shrug*

Anyway, they head off. Geoffrey is surprised they want him to come along but it’s mostly to keep an eye on him. They’re all convinced that wanting Naugus to be king means wanting them all dead which is a completely fair assumption to make. 

When they take off Geoffrey and Amy have a much better interaction where he tells her that she’s not that threatening and she says “You keep telling yourself that”. 

As for Eggman, he’s chill-axing in his cockpit with Lien-Da and Snively helping him pilot his brand new toy. Snively tells Eggman that someone is coming to intercept them. Eggman is drooling with excitement at the idea that it might be Sonic but it’s actually Ixis Naugus, which blindsides Eggman like you wouldn’t believe.

Then Eggman tries to remember that chaos is at work here to calm himself down. It’s the logic he used to work himself back from the brink of insanity. Well, from the brink of his loss of lucidity I should say.

I love that Lien-Da’s reaction to seeing Naugus for the first time is “What IS that?”

After he recovers, Snively tells Eggman that Sonic is inbound and Eggman immediately begins on a train of confusing the hell out of his subordinates.

He’s a wonderful man that Eggman. Giving Sonic a sporting chance against his genius. Such a nice guy.

No, but I recall this being a really fascinating use of Eggman’s character here. These bits going forward where he does the weird, un-obvious thing and refuses to press advantages that either of these other two totally would for the sake of his weird whims is why he is who he is. 

Eggman follows this up by also showcasing what a delightful monster he still is of course. When Naugus flies up to the Death Egg and fires his crystalline magic at it, it does nothing.

Naugus is shocked that it doesn’t work and we get a small cut to Snively telling Eggman that the Power Ring internal matrix is holding. 

Eggman’s response is “See Snively? With an army of slave laborers, you can collect enough rings to accomplish anything!”

Yeesh. 

Outside the ship, Sonic is whining about how stupid he feels for not figuring out his plan because of how paranoid he was searching through the wreckage for clues before. Sally is ignoring him and searching the Death Egg for a patched up entry way for Tails to shoot.

She tells Tails to fly around the back and blow the entry-way open. Sonic asks her how she knew to do this and her response is “I figured he would patch our entry point at the last second to maintain his charade”.

I’ll be honest I have no clue what she means by that. The caption box in the bottom corner helpfully points out that she’s talking about that weird entry way from Issue #199 but I don’t quite know what the words Sally said in that sentence means. I assume it just means she knew Eggman would put that entry way there. He’s apparently super easy to read.

Also, Eggman is aware that they’re aware that he’s easy to read because when Lien-Da reports the breach that just happened, Eggman is unsurprised, saying “Of course they did” and that they did it sooner than he expected.

Lien-Da is about to get super upset with him, asking if he wants them to ruin his plan before it can even get off the ground but Eggman shoos her off and asks Snively if stage one and stage two of his plan are going well. Snively just gives the reports without question and then Eggman flies off to go deal with the two of them in person.

Snively is so fucking done. 

I feel him. I’m so done with being sick right now. It’s more annoying now than anything.

Fun-fact, every time I’ve tried to write “Lien-Da” I’ve had to stop myself from writing “Julie-Su” instead on accident. 

The heroes breach the breach that Eggman wanted them to breach and then Sonic and Sally have their extremely weird, lovey-dovey dive for glory into the Death Egg.

Gross.

Also, that looks like it would be really painful. Am I the only one who thinks that wind resistance would not be kind to their teeth smacking against one another in free fall like that?

Anyway, they make it inside and once they start to walk forward a little crab robot starts patching up the way they came in and sealing them inside.

They have a small chat about how it doing that would keep them stuck inside but Sally opts to not destroy it, instead wishing to use Eggman egotism to their advantage by willingly falling into his trap.

Very… interesting idea there Sally. 

