Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Forte-Metallix]

1 hour ago, Detective Kaito said:

Aaron also said that your CaC will appear in cutscenes. You can "customize how the character controls" by using different Wispons outside of the level and then go back into the level to try it out and reach new areas.

Both Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces will be playable at E3.

This was actually my biggest hope for the Custom Character. 

Making my own OC is nice and all, but deciding what kinds of gadgets and abilities they'll have is what'll really make each creation unique. Each of us might be able make a hero that fits our own preferred gameplay style! (Unless we want something like Adventure, then we're out of luck.)

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What? When has DK been "cool and edgy"?

Have you ever seen Donkey Kong Jungle Beat? DK basically goes around beating the absolute shite out of everyone while parkouring his way across levels. 

The violence and tone never reach Shadow levels of edgy, but it's definitely more intense than your average Nintendo game. DK's basically a kid-friendly Kratos with how ruthless he is.

[Chris Knopps]

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The 90's were pretty fucking wild.

Well, plus in the old days you had bosses that were literal swords chasing you and in modern titles you're escaping raging fires, watching your home get completely frozen over, etc.

Quote

Your own character is the hero!*

Play and interact with Sonic!*

 

 

*1: He's the supporting character. Not the main hero.

*2: Interaction is limited to grunting.

 

Can they just announce Tails is the villain now and get it over with?

It's another "our consumers are dwindling, lets do anything we can to bring in NON-fans and get NEW consumers!" game man, what do you expect?

[Wraith]

When this kind of discussion comes up it always feels like everyone is taking the word "edgy" to mean something different and they're not on the same page as a result.

[Diogenes]

So did they change the definitions of the words "cool" and "edgy" recently because I still don't see how DK is supposed to be either. Maybe a little cool sometimes, but it's cheesy and silly more often than not.

[Chris Knopps]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

When this kind of discussion comes up it always feels like everyone is taking the word "edgy" to mean something different and they're not on the same page as a result.

I just think I see more "cool" and "edge" in these games than Sonic nowadays.

The DKC Returns and Rayman Legends series are pretty spectacular at delivering on these.

Maybe it's something to do with the plots of the games. Rather than just trying to "sound" and "look" things like "cool" and "edgy" they just keep quiet and be these things without the need for focus on these aspects of the title.

The stages have a general emphasis on action/pace and progression and the designs tend to follow a cinematic theme more often than not. While you play there are a bunch of "cool" and "edgy" things going on around you.

[Shadowlax]

Edgy means " thing I don't like" 

people have called steven universe edgy for presenting some very good lessons for kids watching to learn.But they don't like those lessons, so its edgy. 

Edgy has lost all meaning besides its most literal one. 

Edgy is to the point to where if someone brings it up in an argument sometimes people will just ignore the rest of that argument. 

 

[Dr. Detective]

The definition of the word "edgy" as it applies to this series often changes from person to person depending on how much drama and conflict their okay with seeing in their Sonic games.

I personally feel it's ridiculous referring to anything we've seen from Forces as "edgy" for instance. Destroyed cities and buildings on fire I was used to seeing in many action cartoons for kids.

I just remembered, I saw the Powerpuff Girls Movie again recently. Those monkeys FUCKED that city up! I mean they tore it the hell apart! Jesus!

[Wraith]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I just think I see more "cool" and "edge" in these games than Sonic nowadays.

The DKC Returns and Rayman Legends series are pretty spectacular at delivering on these.

Maybe it's something to do with the plots of the games. Rather than just trying to "sound" and "look" things like "cool" and "edgy" they just keep quiet and be these things without the need for focus on these aspects of the title.

The stages have a general emphasis on action/pace and progression and the designs tend to follow a cinematic theme more often than not. While you play there are a bunch of "cool" and "edgy" things going on around you.

I think you're just talking about plain spectacle and flash here. In my opinion, that's only been gone as far as Lost World is concerned. Neither of the games you mentioned have very strong plots, emotional moments, or even a darker tone.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Edgy means " thing I don't like" 

people have called steven universe edgy for presenting some very good lessons for kids watching to learn.But they don't like those lessons, so its edgy. 

Edgy has lost all meaning besides its most literal one. 

Edgy is to the point to where if someone brings it up in an argument sometimes people will just ignore the rest of that argument. 

