Doctor Who

[Celestia]

Maybe I'm just hearing it wrong, but the commercials on Space for the next episode keep referring to it as the "season finale" rather than "mid-season finale". Hilarious.

Anyhow, I'm definitely hyped for the Angels returning.

I'll miss the Ponds, and I'm sure whatever happens that makes them depart from the show will crush my soul DAMN YOU MOFFAT be heartbreaking, but I think a new companion is just what the show needs right now. I'm actually surprised Amy and Rory have lasted as long as they have. I don't mind since they're some of my fave companions, but heck, Amy's been around for two and a half seasons, which is longer than any of the revival's companions. Even Rose only lasted two seasons, not counting reappearances. So I can see why a few fans have grown a bit tired of them.

I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season. 2013 is the 50th anniversary of the show, so I wonder if they have anything super special planned?

[Salamander]

Moffat and Matt have been talking in vague terms about the 50th now and then, but it's clear it's being made a big deal of. I remember Moffat reeling off a list of overblown adjectives he had planned for it at one point - epic, indulgent, everything you're expecting, things like that. The only real question is how many episodes it's getting, as there's widespread suspicion that the arrangement of series 7 is partly to account for the fact that the 50th won't be getting a full series.

As for Rory and Amy, I'm glad they've been around for so long. I think it's important that there's a wide diversity in lengths of time companions have been around so that we don't develop expectations - thinking of RTD's series, he changed either a Doctor or a companion per finale, and in retrospect it's pretty formulaic.

[Debug Ring]

I hear everyone saying "Oh, bring back some old Doctors!" and "Multiple Doctor episodes!" for the 50th, which, granted, would be a cool thing to see, but what I'd rather they did, is re-do some of the good old, classic doctor episodes, but with Matt, and the companion of the time. Like, re-do the episode 'The Daleks' or a classic Cyberman episode. (Not the tenth planet though, because of the regeneration). That's what I'd like, at least it's a bit more original than bringing back previous Doctors to work together, we've had a bit of that. I'd some re-makes!

Edited September 27, 2012 by Debug Ring

[Emperor Robrainiac]

I hear everyone saying "Oh, bring back some old Doctors!" and "Multiple Doctor episodes!" for the 50th, which, granted, would be a cool thing to see, but what I'd rather they did, is re-do some of the good old, classic doctor episodes, but with Matt, and the companion of the time. Like, re-do the episode 'The Daleks' or a classic Cyberman episode. (Not the tenth planet though, because of the regeneration). That's what I'd like, at least it's a bit more original than bringing back previous Doctors to work together, we've had a bit of that. I'd some re-makes!

I can't really see how remakes and original go together.

Seriously though... Sorry, but I'd be pretty disappointed if the 50th anniversary special was a remake of an old episode. I'd rather them come up with something new, be it bringing back the doctors (Despite seeing it being done a few times, but that never gets old IMO, and it'll be nice to see Tom Baker and David Tennant again.) facing against another form of the Master, or something... I'm personally sick of seeing remakes these days, and it would be kind of a cop out if they just re-wrote a script from one of the older doctors episodes.

That's my opinion anyway.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Lyra Heartstrings

[Debug Ring]

Sorry, but I'd be pretty disappointed if the 50th anniversary special was a remake of an old episode. I'd rather them come up with something new, be it bringing back the doctors (Despite seeing it quite a few times, but that never gets old IMO and it'll be nice to see Tom Baker and David Tennant again.) facing against another form of the Master, or something... I'm personally sick of seeing remakes these days, and it would be kind of a cop out if they just re-wrote a script from one of the older doctors episodes.

That's my opinion anyway.

I'd love to see Tom Baker again, my favorite Doctor, and he said he'd do it in an interview. Though I'd enjoy a multiple Doctor episode, I'd enjoy the updated version of an old episode a bit more.

I'm sure, what ever is being planned will be great, and with Moffat, there's a big chance it won't be either a re-make or a multiple Doctor episode.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Debug Ring

[Patticus]

I'm wondering if the 50th Anniversary episode might have the Doctor meet an old incarnation... his very first incarnation, in fact, from before the first 1960s series. This would allow a new actor to play the Doctor, and could open up some scope for a spin-off series chronicling the earliest adventures of the Doctor which would give us a good look at his early life and pre-war Time Lord society. It could be interesting...

[Emperor Robrainiac]

Well, I've finished the 9th doctor, and I'm getting started on the 10th... Killer Robot Santas? Hell yes, this is what sold me on this show in the first place.

Gotta start watching these episodes, fast, cause I realized this is taking up space on my DVR. XD

[Debug Ring]

Well, I've finished the 9th doctor, and I'm getting started on the 10th... Killer Robot Santas? Hell yes, this is what sold me on this show in the first place.

Gotta start watching these episodes, fast, cause I realized this is taking up space on my DVR. XD

Ah, good old number 10. I loved pretty much all of his episodes. I didn't like the Daleks in Manhattan 2 parter, I think one or two more. But the others are pretty good.