I wonder how that decision is going to turn out for you in particular…

Well, maybe I shouldn’t be worried. She is the masterful tactician that came up with the “Dog-pile on Super Scourge” strategy after all. I’m sure this plan of hers will be just as huge a success.

Sally follows that brain blast of a plan up by whipping out Nicole and asking her if she’s managed to discover anything. Nicole has nothing. Then Sally feels this is an opportune time to ask her how she’s feeling and Nicole says that she would prefer to focus on the mission right now. If I were Nicole, I'd have said the same thing. 

I get that Sally is concerned for her but yeah this really isn’t the time.

Fortunately, she’s snapped out of it when an elevator opens up right in front of them. This hilariously sets Sonic off yet again.

It’s great how pissed he is. For all the doctor’s faults, it’s stuff like this that reminds you why he’s the genius and why Sonic’s just a dorky teenager with a race-car bed. 

What happens next put a huge smile on my face though.

I recall not liking the scene that happened next here because all I remember focusing on was how Sonic wasn’t taking any of what was happening seriously. However, upon re-reading it, I’m realizing that what’s happening here is way better than that.

Sonic and Eggman are meeting up again for the first REAL time since issue #200 and are shooting the shit with each other.

When Eggman sicks the Silver Sonic on them, Sonic’s excitement comes with the acknowledgement that it almost killed him last time, which is funny, because Eggman brings up the possibility of Sonic being a masochist in their back and forth.

He sends up Silver Sonic, telling Sonic that he can’t have an audience with him until he proves that he’s still got it, which is a delightful way of putting it. It’s like meeting up with old friends again.

Also, look at this thing.

It’s ridiculous that it’s so huge and sharp that it has to tear away the elevator in order to enter the room. Part of me wonders if Eggman made that elevator smaller than it on purpose just so it could look cooler tearing it’s way out of it like that.

Sonic and Eggman are having loads of fun here. The only one who isn’t is Sally which officially makes her the unwanted third wheel in this relationship. I finally understand the SonicXEggman ship you guys. It only took until this very moment.

Sally then has an entire page dedicated to her via Eggman completely dunking on her. 

In some ways what Eggman says here is true. Although, I would like to clarify for him that the weakness she inherited from her father manifested itself as "mercy" for her while for him it was just "sheer stupidity and gullibility". 

King Max is not only the reason Eggman is here right now but he’s also the reason Naugus is trying to take this kingdom and the reason Geoffrey "betrayed" it. 

What really sells this page is the epic grumpy face she’s making as she’s getting dunked on. She has no idea what’s about to happen to her.

Granted, given her actions, you’d think she would have known better.

Snively cuts Eggman off from his gloating to tell him that stage one of his device is charged and ready. Snively then tries to stutter out a concerned belch about how what Eggman is about to do will affect them all. Eggman just tells him to grow up and that he won’t feel a thing, as he walks over to his bottle of champagne in a bucket of ice and a tall glass.

Sally tells Sonic that they’re out of time once Eggman says over the intercom that he’s about to fire his weapon, whatever it is.

Sonic makes mistake number two for their infiltration here and keeps playing around with Silver Sonic.

Sally makes mistake number three and runs off by herself down a random hallway in the middle of the fucking DEATH Egg asking if Nicole can trace where Eggman’s voice was coming from. She has no idea where she’s going but it doesn’t matter because as soon as she enters the hallway, the Death Egg does what it’s designed to do.

It does DEATH.

There’s so much to love about this page.

The fucking directness of the gun coming out of the wall with the loud BLAM BLAM BLAM echoing in the distance to snap Sonic out of his fun loving daze and punish him for not taking this robot seriously is excellent. 

It’s followed up by Silver Sonic punching him in the chin juxtaposed with Eggman holding up a glass of his drink while activating his weapon. He’s literally toasting to Sonic getting both a blow to the face and to the heart on this page.

The swiftness in which he took care of Sally is monstrously wonderful too. He wants his showdown with Sonic to be something big and epic but I’ve always felt like the way he views all the others could be rife with opportunities for quick and ruthless stuff like this. 

