The OLD pilot of Sonic X

[Badnik Zero]

You're implying that Sonic Adventure 2 is accurate to the classic games, which it clearly is not. For it to be accurate, you're going to have to reconcile why falling from orbit suddenly became such a problem in this game.

This is a pretty weak argument, and I think you'd say so too if you didn't agree with what it says. Why not reconcile why falling into water kills Sonic? The 3D games had different rules, and one of them was out of bounds. You fall off the level and you're dead. If you're talking about Shadow, we're just lead to think he's dead. I'm sure there were some who said he survived the fall because he was powered up. They were proven right by the next two games.

[Flyboy Fox]

I personally don't have a problem with the existence of a human population on Sonic's plant/Earth. What bugs me only is how scarce the animal characters are, and how there seems to ONLY (for the most part) be human occupants in most of the territories that Sonic and co visit. I don't mind them sharing their environment with humans (I got over that gripe a while ago), but I would like to see more animal NPCs.

I guess mixing them up now would be a little odd, but maybe they could show some villages/towns that have mostly animal occupants, at least occasionally?

[Phos]

This is a pretty weak argument, and I think you'd say so too if you didn't agree with what it says. Why not reconcile why falling into water kills Sonic? The 3D games had different rules, and one of them was out of bounds. You fall off the level and you're dead. If you're talking about Shadow, we're just lead to think he's dead. I'm sure there were some who said he survived the fall because he was powered up. They were proven right by the next two games.

Falling from orbit suddenly makes them heat up from reentry and fall fast enough to injure themselves. The latter has only happened one other time (When Sonic's physiology had been substantially altered) and the former only happens in that game and no where else.

We're talking about altering the nature of gravity and friction here.

[Badnik Zero]

^ You have a point, but so do I. It's extremely picky. You might as well be talking about Sonic's quills and eyes.

[Dr. Mechano]

Fleetway, SatAM, Archie, AoStH - continuities set on MOBIUS with, at most, two humans in a world of anthromorphic animals.

Wroooong.

AoStH had plenty of humans. Plenty. Robotnik, Mama Robotnik, Warpnik, Dr. Quark, Lucinda, Lucas, Blackbeard, and Professor Von Schlemmer, just to name a handful. AoStH was strangely an early and somewhat accurate depiction of how the game series would develop, in this regard.

[Octarine]

I guess mixing them up now would be a little odd, but maybe they could show some villages/towns that have mostly animal occupants, at least occasionally?

This bothered me the most in Shadow's game... I can put up with the general population being represented solely by human NPCs to a point, but Black Doom's constant repetition of "the humans blah blah blah" as if they were the only species on the planet was just awful.

More (as in, some) animal NPCs would go a good way toward pleasing both crowds, I'd hope. No dimension-hopping retcon required, preferably; just having them quietly start showing up as if they'd been around all along would suit me fine.

As for Shadow's fall being fatal, I guess that could be blamed on the amount of chaos energy being thrown around in that fight. Or Shadow being sealed away for 50 years and having muscle cramps. Or something... I don't like using writers' mistakes as grounds for serious discussion of continuity, personally.

[Phos]

I keep forgetting to mention that this pilot has Sonic as some kind of crazy nudist midget.

[jackskellinghog]

I keep forgetting to mention that this pilot has Sonic as some kind of crazy nudist midget.

I know right? Such serious business going on.

The Pilot:

Whether you removed humans or not the show would still have the lack of substance and charm it did originally. So arguing about the canon and everything else that's not relating to this topic, which seemingly is a waste of time anyway,should step back and look at what this is meant to be a discussion about.

[Double Agent Motobug]

Oh man, that's weird o_O I never saw this, but I have to say, I kinda like it--well, other than the lame voice over XD But eh! The art style is cartoony, and Knuckles driving a car makes me lol. I missed that version of the Tornado 2, as well.

On a side note, Sonic Rush Adventure showed us that (at least SOMEWHERE), Sonic's universe has animal inhabitants. Remember Marine, Coconut Crew, the Vikings, and the rest of the inhabitants of Southern Island?

Sure, that was Blaze's world, but I imagine Sonic's world would look the same; he never questioned why there were other animals living on the island when he first arrived.

[Dreadknux]

Honestly, some of you give me a brain malfunction. Can we stop arguing about the humans Sonic games? Complaining about humans being in the games is a valid one for some, complaining about people complaining is valid for others. But no answer is inherently 'correct', because none of you work for SEGA or Sonic bleeding Team. You have no freaking clue what is 'right' and what is 'true' and what is 'wrong', and to assume so in any way makes you look like a tit of the highest order. Sorry Diogenes, but get off that soapbox.

