Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Marcello]

As far as hyper sonic..... wasn't that JUST an extra????? You people will be lucky if super sonic is playable..... why ask for something that's likely NOT gonna happen? A poorly made extra at THAT? There's no exrta ending to getting those super Es. It was at MOST something to make you want to replay the game again... nothing more, everything less... IMO anyway.

Actually the ending did change. Not much and I can't remember all the differences, but it did change.

Sonics changes were that he stays hyper till he lands on the Tornado (As Super he changes back and starts falling) and you see Knuckles at the end looking into the sky next to the master emerald. I think there were more but I can't remember them right now..

[Tornado]

I'm going to keep this discussion going, because there are few things I like doing more in the Sonic community than pissing on the ashes of Sonic Advance 3.

I sort of agree with how the game punishes you in some parts, but not so much on how it plays exactly like Advance 2. The differences I see is that it has a lot more platforming to it than Advance 2, and doesn't focus so much on speed as the previous title does.

There is a lot more emphasis on platforming than speed because the awful level design punishes speed soon after it allows it. As far as how the game wants to be played, however (physics engine, control input delays, the ghost characters, etc.), everything is pure Advance 2.

It's faster than Sonic Advance 1, but slower in speed with more branching paths than 2, and is a lot more focused on using your partner to help get through the levels much easier instead of blazing through them like Advance 2.

Again, this is just bad level design. I agree that it does share that particular bit of nastiness with Sonic Heroes, but the bits in between the broken bridges are far closer to Advance 2 than Advance.

And the boss fights and the special stages (almost) are more similar to Advance 1.

Boss fights, I can understand. But special stages are irrelevant. I don't think anyone would say Sonic 3D Blast was closer to Sonic 2 than Sonic 1 was, for example (yes, I know I'm ignoring surrounding circumstances, but my point is that special stages are practically interchangeable with each game in the series).

Although getting to the special stages is similar to Advance 2, it's more lenient in that it doesn't always place the chao in too many overlooked places like the special rings and they're saved after obtaining them, so you don't have to worry too much about redoing the stage 50 times trying to get all the items to get to the stage. It has similar exploration value as Sonic Advance 1, with less of many (but not all) of the problems in 2.

This is iffy. It has better theoretical exploration merit than Advance 2, but in practice the awful level design and unsuitable game engine don't really make it pan out that much better. While the game isn't quite of the same mold as Advance 2's "Choose a path at the start of the level and you are stuck with it to the end with no backtracking allowed," it isn't anywhere near the free form levels Advance 1 had. And the "no backtracking" rule is even worse in Advance 3 than it was in Advance 2 because of all of the broken bridges.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Boss fights, I can understand. But special stages are irrelevant. I don't think anyone would say Sonic 3D Blast was closer to Sonic 2 than Sonic 1 was, for example (yes, I know I'm ignoring surrounding circumstances, but my point is that special stages are practically interchangeable with each game in the series).

If you didn't say this, I probably would've said that. I may be giving things a bit too much than they deserved then.

This is iffy. It has better theoretical exploration merit than Advance 2, but in practice the awful level design and unsuitable game engine don't really make it pan out that much better.

Okay, I get your point. I honestly had no idea of there being theoretical exploration merit, but then again there are a lot of things I'm not fully aware of.

And the "no backtracking" rule is even worse in Advance 3 than it was in Advance 2 because of all of the broken bridges.

I thought it was moreso the cryptic level design itself that it's "no backtracking" was made worse. You couldn't fully tell everywhere you were going in stages like Cyber Track, and if you felt like you were certain where you were going there's a likelyhood that you were heading for death.

[Tornado]

Okay, I get your point. I honestly had no idea of there being theoretical exploration merit, but then again there are a lot of things I'm not fully aware of.

I'm referring to there being actual stuff to search for when I refer to the completely made up term "theoretical exploration merit." Advance 2 had stuff, but due to the ass way it was implemented you essentially had to just choose one route (typically the highest) and stick to it; and restart if you made a mistake. Advance 3 was much better in its implementation, but because of the level design in practice you would probably be restarting levels a bunch anyways.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Tornado

[Chaos Walker]

Yeah, Sonic Advance, isn't that fun? So then, how 'bout that needlemouse? What sort of special stages are you hoping for? What's your prefered method of accessing them? Personaly I prefer blue spheres, (big surprise eh?) but that might be because it was the easiest one. Something like the Sonic Rush version of the halph pipe might be better. As for the access method, I not sure which I prefer. I suppose it's between 50 ring lamp posts and giant ring portals.