 

Isn't that show about LGBT rights and stuff basically? Kind of like Korra was in the last season or two.

I fail to see how that's "edgy" or inherently bad lessons. Maybe not topics some parents will agree with per' se but certainly not bad. Steven is a pretty great series on a channel that's otherwise swamp filled poison nowadays.

I suppose that final sentence IS also true... Food for thought.

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Isn't that show about LGBT rights and stuff basically? Kind of like Korra was in the last season or two.

I fail to see how that's "edgy" or inherently bad lessons. Maybe not topics some parents will agree with per' se but certainly not bad. Steven is a pretty great series on a channel that's otherwise swamp filled poison nowadays.

I suppose that final sentence IS also true... Food for though

Those aren't. They are very good lessons, people don't like them, so they are " edgy" you see, no meaning. Or the meaning is what the person wants it to be. 

 

[Indigo Rush]

Edgy isn't really how I'd describe Steven Universe, Korra or any popular kid's cartoon.

Edgy is Shadow's game, Sonic '06, Sonic Adventure 2. Anything involving a combination of blaring rock/metal music, 'dark' themes, juvenile violence and vulgarity, etc.

In other words, a failed attempt at mature theming and subject matter, which Sonic is incredibly guilty of.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Neither Korra or Steven Universe are about LGBT rights, too. Saying "love yourself" and having lesbians in your show doesn't suddenly turn you into a social justice revolutionary or whatever, and even then Korra just kind of brought it's subjects in as an ending plot twist (with almost no buildup whatsoever) to spite Nickelodeon and Viacom.

That said, the idea of "edgy" is based around trying to look dark without any concept of what makes dark storytelling work. It's essentially the same principle as that of the cliche. This does not apply to Donkey Kong in any way whatsoever, and hardly does to anything Sonic-related from Unleashed onward. Park Avenue's burnt aesthetic is moody-looking, sure, but nothing about the attitude the game is presenting gives any semblance of the story suddenly pretending to be darker than it inevitably will end up being.

Korra/Avatar have standard shonen anime-level darkness (toned down, even, since there's hardly any blood or even deaths in the plots proper) and Steven Universe is the opposite of edgy in a lot of ways, since it's art style betrays the very correctly mature emotional core, leading to a show that appears 'a kids cartoon' but is much darker only when it's core concepts are considered in greater detail.

[Chris Knopps]

7 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Edgy isn't really how I'd describe Steven Universe, Korra or any popular kid's cartoon.

Edgy is Shadow's game, Sonic '06, Sonic Adventure 2. Anything involving a combination of blaring rock/metal music, 'dark' themes, juvenile violence and vulgarity, etc.

In other words, a failed attempt at mature theming and subject matter, which Sonic is incredibly guilty of.

Don't folks think we should start leaving SA2 out of the situation of being TOO of a particular thing so we can stop getting these ridiculous Lost Word games that go too far in the opposite directions and Forces games that point out all too bluntly how scared SEGA is of the consumers they have left?

SA and SA2, perfectly fine, Shadow and 06, yes, those were a problem. If we keep saying "SA2 was too much!! Stay away!! No no no!!" all we're ever going to get that even TRIES to take itself seriously is Forces after Forces titles that expose how confused and wary they are.

[Dr. Detective]

Even as someone who can admit to the flaws of Adventure 2 today, I still maintain it overall has more in common with the first Adventure then the constant moaning, dreariness of Shadow and 06. 

Most of SA2's story was just big, awesome, action movie set pieces with a twinge of a mature thing driving it in the background to me.

I want Eggman to blow up more islands and more moons. And I want more trucks detroying cars down the streets of San Francisco. And more fighting your rivals over giant pools of lava. Cool shit.

 

[Shadowlax]

Also the problem with that definition of edgy is that I play games I will call edgy in jest that aren't failures in maturity, they are that way for a reason. like DMC1,3, and 4. Or Resident evil, or Metal gear rising. 

4 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Neither Korra or Steven Universe are about LGBT rights, too. Saying "love yourself" and having lesbians in your show doesn't suddenly turn you into a social justice revolutionary or whatever, and even then Korra just kind of brought it's subjects in as an ending plot twist (with almost no buildup whatsoever) to spite Nickelodeon and Viacom.