Either way, the presence of Eggman indicates the presence of others having to exist. Humans don't just pop into existence magically; They're born, something that kind of requires other people to exist before them. Eggman's existence proves the existence of other humans for that very reason.

Logic, people. Logic.

Logic. Logic... wait, logic? For a franchise based on a blue overgrown hedgehog bouncing off huge red springs collecting rings and destroying robots? Hmmmmmm... yes let's inject real life logic to this. Ironically, your logic has no... logic.

There are only as many humans, foxes, hedgehogs, animals, rings and fat dictators as SEGA or Sonic Team tell us there are. What kind of nonsense is this, where the existence of one character proves the existence of a race? Are we to argue with Sonic Team that Knuckles isn't in fact the last survivor of the echidna race, just because he had to come from somewhere? The fact that Sonic Team -told- us Knuckles was the last in his race shouldn't factor into it - the issue here is that some fans try to fill in blanks that weren't necessary in the first place. Hence, the Shadow death conspiracies and fanfics. Hence, his return in Sonic Heroes. Hence, idiocy.

As for the issue of humans themselves, couldn't give a crap either way. They're either there or they're not. What they do and how intrusive they are to the gameplay is all I care about. Sonic Adventure is fine - humans, but NPC and out of the way. Couldn't care less. Sonic 2006 - introduction of humans enforced Sonic Team's concept of creating a 'more realistic' Sonic which looked, frankly, stupid; Elise, her human-populated city and the whole Solaris bullcrap created a story of bollocks, and challenges are handed to you by mannequin-esque NPCs that travel with apple barrels.

I'm all for far less humans in Sonic games, as a lot of gamers (and Sonic fans who are gamers, let's clarify) would agree. However, that doesn't mean to say that there's a belief that humans don't exist or shouldn't exist in Sonic's world. Eggman, after all. The issue is, humans get in the way and they're a complete contrast to the sheer environmental message of the original game, which was layered in 'otherness' undertones and hidden messages that are much more interesting than "Ooh, alien. Sonic must blow up and save generic New York City-alike #201".

But you know, there are fans that couldn't give a toss about an awesome, subtle and deep storyline such as the Sega Mega Drive original and would rather have Bruce Willis star alongside Sonic as they travel into space to destroy the Romulans with Chuck Norris and Captain Picard. That's cool too, but to say any other stance or preference is 'wrong' while your "logic based" balls is 'true' requires a headcheck.

---

Now what were we talking about again?

I almost thought that video was a fandub too... is this one of the things that's on the JPN Sonic X DVDs as someone mentioned? I wonder why it's in English. Or why they chose that rather borin' voiceover for that matter. :3

[-Mark-]

Yeah, it's an extra on the Hi-Spec Japanese DVDs. I think it might have been volume 6, I'll check when I next go upstairs.

Not sure why it was in English either, really. D=

EDIT: Yeah, it was on volume six. Oddly, volume 1 has the second pilot movie, this is actually the first one, yet it was put on volume six.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Mahzes

[Phos]

Oh man, that's weird o_O I never saw this, but I have to say, I kinda like it--well, other than the lame voice over XD But eh! The art style is cartoony, and Knuckles driving a car makes me lol. I missed that version of the Tornado 2, as well.

On a side note, Sonic Rush Adventure showed us that (at least SOMEWHERE), Sonic's universe has animal inhabitants. Remember Marine, Coconut Crew, the Vikings, and the rest of the inhabitants of Southern Island?

Sure, that was Blaze's world, but I imagine Sonic's world would look the same; he never questioned why there were other animals living on the island when he first arrived.

No need to image, not when we've got the old Sonic Screensaver!

[gato]

HOLAS:

I thought this was a fandub xD

It was an interesting video:

- Sonic looked... err... werid in this video (I never watched sonic X so I don't know if this was in the final), I don't know how to explain it D: .

- Knuckles in a car made me LOL (for some reason watching knux with cream and "chao" made me LOL even more ).

- Shadow was there since the beggining, that may suggest they didn't want to re-create the game plots at that point.

- And I'm all for other animals in the series (or less humans) but I wouldn't like to remove all the humans, there were some (at least) decent additions...

p.d: "The power of COOL" was the best part of the pilot, I MUST use that somewhere else xD

[Kiljoy]

But you know, there are fans that couldn't give a toss about an awesome, subtle and deep storyline such as the Sega Mega Drive original and would rather have Bruce Willis star alongside Sonic as they travel into space to destroy the Romulans with Chuck Norris and Captain Picard. That's cool too, but to say any other stance or preference is 'wrong' while your "logic based" balls is 'true' requires a headcheck.

