Pontaff Retrospective: What's Up with all the Hate?

[azoo]

I always did thought that the Pontaff games were sort of a "prototype" to what Boom is so I guess with Boom out, maybe, JUST MAYBE, we can go back to what the main series was originally about?

Dammit Azoo, why do you have to make something so intriguing from nothing?!

Well I've had the theory on my mind for ages already, but with all the talk about it I decided to bring it up, since it seems more sensible than ever before to bring it up now.

Once again, no sign that this could be what's up, but if the next Sonic game ends up ditching the writing style we've had, then well... I called it. By

[Bowbowis]

This theory of yours would also shed some new light on SEGA trying to rehire Ryan Drummond for Generations. That always did strike me as a bit of an odd move given how determined the series seems to be to distance itself from the Adventure games as of late.

[NoirSuede]

This theory of yours would also shed some new light on SEGA trying to rehire Ryan Drummond for Generations. That always did strike me as a bit of an odd move given how determined the series seems to be to distance itself from the Adventure games as of late.

These days not really though, considering that Runners has an event dedicated to SA1 for some reason.

[Fake Hedgehog]

 

Yeah. 

When I put some thought into it and the character and writing shift just doesn't add up. I think it's a process of splitting Sonic into an both American and Japanese lines.

 

Firstly, we know from rumours before we even knew about Boom that they've been planning a 2014 reboot since 2009. Once 2014 came around, it was realized that this "reboot" was Sonic Boom. The year immediately after was the year they switched from the 4Kids English cast and Japanese writers to Pontac and Graff, and Roger Craig Smith. 

 

Secondly, lets compare at the characterizations of Adventure Sonic (1998-2009), Modern Sonic (2010-2013) and Boom Sonic.

 

You know that the Adventure Sonic and accompanying characters all had multi-dimensional characters, and especially the Adventures and Sonic X had a heavy focus of character development.

 

Sonic is a stubborn, free-soul with a rude attitude but a heart of gold.

 

Tails is an immature, curious and ambitous soul who stays in the protection of Sonic's shadow, daring to creep out to either his demise or his glory.

 

Knuckles is brash, and hot-headed. Very "intellectual thug"-like. His no-nonsense attitude clashes with Sonic's care-free, fun demeanor and stubborn as they both are they butt heads often yet need to work together.

 

Amy is a compassionate and intuitive, with an "immature but motherly" femininity. Her romantic interest in Sonic gets her into most Adventures to begin with, but she will increasingly take on her own side missions independent of him.

 

Eggman is a typical villain. He's devious, he's serious, he has a plan.

His most unique trait must be determination. His goofy side stems from this, becoming so irrate in his intents that he can become outright deranged or kooky.

 

This characterization was maintained from Adventure, through Sonic X, Rush, Sonic 06 and up to Black Knight. These productions all had a similiar, overlapping rotation of Japanese writers. Black Knight was especially good with it's cinema and characterizations.

 

Immediately after this was a shift to an American cast, and the differences in the characters is evident. The Modern Cast:

 

Sonic becomes arrogant and sarcastic. Unlikeable. Annoying.

 

Tails becomes a hooded-eyelids-confident smart-alec. On some Bugs Bunny shit.

 

The friendship between these two to now so heavily emphasized and used as a plot or discussion point that it feels fake.

 

Knuckles is no longer just brash and hot-headed, but "brawn over brains". He's loud and plain stupid, whereas many would go as far as to cite brain-power as one of his defining characteristics during the Adventure characterization era. 

 

Amy flip-flopped a bit, but alluding to Lost World she became more intensely motherly without the immaturity aspect, and her romantic interest in Sonic is meant to be secret, only hinted at.

 

Eggman is a complete joke. He's just a fuck-up for Sonic to bounce puns off of.

 

I call this an Americanization of the series because the characters simply became more "American", devolved.

 

The characters all behave as if they are much older then officially cited, and their deeper, older voice actors reflect this. Remember that maturity is an American value.