[Octarine]

If the game's going to be totally, unashamedly like the Genesis games in a Mega Man 9 way (not that I think it will, or that I want it to be), I want some faux Mode 7. Yeah, even though the Genesis couldn't do that. Nothing could feel more retro.

In all honesty, it'll probably be more half-pipes. They're the most iconic, I think, and of all the ones that have been done before they're the most fun, at least when they control decently. I'd rather have something new, but I'd be satisfied with that.

For access, I prefer the end-of-level giant rings. It might be a bit awkward if there are S3&K-style minibosses, though. I'm not picky, as long as Sonic 2's ring-stealing posts don't return.

[Chaos Walker]

What if there were more than one type of special stage or access method? For example, ring portals for good explorers, end-of-level rings for those skilled enough to keep their rings through the miniboss, and lamp posts for the deperate. Of course, with so many access methods the special stage itself would probably be fairly difficult. Looking back on it, this may to many methods anyhow.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Chaos Walker

[Uklo the Hedgehog]

why are you talking about the advance series?

i would refer PN more to a total classic like sonic 3 just with the hedgehog engine or it is pretty much like Unleashed Daytime without 3d.

well but i better wait for news...

[Chaos Walker]

i would refer PN

And PN stands for...?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And PN stands for...?

Project Needlemouse.

[Chaos Walker]

Oh... yeah... that's only what we've been talking about...

But on subject, I have a possible way to have the end level ring with mini bosses. you could collect the 3 (insert)s in the level. After you hit the goal post (or it lands on the ground), if you have all 3 (insert)s, the giant ring apears.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Chaos Walker

[Octarine]

I'm sure somebody would complain that it reminds them of the Adventure games' treasure hunting. It really depends on the design model they go with, since that'd be reasonable for a classic-speed game but pretty tedious if it was as fast as the Advances or Rushes. I mean, imagine not being able to advance further in Sonic Unleashed without collecting a certain number of medals in a single run through a level. Brr.

It should be the sort of thing that you'll access once or twice accidentally on a regular playthrough without prior knowledge, I think. I mean, in Sonic Rush I didn't enter a single special stage until I needed to access the Last Story because 'Jump on Gimmick -> Boost for X Seconds' never occurred to me as a reasonable thing to do in regular gameplay; I had to look it up. Special stages should at least make it apparent to new players that they exist.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Octarine

[azoo]

I actually wouldn't mind this game ends up being a Sadv1-like game but in HD. Sadv1 was the real Sonic 4, and I still consider it the border between S3K and SA1. It has the same type of gameplay (and level design actually), the artstyle actually fused the classics and modern games nicely (actually alot better than how Heroes did it), the music was sweet and catchy, and I believe this was the last time we saw really innovatively goofy bosses. The only flaw I can think of in Sadv1 is the special stages being pretty crappy and the background parallax being almost nonexistant, making the game feel a little slower than a usual Sonic game. But if those things weren't there I'd consider it to be the true successor to the classics.

Think of having it being like Sadv1, but having different, new levels, bosses, and all in 3D, HD goodness for the Xbox 360 / PS3. It'd be like Sega's answer to NSMBWii, except with a little more originality and no co-op. That is, unless they would add a Sonic & Tails co-op game. Then that would be just hardcore.

[turbojet]

Still nothing on this game? So umm you guys try hacking Sega anytime soon?

[Marcello]

Oh... yeah... that's only what we've been talking about...

But on subject, I have a possible way to have the end level ring with mini bosses. you could collect the 3 (insert)s in the level. After you hit the goal post (or it lands on the ground), if you have all 3 (insert)s, the giant ring apears.

NO. That was the thing I hate most about Sonic Advance 2 >_<. I want it to be like in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. There it was done best. Sonic Rush was also pretty good.

[BlueFlare]

NO. That was the thing I hate most about Sonic Advance 2 >_<. I want it to be like in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. There it was done best. Sonic Rush was also pretty good.

Yeah those Sonic Advance 2 special stages were really frustrating and difficult to get. I hope they'd make special stages easier to find in this game. I liked how those were done in Sonic 2 and 3. I think those would work the best.

