Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Hazuki Heartwood]

Hmm... let's see, what would I like from this game...

Personaily, I would like an optional hard mode. I also hope this game isn't like Rush... I want obstacles, you know? I wouldn't mind this game playing like a HD Sonic CD, without the time travel. And an optional super sonic would be nice too, I like collecting emeralds, but him being playable in levels makes the game too damn easy...

[DaBatGuy]

And an optional super sonic would be nice too, I like collecting emeralds, but him being playable in levels makes the game too damn easy...

Isn't that the point of Super Sonic, to be a game breaking God-Mod that's only unlocked after completing the most difficult task in the game?

[Solid SOAP]

I'm hoping this takes more notes from Sonic 2 or 3 than Sonic 1 or CD, personally. Level themes and colorful graphics like Sonic 2 with the story-telling methods of Sonic 3.

[Hazuki Heartwood]

Isn't that the point of Super Sonic, to be a game breaking God-Mod that's only unlocked after completing the most difficult task in the game?

Well...

One of the reasons I like Sonic 1 and Sonic CD is because after collecting all the gems, there's still a challenge in the game. I don't like it when I collect 50 rings and automatically turn into god mode which I hate which sucks away all the rings I just earned anyway. Of course, there are times when I love super sonic and I can't wait to play as him. That's why I want it to be optional.

I generally don't want to transform when I'm playing for challenge and I do when I just want to rape everything in my path and go rediculously fast.

[Blue Blood]

Well...

One of the reasons I like Sonic 1 and Sonic CD is because after collecting all the gems, there's still a challenge in the game. I don't like it when I collect 50 rings and automatically turn into god mode which I hate which sucks away all the rings I just earned anyway. Of course, there are times when I love super sonic and I can't wait to play as him. That's why I want it to be optional.

I generally don't want to transform when I'm playing for challenge and I do when I just want to rape everything in my path and go rediculously fast.

Super Sonic needn't be so easily activate once you've collected all the emeralds. There's a multitude of button combinations that could be used.

[Hazuki Heartwood]

Super Sonic needn't be so easily activate once you've collected all the emeralds. There's a multitude of button combinations that could be used.

A, A, X, Y, B Low kick, High kick, -->, ^, <-- !

*Turns into Super Sonic and flys through Eggman*

Flawless Victory.

Fataility.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Hazuki Heartwood

[Unholy Sonic]

Well then, here's my idea for those who still want challenge.

Even after collection all the chaos emeralds.... why couln'd they just input a button combo to turn into Super Sonic instead of being forced to transform into him after collecting 50 rings and double A by accident.

Something like.... Up Down while holding A+B something that can be used with any game controller except that you replace the letters by X+Square.

Like that, Super Sonic, after collecting all chaos emeralds (repeating myself too much....) will be either an Easy Mode or an Emergency Power for the hardcore challengers.

Maybe that pressing those buttons could cancel the transformation too?

Instead of finishing the level like that or stand in place to use up all the rings (tho it would be pure waist of time).

[Octarine]

I don't see much reason for it to be complicated; sometimes you have to transform at the spur of the moment, and even if you don't it wouldn't be a good idea to slow down the game even long enough to have to press more than one button.

Both the PS3 and the 360 have far more than enough buttons to deal with a classic-style Sonic game, which needs... uh, two, basically, and one of those only for menus. I'm sure it can be assigned somewhere.

I agree that having it set to double-jump isn't ideal, though. I mean, you're literally incapable of flying as Tails or gliding as Knuckles without going super once you have the emeralds and 50 rings. If you're about to face a boss that takes a long time to beat or that you can't damage directly (Death Egg act 2, for example), that can be pretty deadly.

[Phos]

Whatever button combination you use for turning into Super Sonic, it should involve the button in the Y/triangle position. On the 360 controller, it's yellow, like Super Sonic. Press it in the air, perhaps, or hold it down in the air.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Phos

[Marcello]

The only thing I hated about Super Sonic in Sonic 3 was that I sometimes transformed by accident when I wanted to do the Insta-Shield :-/.