 

Sarcasm, arrogance, maturity and talking

take the place of 

situational and subtle one-liners, character-development, youthfulness/immaturity and overall action.

 

All attempts to create multi-dimensionalness in the characters is very cheap, very short-lived and very obvious.

"I wasn't fast enough to save my buddy". Whatever fam.

 

 

Boom Sonic was interesting, because it's meant to be an off-shoot of the main series, yet looking at Modern Sonic and Boom Sonic they're the same thing, but Boom is like "Modern Sonic cranked up to 11"

 

Sonic is arrogant and sarcastic, but more so.

 

Tails is a hooded-eyelids-confident smart-alec, but more so.

 

The friendship between these two to now so heavily emphasized that it feels fake, but more so.

 

Knuckles is "brawn over brains", but more so. (They literally gave him huge muscles and actually removed his frontal lobe this time) 

 

Amy is intensely motherly without the immaturity aspect, and her romantic interest in Sonic is meant to be secret, but more so.

 

Eggman is a complete joke, but more so.

 

The characters all behave as if they are much older then officially cited, but more so.

 

They stand around and talk, but more so.

Compare the Boom Sonic TV show to the Adventure Sonic TV show; Sonic X was heavily action and fighting, Sonic Boom has very little action and fighting.

 

It makes no sense that they would come out with a spin-off series that's the exact same as the main one.

 

On top of this, see Sonic Channel, the official Sonic website, specifically their wallpapers. You can easily see by the way the characters are portrayed in these wallpapers that the artist maintains the Adventure-characterizations, not the modern ones.

 

So there was no change to the management team, no announcement of a reboot, no change to the official descriptions or management of the characters; just the rumors of a 2014 rebot since 2009, and a switch to Pontac and Graff as writers and Roger Craig Smith as the voice one year later, the same team who would go on to write and voice Boom in 2014.

 

It doesn't add up. For all these reasons I'm predicting the sudden writing shift was only test for how people would react to Boom. Pontac and Graff, and Craig Smith aswell as the rest of the Americanization of Sonic will be relocated to Boom and they will switch back to Japanese writers and the 4Kids cast for the 25th Anniversary and onward. SEGA and Sonic Team under Iizuka aren't this stupid, they wouldn't ruin their characters for no reason.

 

 

 

 

On top of this, I believe the Sonic Runners Adventure event, a lot of the content in Runners, aswell as the Adventure XBLA/PSN ports is evidence for the 25th Anniversary game being an Adventure and/or Adventure 2 remake. But that's another far-fetched theory for another time.

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Fake Hedgehog
JASON GRIFFITH EXPECT HIM.

[NoirSuede]

On top of this, I believe the Sonic Runners Adventure event, a lot of the content in Runners, as well as the Adventure XBLA/PSN ports is evidence for the 25th Anniversary game being an Adventure and/or Adventure 2 remake. But that's another far-fetched theory for another time.

 Maybe Sonic Team would make something like Yakuza Kiwami for Sonic Adventure that irons out all of the gameplay problems alongside the 25th Anniversary game ?

 

So there was no change to the management team, no announcement of a reboot, no change to the official descriptions or management of the characters; just the rumors of a 2014 rebot since 2009, and a switch to Pontac and Graff as writers and Roger Craig Smith as the voice one year later, the same team who would go on to write and voice Boom in 2014.

 

It doesn't add up. For all these reasons I'm predicting the sudden writing shift was only test for how people would react to Boom. Pontac and Graff, and Craig Smith aswell as the rest of the Americanization of Sonic will be relocated to Boom and they will switch back to Japanese writers and the 4Kids cast for the 25th Anniversary and onward. SEGA and Sonic Team under Iizuka aren't this stupid, they wouldn't ruin their characters for no reason.

