Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Tomboyish Mermaid]

I still think that this whole splitting of the modern world of Sonic into two different timelines was a stupid idea. It makes everything even more complicated than it already is. We have the Classic Era, that is now its own universe, and now we have two different timelines of the Modern Era, each with a different world: one that has humans and another that none. Does this mean that Maria and Elise were animal girls in the non-human-timeline? Or did these events never happen? 

[Razule]

32 minutes ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

I still think that this whole splitting of the modern world of Sonic into two different timelines was a stupid idea. It makes everything even more complicated than it already is. We have the Classic Era, that is now its own universe, and now we have two different timelines of the Modern Era, each with a different world: one that has humans and another that none. Does this mean that Maria and Elise were animal girls in the non-human-timeline? Or did these events even never happened? 

The animal and human worlds aren't two timelines or even in different dimensions. They're two planets that the characters travel between depending on the game. In Adventure 2, they were on the human planet. In Forces, they're on the animal planet. There's one Modern Sonic hopping between two planets. No duplicates.

[VO.SUPER]

Frankly all they need to do to make travel between the two worlds not look arbitrary is just make use of the warp rings again, like Archie and the movie. While thay doesn't solve inconsistencies like Angel Island and such, it's still a quick solution that does make sense. 

If they're gonna make travel between them so seamless, make use of the whole warp ring concept and show seamless interdimensional travel between the worlds. 

[Empire88]

1 hour ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

I still think that this whole splitting of the modern world of Sonic into two different timelines was a stupid idea. It makes everything even more complicated than it already is. We have the Classic Era, that is now its own universe, and now we have two different timelines of the Modern Era, each with a different world: one that has humans and another that none. Does this mean that Maria and Elise were animal girls in the non-human-timeline? Or did these events even never happened? 

What you are thinking of is the Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic split which is different from the Two Worlds lore. You might be mixing them up.

The Modern and Classic split (stupidly, may I add) assumes that Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic are two different characters and have two different lores. Classic Sonic is a different entity with different friends. This is a more recent piece a lore that started in Generations which understandably makes a lot of fans upset because it erases a lot of Sonic's history and has fans treat the characters separately when Sonic was always just Sonic.

The Two Worlds stuff is something else saying that Sonic all this time has been a planet traveller depending on the game. It contradicts things and is a mess, but not the same. It's rough , but it doesn't destroy a lot of the series as much as the Classic/Modern split which only divides fans. 

[Dummy Bear]

13 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Frankly all they need to do to make travel between the two worlds not look arbitrary is just make use of the warp rings again, like Archie and the movie. While thay doesn't solve inconsistencies like Angel Island and such, it's still a quick solution that does make sense. 

If they're gonna make travel between them so seamless, make use of the whole warp ring concept and show seamless interdimensional travel between the worlds. 

I... actually kind of like this idea.

[Empire88]

Supposedly they do use a ring, they just haven't been showing us the ring all of these years, which is half the issue. According to Ian Flynn that is. 

[Razule]

Showing the ring would spoil the movie, which has been a prequel to the games this whole time.

[VO.SUPER]

I mean, it probably just works the same way it worked in Archie and the movie. Throw the damn thing and say where you wanna go, and you go. 

I mean it'd be cool if SEGA would bake it into the culture of the world. Like having giant ships and such passing through rings. It'd be cool, sci-fiish imagery. 

[Tomboyish Mermaid]

Okay, so I messed things up. But when was this established? This is the first time I heard about this whole world traveling thing. Okay, so SA, SA2, probably also Sonic Heroes, Shadow, Sonic 06, and Unleashed takes all place on the planet inhabitant by humans, right? Colors, Lost World, and Forces on the other hand take place on the planet that is run by anthropomorphic animals. If this is the case, then Sonic's original home world, let's call the planet Mobius from now own, is the one with the animals. But... the whole Echidna Tribe from Sonic Adventure also comes from the planet, that is run by humans. How did they get there? Maybe it was explained in some other media, but now I have no clear answers for this question.  

[Dummy Bear]

1 hour ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Frankly all they need to do to make travel between the two worlds not look arbitrary is just make use of the warp rings again, like Archie and the movie. While thay doesn't solve inconsistencies like Angel Island and such, it's still a quick solution that does make sense. 

If they're gonna make travel between them so seamless, make use of the whole warp ring concept and show seamless interdimensional travel between the worlds. 

There is a potential way to solve this:

You could say that the Knuckles tribe migrated to the human world via rings and set up civilization there, angered Chaos down the line causing the destruction, and sent Angel Island back to the animal world. Then you could say that Angle Island somehow traveled through a giant warp ring while Knuckles was asleep and Knuckles.

This is somehow both convolutedly frustrating and fun.

[DabigRG]

You wanna know what's really funny about people believing Two Worlds is a retcon?

Spoiler

In Sonic X, the two worlds were originally one.

 

[Empire88]

1 hour ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

Okay, so I messed things. But when was this established? This is the first time I heard about this whole world traveling. Okay, so SA, SA2, probably also Sonic Heroes, Shadow, Sonic 06, and Unleashed takes all place on the planet inhabitant by humans, right? Colors, Lost World, and Forces on the other hand take place on the planet that is run bay anthropomorphic animals. If this is the case, then Sonic's original home world, let's call the planet Mobius from now own, is the one with the animals. But... the whole Echidna Tribe from Sonic Adventure also comes from the planet, that is run by humans. How did they get there? Maybe it was explained in some other media, but now I have no clear answers for this question.  