I remember putting of watching the End of Time for about 3 months because I didn't want him to go, but, Matt's done brilliant ever since.

Interview with Moffat about The Angels Take Manhattan!

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-Take-Manhattan

Picture gallery of the Angels take Manhattan

http://www.bbc.co.uk...leries/p00z41s1

Short clip from the Angels take Manhattan

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p00z3rxz

Weeping Angel image gallery

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p00z4dxh

Edited September 28, 2012 by Debug Ring

[Emperor Robrainiac]

You know, of all the fanbases I'm in, I really can't think of anything bad to say about the annoying vocal part of the Whovian fanbase. I've never even seen any part of the fanbase get obnoxious ever. The only thing I can really think of is the fans who wont give the original series a chance, but that could apply to all the fanbases. Don't get me wrong, there is probably rabid Whovians out there, but they don't seem to be as common as in other fanbases.

Then again, I'm pretty new to Doctor Who, so I may have not seen the dark side of the fanbase.

Pretty impressive that little to no haters as well. The only anti-Whovian I've heard of was the one who walked up to David Tennant and said "Hey! I hate you and I hate your show! "

Edited September 28, 2012 by Lyra Heartstrings

[Debug Ring]

You know, of all the fanbases I'm in, I really can't think of anything bad to say about the annoying vocal part of the Whovian fanbase. I've never even seen any part of the fanbase get obnoxious ever. The only thing I can really think of is the fans who wont give the original series a chance, but that could apply to all the fanbases. Don't get me wrong, there is probably rabid Whovians out there, but they don't seem to be as common as in other fanbases.

Then again, I'm pretty new to Doctor Who, so I may have not seen the dark side of the fanbase.

Pretty impressive that little to no haters as well. The only anti-Whovian I've heard of was the one who walked up to David Tennant and said "Hey! I hate you and I hate your show! "

You started at Ninth Doctor? Right? If you haven't seen them, you should watch from 1963's 'An unearthly Child'. AKA the first ever episode, and work your way back up to ninth after finishing Matt's. I mean, of course, visual effects weren't great, but the story pays you back for it. If you really want to get serious that is. Edited September 28, 2012 by Debug Ring

[Emperor Robrainiac]

You started at Ninth Doctor? Right? If you haven't seen them, you should watch from 1963's 'An unearthly Child'. AKA the first ever episode, and work your way back up to ninth after finishing Matt's. I mean, of course, visual effects weren't great, but the story pays you back for it. If you really want to get serious that is.

I'd love to see the old Doctor Who series sometime, but episodes are hard to come by, due to lack of money to get DVDs or watch them on Netflix, (Older episodes are on Netflix right?) and I hate torrents, cause every time I use them, I get a virus.

And due to stinking school getting in the way of my fun time, I've had little time actually watching the newer episodes. Damn it real life, If I knew you wouldn't retaliate, I'd kick you hard.

If I do get the time and money though, I'll check them out some time.

[Debug Ring]

I'd love to see the old Doctor Who series sometime, but episodes are hard to come by, due to lack of money to get DVDs or watch them on Netflix, (Older episodes are on Netflix right?) and I hate torrents, cause every time I use them, I get a virus.

And due to stinking school getting in the way of my fun time, I've had little time actually watching the newer episodes. Damn it real life, If I knew you wouldn't retaliate, I'd kick you hard.

If I do get the time and money though, I'll check them out some time.

It's weird for Netflix if your British, some Classic episodes are on there, some aren't, same with modern, there's no Matt episodes. But I think if you live in the US it's fine, if not, I use a program that pings my I.P to US and ping me all their versions of websites if I want to use them, really helpful with Netflix.

[PeanutButterDimond]

In the US, I think a lot of the old serials or so on from Classic Who are there but not really many episodes. "Cave of the Cyberman" is on there an a few others. On US Netflix, under "Doctor Who" are all of the new series episodes but none of the old.

As for bad sides of the fanbase, as a recent fan I haven't really seen any bad sides other than Old Who fans bashing new Who and vice versa and those complaining that Tennant is gone but those comments were on Youtube so I hardly take it seriously or count it.

[Debug Ring]

The big day is here! Any theories as to how the Ponds leave? I've got nothing, it's going to take me by surprise!

[Patticus]

When you find out and want to talk about it in here, spoiler box it.

[Debug Ring]

Of course! I'd hate to ruin it for people. I'm not like that. Though god I'm anxious to know.

[Debug Ring]

Okay, Angels Take Manhattan just finished. Wow, just wow. No complaints. The ending was brilliant, couldn't change it. But damn sad. I'm not going to say what it is, even spoiler it because I simply can't, I want to but, I just really can't. It was to great and sad for me to describe. If you want to know, just bloody watch this Companion ending. Just Wow.

[JezMM]

I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed.

Since when did angels come in giant size to be the statue of liberty? That wasn't explained at all.