 

Or you know Sega could've changed from the 4Kids cast to Roger just because Roger was cheaper than the 4Kids cast.

damn it i shouldn't have mentioned yakuza here, now everyone's gonna ignore this post while they powerbomb each other with 10 paragraf essays

Edited October 3, 2015 by NoirSuede

[C.J]

 Or you know Sega could've changed from the 4Kids cast to Roger just because Roger was cheaper than the 4Kids cast.

damn it i shouldn't have mentioned yakuza here, now everyone's gonna ignore this post while they powerbomb each other with 10 paragraf essays

I believe they changed cast because the contract expired and they didn't renew it for whatever reason which I thought was a shame.

[NoirSuede]

I believe they changed cast because the contract expired.

Well if Sega's still wants to hire them Sega could've just renew the contract, but they didn't so it's either because they're lazy or because the contract renewal was outrageously expensive.

[Fake Hedgehog]

 Or you know Sega could've changed from the 4Kids cast to Roger just because Roger was cheaper than the 4Kids cast

 ya, okay well I don't like Craighog and Graff so I'll just stick to my own confirmation bias. [:

[Wraith]

 

Yeah. 

When I put some thought into it and the character and writing shift just doesn't add up. I think it's a process of splitting Sonic into an both American and Japanese lines.

 

Firstly, we know from rumours before we even knew about Boom that they've been planning a 2014 reboot since 2009. Once 2014 came around, it was realized that this "reboot" was Sonic Boom. The year immediately after was the year they switched from the 4Kids English cast and Japanese writers to Pontac and Graff, and Roger Craig Smith. 

 

Secondly, lets compare at the characterizations of Adventure Sonic (1998-2009), Modern Sonic (2010-2013) and Boom Sonic.

 

You know that the Adventure Sonic and accompanying characters all had multi-dimensional characters, and especially the Adventures and Sonic X had a heavy focus of character development.

 

Sonic is a stubborn, free-soul with a rude attitude but a heart of gold.

 

Tails is an immature, curious and ambitous soul who stays in the protection of Sonic's shadow, daring to creep out to either his demise or his glory.

 

Knuckles is brash, and hot-headed. Very "intellectual thug"-like. His no-nonsense attitude clashes with Sonic's care-free, fun demeanor and stubborn as they both are they butt heads often yet need to work together.

 

Amy is a compassionate and intuitive, with an "immature but motherly" femininity. Her romantic interest in Sonic gets her into most Adventures to begin with, but she will increasingly take on her own side missions independent of him.

 

Eggman is a typical villain. He's devious, he's serious, he has a plan.

His most unique trait must be determination. His goofy side stems from this, becoming so irrate in his intents that he can become outright deranged or kooky.

 

This characterization was maintained from Adventure, through Sonic X, Rush, Sonic 06 and up to Black Knight. These productions all had a similiar, overlapping rotation of Japanese writers. Black Knight was especially good with it's cinema and characterizations.

 

Immediately after this was a shift to an American cast, and the differences in the characters is evident. The Modern Cast:

 

Sonic becomes arrogant and sarcastic. Unlikeable. Annoying.

 

Tails becomes a hooded-eyelids-confident smart-alec. On some Bugs Bunny shit.

 

The friendship between these two to now so heavily emphasized and used as a plot or discussion point that it feels fake.

 

Knuckles is no longer just brash and hot-headed, but "brawn over brains". He's loud and plain stupid, whereas many would go as far as to cite brain-power as one of his defining characteristics during the Adventure characterization era. 

 

Amy flip-flopped a bit, but alluding to Lost World she became more intensely motherly without the immaturity aspect, and her romantic interest in Sonic is meant to be secret, only hinted at.

 

Eggman is a complete joke. He's just a fuck-up for Sonic to bounce puns off of.

 

I call this an Americanization of the series because the characters simply became more "American", devolved.

 

The characters all behave as if they are much older then officially cited, and their deeper, older voice actors reflect this. Remember that maturity is an American value.

