Slipping away...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

One thing that struck me as awkward with Sonic's lines in the Black Knight was how loud he usually was.

When he begins a scene is when he comes off as cool, but when he continues a discussion with another character it's like he's yelling.

It would've helped his character in the game a hell of a lot more if his VA had gave him various tones instead of a one that was somewhat loud and way too upbeat. Not that I have a problem with him being upbeat, but varietize the tone. A soft but firm tone can give as much impact to the audience as one that's confident and loud.

As messed up as Sonic '06's script was at a lot of points, it actually variated Sonic's tone and gave him a myriad of emotions than the Black Knight, even moreso than Unleashed.

Edited March 23, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[SuperStingray]

And unintentional innuendos. Can't forget about them.

Wait, what? ...Oh I get it. "Sword." Wink wink.

Sonic Battle's premise (at least in Sonic's story) seems to be, "What if all the Sonic characters had anger management problems?". Then there the matter of the plot:

The only characters I really saw had anger problems in that game were Shadow (only at certain points though) and Knuckles. But I couldn't help but laugh at how batshit crazy Amy was in that game.

Then there the matter of the plot:

Tails: Sonic, this robot destroyed an entire civilization

Sonic: Let's give it Chaos Emeralds!

Hm. I never really noticed that, but in retrospect it does sound pretty dumb.

One thing that struck me as awkward with Sonic's lines in the Black Knight was how loud he usually was.

When he begins a scene is when he comes off as cool, but when he continues a discussion with another character it's like he's yelling.

It would've helped his character in the game a hell of a lot more if his VA had gave him various tones instead of a one that was somewhat loud and way too upbeat. Not that I have a problem with him being upbeat, but varietize the tone. A soft but firm tone can give as much impact to the audience as one that's confident and loud.

I don't think he was speaking loudly so much as passionately. I guess one could say it was a bit over the top at times, but I think anyone can feel empowered when holding a sword.

As messed up as Sonic '06's script was at a lot of points, it actually variated Sonic's tone and gave him a myriad of emotions than the Black Knight, even moreso than Unleashed.

Sonic had as much emotion in that game as a rice cake has flavor. Anything that even seemed emotional just felt like narm to me.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't think he was speaking loudly so much as passionately. I guess one could say it was a bit over the top at times, but I think anyone can feel empowered when holding a sword.

Sonic seemed a little too excited to me, and he didn't even want to bother with the sword when he first got it. Near the end was pretty balanced.

Sonic had as much emotion in that game as a rice cake has flavor. Anything that even seemed emotional just felt like narm to me.

I was talking in terms of the tone though. He had a lot of bland moments yes, but a lot of the tones he gave off could tell you how he felt of whatever the situation was. I know how ridiculous the script is, and trust me it was very lacking, but when it came to whatever the situation if Sonic was suppose to contrast the grim situation with empowerment or follow it with the gloominess he hit the mark dead on.

If you want emotionless, however, then Shadow would fit that bill right there. Aside from the moments when he looked saddened after seeing himself locked up before fighting Mephilies and the scene where he invaded Eggman's fortress, he didn't seem to have that much of an emotion at all.

But hey, that's just me.

[ovarloard]

One thing that struck me as awkward with Sonic's lines in the Black Knight was how loud he usually was.

When he begins a scene is when he comes off as cool, but when he continues a discussion with another character it's like he's yelling.

Like when Gawain has just "lost to a mere apprentice", and so wants to kill himself.

Sonic's line is "Hey! What's with all this drama?" He yells it, and it sounds dramatic, which defies the point of his statement.

[Sean]

Like when Gawain has just "lost to a mere apprentice", and so wants to kill himself.

Sonic's line is "Hey! What's with all this drama?" He yells it, and it sounds dramatic, which defies the point of his statement.

Holy shit. Does Sonic really say this?

The clever script in Sonic and the Black Knight is the only thing about the game I have found appealing (for once). Had Sonic said this in a light-hearted tone, it would have made for a great tongue-in-cheek backlash against some of the more drama-ridden entries in the series. Oh well, I'm going to blame it on the voice direction.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Jake

[SuperStingray]

Like when Gawain has just "lost to a mere apprentice", and so wants to kill himself.

Sonic's line is "Hey! What's with all this drama?" He yells it, and it sounds dramatic, which defies the point of his statement.

Actually, I think he said "Give me a break, will ya?"

[Silencer226]

I haven't lost interest in the character, he's pretty cool. What I have lost interest in is the games, the series itself is dead to me right now. I still hold Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 high on my gaming list, but the newer games have never given me that sense of joy I had when I first laid my hands on SA1 and 2. I've played so many games trying to see if they will give me that joy I once felt. I thought it was in Unleashed but no, Unleashed was just running nothing about it had me like "yeah let's do this again", SA1 and 2 had that feeling that "this level was fun, let's play it again".