[Indigo Rush]

The way I would like the controls to work would involve Sonic around having only 2 buttons... a super transformation would be mapped to an "Jump-then-press-attack-button" function, a combination you don't normally use in-game.

On that note, I think the controls should be the same as Sonic Advance, in the sense that you have a simple attack button, for instance Sonic does a somersault when stationary, and when he's running, pressing the attack button would do a running attack, like a quick spin motion, similar to Advance 2.

But what I'd like to add are the tight spaces from Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic can somersault through them, but an action I'd like to add to Needlemouse (something new to 2D games) would be a "Hold-down-then-press-attack-button" function, allowing the character to slide across the plane for a bit. Actually, think of Kirby's slide attack from his games. It's like that, only flashier, and when you go down a hill, you slide faster.

Oh, and I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for thinking this is a good idea, but I think they should bring back grind rails... sparingly mind you! I thought it was a cool addition to the games, and wouldn't mind seeing them again. However, I'd like to be able to use the attack button to do a little turn and move forward a little, like pressing "B" in Heroes. It should prove to make things a little less frustrating when your trying to go uphill, but don't have enough momentum, or if you're standing still and are about to fall off.

And wall-jumping for specific characters. Jump against a wall, you slowly stick ala-New Mario Bros Wii, press jump and then repeat. Gives characters like Sonic an edge to go up places too high even for Tails.

But that's just what I'd like to see. I know it looks like a lot, but a lot can be done with a directional pad and two buttons. I don't want to do anything more complicated than what I just listed. I understand that Sonic games were originally designed to be simple, and I'd like to keep that mentality, but add one extra button for more immersive gameplay without completely confusing the player.

Some may agree, some may not. Some may want only one functional button and for the game to play exactly like Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I, personally, want a little more than that. This is a new 2D Sonic game in 2010, not 1991.

[azoo]

The Y button idea sounds most feasible for Super Sonic, actually. I never thought of it like that before.

And Indigo, I'm not too keen on the somersault being the secondary action. By the way you put it, it sounds like the same thing as rolling but instead on the B Button. IMO, I believe that the B Button could go for a somersault-slide move, where whenever Sonic is beside a crevice to roll under, yet doesn't have enough space to gain speed so he could roll under it, he could use the somersault to gain speed instantly and quickly convert to a halting powerslide. It doesn't remove the use of the rolling mechanic, but it helps you in places where help is needed. I was also thinking that a slide ability doesn't make much sense to destroy enemies with, since it's barely an attack in itself. However I imagine that it could be used topple over and paralyze enemies, which won't destroy them, but will keep them off your back temporarily.

I would like to see rails return to the series, but I would rather see them function like off SA2. In fact, I don't see why SA2's style of grinding couldn't be used in a Sonic game, since rails are momentum-based gimmicks, just like how gimmicks should be in a Sonic game. The only problem is that after SA2, they started getting lazy with grinding, and it no longer is made faster by crouching, it's just made faster by boosting across it, which does nothing but cheapen the gimmick and show it as nothing more but a straightfoward path that was made because the designers didn't feel like building anymore of the levels in between those gaps.

And I've always liked the idea of wall-jumping. Sonic could go with more of that, except less wonky and allowing you to jump off mostly any wall, unlike Unleashed's wall-jump.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Azukara

[Indigo Rush]

Hm, mapping it to a completely different button altogether? That seems like a fair idea. Although when I think of controls, I like to use this as a reference...

Now I know it's not coming out for the Wii. But it limits us to a simpler control method, making sure the developers don't go all happy with the buttons. Last thing I want is to use more than 2 buttons on a 2D Sonic game.

(although pressing that "A" button in the middle seems like a good super transform button...)