 

Sarcasm, arrogance, maturity and talking

take the place of 

situational and subtle one-liners, character-development, youthfulness/immaturity and overall action.

 

All attempts to create multi-dimensionalness in the characters is very cheap, very short-lived and very obvious.

"I wasn't fast enough to save my buddy". Whatever fam.

 

 

Boom Sonic was interesting, because it's meant to be an off-shoot of the main series, yet looking at Modern Sonic and Boom Sonic they're the same thing, but Boom is like "Modern Sonic cranked up to 11"

 

Sonic is arrogant and sarcastic, but more so.

 

Tails is a hooded-eyelids-confident smart-alec, but more so.

 

The friendship between these two to now so heavily emphasized that it feels fake, but more so.

 

Knuckles is "brawn over brains", but more so. (They literally gave him huge muscles and actually removed his frontal lobe this time) 

 

Amy is intensely motherly without the immaturity aspect, and her romantic interest in Sonic is meant to be secret, but more so.

 

Eggman is a complete joke, but more so.

 

The characters all behave as if they are much older then officially cited, but more so.

 

They stand around and talk, but more so.

Compare the Boom Sonic TV show to the Adventure Sonic TV show; Sonic X was heavily action and fighting, Sonic Boom has very little action and fighting.

 

It makes no sense that they would come out with a spin-off series that's the exact same as the main one.

 

On top of this, see Sonic Channel, the official Sonic website, specifically their wallpapers. You can easily see by the way the characters are portrayed in these wallpapers that the artist maintains the Adventure-characterizations, not the modern ones.

 

So there was no change to the management team, no announcement of a reboot, no change to the official descriptions or management of the characters; just the rumors of a 2014 rebot since 2009, and a switch to Pontac and Graff as writers and Roger Craig Smith as the voice one year later, the same team who would go on to write and voice Boom in 2014.

 

It doesn't add up. For all these reasons I'm predicting the sudden writing shift was only test for how people would react to Boom. Pontac and Graff, and Craig Smith aswell as the rest of the Americanization of Sonic will be relocated to Boom and they will switch back to Japanese writers and the 4Kids cast for the 25th Anniversary and onward. SEGA and Sonic Team under Iizuka aren't this stupid, they wouldn't ruin their characters for no reason.

 

I think you're overthinking this. 

All everyone ever did was complain about how bad the old 4kids cast was(for good reason), so they changed them. Most of the cast now has generally good voice actors, so why suddenly switch back to the crew the overwhelming majority said wasn't good and keep the new crew around for this random offshoot that honestly probably won't be around a year from now anyway? 

And really, the way the characters are being characterized isn't really all that different from before aside from Tails's little freakout in Lost World. Nothing I've seen from Sonic doesn't indicate he isn't still a "Stubborn, free soul with a rude attitude and a heart of gold." If anything he's probably closer to this description now more than ever. 

The other characters haven't really been given time to shine, so we don't really have much to go off of with them, but Knuckles hasn't done anything especially dumb in the new games besides being a source of comic relief (which has always been the case as far as Knuckles is concerned to be honest.) and Amy doesn't seem all that much more mature to me either. 

Speaking of Knuckles, this in paticular stuck out to me.

 Knuckles is no longer just brash and hot-headed, but "brawn over brains". He's loud and plain stupid, whereas many would go as far as to cite brain-power as one of his defining characteristics during the Adventure characterization era. 

Where is this coming from? Why do people think Knuckles's intelligence took a sudden drop when he's never actually been all that smart in the first place? From being randomly tricked by Eggman in SA1 to freaking out and crashing the rocket in SA2. He's even been the source of comic relief in a lot of these games before now. 

 SEGA and Sonic Team under Iizuka aren't this stupid, they wouldn't ruin their characters for no reason.

Thing is, I don't even think they see this whole thing as the bastardization the fans do. Most people outside the fanbase think the plots are inoffensive, which is probably considered a step up to them considering how much people (rightfully) used to shit on the stuff they pulled before. 