To him Sally is probably just someone he can taunt and make fun of for the sake of a quick little boost to his ego before disposing of her purely for the sake of dealing heavy damage to Sonic. 

Although, at this point, I feel the need to say something that I don’t know if I’ve been super clear on before this point. This may sound insensitive, especially to her fans and especially considering what just happened but… it is a little distracting that Sally’s even here at all.

I admire that Ian’s trying his best to reincorporate her into the story in a way that does away with the intensely unforgivable and disrespectful mistreatment that Penders sullied her with but the more this book has gone on the less it’s managed to sell me on Sally being someone that should be out in the field in THIS capacity. 

Put her in the field as a strategy leader, absolutely, but why is she dive bombing head first into the fucking Death Egg with no one else but Sonic there to protect her? He’s obviously going to be busy dealing with all the horrendously dangerous stuff inside which just leaves her open to all the traps and shit stuck in there on her own.

Sally isn’t a completely defenseless person. She can fight and she can do some flips and kicks but it’s never come across as anything impressive. Certainly not anything that would justify her running down a random hallway in the middle of the new fucking DEATH EGG.

Either way, it’s what needed to happen for the good of the story they were trying to tell and it works marvelously from a narrative stand-point despite that little pressing matter concerning her character.

Eggman does the thing and makes a wonderful… wonderful fucking victory pose as he ignites the Genesis Wave upon the world.

At the time (and even right now still) I was confused about what exactly it was he was trying to accomplish with this plan. The story that follows this I don’t remember answering my question to that either BUT that could just be me not caring because I read through it once and then never again.

It wouldn’t surprise me if upon re-reads of the past I would have skipped over the Genesis arc.

The thing I love the most about these bright white two pages is the expression of sheer victory on one side with Eggman paralleled with Sonic’s sheer terror and fear on the other.

I wonder how many people fell for this back in the day.

I know that probably some children and some of the overly emotional and reactiony weirdoes on a few random forums probably did but I wonder how many rational people with respectable opinions thought that this was it for Sally. That's not me calling anyone out. I'm genuinely curious. 

I’m having a hard time recalling what I remember thinking of this moment. I think I was probably hoping that it would stick, or at the very least, lead to something that felt like a huge consequence.

The former didn’t happen but the later definitely did. Oh boy, did it ever.

What ends up happening was definitely the better decision. Execution on how the arc that follows that decision manages itself is ... up for debate.

… Oh, and by the way, that’s it.

That’s how the comic ends. 

There’s no ending caption box or dialogue balloon.

Nothing.

Well, if you turn the page there’s the same stuff there is at the end of the book but in the pages proper it just stops. It doesn’t interrupt the flow of terror that it just instilled on it’s audience with a “come back next time to see what happens” or anything like that.

It knows it doesn’t need to. Your ass is coming back to find out what the fuck just happened.

I would have gone further. Yeah, that’s right. Since this death is restored after the Genesis Wave is reverted, I would have just gone whole-hog and had Eggman start murdering everyone. Why not? Because it’ll scare the kiddies? Pssha! No it won’t. You know for a fact that they would have eaten that shit up. I know I would have.

Okay but seriously folks, that FELT like a milestone issue if there ever was one. What a nice way to reintroduce Eggman as a threat to the narrative. I don’t have too much nostalgia for the classic Sonic games since my investment started with SA2:B (and a VHS tape of AoSth) but even I was feeling it a bit with the way Sonic and Eggman’s banter was being carried across, all the way down to the Sonic 2 feel of having Sonic invade another Death Egg and face off against another Silver Sonic. 

He’s with Sally instead of Tails which does sour it a bit for me. Honestly it would have hit WAY harder if Tails was the one who got gunned down instead of her as some sort of dark alternate parallel to the way things happened in Sonic 2 but this is still a very effective decision. My man certainly knows how to get a person hooked. 

Now strap in because we won’t come back to this scene in particular for about eight issues.

 

Sonic Universe - Issue #29: Scourge: Lock Down - Inside Job, Part 1 of 4: Rock Bottom

Hey y'all! Now we’re taking a break from that mean ol’ Eggman’s nasty Genesis Wave to venture into what’s happenin’ outside of it in the space beyond and in-between. Here, those guys with Z’s in the front of their names (before those OTHER guys with Z’s in the front of their names appeared) are put in charge of handlin’ everyone’s favorite villainous variant associated primarily with the color green. Welcome to the TVA. Thanks for stopping by.

Spoiler

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Tracy Yardley
Inks: Jim Amash
Colors: Steve Downer
Letters: Phil Felix
Editor: Paul Kaminski
Editor-in-Chief: Victor Gorelick

I’ve made it no secret up to this point that I hate the entire Zone Cop thing and the way it’s been used in the comics to undersell the narrative by basically having it be that Sonic is considered the primary version of all the Sonics in the multiverse or whatever. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the stories associated with them weren’t very good or made little sense.

Even what little I’ve seen Ian utilize of them up to this point has only served to make me wince a bit. The explanation that they can’t handle the Robo-Robotnik turned Eggman that’s rampaging in Sonic’s universe because Sonic’s universe apparently needs a Robotnik-Prime and that one is “close enough” felt like it happened to try it’s best to plug up some holes in the fabric of this concept. However, it really only served to make it stand out as even worse.

I’ve since grown to feel as though the concept here isn’t necessarily the issue though. Like with most things, it’s the execution and on that front Ian was kind of out of luck. There’s only so much flex tape you can try and wrap around a hole this huge.

I have a feeling, however, I’ll see the makings of something a little more open and intriguing for this story concerning the Zone Cop thing. Not only that but I also champion the idea of the Destructix being given their own focus and opportunities to flesh themselves out too. It actually did make me happy to experience it back in the day and I feel like I’ll like it even more now.

This arc was one I remember enjoying. I understood that it wasn’t going to be as epic a prison break as Impel Down but prison break stories are still exciting when they happen regardless. Of course, the main focus isn’t that. It’s all in the character development.

Character development that ends up being in service of nothing because this will be the last arc for the Destructix, Fiona Fox, and Scourge the Hedgehog.

As I go further and further down the line I find myself having to say goodbye to more and more characters and it becomes an increasingly harder thing to deal with each time it happens. Our last venture with Scourge here begins with him at his absolute lowest and most pitiable position. 

Yes, probably even lower than that time he got knocked out by an Antoine who accidentally smacked him in the face without realizing it.

He recounts his past up to this point to help us really bask in how far he’s fallen. He outright says that he used to be a nobody due to the book’s initial take on him being an “Evil Sonic” from an “Evil Mobius”. It’s not the first time Penders’ very lazy and lame handling of his initial characterization has been called out but I would say it’s probably the most direct. Nothing wrong with that though. That’s about what Penders’ writing deserves.

Here he’s so pitiful that he’s actually getting bullied and beaten up all the time. It’s kind of strange more than anything. He talks about how he could take them easily before but now he can’t. No reason is provided for why he can’t yet though. It’s as if he’s allowing them to do it because he’s been emotionally beaten down to the point where he just doesn’t fight back.

That idea is probably a sound one but what makes it strange, or rather ‘interesting’, to think about is the fact that he’s still very much portrayed as a horrible person without a remorseful bone in his body. 

He doesn’t regret the actions he’s done. Just that he failed to keep it going and ended up here. 

I would be pretty resentful of that too, honestly. Imagine being haunted by that one mistake of depowering yourself on purpose because Sonic taunted you into doing so and ending up like this because of it. Maaaaan…

Of course, the big thing is that he considers the people who are actually nice to him when he gets beaten up to be “worms”. That’s what he refers to Al and Cal here as. 

Horizont-Al and Verti-Cal here are characters from a story I read in this book from what seems like eons ago. So if it seems like eons ago for me, then at the time this came out, it must have felt like eons times ten for those reading. 

They have these very Elmer Fudd-ish, Mike Gallagher-ish designs that remind me instantly of old Archie and the AoSth weirdness it was doing back then. Even back when I initially read this arc and had no idea who these two were or where they came from in the book’s history, their designs stood out as something from a different era. 

Luckily, you don’t need to have read their previous story to understand who they are. That little blurb sums it up nicely, though, you’d be forgiven for being confused by the very different designs they have AS Gods.

It is interesting thinking about Scourge being such a popular target for beatings in this place though. I can’t help but wonder why. 

Is it because he looks like Sonic? I bet it’s because he looks like Sonic. A lot of people would get a lot of mileage out of the excitement that comes with kicking Sonic’s butt.

Then again, it could just be that he’s new. He observes that possibility himself when he notices a new shipment of “fresh meat” coming in for the prisoners to pick on.

We then meet Warden Magellan, I mean Warden Walker, I mean Warden Eggman, I MEAN… Warden Zobotnik.

He’s happily escorting a bunch of prisoners into the jail, gloating about how his perception of space is correct, before we get a scene of him and Zonic talking in a way to emphasis that the words they’re saying, they mean in a literal sense.

The amount of bolding in these next two pages with these two characters seriously took me back to the old Ken Penders days for a second. Talk about being authentic.

I will say that it’s interesting that talks of Dr. Nega are still happening here. Obviously they can’t ignore the fact that it’s a thing since Dr. Nega has been established now as a huge thing that fucked up a huge swathe of their operation… but it really is standing out even more now that the dude isn’t being referred to by Dr. Eggman Nega nor has he had an actual, physical appearance aside from that one Off-Panel. 

An Off-Panel that I believe Ian Flynn was worried they might have gotten in trouble for.

The dude is off-limits. It couldn’t be anymore obvious at this point but I admire the continued strides to acknowledge his importance to these Zone Cops and what they’re doing. Plus, I feel as though something could have been done to write around this eventually. Like, maybe, use the fact that Dr. Nega hasn’t been seen as a way to set-up a nice twist where it’s not actually Eggman Nega but someone else who has a similar name. Or something.

Who knows what could have been really?

The main point of this scene is to establish the warden as another sleazy Robotnik-type and to show Fiona and the Destructix being brought in from the Prime Zone.

Zonic warns Warden Zobotnik that they did a lot of damage before they were brought in and they have ties to Scourge so they need to be watched. Cocky Zobotnik says that no one has ever escaped his prison and he goes on to say that he’s been seeing to it that Scourge’s "rehabilitation" has been going well.

I can’t hear that word without thinking of Igor’s “HOW GOES THE REHABILITA-!” and then I just cut him off so I can fuse some Personas.

Scourge’s rehabilitation is a bit more mean spirited though and doubles as another reason why he keeps getting targeted.

In the first scene we’ve got someone shaving his quills down. I recall this being a very powerful image back then and it still is looking at it now. Ian recently got a question on the podcast asking about whether or not Scourge was in pain here. I don’t entirely recall his answer to that question but I think he may have leaned more onto the side that said it was just supposed to be a scene of Scourge showing defiance for getting his quills cut. As for whether or not it hurts, who knows?

It certainly LOOKS like it hurts though. It’s always tough trying to tell if the hedgehog’s quills are treated like hair or actual quills in this fantasy series. 

The second panel is of him going down to where he’s supposed to sleep, carried by a dangerous looking elevator. 

The third panel is kind of hilarious. An asshole variant of Big the Cat has stolen Scourge’s mattress and is using both his own and Scourge’s to sleep on… while on the top bunk. So not only is this fat ass sinking down and squishing Scourge below him, but Scourge is sleeping on springs, which looks like the most uncomfortable of uncomfortable sleeping arrangements I’ve ever seen.