That said, the idea of "edgy" is based around trying to look dark without any concept of what makes dark storytelling work. It's essentially the same principle as that of the cliche. This does not apply to Donkey Kong in any way whatsoever, and hardly does to anything Sonic-related from Unleashed onward. Park Avenue's burnt aesthetic is moody-looking, sure, but nothing about the attitude the game is presenting gives any semblance of the story suddenly pretending to be darker than it inevitably will end up being.

Korra/Avatar have standard shonen anime-level darkness (toned down, even, since there's hardly any blood or even deaths in the plots proper) and Steven Universe is the opposite of edgy in a lot of ways, since it's art style betrays the very correctly mature emotional core, leading to a show that appears 'a kids cartoon' but is much darker only when it's core concepts are considered in greater detail.

You are trying to give a definition of edgy , where someone is calling some new cartoon edgy right now for saying as you said " love yourself" , edgy just means at this point, shit I don't like that I don't usually see. 

I've seen someone on neogaf call super mario sunshine, edgy. 

Edgy is a word who's meaning is lost to time

[JezMM]

While limited in scope, Lost World did the Rayman thing of "progress through a course where if you slow down you'll get chomped by a hazard" thing a bunch, particularly Sky Road 2 and both the "Sea Bottom Segue" scored stages, and it did the Donkey Kong thing of "show a slight sense of melancholy regarding desperate situations" through the cut-scenes towards the end of the game and... again, those Sea Bottom stages, particularly Lava Mountain's.

And this was like... the WORST Sonic game for this stuff, but it still managed to do it a little.  Rayman is just more snappy about it thanks to the 2D art style and Donkey Kong is just more persistant with it due to a general identity for the series to use atmospheric, sombre music for a lot of stages.

But like, this argument is coming from the same person who sees the Sonic CD Bad Futures as super edgy and dark which many already disagreed with so this is kinda nothing new.  Not to disparage any of these as invalid opinions Chris Knopps, just saying I consider this idea that Rayman and Donkey Kong are edgier than Sonic to be in that same vein.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just now, Shadowlax said:

You are trying to give a definition of edgy , where someone is calling some new cartoon edgy right now for saying as you said " love yourself" , edgy just means at this point, shit I don't like that I don't usually see. 

So a word only means what someone acts like it means, rather than it's actual definition? No, I'd rather not stand for that. Shit like this is the reason the word "literally" is listed in the dictionary as being defined both by what it means, and the exact opposite of what it means.

[Shadowlax]

4 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

So a word only means what someone acts like it means, rather than it's actual definition?

Basically, like litt...

Quote

 

No, I'd rather not stand for that. Shit like this is the reason the word "literally" is listed in the dictionary as being defined both by what it means, and the exact opposite of what it means.

Yeah like that. Folks call Pokemon edgy because they are new, and not because they are actually edgy. They are new and unfamiliar, so it is edgy to them. I heard someone call sonic boom edgy and that shit is the most basic milk toast shit i've seen in a hot minute. But its different and they don't like it, so its edgy. And to be quite honest, if we are taking the definition of edgy being someone being on fringe, then its actually kind of accurate , but only to the users perspective. 

It is not in their wheel house, they don't often interact with it, so it must be something not a lot of people like, it must be " on the edge". The user does not consider what this thing is to over all society in these cases, because if they did , they would know that putting violence and action in something to make it cooler is actually some of the most run of the mill shit ever. But they do not care, it is not about that, if they are to acknowledge that other things exist and other things have done this before,it invalidates their view of it. It becomes normal, but if they only view it from their perspective, its edgy. 

 

[JezMM]

I mean, words changing meaning or being used in new contexts is how language evolves.  Just because someone misuses a word, you don't disregard their entire opinion.  If they aren't using "edgy" to mean what you think it means, look at their other words and suss out what they are REALLY saying.

In Steven Universe and Korra's case, what they really mean is they find them progressive (which, if they're using "edgy" as a negative term, they likely think the progressiveness is cheap and just being done for the sake of views.  Which is an opinion I personally find completely stupid but an opinion nonetheless).  Obviously whether you then correct them on their word usage is your perogative.