It may not be the way I or you really want it to be, but I don't think Sega cares that much as long as Sonic's not being torn apart for making out with princesses or turning into a werewolf or whatever. There's no real sign that's going to change any time soon either. 

 

[Fake Hedgehog]

 

I think you're overthinking this. 

possible.

Most of the cast now has generally good voice actors

???????

And really, the way the characters are being characterized isn't really all that different from before aside from Tails's little freakout in Lost World. Nothing I've seen from Sonic doesn't indicate he isn't still a "Stubborn, free soul with a rude attitude and a heart of gold." If anything he's probably closer to this description now more than ever. 

The other characters haven't really been given time to shine, so we don't really have much to go off of with them, but Knuckles hasn't done anything especially dumb in the new games besides being a source of comic relief (which has always been the case as far as Knuckles is concerned to be honest.) and Amy doesn't seem all that much more mature to me either. 

Speaking of Knuckles, this in paticular stuck out to me.

Where is this coming from? Why do people think Knuckles's intelligence took a sudden drop when he's never actually been all that smart in the first place? From being randomly tricked by Eggman in SA1 to freaking out and crashing the rocket in SA2. He's even been the source of comic relief in a lot of these games before now. 

Knuckles is supposed to be a smash first, ask questions later, hot-headed brawn over brains type character. His rivalry with Sonic and hard, dirty and serious contrast to the happy, fun and cheeky has always made him a source of comic relief, to be teased and poked. But he  through the Adventure-characterization era he demonstrates a particular sensibility that many might mistake as intelligence ala Eggman or Tails.

This is completely left out of the Modern  and Boom interpretations of the character. The "hot-headed" aspect of his character is taken to the extreme and this is all he is now.

Sonic is supposed to be stubborn, free soul with a rude and cheeky attitude, and love of justice. The rude and cheeky aspect is taken to the extreme and this is all he is now; arrogant and verbose.

Similarly with Tails; he's smart, innocent and ambitous but the smart aspect is taken to the extreme; he's now a mouthy smart-alec. His child-like innocence, shyness and ambition, gone.

If you think the descriptions still fit, do not be mistaken; the difference between the Adventure-era and the Modern-era is the difference between a multi-dimensional character and a one-dimensional character.

[Toby]

When I think of the Sonic Adventure cast, I sure don't think of the characters as multi-dimensional.

[Kuzu]

Eesh, and people accuse me of having rose-tinted glasses towards the Adventure series

 

But yea, Fake is kind of exaggerating here; Knuckles is like...the only character that has drastically changed over the years.

[Vertekins]

I actually agree with FH to some extent. The characters today really are exagerrated pale shadow's of what they used to be. And as a fan who believes that the characters are engaging the way they were and who despises everything flanderization stands for, I'm quite annoyed.

I already stated my beef with Sonic's current portrayals.

Tails is a pompous character bereft of humility. It's jarring because it's so abrupt; We've seen no believable development that suggests that Sonic has rubbed-off on him. And I don't feel that it's a good fit for his character. And his SLW portrayal is awful. Derailing characters because DRAMA! and not writing them believably in accordance with it is bad writing. Plain and simple.

Knuckles....when he's shown that is....is just boring. And the less said about his atrocious portrayal in Shattered Crystal the better. "She sees me as a piece of meat. And that's AWESOME!" anyone?

Dr Eggman is nowhere near as well as portrayed as he's made out to be. P&G's handling of him has absolved him of much of his impact as a villain simply because he isn't all that proactive. I see Dr Eggman as a villain who gets his hands dirty regarding his plans, etablishing himself as a genuine thorn in Sonic's side who consistently threw curveballs at the heroes. This is virutally non-existent nowadays and the rare instances in which he does shit has any weight about it soon absolved.

[Kuzu]

Yup, guess I'm gonna have to play good ole Devil's Advocate and hope I don't come off as a hypocrite.

 

Ok, before I start, I hope everyone understands that I'm still not a fan of the current writing and I still stand by my previous posts in this thread. 

That said, I don't feel the characters themselves have been "ruined" necessarily, but the circumstances surrounding them have kinda forced them to behave in different situations. Its like, Sonic has always been a braggart, or at the very least was supposed to come off as one...they just kind of ignore it most of the time or downplay it, which is understandable because an entire plot where Sonic talks about himself would get grating really fast (oh hi Sonic Colors :V), but the fact remains...its a character trait he's always had, it didn't just magically happen when Pontac and Graff began writing for the series. 

If Pontac or Graff actually knew how to properly write an actual Action-Adventure story, I don't think they would have to rely on turning the character into comedians to fill out cutscenes. But that being said, I don't agree that the cast have really been "derailed", yes...some traits are more exaggerated than others, but they're ones that have always been there. I hope this makes sense....

 

I'm bored, gonna watch Roger's videos.

[Vertekins]

I have no problem with Sonic being a braggart because that's what he is.

I have a problem when it consumes him and punts aside other aspects of his personality.

To me, Sonic's a good guy, overall pleasant and heroic. But he's also rough around the edges and has a definite edge to him. SatBK in particular nailed this down to a fine art.

Colours did not.

 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I like Sonic being a little arrogant and cocky, he if wasnt its not him, plus its well deserved. 

[Kuzu]

And that's because Black Knight had different circumstances and allowed the characters to have tension and stakes. What I'm saying is, the current writing doesn't allow for that, but that Pontac and Graff didn't just morph Sonic's character into something else entirely. They probably just saw a basic paragraph about his personality and adapted it to their style of writing (which is something a lot of writers do in all honesty). 

 

Its just their style of writing....sucks.

[Dizcrybe]

I care more about the narrative, characters, writing and cinematics. Always have.

Don't care much at all about gameplay. Now that I think of it, I feel pretty bad for people that do. Yikes.

 

...so... you could care less if the gameplay sucks as long as the story is up to par? Or are you saying you don't care what the gameplay is?

I just- I don't understand this at all. It's a video game. How do you not care about the gameplay? It's the most important part of the game by definition.

[Wraith]

Thing is, Sonic isn't really well balanced in most of the other games either. Most of them just play him as a straight up nice guy which is boring to me. I've actually wanted them to play up his less positive traits more for a while so I'm glad they're actually doing some of that. That and the dialogue being not as cringeworthy to listen to overall means his recent characterization is a definite step up IMO.

[Kuzu]

Thing is, Sonic isn't really well balanced in most of the other games either. Most of them just play him as a straight up nice guy which is boring to me. I've actually wanted them to play up his less positive traits more for a while so I'm glad they're actually doing some of that. That and the dialogue being not as cringeworthy to listen to overall means his recent characterization is a definite step up IMO.

I mean...I never found Sonic boring before tho? I mean, what was so boring about him? The only times I'd say he was really "boring" was Shadow and 06 (:V), games where he's not even the focal character and doesn't play much of a role at all. Otherwise, I've always enjoyed watching Sonic and his personality never seemed that downplayed to me. 

And that's not to say I don't like how he is currently either, I just hate the fact that he doesn't do anything noteworthy anymore....

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kuzu the Boloedge

[Wraith]

???????

If you actually think the 4kids actors were better than the ones we have now, you need to go back and give those games another listen. The only character I'd say who's new voice wasn't a significant improvement is Amy. 

 

Knuckles is supposed to be a smash first, ask questions later, hot-headed brawn over brains type character. His rivalry with Sonic and hard, dirty and serious contrast to the happy, fun and cheeky has always made him a source of comic relief, to be teased and poked. But he  through the Adventure-characterization era he demonstrates a particular sensibility that many might mistake as intelligence ala Eggman or Tails.