I was actually somehow more okay with the Ponds' heroic sacrifice fate than the meaningless fate of a random unexplained angel survivor catching Rory off guard because he was too goddamn dozy (I mean geez he's had three series' to become genre savvy) to realise that something might just be up with a gravestone in the place he was just trying to be killed in the past in. Also why did the Doctor just leave the angel there?

Also... WHY can't the Doctor see them again? Okay, he can't go to New York/that time period/New York in that time period, but why couldn't the Ponds just... move back to england then the doctor picks them up a couple of years after they arrived?

All in all the whole thing felt so sudden and with so many things about the situation hanging unexplained and with such a reliance on Rory being incompetant for a moment.

Not the send-off the longest running companions thus far deserved really. It felt more like they were randomly the victims of a bad thing in a filler episode than a finale.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing.

The CGI on the building as they fell was awful and that sepia freeze-frame on the final shot was just... TOO cheesy. So those also kinda ruined it for me.

Edited September 30, 2012 by JezMM

[-Mark-]

I do think that

that final, inexplicably-surviving angel

was a completely ridiculous and unexplained asspull, but that's the only real part that brought it down for me.

I still loved overall how the ending was handled, even if it did feel a little 'forced plot convenience' at times.

[Brad]

Honestly, with a bit more emotional meat to the scene, I thought

Amy and Rory falling from the building together would of been the ideal way to go for them. There'd obviously be more reflection on their time together, a meaty scene between them and the Doctor and River before eventually deciding to go together. And for added drama, slipping a note into the Doctor's jacket as a final farewell (reference to: find all sorts of random things in my jacket)

After re-watching this episode a few times now, I can't say it was still the best way for them to go - and the way they left felt cheap - but I've come to recognise it as a stronger episode than I originally gave to it.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Zero-Boom

[Salamander]

Since when did angels come in giant size to be the statue of liberty? That wasn't explained at all.

There was a throwaway line at one point I remember, where the Doctor asks about the Angels and River says something like "It's like they've taken over every statue in the city." So I think that's meant to carry the implication that Angels can turn other statues into Angels, and given the power they'd taken over Manhattan, they were capable of converting the Statue of Liberty as well. I don't think the story made sufficient use of it, though.

Also, I can't believe Moffat didn't hit on the obvious expedient that struck a lot of other people of:

Amy and Rory raising young Melody after she regenerated in New York until she was able to pursue their younger selves in Leadworth - thus giving them the opportunity they longed for of being able to raise their daughter.

I think it was a pretty strong episode, but it only really hung together on the surface.

[Doctor MK]

The Angels Take Manhattan is one of those episodes you can look at from one of two perspectives, depending on how invested in it you were.

If you merely sat back and took it all at face value, then it was a pretty decent episode. One of the strongest of Series 7 so far, in fact - and I've enjoyed pretty much all of the episodes in Part 1 so that's saying something. The idea of tying it all in with a novel was... well, a novel idea, and the Weeping Angels were used far better here than in The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone. Like in Blink, they seem to work their best when they're all about being in real-life locations and zapping people back in time, not snapping their necks and talking through a walkie talkie. It seemed apt to say farewell to the Ponds in an episode entirely made up of Moffat's greatest hits (The Eleventh Doctor, the Weeping Angels, River Song) and their exit certainly had an emotional punch, working very similarly to David Tennant's exit in The End of Time, Part Two in the sense that there's a load of trouble, they fix it and evade certain doom, think everything is okay again, and then WHAM!

On the other hand though, you could look at the episode as being a bit of a jumbled mess that was positively riddled with plot-holes and things that made next to no sense. As clever and seemingly suitable as the Ponds' exit was, it did feel awfully rushed. Rory didn't even get a proper send-off and Amy left extremely quickly afterwards too, I was expecting a bit more of a drawn-out dilemma rather than just "he's gone, I'm gonna follow him straight away, bye". And that one lone angel, how much of a plot convenience was that? As others have said, it may have lacked the shock factor, but if they'd expanded the Ponds jumping off the building to their deaths, that would probably have been the better exit as it would give both of them a bit more time to say their farewells.

But anyway, Amy and Rory are old news now! It's all about Jenna Louise Coleman from here on out, so roll on Christmas! Is she Oswin Oswald...?

[Jeffhog]

Just dropping by and leaving this here.

By the by, I really want to hop on board the series already...

[PeanutButterDimond]

Wow that was a really good video. Well thought out and neatly explained. Though it is not the first time that Doctor Who has been compared to religion. A writer for Cracked did an article about becoming a fan of Doctor Who and how it is like a religion. He relates the Doctor to a powerful but imperfect god with upmost respect, care and love for humanity. It's actually pretty good.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-dr.-who-became-my-religion/

Oh yeah, about that mid season finale. It was really good. I liked it. i mean, yeah, there were some flaws but overall I thought that fit nicely together and was a good send off for the Ponds.

[Patticus]

Doctor Who: P.S.

Find out what happened to Rory's dad and the Ponds in this unshot scene by Chris Chibnall:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00zn6ff

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/oct/12/doctor-who-amy-rory-alternative-ending

Beautiful. Loved it.