[Marcello]

I don't really like using the Wii-mote as a controller like that. Its not very comfortable :-/.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Marcello Claus

[Tornado]

And its a rather poor example anyways, because most developers elect to use idiotic waggle so they don't have to map the buttons.

[Marcello]

I could imagine them making Super transformation by shaking the Wiimote while in the air. I wouldn't hate it, but I wouldn't really want it, either.

[Indigo Rush]

The Y button idea sounds most feasible for Super Sonic, actually. I never thought of it like that before.

And Indigo, I'm not too keen on the somersault being the secondary action. By the way you put it, it sounds like the same thing as rolling but instead on the B Button. IMO, I believe that the B Button could go for a somersault-slide move, where whenever Sonic is beside a crevice to roll under, yet doesn't have enough space to gain speed so he could roll under it, he could use the somersault to gain speed instantly and quickly convert to a halting powerslide. It doesn't remove the use of the rolling mechanic, but it helps you in places where help is needed. I was also thinking that a slide ability doesn't make much sense to destroy enemies with, since it's barely an attack in itself. However I imagine that it could be used topple over and paralyze enemies, which won't destroy them, but will keep them off your back temporarily.

I would like to see rails return to the series, but I would rather see them function like off SA2. In fact, I don't see why SA2's style of grinding couldn't be used in a Sonic game, since rails are momentum-based gimmicks, just like how gimmicks should be in a Sonic game. The only problem is that after SA2, they started getting lazy with grinding, and it no longer is made faster by crouching, it's just made faster by boosting across it, which does nothing but cheapen the gimmick and show it as nothing more but a straightfoward path that was made because the designers didn't feel like building anymore of the levels in between those gaps.

And I've always liked the idea of wall-jumping. Sonic could go with more of that, except less wonky and allowing you to jump off mostly any wall, unlike Unleashed's wall-jump.

Azukara, the somersault does the same thing that it does in Sonic Advance 2. It's just a standard attack. He rolls, then slides. Doing it when running does a short, but more powerful version of that. And the small crevice thing is exactly what I was implying in the first place. Sonic can just do that swiftly, but other characters would have to hold down then press the attack button.

As for rails, I don't think the crouch should be in there. In SA2 it was alright because you could just do a homing attack to gain momentum again. You can't do that in 2D. (At least I hope they aren't going to put that in) So I think the Heroes style of doing a short turn is a better choice, but by keeping the momentum incentive from previous games. Like I said in my previous post, it's possible to fall off if there's no momentum left. Actually, I'd like that weird jump forward thing from Heroes to double as an attack as well, in case there's a badnik on the rail that you need to destroy without any interest in losing speed by jumping.

Oh, and I think Super Sonic should be unlocked after collecting all of the Chaos Emeralds AND completing the main game. But, 'tis my lone idea.

I don't really like using the Wii-mote as a controller like that. Its not very comfortable :-/.

And its a rather poor example anyways, because most developers elect to use idiotic waggle so they don't have to map the buttons.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm just gonna drop this one.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Indigo Claus

[mark]

Personally..

Id rather see a full Sonic game built with daytime levels similar to those of Unleashed on the 360/PS3.. I really thought they were a blast and something new that Sonic really needed. Anyone else agree? Now..

"A 2D ADVENTURE"

Is that to catch the critics eye? It seems innovation is something which cannot exist in Sonic the Hedgehog.

[Solid SOAP]

I don't see why having a completely 2D game for once is such a bad thing, we're constantly being fed shit 3D games (Besides Unleashed, I enjoyed that game), what's wrong with giving a 2D game a try for once?

[Candescence]

Id rather see a full Sonic game built with daytime levels similar to those of Unleashed on the 360/PS3.. I really thought they were a blast and something new that Sonic really needed. Anyone else agree? Now..