Whoa whoa whoa I was with you up till the end, but I just don't see where the original Sonic had an awesome, deep, and subtle storyline.

[Dreadknux]

Whoa whoa whoa I was with you up till the end, but I just don't see where the original Sonic had an awesome, deep, and subtle storyline.

Look beyond the fact that you're a hedgehog, he's a fatman in a robot ship. Look at the environments that change the deeper you get into the game. Think of the environmental messages and the issues of 'otherness' (look it up) that Sonic and friends face against Eggman.

Some might think that the story is all about a blue hedgehog saving his animal friends from Robotnik, who wants to take over the world. That's but one layer of it.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Wroooong.

AoStH had plenty of humans. Plenty. Robotnik, Mama Robotnik, Warpnik, Dr. Quark, Lucinda, Lucas, Blackbeard, and Professor Von Schlemmer, just to name a handful. AoStH was strangely an early and somewhat accurate depiction of how the game series would develop, in this regard.

OK; so we have 4 canons in favor of anthropo-vanished Mobius rather than 5. Yeesh.

The bean-counting still sides with me, here, and my premise remains that proliferative pink-skins are contrary to the overall aesthetic of the series as established Back In The Day.

[Kiljoy]

Look beyond the fact that you're a hedgehog, he's a fatman in a robot ship. Look at the environments that change the deeper you get into the game. Think of the environmental messages and the issues of 'otherness' (look it up) that Sonic and friends face against Eggman.

Some might think that the story is all about a blue hedgehog saving his animal friends from Robotnik, who wants to take over the world. That's but one layer of it.

I hardly call what you saw deep, the message of nature vs industry was obvious, and was presented by the background changing. But if you're seeing more layers I think that might just be you.

[Marcello]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate Chris? I thought he was ok o.O

[back2s0ul]

I barely saw and didn't like Sonic X. The pilot doesn't look too much better, but at least it doesn't use that awful, "Let's put Sonic and friends in the real world," plot device, a la Goemon.

[Ebby]

On the one hand, I can see why people don't like Chris. He was one of those Scrappy-Doo-like "kid-appeal mistake" characters that viewers are supposed to relate to somehow, but wind up hating instead.

I love Scrappy Doo. "P-P-P-P-PUPPY!! P-P-P-P-P-POWER!!!"

I honestly think that Sonic X would have been lame even without humans....

[Dreadknux]

I hardly call what you saw deep, the message of nature vs industry was obvious, and was presented by the background changing. But if you're seeing more layers I think that might just be you.

OK, now you're clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing, and beginning to piss me off. Does it even matter who sees what in where? Stop trying to dangle your obviously superior e-peen around and get back to the topic at hand, please. This sort of showboating and 'well I think you're obviously wrong' attitude is what I'm trying to combat between you, Diogenes and a load of other people in this thread. I've tried being nice, but this is your last chance, don't wander off the topic again.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

I've tried being nice, but this is your last chance, don't wander off the topic again.

Ah-hem: "I think Old Sonic X Pilot is a pretty cool guy, eh has no humans and doesn't afraid of anything."

Also enjoying Sonic's spin-dashing his way through - and exploding - an implicitly highly populated tower block just for the sake of taking down the Eggmobile Egg-O-Matic. LOLWUT

Edited November 9, 2009 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Flyboy Fox]

Gotta admit I raised my eyebrow at that (the ripping up of the office-type building) too. Wanton needless destruction much? Just gotta hope nobody was in there.

While I do love the action side of Sonic (and he is primarily an action-based character), I'm not a big fan of the gratuitous blowing up of things, especially by hero characters ^^; I get that Sonic needs to stop Eggman, but if Sonic's gonna destroy the city anyway in the process, well... =P

[Sean]

Action for the sake of action - Sonic practically did more in that pilot than he ever did in any episode.

[Badnik Zero]

I'm not a big fan of the gratuitous blowing up of things, especially by hero characters ^^; I get that Sonic needs to stop Eggman, but if Sonic's gonna destroy the city anyway in the process, well... =P

Reminds me of Futurama. "The value of the Gemerald you saved is slightly greater than the cost of the damage you caused to this museum. A net gain for our great city!" This really happens a lot in superhero movies.

Anyways, I don't think I've shared my thoughts on the pilot. It's not anything extraordinary, it seems like your basic Sonic stuff. But I like it for that, and I like their inclusion of ordinary furries. I think this version would cut out the transported to another dimension plot, because why send Sonic to a place with more furries. Chris probably isn't in this version. I never understood how we're supposed to relate more to this incredibly rich child of celebrities more than a fun loving hedgehog, but it did give us some perspective of what it's like looking in at Blue.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf