The "What the HECK Is A 2016 Sonic" Prophecy Thread (two topics from the pre-server wipe in one!)

[Junko]

I think Sonic Team has no interrest in past Sega properties. Only Sumo does.

........what are you basing this on exactly? Aside from "Sumo made the ASR games"

[Graystripe2000]

This whole topic is probably going to get out of hand, is it?

[Junko]

This whole topic is probably going to get out of hand, is it?

You haven't been around long enough.

[Xenos]

It could be as ambitious as Unleashed. That is definitely a physical possibility. 

 

However, why in the world would I have faith that such a chance was a realistic possibility when Sonic Team basically dumped everything Unleashed stood for at this point minus the character models and not releasing a game in beta? Unleashed is an anomaly at this point, practically the last example of the shit I liked actually mattering. We've lost high graphical detail, we've lost a world that is engrossing through the use of consistent design and interactivity that makes sense through consistency, we've lost stories that actually asked a little for audience investment without having to constantly be tongue-in-cheek, we've lost gameplay and level ideas that provided a discernible adrenaline rush, we've lost the team's own excitement considering they don't give a damn to market directly to us with interesting material and media anymore. We've literally lost everything that was in Unleashed sans Sonic and "comedy." 

 

So what in the world do you see in the future that an Unleashed fan should be excited about?

 

High graphical detail on the level of Unleashed is the reason we got a game that ran at a beautiful 2 frames per second, I'm not sure why you would expect them to keep something of that level when it was not feasible with that incarnation of Sonic, and also have it run smoothly at the same time. Sonic's world hasn't been consistent since Sonic '06 happened, so there's nothing new there at all, and Unleashed's story wasn't even much of anything aside from the beginning and end of it, and a very small bit of middle between that. The gameplay you're talking about was just in the game before last, and Lost World was pretty much an experimental title, only God knows what they're going to use for this hypothetical game.

 

Generations was also an ambitious title in my personal opinion. Sure it didn't have the scale or grand-feeling of Unleashed, but it was on a more personal level. The game presented you things we've seen before, sure, but it also put a new spin on them, it wanted to invoke the same feelings you may have had before when first experiencing these levels and remembering why they are so famous, or even infamous. It's environments, while not on the level of Unleashed, were beautiful in their own right, thanks to the great art direction with making gottagofastboost corridors look less like corridors by making a full, lush environment, which is something both Generations and Unleashed have in common.

 

To me, Lost World is the outlier, not any of the other main games. Colors may also count, but that's a whole other can of worms I don't really want to get into.

 

I understand if this isn't the direction you've wanted from Sonic, but honestly I think this can work without everyone feeling burnt out.

[Solkia]

Basically, it's not creating new Sonic environments and stories. It's not building upon Sonic's world, and instead just plonks Sonic somewhere else for the sake of nostalgia and referencing. It could be fantastic. But it inevitably means that what we're seeing isn't new. It's very much the same issue that plagued Sonic 4. This is the sort of stuff you'd expect to see once in a blue moon in a game like Generations or in a crossover spin-off like ASR. To form the basis of a new Sonic game after so many years of almost non-existent new content is far too much.

 

Sonic's world? 

 

Sonic doesn't have a world, the devs just make shit up

 

If we were supposed to believe these games are all on the same canon the world would look something like this:

 

 

Let's not start pretending anything about this series is consistent. Gameplay or Canon.

[Clewis]

I'm not really seeing where the validity of this leak is coming from.

Just because that post mentioned Runners doesn't really mean anything in particular, as I've seen several so-called "leaks" on /v/ try to include points from previous posts that claimed to have a bit of insider info as well. This piggybacking method isn't new.

The only thing this leak really has going for it is that Runners did indeed turn out to be a mobile endless runner with f2p elements, but even then I'm a bit skeptical since I remember several people claiming the exact same thing before Runners was properly revealed.

But whatever. If it is true then I guess that says a lot about how scrapped Sega is for cash that they have to resort to selling a remaster of a couple games that came out 4-5 years ago.

[ChikaBoing]

........what are you basing this on exactly? Aside from "Sumo made the ASR games"

 

Well of Sega of Japan in general only likes the IP that made them the dough.

 

And unless the producer is attached we have little cameos (when Naka was around there were PSO cameos, and because of Iizuka there was NiGHTS stuff)

[Blue Blood]

Sonic's world? 

 

Sonic doesn't have a world, the devs just make shit up

 

If we were supposed to believe these games are all on the same canon the world would look something like this:

 

*picture*

 

Let's not start pretending anything about this series is consistent. Gameplay or Canon.

 

Solkia you spent all that time making an image to miss the point. (Though I love your attention to detail 10/10 for Little Planet)

 

If this game is real, then it's further pushing an angle for the franchise that a lot of us don't particularly care for, whereby it's just an entirely irrelevant story stringing together some nostalgic elements without breaking any new ground or trying to be the best it can be. I want a Sonic game that gives me something new to think about, both in terms of the gameplay and story/world. This clearly wouldn't be that. Lost World wasn't even that. Unleashed, for all it's disconnection to the past games, managed it. Heroes too. You can take a little game like Rush and even that created new content. 

 

I don't want another level pack Sonic game. 

[Junko]

Well of Sega of Japan in general only likes the IP that made them the dough.

 

And unless the producer is attached we have little cameos (when Naka was around there were PSO cameos, and because of Iizuka there was NiGHTS stuff)

 

........what are you basing this on exactly?

[Solkia]

 

Solkia you spent all that time making an image to miss the point. (Though I love your attention to detail 10/10 for Little Planet)

 

If this game is real, then it's further pushing an angle for the franchise that a lot of us don't particularly care for, whereby it's just an entirely irrelevant story stringing together some nostalgic elements without breaking any new ground or trying to be the best it can be. I want a Sonic game that gives me something new to think about, both in terms of the gameplay and story/world. This clearly wouldn't be that. Lost World wasn't even that. Unleashed, for all it's disconnection to the past games, managed it. Heroes too. You can take a little game like Rush and even that created new content. 

 

I don't want another level pack Sonic game. 

 

I know what you ment I just wanted an excuse to draw that

[Blue Blood]

I know what you ment I just wanted an excuse to draw that

 

You could have told me that before hand. <3

[ChikaBoing]

 

 

Just look at how many IP Sega has ignored, or even the lack of cameos.

[Junko]

Just look at how many IP Sega has ignored, or even the lack of cameos.

Do all of their franchises need to come back, like what the hell are you getting at

[JezMM]

See idk, I don't get this. 

 

Pretty much like 80% of Sonic games since Adventure have a modern city level so what difference does it make if that level is called Speedy Escape Highway Zone as opposed to Shibuya Cho?

 

Basically this:

 

Basically, it's not creating new Sonic environments and stories. It's not building upon Sonic's world, and instead just plonks Sonic somewhere else for the sake of nostalgia and referencing. It could be fantastic. But it inevitably means that what we're seeing isn't new. It's very much the same issue that plagued Sonic 4. This is the sort of stuff you'd expect to see once in a blue moon in a game like Generations or in a crossover spin-off like ASR. To form the basis of a new Sonic game after so many years of almost non-existent new content is far too much.

 

Yes the Sonic series isn't consistent but it's still a world I've invested in.  Lost World added new content in a poor way but that doesn't mean the next game has to, and as Blue Blood said in his last post, it still adds something new to talk about.  I mean geez even Mario adds new lore with each new game (except maybe 3D Land, that was very much a level pack game despite a bunch of nice touches and some gorgeous backgrounds).

 

 

Are you kidding me? That sounds like a great game! A Mario game where, instead of going through the normal trope worlds, you go through worlds based in games like Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, and more? Sign me right the fuck up. Even more so if it were a 3D Mario game.

 

I'd take it in a heartbeat as DLC for a main Mario game, like Mario Kart 8 did, but for a main series Mario game I want to play a Mario game.  I want new ideas, not ideas from other games reworked into a platformer context.

 

 

Just, yeah it's cool to have those "I REMEMBER THAT" moments when they homage a past game, of course it is.  But I'd much rather be getting new memories that maybe one day in the future could be something that I have an "I REMEMBER THAT" moment about.  Nothing wrong with a game having plenty of both, but a game should never depend on the "I REMEMBER THAT" moments to sell it.  Or at least, you shouldn't make two with only one and a half main series games coming between them.

[Sami]

If they can connect everything in a relatively seamless, fun way (no Mario world maps no Mario world maps no Mario world maps) and keep the player engaged with an interesting story I'm indifferent but yeah I get you.

Like if they just plopped SEGA locales into Sonic's world and let you fly around and visit them in the Tornado in real time (think R&C ACiT or an RPG world map) that's cool with me

[JezMM]

Oh forgot to say I would also personally take a game like this as basically being them giving up on Sonic's world and making a game for people who have already done the same rather than those who still actually care about Sonic.

 

 

Like it's basically admitting in every sense of the word "we've fucked up Sonic, we have no idea what to do with him, so we're pandering to those who have already given up on him by providing fanservice for other games they might've played when they were kids that we haven't continued to produce".  Just geez what a mess.

[Blue Blood]

If they can connect everything in a relatively seamless, fun way (no Mario world maps no Mario world maps no Mario world maps) and keep the player engaged with an interesting story I'm indifferent but yeah I get you.

Like if they just plopped SEGA locales into Sonic's world and let you fly around and visit them in the Tornado in real time (think R&C ACiT or an RPG world map) that's cool with me

 

I would expect something much more along the line of the White World, or even that Lost World map that you love so much. 

 

If they manage something better,  then we'll possibly be venturing into something I can get behind. But with all good reasoning, it's difficult to see that as the case, don't you agree? 

[Celestia]

Just look at how many IP Sega has ignored, or even the lack of cameos.

You know, this reminds me of something I've always wanted to ask regarding SEGA "ignoring IPs".

 

Does SEGA even have that many dev teams these days? Like, I highly doubt they have a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing that they can just turn to and say "oh hey, go make a Jet Set Radio game :)" or whatever. I don't know much about game development and stuff so maybe I'm missing something (possible), or I'm totally wrong (very possible), or whatever, but I highly doubt it's as easy as people make it sound.

[Nepenthe]

High graphical detail on the level of Unleashed is the reason we got a game that ran at a beautiful 2 frames per second, I'm not sure why you would expect them to keep something of that level when it was not feasible with that incarnation of Sonic, and also have it run smoothly at the same time. Sonic's world hasn't been consistent since Sonic '06 happened, so there's nothing new there at all, and Unleashed's story wasn't even much of anything aside from the beginning and end of it, and a very small bit of middle between that. The gameplay you're talking about was just in the game before last, and Lost World was pretty much an experimental title, only God knows what they're going to use for this hypothetical game.

 

Generations was also an ambitious title in my personal opinion. Sure it didn't have the scale or grand-feeling of Unleashed, but it was on a more personal level. The game presented you things we've seen before, sure, but it also put a new spin on them, it wanted to invoke the same feelings you may have had before when first experiencing these levels and remembering why they are so famous, or even infamous. It's environments, while not on the level of Unleashed, were beautiful in their own right, thanks to the great art direction with making gottagofastboost corridors look less like corridors by making a full, lush environment, which is something both Generations and Unleashed have in common.

 

To me, Lost World is the outlier, not any of the other main games. Colors may also count, but that's a whole other can of worms I don't really want to get into.

 

I understand if this isn't the direction you've wanted from Sonic, but honestly I think this can work without everyone feeling burnt out.

 

Bad optimization is why we got a game that chugged in certain places, unless you just think it's completely impossible to have a game with grass that doesn't look like construction paper or smeared baby food that runs properly.

 

And my use of consistent refers to in-game consistency that is established with simple, sensible, and understandable design rules. It's much easier for me to accept a world at face value that places a bottomless pit over a large waterfall and that said waterfall exists in an area reminiscent of Thailand, than it is for me to accept that an alien world has a random-ass area made of candy from Earth floating in the background with no reference for how high up you are or even why or how this place exists (other than the meta concept of "The designers are aping Mario to hell and are trying so hard to appease people who don't care about Sonic"). This is the reason Unleashed's world has worked better at being engrossing than any other game after, and frankly it's something I felt Sonic always utilized before people started equating sheer common sense with "realism" or "bad quality" some shit.

 

Also, the fact that you said it didn't have the scale or the environments of Unleashed just proves my point. I want a game with scale and sensible environments, both because those are more satisfying games to me and because Sega is utterly incompetent at actually making a game that can stand only on mechanical simplicity and be just as satisfying. You can argue that this is a problem, and I think it is too as a long-term outlook, but from a mere theoretical standpoint I've just been happiest with the Sonic games that achieve an action-adventure feeling versus a simplistic platformer one. 

 

I also don't agree that the new spin on the stuff in Generations was anything worth really commending. The things that made those stages and bosses great in their original appearances relied both on timing and context which Generations couldn't give a damn about appreciating or respecting, because the point of Gens was to use nostalgia as a marketing device over an artistic one, which is clearly working in spades given some of the responses we've seen about this issue today.

 

For example, the Egg Dragoon is awesome because it has the foundational context of being the only fight Sonic has with Eggman in his Werehog form. This design choice was deliberate because it allows Sonic to pay Eggman back proper for turning him into the Werehog in the first place, which makes ripping apart his mecha with your bare hands all the more satisfying. Furthermore, it takes place in the Earth's core which not only sets up the way Sonic and Chip reach Dark Gaia, moving the story along in an interactive way, but it adds an extra element to the fight where Eggman utilizes the surroundings to try and send you to your death through breaking the platforms suspended over lava, which get smaller and smaller over time and can actually lead to him winning the fight. 

 

By removing the Werehog and the use of Earth's core as an extra obstacle and staging device for the next part of the game, by saying context like this doesn't matter, that all you have to do is rehash things in a sorta-kinda-similar context or completely remake them and it's literally just as good as the original so long as you don't fall through the floor, you remove the teeth for these stages and boss fights, the reasons they were awesome and actually worked in the first place. It honestly comes across as not understanding the underlying decisions of the game. Generations' Egg Dragoon doesn't invoke any personal payback, nor does it ever really feel like Sonic is at an extreme disadvantage, nor does it advance what little story there is in Gens in an interactive way, so despite one being able to argue that it might be mechanically superior (I don't even feel it has that on it), it still remains the worse incarnation of the boss overall. 

 

And this goes for everything in Gens that was once reinforced by this kind of gameplay-to-narrative design aside from perhaps the classic levels, but then again the ones in Gens are marred by simply being a worse game than the classic games themselves anyway. There is barely anything Gens actually does better overall than the original games themselves. I mean, Seaside Hill is better, I guess?

 

I'm also not sure how Lost World is the outlier. It's basically Colors 2, just replace the Boost with some tacked on Parkour mechanics. Otherwise, every design decision from gameplay to art to storytelling it makes would fit right at home in Colors and in the general continued direction of short, light, generic-platforming games, than it would with Unleashed.

 

Finally, my argument isn't saying this can't work. My argument is that I see no reason why I should suddenly expect Sega to cater to me.

[Sami]

I would expect something much more along the line of the White World, or even that Lost World map that you love so much.

If they manage something better, then we'll possibly be venturing into something I can get behind. But with all good reasoning, it's difficult to see that as the case, don't you agree?

I mean, the last game was about "exploring a mysterious new world" or some shit and it had a story that might as well have been penned by a six year old and has sonic running along a giant string of licorice floating literally in the middle of the sky for absolutely no reason and being completely unphased by that.

Frankly Sonic Team is so inconsistent that I don't bother predicting jack shit anymore, I just take whatever they say at face value, apply that mentally to the kind of game I want, and stop giving a shit when the info we get doesn't match that remotely.

[ChikaBoing]

You know, this reminds me of something I've always wanted to ask regarding SEGA "ignoring IPs".

 

Does SEGA even have that many dev teams these days? Like, I highly doubt they have a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing that they can just turn to and say "oh hey, go make a Jet Set Radio game :)" or whatever. I don't know much about game development and stuff so maybe I'm missing something (possible), or I'm totally wrong (very possible), or whatever, but I highly doubt it's as easy as people make it sound.

 

They have about six R&D divisions all pretty much focused on the japanese market (which also includes arcade and of course mobile)

 

I wonder how it must be for Sonic Team, to be one the only division to make global products.

[Solkia]

You know, this reminds me of something I've always wanted to ask regarding SEGA "ignoring IPs".

 

Does SEGA even have that many dev teams these days? Like, I highly doubt they have a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing that they can just turn to and say "oh hey, go make a Jet Set Radio game :)" or whatever. I don't know much about game development and stuff so maybe I'm missing something (possible), or I'm totally wrong (very possible), or whatever, but I highly doubt it's as easy as people make it sound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsourcing

[Hero of Legend]

I'd totally be down for a WIi U exclusive "Gens and Colors port" or whatever it is. Gens as I said in my article was sorely missing from Nintendo's home consoles, I've constantly thought it's never too late to finally bring it over. And some kind of extention of it is even better.

 

But yeah, how would you mix Colors and Gens together like that? A 2-Pack? Like Puzzle & Dragonz Z + P&D Super Mario Bros. Edition?

 

I've also thought that the game Straight Right is porting from PS360 to Wii U could indeed be Gens (just a hope but also lines up with the earlier reports of it being for a top tier publisher, not M-rated and thus under the Tantalus brand, and from PS360), not many biggies to go with other than that.

 

Maybe Nintendo's conference will show something, I hope so anyway.

[Blue Blood]

I'd totally be down for a WIi U exclusive "Gens and Colors port" or whatever it is. Gens as I said in my article was sorely missing from Nintendo's home consoles, I've constantly thought it's never too late to finally bring it over. And some kind of extention of it is even better.

 

But yeah, how would you mix Colors and Gens together like that? A 2-Pack? Like Puzzle & Dragonz Z + P&D Super Mario Bros. Edition?

 

I've also thought that the game Straight Right is porting from PS360 to Wii U could indeed be Gens (just a hope but also lines up with the earlier reports of it being for a top tier publisher, not M-rated and thus under the Tantalus brand, and from PS360), not many biggies to go with other than that.

 

Maybe Nintendo's conference will show something, I hope so anyway.

 

I've just read up on the project you're talking about, and not to intentionally play the pessimist card, but it doesn't sound like it's related to SEGA or Sonic at all. Apparently "the project in question was a port/rework of a game “for an absolute top notch publisher." and “the biggest thing [they've] ever done”. I could dig Generations Wii U, but this probably isn't it. Unless it really is Colours and Generations combined into a single title, which would be huge but also sounds unfathomable.

[Penny]

I've just read up on the project you're talking about, and not to intentionally play the pessimist card, but it doesn't sound like it's related to SEGA or Sonic at all. Apparently "the project in question was a port/rework of a game “for an absolute top notch publisher." and “the biggest thing [they've] ever done”. I could dig Generations Wii U, but it doesn't sound like a SEGA title at all, sadly.

 

are you saying that SEGA isn't a top notch publisher and that Sonic Generations isn't the biggest SEGA game ever made? how dare you. like come on, SEGA is extremely top notch. they've published such classics as Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 06, and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric. Generations is their crown jewel. S3&K? hot garbage.

 

jeez, some people smh