I don't. Poorly-designed levels with Fake Difficulty (including Trial and Error gameplay of the bad sort) abound that causes massive amounts of frustration, requires inhuman reflexes to actually survive the later levels without having to memorise the levels off by heart, thus forcing you to die a lot in the later levels, badly-designed QTEs, and several spots where the designers have shoved easily-accessible 1-Ups right before places where people die a lot because they couldn't be arsed to fix badly-designed spots they've recognized? No thanks.

Edited December 2, 2009 by The Sniper

[DC111]

I don't. Poorly-designed levels with Fake Difficulty (including Trial and Error gameplay of the bad sort) abound that causes massive amounts of frustration, requires inhuman reflexes to actually survive the later levels without having to memorise the levels off by heart, thus forcing you to die a lot in the later levels, badly-designed QTEs, and several spots where the designers have shoved easily-accessible 1-Ups right before places where people die a lot because they couldn't be arsed to fix badly-designed spots they've recognized? No thanks.

In their defense, a fair amount of those places with the 1-ups are actually genuinely difficult. Rooftop Run Act 2, for example, has two or three of these. There aren't a multitude of game-breaking glitches or poorly designed areas; it's just plain hard. There is a difference between poor design and difficult design, you know.

I think it was cool of them to stick most of these 1-ups where they stuck them. It's even more frustrating when you have to restart an entire level just because of one area, and a lot of Sonic Team's moves prevented this unnecessary frustration. Granted... I know that doesn't excuse ALL of it; of course there are badly designed areas here and there. That's video games for ya.

[Candescence]

There are two types of difficulty - "real" and "fake". I think I've played enough hard games to distinguish between the two, and quite a lot of Unleashed 360/PS3's difficulty seriously has a problem of not being the player's damn fault. Eggmanland is especially guilty in this regard. It reminds me of I Wanna Be The Guy, and that's a bad sign.

On the other hand, there's another game I've played recently, Super Castlevania IV, while it belongs in a series of games that are very very hard, its difficulty is actually reasonable (though not a cakewalk by any means) and fair. I love that game partly because of it.

Edited December 2, 2009 by The Sniper

[Chooch]

I don't. Poorly-designed levels with Fake Difficulty (including Trial and Error gameplay of the bad sort) abound that causes massive amounts of frustration, requires inhuman reflexes to actually survive the later levels without having to memorise the levels off by heart, thus forcing you to die a lot in the later levels, badly-designed QTEs, and several spots where the designers have shoved easily-accessible 1-Ups right before places where people die a lot because they couldn't be arsed to fix badly-designed spots they've recognized? No thanks.

I can't help but feel that you're exaggerating. :\

I'll admit that the game does ramp up in difficulty a bit too quickly at some points (Jungle Joyride -> Eggmanland was just 'WHAT'), but when people start saying crap like 'inhuman reflexes' and act like QTEs are the worst thing in the world I start to doubt the legitimacy of their claims.

[Ferno]

Anyone else feel like it just wouldn't feel truly "classic" if none of the original team were involved? Not that I'm doubting or putting down the new team that worked on Unleashed, but still..

[Candescence]

I can't help but feel that you're exaggerating. :\

I'll admit that the game does ramp up in difficulty a bit too quickly at some points (Jungle Joyride -> Eggmanland was just 'WHAT'), but when people start saying crap like 'inhuman reflexes' and act like QTEs are the worst thing in the world I start to doubt the legitimacy of their claims.

If only I was. :\

There's just a lot of stuff that makes seriously unreasonable expectations of players who haven't memorized the stage. This would normally be fine if the only risk is killing off your chances of a better time, but other than the early stages... And as previously mentioned, the easily-placed 1-Ups just seem like a crutch that does nothing to stem the frustration. The QTEs, besides becoming more and more likely to kill you instantly if you screw up, are both random and often expect you to have very impressive reflexes to perform them unless you get lucky, and it doesn't help that it uses almost every button on the controller. At least the Wii version restricts the QTEs to A, B, and waggle and are far more reasonable.

Anyway, I'd rather not derail the topic with this sort of discussion, so...

Edited December 2, 2009 by The Sniper