You might as well just sleep on the floor if this is your lot in life.

Then the final one is him being used as the ball in sports. That one is just humiliating and sad.

There are more. 

He’s seen reading a book literally titled “How Not to be Seen” taken from his hands by two prisoners there to beat him up. 

He gets shoved in a dryer which, I feel, has to be a reference to AoSth.

And then we’re just left with him eating, or perhaps just swirling his food around on his tray, alone at lunch.

Until Al and Cal show up to try and be buds with him. They tell him that five people from the Prime Zone are here, which surprises Scourge a lot. Earlier it was stated that the Prime Zone doesn’t get inmates really.

I’m NOT surprised by that considering the bullshit reason Eggman was just allowed to waltz into that zone and become the new Prime villain but I guess there would be exceptions.

Smalls the Cat (lovely, wonderful, beautiful fucking name) shows up to bully Scourge and Scourge tries to tell him to lighten up a bit for a literal second so he can go do something he wants to do and that minor infraction is enough to TRIGGER Smalls and get his face smashed into his food.

It’s like… Jesus.

At this point, it’s nay impossible for a sensitive boy like me not to feel sorry for Scourge. His treatment here almost makes Simian and the Destructix showing up to surround the table almost look heroic.

Then Fiona comes in and explains the plan to her broken baby only to get screamed at and walked off on.

It’s nice to know they’re still friends with Finitevus.

I’d imagine that if the comic were to continue, we’d probably get like a cover where Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and maybe the Chaotix, were juxtaposed with Scourge, Fiona, Finitevus, and the Destructix. That would have looked sweet.

Still, it’s nice to hear about Finitevus being an active force in the plot one last time even though he won’t be seen again.

That small cameo of Mephiles and Void was cute. I hope you all enjoyed that for what it was and didn’t make baseless, weird theories about what the true underlying meaning behind it is.

The more obvious and pressing takeaway here is that Scourge is clearly traumatized by his experience here in prison. He’s not just worried he’s going to get beat up (although he’s plenty worried about that) but rather that he’s going to get killed.

It’s funny because he could totally take all the people bullying him under normal circumstances but a handicap that we learn about later plus emotional and mental stress has probably jackhammered his self-esteem into oblivion without remorse by this point. When an entire prison is painting a target on your back off the back of the biggest failure you’ve suffered in your entire life, how could you not end up this way?

The Destructix are all a little out of sorts here, giving Fiona looks of “Yo, what the shit?” at that earlier display. I would be on edge too if I risked being thrown in the universe’s biggest prison to break someone out only for them to stomp off like that.

Of course, you really get a sense of just how in the shit Scourge’s mindset is here as he walks away.

I swear, this Anti-Geoffrey has made it a career of his just lording himself over Scourge. He stole his position and gang once when Scourge was first captured by Zonic and now look at him. He’s still under this asshole’s thumb. 

The bigger thing though is how Scourge was hugging himself, talking to himself, and panicking about that scene that happened back there. Observing the mental break of someone trapped in a prison isn’t something that’s easy to witness without a sense of empathy washing over me. The prison system already has a lot it needs to answer for so I can only imagine how much worse it must be in a place as messed up as this.

It’s also just really shocking seeing the once proud and cocky Scourge the Hedgehog acting this scared and pathetic. 

“Scared Straight” isn’t a thing that works. It’s mostly just a really cruel thing that amplifies the bad behavior inside of a young kid ever more. I’d imagine what this stress is doing is just messing him up even more inside. When he finally realizes that he’ll have an actual chance to change his situation, he’s going to take it and everyone who did him dirty is going to be on his revenge list.

I’m just saying that Warden Zobotnik probably should have thought his rehabilitation methods here through a bit more. It's clear he's partly responsible for the target on Scourge's back.