[Blue Blood]

NO. That was the thing I hate most about Sonic Advance 2 >_<. I want it to be like in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. There it was done best. Sonic Rush was also pretty good.

Searching for items to unlock a special bonus is YAY!

Having to find them all in one go is NAY!

Finding 7 awkwardly placed items to enter a terrible Special Stage is NO WAY!

S3&K and Rush made accessing special stages perhaps a little TOO easy though.

[Marcello]

Ok, I guess it was easy (You could find like 3 or 4 Warp Rings in Angel Island O.O), but I liked looking for them. Another thing that sucked in Sonic Advance 2 was that if you fail the Special Stage you had to collect all the Keys again. But if it saves what you got like in Sonic Advance 3, it'd be okay, but I don't know if I'd want that many things to collect.

[azoo]

Personally I've never been much of a fan of Special Stages. Sure, they're fun and addicting, but I don't need special stages to make it a good game for me.

[Badnik Zero]

I don't like the idea of collecting things for a special stage. Of course you need to collect rings for the end of stage entrance and the star post entrance, but they're not specific items. It's more of a matter of being good enough to not get hit than searching around for rings. Collection isn't real attractive in a platformer, it's like a throw away mission. Mario's red coins and Banjo's Jinjos are like this. Each game them and instead of coming up with level or gameplay related missions, you just collect things. They're good in their own respect because they add extra play, but it's the most basic form of fetch mission. I'd rather the special stage be accessed through gameplay means. It was a nice touch to have the special stage entrance work by boosting in Sonic Rush. I'm a big fan of the time travel gimmick in Sonic CD, because plays right off the speed of the game. It'd be pretty cool if there was a special stage post that gave you some kind of glow, and then if you maintained high speed for long enough you'd warp away. I wouldn't mind the early 8-bit method of Emeralds in stages either, to be honest. I don't need a special stage.

[azoo]

I'd actually like it better if Act 1 would feature the ordinary signpost/goal ring/whatever, Act 2 features a mini-boss that protects an animal capsule, and Act 3 features Eggman using a boss machine that is powered by a Chaos Emerald, and you get the emerald after defeating Eggman. Actually, I think I like that idea over special stages by any means.

Either that or, yeah, like off the Gamegear games. You just find them hidden somewhere in one of the levels.

Edited November 2, 2009 by The Joker

[Marcello]

But than, you'd just be getting them during the Story like (most of) the 3D games. I'd rather have special stages.

[azoo]

I just don't care for the Chaos Emeralds, Special Stages, and yes, even Super Sonic all that much. I'd like to see a Sonic game again which shows that the motive is to get the Chaos Emeralds, yet it'd have nothing to do with Super Sonic, since for some reason "mandatory Chaos Emeralds = Super Sonic against final boss". I'd rather it be where Sonic just gets the emeralds and does something different this time around. Like how it was with SCD where getting the emeralds led to giving the Miracle Planet a good future (except those were Time Stones).

Plus, although they're very addictive, I don't like having to get the Chaos Emeralds by going through this big psuedo-3D stage that drags away from the central gameplay. Sure, special stages are ok, but I'd rather gather them in a way that doesn't alter the gameplay style. A good way of doing this would be through either making it part of the storyline, or making it like the Gamegear games and put them in hidden places all through the levels.

If they are to do the Special Stages again, though, I'd rather see it where they take the ordinary gameplay and twist it up a bit. Nothing too different from what you start off playing. A good example of this would be like S1GG's special stage (except with the Emerald at the end); it controls the same as the normal game, but it puts springs and rings and bumpers everywhere so that it presents a challenge and isn't too much of a chore to get the Chaos Emerald.

Edited November 2, 2009 by The Joker

[Badnik Zero]

I agree with Marcello in this case. Sega seems unwilling to put Emeralds in 3D gameplay, so I'll take them when I can in 2D. Another something I liked was Nack in Triple Trouble, where he acted like an Emerald mini-boss. That's actually what I liked about the character, that he was sneaky enough to beat Sonic to the special stage. But if you mix that with the 8-bit method, you could have these off the path areas of the level with bosses in them. So instead of just getting Emeralds, there'd be these hidden bosses you'd want to search out to fight.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Remynaka]

I kindof like the idea of them being in the storyline. It makes the most sense seeing as how everything is powered/used/made with the Chaos Emeralds in mind. So with that being said, if they have to yet again be a plot point, make it in the storyline so it makes sense.