It also doesn't help that I am growing an extreme dislike for this fanbase, no offense to anyone here but some fans are just simply vulgar to me, especially on youtube (you know it's true...). Show some dignity please.

But anyways besides my growing distaste for some of the fanbase, Sonic as a character continues to still somehow be a likable character. It's just that the games have become to cliched, glitched, and uninteresting that I just lose my interest in them. I use a Unleashed for an example again, nothing about that game is interesting to me, not even Eggman Land. Going through story mode is boring, hell I am being brutally honest when I say this, Sonic The Hedgehog's story mode was actually better than Sonic Unleashed. Of course many of you may disagree, but still that's my opinion.

Edited March 23, 2009 by silencer226

[libertyernie]

I think the key to making a good 3D Sonic game is 1. mixing speed with some platforming elements, 2. using the homing attack and 3. not getting distracted in terms of gameplay (Sonic Rush Adventure pretty much stuck to the basics; other recent games have not.)

[ovarloard]

I think the key to making a good 3D Sonic game is 1. mixing speed with some platforming elements, 2. using the homing attack and 3. not getting distracted in terms of gameplay (Sonic Rush Adventure pretty much stuck to the basics; other recent games have not.)

I don't want to bash anyone's opinions, or insult or criticize anyone, but...

Have you been reading this topic? Pretty much everyone thinks "knows" that the classic games were the best, and therefore the modern games must reproduce them (e.g., mixing speed with some platforming elements).

And now here is my opinion on the two latter statements of the above quote.

Using the homing attack as a method of getting from place to place is fine, but using it to attack, mainly in boss battles, is annoying as hell. The camera flips around, and it sometimes will not respond, so you fail to do the attack and must retry/die and then restart. (This happened too much in Secret Rings.) Also my opinion: because I do like the modern games better than the classics because of the sheer speed, I feel the homing attack kind of slows things down, as when you attack an enemy, Sonic flips back up into the air. Sometimes, it also takes a long time to lock on, when you could have just run through as easily, if not for the fact you were trying to defeat enemies. (Unleashed kind of fixed this with the boost. Sonic and the Black Knight has really slow lock on, but that's the style, not the inability of the game to act.)

And the water-based stages (steering the boats and ships) were a letdown. While the speedy hedgehog stages were fun, the boats could have used a little work.

[Kace]

I have not lost any of my love for sonic, though I've lost a lot of faith in the development team for the games. Do they play them and enjoy them? Honestly? I'm sure there will continue to be horrible 3D games with one good one every few titles or so, and the 2D titles will continue to keep the dream alive.

[Phos]

[Blazey Firekitty]

I loled at the "Pit Pit Pit" in the Rush diagram.XD Good thing Blaze can hover!

[SuperStingray]

Do they play them and enjoy them?

Frankly, I'm wondering if they have a real beta testing team. Did they playthrough Sonic 06 before they released it?

[ovarloard]

Although I don't quite agree with some of the stereotypes (namely Sonic Advance 2 - quite a few times enemies have kept me from making it to the higher elevations and slowed me down quite a bit), good job on the picture.

Even my sister, who doesn't play Sonic and therefore doesn't know about all these debates and so-called problems was able to have a laugh.

Frankly, I'm wondering if they have a real beta testing team. Did they playthrough Sonic 06 before they released it?

RUMOR ALERT: '06 testers had to say thumbs up, else they would lose their jobs. Some did. (Lose their jobs.) SEGA was anxious to get it out for the holodays, so they needed to hear what they wanted to hear.

[Phos]

I didn't make it, it was just sitting on my hard drive.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Phos

[ovarloard]

Then thank you for sharing.

[SuperStingray]

RUMOR ALERT: '06 testers had to say thumbs up, else they would lose their jobs. Some did. (Lose their jobs.) SEGA was anxious to get it out for the holodays, so they needed to hear what they wanted to hear.

Oh, I've heard that rumor. I just can't believe something that ridiculous.

[ovarloard]

Oh, I've heard that rumor. I just can't believe something that ridiculous.

At the risk of sounding stubborn and closed-minded, I'm going to say there seems to be no other explanation for such a poorly coded game. Some ideas were even sound and could have been executed well, but they weren't.

[DC111]

Phos, I do not feel I owe you an apology for stating MY opinion on Sonic's character. I believe he's been more in-character than ever as far as personality. I'm not referring to gameplay, I'm referring to Sonic himself. Either way, you do not have to agree with me. As I did say in my previous post, it's just my opinion. The only thing I can apologize for is if I wasn't clear on where I stood, and it was interpreted wrong.

You anger me with this statement.

Tough. I'm not going to change that statement for the sake of your emotional well-being. Sorry if I sound rude, but I'm not going to respect the opinions of someone who won't respect mine.

[Phos]

At the risk of sounding stubborn and closed-minded, I'm going to say there seems to be no other explanation for such a poorly coded game. Some ideas were even sound and could have been executed well, but they weren't.

The executives could have just ignored the beta tester's verdict.

DC111: Eh, I guess I was just anger prone that night.

[Indigo Rush]

Phos, I do not feel I owe you an apology for stating MY opinion on Sonic's character. I believe he's been more in-character than ever as far as personality. I'm not referring to gameplay, I'm referring to Sonic himself. Either way, you do not have to agree with me. As I did say in my previous post, it's just my opinion. The only thing I can apologize for is if I wasn't clear on where I stood, and it was interpreted wrong.

Tough. I'm not going to change that statement for the sake of your emotional well-being. Sorry if I sound rude, but I'm not going to respect the opinions of someone who won't respect mine.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[Tornado]

Sonic Advance isn't retro, or even retro-styled. The only thing retro about it is the 2D. It's similarly styled to Advance 2, though admittedly, Advance 2 was a lot faster. Neither focuses as much on exploration as the originals did.

Someone on Sonic Retro once took apart the game engines of Sonic 2 and Sonic Advance, and found one difference in the way the physics engine works:

When you jump into the middle of a loop at speed, you lose all momentum in Sonic Advance.

That's it.

I can't recall anything about the super shoes, and I'm too lazy to look, but I don't think you are correct on that either.

Advance has many more straightaways and hills to run straight down (or rails to grind on)

In the beginning. Even by Act 2 things started to be more Sonic 2 like, and Casino Paradise had path's all over the place IIRC.

Lets be fair. Advance 2 was quite generous in the amount of pits and unavoidable enemies strewn about its single pathway.

[nameless]

With the recent releases of Unleashed and SatBK, I am beginning to lose my faith - and my patience - with Sega. I just can't actually believe that A: Sonic Team can even DARE to release such peices of shit into the gaming world (especially under the name of Sonic) and B: that they can deliver a decent new title in the series, especially after witnessing the vile puke that the last two games turned out to be.

I don't want to hate Sonic. In fact, I've tried every possible way to make the series tollerable for myself... but it just isn't working. The only remaining bond between the blue 'hog and I is the strong love I hold for the retro games (SA2 and previous), and that is a bond which is unbreakable - even if the entire series has become utter shite since the demise of the Dreamcast.

So, I'm wondering this: does anyone feel the same way, or am I just an idiotic nostalgiafag? Please don't state that the latter is true...

Ever since the release of Shadow, I've been turned off to Sonic largely. Heck, I liked Heroes and SonicX--I was at the age for them--but lately, I've also been hugely disappointed, and my involvement in the Sonic series has mostly consisted of reading and writing fanfiction and such, and the occasional music video--but the owners of the music I use always tear the videos down, so I've stopped that for the most part. I've always been more attracted to the emotional part of Sonic, which is mostly found throughout fanfiction.

I think that's one of the problems, though; Sega tries to incorporate a lot of plot, and loses the great gameplay. It was different for Adventure and Adventure 2--both were great games with great plots, the first of their kind. Heroes left that plot element out for the most part, and on some levels I still accept as a good 3D Sonic title.

They focus so much on the plot and make these epic stories, but they leave out everything else. The gaming elements suck because they put too much time into special moves and werehog mechanics and not enough into GREAT levels like the sonic levels in Unleashed. They keep trying to impress us with new stuff and don't realize that we want SONIC, not new bullshit like what we've gotten. We don't want fancy Wii controls, with the powerups and the rings--we don't want to have to go back to the dinosaur level a hundred times, because it really isn't that great--we don't care about Shadow and his guns, we don't want Werehog, we don't want Excalibur or whatever... You get my point.

So I think we're all falling out of love with Sonic. It's not our fault.

Also very nice diagram. XD I have to agree on EVERY point.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The gaming elements suck because they put too much time into special moves and werehog mechanics and not enough into GREAT levels like the sonic levels in Unleashed.

The regular Sonic levels are no more better than the werehog. They were both bland. The werehog got intresting as soon as you unlocked new comboes and stuff, but other than that, not even Sonic's levels in Unleashed were great.

I mean seriously, there's no fucking point in just blasting through a stage at 300mph. Absolutely none.

They keep trying to impress us with new stuff and don't realize that we want SONIC, not new bullshit like what we've gotten. We don't want fancy Wii controls, with the powerups and the rings--we don't want to have to go back to the dinosaur level a hundred times, because it really isn't that great--we don't care about Shadow and his guns, we don't want Werehog, we don't want Excalibur or whatever... You get my point.

Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some fandom in it...

Bud, don't try to speak for what "we" the fanbase wants, you can't. This fandom is so damn divided, even the basic wants are conflicting.

There are some things the fanbase can agree on, but even the things that "we" don't want a lot of us end up enjoying.

Edited March 24, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Tornado]

There are some things the fanbase can agree on

I wouldn't even say that. "We want Sonic only." Then "Where are all of the other characters?"