Anyway, Jeffrey St. Croix forces Scourge to have an audience with former King Maxx Acorn. 

He’s an old man who somehow manages to command respect in a prison setting. I don’t know exactly how but he talks about how he somehow managed to conquer the Zone of Silence when Scourge banished him to it and used a Nightmare Army to invade the multiverse.

It sounds pretty boss but the only clue I’m given of its authenticity is a note that says “as mentioned in Sonic Select Vol. 4” which I didn’t read.

This was and probably still is the most confusing element of this story to me, bar none. However, the most interesting thing about it is that the Moebius version of King Max that Scourge usurped to become king himself is still an asshole.

He’s just more of a traditional, evil fictional king. The King Max in Mobius Prime radiates a lot of old man energy in ways that make him a product of his time. He’s a person who’s old man values and privilege define him. This guy is apparently just an evil dimension hopping old man Ronan from Guardians of the Galaxy.

He brought Scourge here to tell him that he’ll be killing him now that he’s apparently attempting to usurp him here at the prison. They made a deal that if Scourge never challenged his power then his gang wouldn’t kill him but Fiona and her group showing up was enough proof for him that Scourge was trying to do that. 

So Scourge’s fears were completely well founded. It doesn’t even matter that he didn’t actually have anything to do with this. 

“Leave enough of him to be identified” he says. Holy Shasta. 

Then, we witness a moment where Scourge momentarily fights back, regaining a bit of his lost pride at the very edge of his teetering life… only for him to be beaten back down to reality in an instant.

Not to worry though, the cavalry has arrived.

Then once the cavalry beats his opposition up, the cavalry then rubs it in his face.

Oooh~! Scourge just got owned by Flying Fucking Frog. 

Scourge must be great at the limbo because we’re seeing first hand just how low he can go.

It wouldn’t look out of place to see him cry right now. 

Here we get an extra explanation for why Scourge can’t fight back as well as he should be able to.

Of course, this inhibitor ring thing applies to every inmate here so you could maybe see this as just an excuse he’s making. The real issue seems to be what he says at the bottom of the page where he doesn’t want people bullying him anymore and that he just wants to be left alone.

Once again, It’s so sad and strange seeing Scourge like this. The faces he makes remind me the most like Sonic then ever before. His vulnerability is making him come across as more relatable than ever too. I more than anyone in my immediate family know what it’s like to just want to be left alone. Especially when it’s because you just don’t want to deal with the hassle of being the target of ridicule from bullies and jerks. 

Now, Scourge totally is one of those too but he currently isn’t acting like it, which makes it a lot easier to empathize.

That is, until he and Fiona start talking again.

It’s funny looking at that cute, innocent looking face he’s making and then actually reading the speech bubble and how horrible the things he’s thinking and saying are. It’s kind of excellent how this comic is getting across to me feelings of pity despite also keeping me conscious of the fact that he’s still a monster.

Also, in one of the panels above, Fiona told Scourge to be honest with himself about the fact that when he says he shouldn’t need anyone’s help because he became king of his world, what he actually did was beat up a bunch of regional bosses and say that made him king.

It’s interesting because of his past as former royalty. He’d probably be able to sell that to the masses a lot better than not.

I was also informed of this by someone waaaaay earlier too. I didn’t realize it was said THIS late into the series after my initial reading of the King Scourge material though. Using this tidbit in a conversation with me probably wasn’t the best move considering I wouldn’t have had any frame of reference for it just yet but that’s something people just tend to do regardless so whatever.

Either way, we end on Scourge finally being reinvigorated to get his groove back.

It’s going to be quite the interesting deep dive we’ve got awaiting us next. I’m really excited to revisit it.