I can answer what I know, others can fill in gaps:

The Two Worlds Canon was first known to fans in some interview maybe 10 or so years ago with Takashi Iizuka of Sonic Team. At the time, a lot of people thought that it was something he pulled out of thin air and did himself. As years passed and several Q&A panels occurred with fans asking questions concerning clarification over the two worlds, as well Ian Flynn's podcasts on Youtube, where he talks about what he was told by Sega, it started to become more clear that apparently the Two World canon was something established long ago by Yuji Naka in the series early days. (I forgot if this included Pre-Adventure games as well). To answer your question how they get there: According to Ian Flynn in a podcast, the lore works exactly like the Sonic movie. Sonic and friends all use a magic ring portal to travel to the other world whenever they have business there. We haven't seen these portals in game though. 

The issue that irks a lot of fans are some of the points you brought up. It brings up some contradictions, as well as introducing some idea that we are suddenly supposed to believe Sonic and friends use magic rings that we have never seen in any game until now in between games. At the end of the day, the Two Worlds Canon doesn't change the series too much, as much as it sort of changes everything we thought we knew about Sonic in a way that seems a little unbelievable after all these years. It's not a new rule as much as an explanation all lot people really don't want to believe (understandably). 

Edit for clarification: We knew of warp rings. Just not them being used in between games for interplanetary travel between two worlds we thought were one. 

[Diogenes]

13 minutes ago, mitsunari88 said:

as well as introducing some idea that we are suddenly supposed to believe Sonic and friends use magic rings that we have never seen in any game until now in between games.

I mean, it's hardly a new idea for the series.

[Indigo Rush]

17 minutes ago, mitsunari88 said:

The issue that irks a lot of fans are some of the points you brought up. It brings up some contradictions, as well as introducing some idea that we are suddenly supposed to believe Sonic and friends use magic rings that we have never seen in any game until now in between games. 

Erm. Warp rings have always been a thing in the games. Where'd you get the idea that this was something the movie came up with?

[Empire88]

I should clarify. I know the warp rings exists. 

I was meaning the idea that we never see Sonic and co actually travel to the other world. There was never any indication that those same portals were the one's Sonic use to go to the Human World. Unless I forgetting something which is possible as I am not a lore expert and I know others know more than me.

It's just we never seen it used for actual world travel for humans world vs Sonic world

[Dummy Bear]

I assumed those warp rings only took you to special stages.

[Empire88]

15 minutes ago, Slash said:

I assumed those warp rings only took you to special stages.

Yep. That is what I was trying to say in my badly-worded paragraph. I never assumed it like the Sonic movie where Sonic and co are just using their local ring spot or collection of rings to go to a whole different planet. Otherwise, I knew the warp rings themselves existed. 

[charmsb]

Look, I stopped reading a few replies up, but we're running in circles about this whole dumb issue. Saying the same things over and over again. Doesn't matter whether this two worlds thing has been there since Sonic 1 or Sonic Colors. What matters is the idea itself.

In my opinion it really just complicates things too much, but if they can execute the idea in a satisfying way that doesn't make me want to cry, then whatever, really. It's super sloppy and contradicts a lot of what we have already seen from the series, but, let's be honest. Sonic Team hasn't really cared about continuity since Sonic 06, and even that game abandoned a lot of ideas and started trying completely new ones. Since then there's been absolutely no continuity besides Wisps existing, nostalgia callbacks, and signature character abilities. They don't care that Two Worlds fucks up some old lore because they really don't care about old lore. Which is a shame, and I really wouldn't mill around waiting for Sonic to hop through a warp ring and fight GUN. Its not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

Its an excuse to go forward in a different direction for the series. That's just about all it is. Yeah it kinda sucks, but its useless to keep arguing for or against it.

[Empire88]

Umm... I don't think there is arguing? I think we were just explaining because someone didn't know what the Two World theory was.

And then I made a wording mistake in my post which we were discussing. Otherwise I don't think there is any ill-harboring right now.

[Tomboyish Mermaid]

It is a very complicated concept. I mean, Mario also doesn't have two Mushroom Kingdoms, where he and his friends always jump from one to the other, it is just one. Why can't Sonic just also have one consistent world? 

[StaticMania]

4 minutes ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

It is a very complicated concept. I mean, Mario also doesn't have two Mushroom Kingdoms, where he and his friends always jump from one to the other, it is just one. Why can't Sonic just also have one consistent world? 

They can, it's not like the Mushroom Kingdom is the whole world.

[Razule]

20 minutes ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

It is a very complicated concept. I mean, Mario also doesn't have two Mushroom Kingdoms, where he and his friends always jump from one to the other, it is just one. Why can't Sonic just also have one consistent world? 

SEGA does what Nintendon't.

[charmsb]

1 hour ago, mitsunari88 said:

Umm... I don't think there is arguing? I think we were just explaining because someone didn't know what the Two World theory was.

And then I made a wording mistake in my post which we were discussing. Otherwise I don't think there is any ill-harboring right now.

There wasn't, I was just talking about how this issue has been going on for a few pages and we keep saying the same things over and over. There's no ill will being thrown at anyone.

[Razule]

8 minutes ago, charmsb said:

There wasn't, I was just talking about how this issue has been going on for a few pages and we keep saying the same things over and over. There's no ill will being thrown at anyone.

Yeah, the two worlds topic has that effect. There isn't really anything new to say about it. It's bad, everyone knows it's bad.

[Pengi]

1 hour ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

It is a very complicated concept. I mean, Mario also doesn't have two Mushroom Kingdoms, where he and his friends always jump from one to the other, it is just one. Why can't Sonic just also have one consistent world? 

In Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, they revealed that Paper Mario is a separate world from regular Mario.

They once said that Yoshi's universe is separate from the Mushroom Kingdom: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/11/20/yoshis-woolly-worlds-burning-questions.aspx