Why would Knuckles still be mad at Sonic? When was their rivalry shown to still be a thing? In Sonic Adventure where he only attacked him after a misunderstanding? In Sonic Adventure 2 where the two don't even really conflict with eachother outside of the occasional "Knucklehead" jab from Sonic? Heroes where they all work together without any issues? 

I'm...pretty sure they were on good terms after Sonic 3.

 

 

Sonic is supposed to be stubborn, free soul with a rude and cheeky attitude, and love of justice. The rude and cheeky aspect is taken to the extreme and this is all he is now; arrogant and verbose.

Similarly with Tails; he's smart, innocent and ambitous but the smart aspect is taken to the extreme; he's now a mouthy smart-alec. His child-like innocence, shyness and ambition, gone.

If you think the descriptions still fit, do not be mistaken; the difference between the Adventure-era and the Modern-era is the difference between a multi-dimensional character and a one-dimensional character.

I'd understand what you were saying if Sonic wasn't still consistently going out of his way to do the right thing  and save people in the newer games. He still is, so the whole "justice" thing is still there. Still stubborn as hell too. Nothing about him has really changed. Like Ragna said, he just takes things less seriously now. 

And honestly if Tails had stayed a meek, shy little kid for the entire series without maturing at all I'd be annoyed. He doesn't even have those traits outside of the first Adventure game. After that he's fine acting on his own and can build mechs on par with Eggman. Of course he's not innocent or shy anymore. Why would he be? He's more confident in his abilities than ever and it makes sense for him to be that way.   

 

I mean...I never found Sonic boring before tho? I mean, what was so boring about him? The only times I'd say he was really "boring" was Shadow and 06 (:V), games where he's not even the focal character and doesn't play much of a role at all. Otherwise, I've always enjoyed watching Sonic and his personality never seemed that downplayed to me. 

And that's not to say I don't like how he is currently either, I just hate the fact that he doesn't do anything noteworthy anymore....

 

To me it seemed like as I got older, the more I noticed that Sonic doesn't actually display the cockiness or arrogance he's supposed to have that often, and even on the rare moment that he does, nothing bad really happens because of it. I guess he's kind of got some of these traits in the story book games, but even then Black Knight is mostly about how he's always in the right just through his attitude than anything. Keep charging at Merlina despite all logic telling you not to? Sure. Why not. The idea that Black Knight was this amazing look into Sonic's character is something I never really agreed with because in that game they just kind of reward him for doing what he usually does. If he'd actually stopped to consider doing some things differently maybe I'd understand, but he just sticks to his guns the whole time...and it works. Okay.  Games like Unleashed even imply sonic's heart is oh so pure that he can't even be corrupted by the powers of Dark Gaia, one of the most powerful beings in the world. Lame. Imagine if the Werehog had actually corrupted Sonic and played up his negative traits until he learned to control it more. Wouldn't that have been more interesting?

They don't play with his flaws enough is what I'm saying. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Wraith

[Fake Hedgehog]

 

And that's because Black Knight had different circumstances and allowed the characters to have tension and stakes. What I'm saying is, the current writing doesn't allow for that, but that Pontac and Graff didn't just morph Sonic's character into something else entirely. They probably just saw a basic paragraph about his personality and adapted it to their style of writing (which is something a lot of writers do in all honesty). 

 

Its just their style of writing....sucks.

But you're making the assumption that the characters were written for the environment, while I would assume that the environment was written for the characters. The characters should be constant, the environments varying.

You're also making the assumption that Pontac and Graff were somehow forced to water down the characters and dialogue to suit the story which doesnt make sense to me. The personalities of the characters aren't inherently affected by the adventure they're on. Going from collecting Chaos emeralds and battling evil dopplegangers, to rescuing aliens in a space amusement park doesn't turn a cheeky and laid-back, heroic vigilante of action into a lame, sarcastic and arrogant, self-depreciating loud-mouth. Sonic has had many different writers but his characters remained very solid in personality from Adventure up to Black Knight.