Scourge’s character continues to be one of the best and most interesting of the bunch that Archie has to offer, to date. It’s very easy to look at this character from the outside and make assumptions that aren’t true but actually reading what he’s going through and how he reacts to things is always fascinating. This is like Ian getting a chance to fully explore and play with Sonic’s character by utilizing a character that’s supposed to be the opposite of him. So much about Scourge says so much about Sonic and vice-versa and it really makes you wonder how similar or how different their handling of this prison situation would have been if the shoe were on the other foot. 

No matter what, the ambition to get what they want is something both Sonics seem to have so we’re about to see it put into motion for the last time. 

[Rienasketch]

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

And as fair as that is, I want to add to this by saying that judging Flynn on such a level doesn’t mean to use it as an excuse to complain.

Not calling you or anyone else here out Rienasketch—I actually haven’t really been following your debate, just that this part of your post stuck out to me. Just that we had people use the addition of in-universe politics as a pretext to complain instead of treating it as part of the world building, especially in this case since there was never really meant to be a right answer for both sides regarding the NICOLE issue, for example.

 

I don't think there was a fully "right" way any of them acted tbh.  I've made it a point to say in previous posts that I think almost everyone made a mistake. What I didn't like though, was how it felt like the story was trying to make me push towards this assumption that the heroes were right and everyone else who disagreed with them was wrong. Particularly because we see how characters like Mina and even Geoffrey slowly reflect on their mishaps, but we never see the protagonists do the same. If anything it made me feel more pity and interest in both the minor and hell even background characters (ex: Raccoon Mario and Female Klonoa LOL! I think there was even a magical girl who attended the concert and one inspired by Samba de Amiga? Ben Bates' art was fantastic.) while eventually feeling more detached from the lead heroes who were -- with the exception of maybe Amy, starting to feel like an exclusive club at the expense of everyone else who wasn't in the "in-group". I've been here awhile and normally I don't talk much about these issues, but this arc really stuck with me in both good ways and bad. And I felt the need to speak up about it.

 

[SanPolo4389]

1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Both me and Ian Flynn aren’t fans of that story but a lot of people tell him they really liked it so I guess it was good for something.

Wait he disliked Sonic Genesis (The Comic)? 

1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Variant covers aren’t a thing I’ve had to worry too much about leading up to #225 but they will be going forward.

Yeah this is the first variant cover of all Archie Sonic's run.

[Cuz]

I'd be willing to believe it's to do with cutting through the main plot like an execultive maindate, but I don't remember his stance for a fact.

Genesis is pretty good for what it is. Leaves me with a wholesome feeling. 

[Rienasketch]

19 minutes ago, SanPolo4389 said:

Wait he disliked Sonic Genesis (The Comic)?

I can kind of understand why from Flynn's perspective. Imagine going through all those lengths and being in the middle of an intense story arc only to be abruptly slapped in the middle with being told to write filler that wont have any relevance to the main plot. It wasn't the worst story, but not that engaging either. Especially compared to the main plot. 

It would be easier to overlook as its own story, but placing it smack in the middle of the arc like that? Its timing probably left a lot to be desired.

[SanPolo4389]

Ohhhhhhh, I feel like I should know that since that's what happened when Worlds Unite happened. 

So was it put there because of the 20th anniversary? 

[Razule]

44 minutes ago, SanPolo4389 said:

Ohhhhhhh, I feel like I should know that since that's what happened when Worlds Unite happened. 

So was it put there because of Generations? 

More like the 20th anniversary in general.

[Kuzu]

Y

1 hour ago, SanPolo4389 said:

Ohhhhhhh, I feel like I should know that since that's what happened when Worlds Unite happened. 

So was it put there because of Generations? 

World's Collide happened two years later in, this happened in 2011. 

And yea, it was because Sega demanded an anniversary issue. 

 

 

God, I remember being so annoyed by that. That was four irl months of the story being on hold just for a retelling of Sonic 1 and 2, but with the Freedom Fighters added for reasons. Its the equivalent of Bleach interrupting one of its own story arcs for a completely unrelated filler arc to pad out time.