[Chris Knopps]

11 minutes ago, JezMM said:

While limited in scope, Lost World did the Rayman thing of "progress through a course where if you slow down you'll get chomped by a hazard" thing a bunch, particularly Sky Road 2 and both the "Sea Bottom Segue" scored stages, and it did the Donkey Kong thing of "show a slight sense of melancholy regarding desperate situations" through the cut-scenes towards the end of the game and... again, those Sea Bottom stages, particularly Lava Mountain's.

And this was like... the WORST Sonic game for this stuff, but it still managed to do it a little.  Rayman is just more snappy about it thanks to the 2D art style and Donkey Kong is just more persistant with it due to a general identity for the series to use atmospheric, sombre music for a lot of stages.

But like, this argument is coming from the same person who sees the Sonic CD Bad Futures as super edgy and dark which many already disagreed with so this is kinda nothing new.  Not to disparage any of these as invalid opinions Chris Knopps, just saying I consider this idea that Rayman and Donkey Kong are edgier than Sonic to be in that same vein.

SEGA executed things in an overall poor manner in Lost World, so while they "did the thing" the series I've mentioned have done and/or are doing, as always, they did it badly in comparison.

For some reason this last part comes off as a bit of a backhand in my direction... And was it necessary to do this when you said opinions and make yourself seem smug as though I'm not aware of that...?

If you have to be that way then ignore my posts.

There's just things the two series I mentioned and Sonic go for in common that I feel result in something better from the former compared to Sonic today.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just now, Shadowlax said:

Basically, like litt...

Yeah like that. Folks call Pokemon edgy because they are new, and not because they are actually edgy. They are new and unfamiliar, so it is edgy to them. I heard someone call sonic boom edgy and that shit is the most basic milk toast shit i've seen in a hot minute. But its different and they don't like it, so its edgy. And to be quite honest, if we are taking the definition of edgy being someone being on fringe, then its actually kind of accurate , but only to the users perspective. 

Okay, then I'm just gonna say that you're then outlier, then, because I've never heard anyone say that in my life, and I'm pretty sure most other people here still know edgy as "fake dark", however often they may apply them to unfitting nouns. If such is the case, then you should be the one changing your personal definition, not telling everyone else to.

And y'know, don't go along with what stupid people say just because you don't care. Have a little tact, man.

[JezMM]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

SEGA executed things in an overall poor manner in Lost World, so while they "did the thing" the series I've mentioned have done and/or are doing, as always, they did it badly in comparison.

For some reason this last part comes off as a bit of a backhand in my direction... And was it necessary to do this when you said opinions and make yourself seem smug as though I'm not aware of that...?

There's just things the two series I mentioned and Sonic go for in common that I feel result in something better from the former compared to Sonic today.

I meant nothing backhanded or smug about it at all, which is why I clarified I didn't intend to disparage any of your opinions on Rayman/Donkey Kong/the Bad Futures.  Just that your views presented were consistent in style with previous views that many in the thread disagreed on.

I guess what I meant to say was I don't understand how your mind particularly works with having these views but they do seem to both be views from similar lines of thinking so I partially just have to write it off as "yeah I don't get it I guess he just sees media differently to me like the Bad Future thing from earlier".  I probably could have put it in a nicer way if I had thought about it longer, so I apologise.

[Chris Knopps]

5 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Okay, then I'm just gonna say that you're then outlier, then, because I've never heard anyone say that in my life, and I'm pretty sure most other people here still know edgy as "fake dark", however often they may apply them to unfitting nouns. If such is the case, then you should be the one changing your personal definition, not telling everyone else to.

And y'know, don't go along with what stupid people say just because you don't care. Have a little tact, man.

How... Can you "fake dark" exactly? That's a new one to me and a bit confusing...

I mean, dark is dark, it's pretty precise. Shadow and 06 was dark and heck, every Sonic title ever made (that's worth knowing about) has had some kind of darkness in it. Genesis games, Handheld games, Adventure games, Modern games...

I feel like I'm missing something with that one...

[Dr. Detective]

If Mufasa died in a Sonic game would that be considered edgy by the masses?

I wonder.

 

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

19 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

That said, the idea of "edgy" is based around trying to look dark without any concept of what makes dark storytelling work. It's essentially the same principle as that of the cliche.

A shortening of when I said this earlier.