And yeah, this Pontac guy said he "read wikipedia and watched a couple cutscenes".

 

 

 

 

[Amomynous]

I think there IS a fair few games where Sonic's character isn't as strong as it could have been, I'd argue Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, perhaps the odd one or two other, I'm not neccisarily saying he was flat as a board, just not quite living up to Sega's  hype.

I'd still argue that while certain things could do with being emphasised, I still felt a lot stuff kind of came out of nowhere rather than a believable extension of his character and Sonic Lost World chose to bash him for "not listening to Tails" when there's little evidence to suggest this was actually a problem.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Amomynous

[Kuzu]

To me it seemed like as I got older, the more I noticed that Sonic doesn't actually display the cockiness or arrogance he's supposed to have that often, and even on the rare moment that he does, nothing bad really happens because of it. I guess he's kind of got some of these traits in the story book games, but even then Black Knight is mostly about how he's always in the right just through his attitude than anything.  Games like Unleashed even imply sonic's heart is oh so pure that he can't even be corrupted by the powers of Dark Gaia, one of the most powerful beings in the world. Lame.

They don't play with his flaws enough is what I'm saying. 

They technically didn't do this until Lost World if you wanna be anal, and you already know my feelings on that game's execution. But I understand, but let's keep in mind that Sonic is still the main character, so he's...kind of required to be more special than every else by proxy. But I do think he generally suffers enough setbacks to not be considered "perfect"  most of the time, so this is probably why I don't have much an issue with it.

But you're making the assumption that the characters were written for the environment, while I would assume that the environment was written for the characters. The characters should be constant, the environments varying.

You're also making the assumption that Pontac and Graff were somehow forced to water down the characters and dialogue to suit the story which doesnt make sense to me. The personalities of the characters aren't inherently affected by the adventure they're on. Going from collecting Chaos emeralds and battling evil dopplegangers, to rescuing aliens in a space amusement park doesn't turn a cheeky and laid-back, heroic vigilante of action into a lame, sarcastic and arrogant, self-depreciating loud-mouth. Sonic has had many different writers but his characters remained very solid in personality from Adventure up to Black Knight.

And yeah, this Pontac guy said he "read wikipedia and watched a couple cutscenes".

Thing is tho, I really feel like you're exaggerating the degree of the changes; treating it like he's an entirely different character altogether rather than just acknowledging that some traits are more prominent than others. Its not like Sonic is kicking puppies and swearing profanities, that's morphing his character into something different.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kuzu the Boloedge

[Briraka]

I mean...I never found Sonic boring before tho? I mean, what was so boring about him? The only times I'd say he was really "boring" was Shadow and 06 (:V), games where he's not even the focal character and doesn't play much of a role at all. Otherwise, I've always enjoyed watching Sonic and his personality never seemed that downplayed to me. 

And that's not to say I don't like how he is currently either, I just hate the fact that he doesn't do anything noteworthy anymore....

I felt that after 06, the writers took the complaint about Sonic being worthless too close to heart and ended up going in the opposite direction and made him too good. Now don't get me wrong, I feel they did a better job in regards to action and all that compared to what we have now, but a lot of it in Unleashed and Black Knight felt like there wasn't any kind of consequence to how others could see Sonic. Basically, Sonic is the Übermensch, and everyone loves him for it. Fans like to point out how killing King Arthur is a sign of how rebellious and edgy he is, but I doubt anyone outside of the Knights of the Round would care because Arthur was a huge dick. Or how about putting his mission to become a knight at risk by saving the people from a dragon? Nope, it was all a part of the test. Or maybe when after fleeing the castle after Merlina takes the scabbard and the Knights are distraught about how everything they knew was a lie and Sonic basically tells them to get over it? Hey, let's follow the guy who just insulted our feelings.

And then Unleashed has the whole "too good to lose yourself" deal. Even against a natural force of darkness, Sonic's endless determination to be himself still stands strong!

... barf.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Shadowcast